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 Iron_Captain wrote:

Voss wrote:

 Geifer wrote:

 HorticulusDK wrote:

Spoiler:

 Geifer wrote:

 Thargrim wrote:

Ben2 wrote:

 Thargrim wrote:

 Hive City Dweller wrote:
Not to sideline the discussion too much, but are there any solid rumors about Goblin/Grot releases in AoS?

I know it's been talked about, and we have several rumor engine pics that look like spore clouds, squigs and goblin blades, but search as I much I can't find if any reliable sources have confirmed that army.

If there are any grots coming they will probably be moonclan, as they would have been designed alongside the malign portents character. I had heard rumors about them coming in the fall, but it sounded almost like wishlisting to me, so i'll believe it when I see it for now.

The malign portents characters are reflective of the redo of the faction they represent. Darkoath and Moonclan are to come, Nighthaunt and Ordinatus we are seeing in the new set.

If thats the case I hope they find a way to make Darkoath more unique. Cause they kind of feel like khorne barbarians without the khorne aspect...so no theme really beyond barbarian....which is kinda eh. If the moonclan character is any indication I expect them to dial up the fungus mutations and wacky aspect of the grots to a significant degree. A lot of the newer factions seem to be taking a theme and turning it up to the extreme.

I'd happily take "no theme beyond barbarian". GW could use a couple of ranges that act as the baseline. But that's me.

I'd expect the goblins to go the same route as Daughters of Khaine. We have the extreme of the theme on the character, but fairly basic Night Goblins (that I don't expect to get replaced). Any new units will fall somewhere in the middle to bridge the gap. Not as much shark jumping as Idoneth.

But yeah, I really, really hope the harbingers are the, well, harbingers for their factions as the rumors make out. All I want is a mixed gender Darkoath box. So much I could use that for.

Well I would LOVE Darkoath but I fear they'll be 2019 and that we'll get Slaanesh first (okay, it's great too).

One of the Moonclan rumors is that there will be full new "baseline" Grots (there is one artwork in Malign Portents of Moonclan Grots with their hoods down).

I won't say no to new Slaanesh models either. The more and the sooner, the better.

That seems unavoidable to me. Aside from the daemonettes (including mounts) and chariots, slaanesh basically has nothing , except those really terrible mortal riders based on the old marauders. That doesn't fly.

I'd expect fiends, keeper and themed mortal cultists at minimum. Slaangors too, hopefully. But the mortal units seem necessary to bring them in line with the disciples and bloody blood blooders. Wouldn't say no to a new daemon variety (or two) either. We're well past the days when greater, lesser, beast and mount was acceptable.

Khorne and Nurgle also didn't get any new daemon varieties, so I would not expect anything for Slaanesh either (Khorne did not even get a beast actually). Tzeentch is the only one with multiple daemons (three varieties of horror, flamers and screamers). For a Slaanesh release I think they will just update the Greater Daemon and beast sculpt, probably some (new) characters as well. It think the release would be mostly focusing on mortal followers rather than daemons, in line with Khorne and Nurgle.

Eh. As a point of reference, the other Daemon lines have gotten a lot over the years, particularly Nurgle. The flies aren't that old and not trapped in old Realm of Chaos cycle Slaanesh is still stuck with. Plus he's got both his old beasties and a pile of plastic heroes at this point. Plus the putrid blight kings and their variants. And even more nurglish daemon looking things seem to be coming in the rogue trader box.

Grante, Khorne only got the cannon and throne, but that is a fairly big change (ranged artillery!), especially alongside bloodcrushers and the full mortal faction that was half the first year of AoS releases ). Sadly they never broke the flesh hound out of the shadespire box, but they can clearly do so whenever they like with some variations.

Tzeentch pretty much ran riot with the full combined faction treatment, and ended up with a second beast and a third lesser form as well, plus a couple options for heroes on top.

That's what I'm comparing the daemonettes, steeds (which are basically just daemonettes but 'even more faster') and chariots to. A real Slaanesh faction needs to be much more than just a Keeper and some stuff. They're basically functioning like its still 1989, regardless of Voltron the lawn mower chariot.

