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 NinthMusketeer wrote:
I just want to see them do it like 40k where the terrain costs points to put on the table. Let people bring all that cool dreadhold stuff. I remember back in fan comp days when that was a thing and it was great. The move to make terrain a free part of every allegiance ensures sales of that piece, but only one set of it and only to players of that allegiance. Some generic kits that anyone could bring, and/or the ability to bring multiples by paying extra points, that could drive sales just as well while expanding what's available in the game. I know I'd shell out for some more Nurgle trees and expand my dreadhold collection.


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 Overread wrote:
Which goes to show a weapon team kit can be really simple!

That said those flamers in plastic are not going to be cheap/easy to get hold of right now. Probably going to cost more than the £8 or so that the weapon team costs from GW direct.

Doesn't help that the wft is the only team worth it's points, and all the teams pale in comparison to a stormfiend unit. Seriously... 3 weapon teams costs only slight less than 3 stormfiends.

That's the biggest issue.
3 teams for around fiend cost, yet nowhere near the survivability of them and fiends are battle line in a skryre army to boot.
Even with the nerf (weapon selection) fiends are still pretty damn good.

Weapon teams sadly lack alot.
Would have liked a LoS type rule for them to atleast help a bit, or have them hidden in the way fanatics are even.
I wouldn't mind a WFT hiding in a clanrat unit ready to jump out and ignite a unit.

I just think for their cost, they really offer very little, which is sad because jezzails are now a good option, yet weapon teams got left behind.

Jackal90 wrote:
Weapon teams sadly lack alot.
Would have liked a LoS type rule for them to atleast help a bit, or have them hidden in the way fanatics are even.
I wouldn't mind a WFT hiding in a clanrat unit ready to jump out and ignite a unit.

I just think for their cost, they really offer very little, which is sad because jezzails are now a good option, yet weapon teams got left behind.

Let us turn back the sands of time, to March 2002. Skaven are released for WHFB 6E, and become fairly reviled in short time, thanks in no small part to weapon teams being both extremely powerful and untargetable when near friendly units, of which Skaven have plenty of. There is much lamentation and nashing of teeth among the armies of the upper world, with Alessio Cavatore's name taken in vain hither and yon (for he, a known Skaven player, had clearly been allowed to write himself an armybook of murderous proportions).



Meanwhile, somewhere at Games Workshop a note is made: 'weapon taems too stronk, please nerf'

This note is never taken down, and indeed every edition that followed diminished their majesty further

 Boss Salvage wrote:

Jackal90 wrote:
Weapon teams sadly lack alot.
Would have liked a LoS type rule for them to atleast help a bit, or have them hidden in the way fanatics are even.
I wouldn't mind a WFT hiding in a clanrat unit ready to jump out and ignite a unit.

I just think for their cost, they really offer very little, which is sad because jezzails are now a good option, yet weapon teams got left behind.

Let us turn back the sands of time, to March 2002. Skaven are released for WHFB 6E, and become fairly reviled in short time, thanks in no small part to weapon teams being both extremely powerful and untargetable when near friendly units, of which Skaven have plenty of. There is much lamentation and nashing of teeth among the armies of the upper world, with Alessio Cavatore's name taken in vain hither and yon (for he, a known Skaven player, had clearly been allowed to write himself an armybook of murderous proportions).



Meanwhile, somewhere at Games Workshop a note is made: 'weapon taems too stronk, please nerf'

This note is never taken down, and indeed every edition that followed diminished their majesty further

Just to clarify before someone stabs me, I wasn't talking about alessio levels of ninja BS lol.
Maybe a 4+ if they are within 6" of 10+ vermintide models.

They just need something, even if it's niche.
Otherwise, if you want weapon teams just take fiends instead.

Durability - fiends.
Points - fiends.
Price - fiends.
Damage - fiends.

£25 for 3 on eBay currently, £10 below retail.
I'd say any skryre players need to jump on eBay now. Doomwheels and WL cannons are only £14 too.
Always good to stock up!

WTF, how is Carrion Empire sold out? I was planning on getting that and shadow spear shipped together and now they say they can't get Carrion empire.

Does anyone know if that is temporary or like Kill team box set permenantly gone?

angel of death 007 wrote:
WTF, how is Carrion Empire sold out?

News is so old I should report you for being off topic!

But seriously it sold out in days.

Carrion Empire sold out and its not getting a reprint. Personally I think its reflects GW making these duel army boxes cycle faster rather than slower. Having the Tomes released on the same day meant a big surging increase in attention because you got new models and to use them in an updated army - as opposed to many previous boxes where there were months beteween the boxed set and the