 EnTyme wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:

NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:

 rayphoton wrote:
The general scuttle is that starter is gonna be 160 and the magic addition is gonna be 80. USD...

$80 is pretty pricey for an expansion they seem pretty interested in making a core component of the new edition. I naively hoped it would be a loss-leader product that they ate some margin on in exchange for getting all/most players to pick one up. $50 was what I was hoping for.

I think it's worth mentioning that if it includes every single one of the Endless Spells that are in the book, comparing them to the price of the Balewind Vortex solo($15)---it does come close to a loss leader in terms of pricing. Going off a price of $15, it comes out to $195 for just the Endless Spells.

I'd also look at it in terms of this being something that might be considered a "gaming group" purchase rather than every player must own it.

That's not a very good value comparison. The endless spells vary wildly in size and complexity. Some look to be only one piece, others could be 4+ pieces. My guess is probably two large sprues.

It's as good of a value comparison as you're going to get sadly. The Magewrath Throne, the Balewind Vortex, and all the other Arcane Fulcrums were priced out individually at $15.

And what I'm saying is that both of those were significantly large than any individual spell, so saying each spell is worth the same as those isn't anywhere close to accurate.

 EnTyme wrote:
And what I'm saying is that both of those were significantly large than any individual spell, so saying each spell is worth the same as those isn't anywhere close to accurate.

They're not as large as you might think, and I think you're underestimating the size of the Endless Spells as well.

The Jaws and Sun look to be on Onager sized bases, Gravetide and Palisade look to not have a 'base' but rather they have part of them flattened to serve as a kind of base, Pendulum and Emerald Swarm look to be on 60x35mm ovals, and the rest look to be on 32mm or 40mm bases.

I don't think GW's 'cost' for the spells box is...much. At all.

So while they might (or might not!) be a good 'value' for us, I'm sure GW will make out OK on the deal too!

 Kanluwen wrote:

 EnTyme wrote:
And what I'm saying is that both of those were significantly large than any individual spell, so saying each spell is worth the same as those isn't anywhere close to accurate.

They're not as large as you might think, and I think you're underestimating the size of the Endless Spells as well.

The Jaws and Sun look to be on Onager sized bases, Gravetide and Palisade look to not have a 'base' but rather they have part of them flattened to serve as a kind of base, Pendulum and Emerald Swarm look to be on 60x35mm ovals, and the rest look to be on 32mm or 40mm bases.

I own a Balewind Vortex, and I've used the throne at my FLGS. You can look at the bases the Endless Spells are on and estimate the size pretty closely. From what I can tell, these will fit on 2-3 large sprues, so the kit is roughly the size of most terrain kits. In either case, there is no way anyone is going to look at these models and say the kit is worth the price of Imperial Knight: Renegade even counting the spell cards and book.

Here's a pic that gives a pretty good size comparison of Ravenak's Gnashing Jaws to the Balewind Vortex.

 EnTyme wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

 EnTyme wrote:
And what I'm saying is that both of those were significantly large than any individual spell, so saying each spell is worth the same as those isn't anywhere close to accurate.

They're not as large as you might think, and I think you're underestimating the size of the Endless Spells as well.

The Jaws and Sun look to be on Onager sized bases, Gravetide and Palisade look to not have a 'base' but rather they have part of them flattened to serve as a kind of base, Pendulum and Emerald Swarm look to be on 60x35mm ovals, and the rest look to be on 32mm or 40mm bases.

I own a Balewind Vortex, and I've used the throne at my FLGS. You can look at the bases the Endless Spells are on and estimate the size pretty closely. From what I can tell, these will fit on 2-3 large sprues, so the kit is roughly the size of most terrain kits. In either case, there is no way anyone is going to look at these models and say the kit is worth the price of Imperial Knight: Renegade even counting the spell cards and book.

Luckily neither does GW, but pretty much anything would look like a very bad value proposition next to Renegade anyway.

I LIKE the Hellstriders. Lol. I’m hoping we’ll also get our first named Daemon PRINCE (not greater Daemon) in the form of Azazel, since he has a pre-existing history/hatred with sigmar from the old world. GW seems to be in a nostalgic mood for old characters lately, so fingers crossed!

 Mymearan wrote:

Luckily neither does GW, but pretty much anything would look like a very bad value proposition next to Renegade anyway.

Oh, I think the Endless Spells look like a great value, I just don't get why Kan wants to base that value on multiplying the number of (wildly varying) models in the kit by the value of two other models that are only comparable in size to probably 3-4 of the models in the actual kit. My point is that the comparison doesn't make sense to me.

 EnTyme wrote:

 Mymearan wrote:

Luckily neither does GW, but pretty much anything would look like a very bad value proposition next to Renegade anyway.

Oh, I think the Endless Spells look like a great value, I just don't get why Kan wants to base that value on multiplying the number of (wildly varying) models in the kit by the value of two other models that are only comparable in size to probably 3-4 of the models in the actual kit. My point is that the comparison doesn't make sense to me.

The rumored price point for the Malign Sorcery kit is $80.
I based the price I used for the multiplication for off of the specific price point that GW seemingly feels comfortable at selling an Endless Spell at, using the Balewind Vortex as the guidepost. They feel that the Balewind Vortex is worth the same as the Magewrath Throne or the other two items that they used to sell at $15.

We're seeing them do weird things with terrain--did you imagine the Webway Portal would be $40? The new Knight piece? The Shipwreck? That seems to be what they're considering these Endless Spells to be.

So yeah, pardon me for trying to make an educated guess as to the pricing.

I don't know what to think about the Endless Spells. Yeah, they look cool, but even more ways to create mortal wounds... meh.

 Galas wrote:
I don't know what to think about the Endless Spells. Yeah, they look cool, but even more ways to create mortal wounds... meh.

The spells do a lot more than just damage. One blocks ranged attacks, One heals models, the mirrors basically change the point a spell is being cast from, etc. I think the entire concept is really cool, and I can't wait to try them out! I'll be preordering the spells, rulebook, and GHB for sure!

Also, spells were dishing out mortal wounds anyways and I think its more about giving access to non-battletome/non-lore armies. Tzeentch will probably still deal a ton more using their own lores.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 EnTyme wrote:

 Mymearan wrote:

Luckily neither does GW, but pretty much anything would look like a very bad value proposition next to Renegade anyway.

Oh, I think the Endless Spells look like a great value, I just don't get why Kan wants to base that value on multiplying the number of (wildly varying) models in the kit by the value of two other models that are only comparable in size to probably 3-4 of the models in the actual kit. My point is that the comparison doesn't make sense to me.

The rumored price point for the Malign Sorcery kit is $80.
I based the price I used for the multiplication for off of the specific price point that GW seemingly feels comfortable at selling an Endless Spell at, using the Balewind Vortex as the guidepost. They feel that the Balewind Vortex is worth the same as the Magewrath Throne or the other two items that they used to sell at $15.

We're seeing them do weird things with terrain--did you imagine the Webway Portal would be $40? The new Knight piece? The Shipwreck? That seems to be what they're considering these Endless Spells to be.

So yeah, pardon me for trying to make an educated guess as to the pricing.

I think the $80 rumor is probably pretty accurate (and a good value). I disagree with your assessment that GW is selling a $195 kit for $80. They are selling an $80 kit for $80. Saying that each spell model is worth the same as a Balewind Vortex because they're both Endless Spells is like saying a Grot Shaman is worth the same as a Megaboss because they're both Heroes. The kits are vastly different.

The endless spells look a hell of a lot better and have a hell of a lot more detail than those terrain kits. As for me I was expecting $75 for just the spells & their warscrolls so I'm happy. It seems a fair price point to me.

Glad to see the Ogres marching into the updated rules of the future... just wish I still had my army of them to keep me company.
Bar none my favorite army in terms of customization and modularity. If kits are repacked at an attractive price, I may have to start up again... maybe with normal flesh colors this time even.


In my eyes, a Slaaneshi mortal army should look like a cross between Kingdom Death figures and over designed MMORPG characters. Excessive and decadent armor, fabulous (and tainted) looking mortals of questionable gender... or at least the elite units can be like that.

Let the unwashed masses be the typical grimdark hobos

So after getting around to the AoS podcasts, I have to say I am really not concerned with free summoning anymore. They seem to be very concious about making sure summoning was not overpowered which makes me feel that the potential exploitive elements we see now will be errata'd at or after 2nd ed launch.

Also if I wasn't excited for the narrative angle before I would be after hearing them talk about it.

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
So after getting around to the AoS podcasts, I have to say I am really not concerned with free summoning anymore. They seem to be very concious about making sure summoning was not overpowered which makes me feel that the potential exploitive elements we see now will be errata'd at or after 2nd ed launch.

Also if I wasn't excited for the narrative angle before I would be after hearing them talk about it.

Yeah, watching those I also felt a little less worried about the summoning things, as it seems like they actually really looked at that stuff instead of just going all Oprah and giving everybody free daemons.

And I'm super excited about the narrative stuff, actually. We usually play Matched Play, but my group isn't full of tryhards, and we do stuff for more fun than anything, and the Endless Spells are gonna be a right blast, I think.

You fellas care to say how free summoning will work (and why you think its gonna be okay) based on those podcasts? Your insight is much appreciated.

Before points came in to AoS, the only thing I was ever worried about was summoning. Our cheesiest 40k demon player brought his army and tried out AoS. He summoned a bunch of stuff and crushed me only to say that it was a broken thing to be able to do.

 privateer4hire wrote:
You fellas care to say how free summoning will work (and why you think its gonna be okay) based on those podcasts? Your insight is much appreciated.

Before points came in to AoS, the only thing I was ever worried about was summoning. Our cheesiest 40k demon player brought his army and tried out AoS. He summoned a bunch of stuff and crushed me only to say that it was a broken thing to be able to do.

Many armies have an opportunity cost to do summoning. Most armies' summoning will be able to be limited or prevented by the other player. Some of the most feared excesses like the flesh Eater units growing beyond starting size have been curbed.
On top of that points will be adjusted somewhat to account for the power that summoning provides.

It seems likely that summoning armies will start with slightly smaller armies than non summoning armies, with the potential to get quite a bit larger as the game progresses.
It should make for interesting games.

 privateer4hire wrote:
You fellas care to say how free summoning will work (and why you think its gonna be okay) based on those podcasts? Your insight is much appreciated.

Before points came in to AoS, the only thing I was ever worried about was summoning. Our cheesiest 40k demon player brought his army and tried out AoS. He summoned a bunch of stuff and crushed me only to say that it was a broken thing to be able to do.

Rather than being flat spells each army will have a summoning mechanic in their allegiance, something we've already seen previewed. What alleviated my concern was that when talking about these they went out of their way to mention how it was important not to make summoning too easy such that it was overpowered. There are several points already in existence where I see free summoning as problematic (it's really not difficult to plop down an Exalted GUO on round 4 for example, which even that late in the game has no business being free) but since GW is very obviously aware of summoning as a potential problem it gives me confidence they will address those exploits, or are at least likely to.

For Tzeentch they said that they will get a point for every spell that casts and is not unbound--from either side. These points are then spent to summon with a LoC costing 36. Blood tithe for Khorne will go from the current '8 summons anything' to a specific chart that says how much each thing costs in tithe to summon, with a Bloodthirster eing 16.

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
So after getting around to the AoS podcasts, I have to say I am really not concerned with free summoning anymore. They seem to be very concious about making sure summoning was not overpowered which makes me feel that the potential exploitive elements we see now will be errata'd at or after 2nd ed launch.

Also if I wasn't excited for the narrative angle before I would be after hearing them talk about it.

Speaking of erratas, AoS is due for one of their big twice-a-year FAQs in July. I wonder if it will be late like the 40K FAQ was (p.s., I asked this question on the Age of Sigmar Facebook page, so let's see if I get an answer).

I imagine it will include a 'week after' FAQ on the new rulebook too. Let use know if they respond!

 Ghaz wrote:

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
So after getting around to the AoS podcasts, I have to say I am really not concerned with free summoning anymore. They seem to be very concious about making sure summoning was not overpowered which makes me feel that the potential exploitive elements we see now will be errata'd at or after 2nd ed launch.

Also if I wasn't excited for the narrative angle before I would be after hearing them talk about it.

Speaking of erratas, AoS is due for one of their big twice-a-year FAQs in July. I wonder if it will be late like the 40K FAQ was (p.s., I asked this question on the Age of Sigmar Facebook page, so let's see if I get an answer).

Is it wrong that I hope the Idoneth will get errataed to have the Ritual of Rousing be able to summon an Eidolon OR heal/buff one?

I mean, look at the Warscroll for the thing. Read the product info. It even says they're "summoned" into being.

Not sure if anyone has posted this yet. The article talks about souls, I recall there was a topic about this in the general AOS section.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2018/06/07/7th-june-the-war-for-soulsgw-homepage-post-2/

I think this is the most interesting part.


Nagash, as self-appointed God of Death and Grand Necromancer, lays eventual claim to every single soul in the Mortal Realms as his by right – an arrangement that, during the Age of Myth, was agreed upon by the other gods in Sigmar’s pantheon.

I'm with Nagash on this one. If the whole bargain was for him to help vs Chaos, taking souls away from him permanently seems like a back-stabby move.

Chikout wrote:

 privateer4hire wrote:
You fellas care to say how free summoning will work (and why you think its gonna be okay) based on those podcasts? Your insight is much appreciated.

Before points came in to AoS, the only thing I was ever worried about was summoning. Our cheesiest 40k demon player brought his army and tried out AoS. He summoned a bunch of stuff and crushed me only to say that it was a broken thing to be able to do.

Many armies have an opportunity cost to do summoning. Most armies' summoning will be able to be limited or prevented by the other player. Some of the most feared excesses like the flesh Eater units growing beyond starting size have been curbed.
On top of that points will be adjusted somewhat to account for the power that summoning provides.

It seems likely that summoning armies will start with slightly smaller armies than non summoning armies, with the potential to get quite a bit larger as the game progresses.
It should make for interesting games.

Mostly seems frustrating to me 'play the mission, but also play this minigame or my army gets twice as big as yours'

 shinros wrote:
Not sure if anyone has posted this yet. The article talks about souls, I recall there was a topic about this in the general AOS section.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2018/06/07/7th-june-the-war-for-soulsgw-homepage-post-2/

I think this is the most interesting part.


Nagash, as self-appointed God of Death and Grand Necromancer, lays eventual claim to every single soul in the Mortal Realms as his by right – an arrangement that, during the Age of Myth, was agreed upon by the other gods in Sigmar’s pantheon.

That's actually old lore. But interesting, definitely. Nagash is not the evil bad guy he seems.

ERJAK wrote:

Chikout wrote:

 privateer4hire wrote:
You fellas care to say how free summoning will work (and why you think its gonna be okay) based on those podcasts? Your insight is much appreciated.

Before points came in to AoS, the only thing I was ever worried about was summoning. Our cheesiest 40k demon player brought his army and tried out AoS. He summoned a bunch of stuff and crushed me only to say that it was a broken thing to be able to do.

Many armies have an opportunity cost to do summoning. Most armies' summoning will be able to be limited or prevented by the other player. Some of the most feared excesses like the flesh Eater units growing beyond starting size have been curbed.
On top of that points will be adjusted somewhat to account for the power that summoning provides.

It seems likely that summoning armies will start with slightly smaller armies than non summoning armies, with the potential to get quite a bit larger as the game progresses.
It should make for interesting games.

Mostly seems frustrating to me 'play the mission, but also play this minigame or my army gets twice as big as yours'

It's just resource management. If I recall, some people actually like resource management mechanics in games, they find them fun.

I for one like how it's looking, and would really like more info on the Seraphon mechanic. As of now, we only have the core of it, and not the whole list of possible summons. It is looking very tool-box like, something very useful for an army with lots of units.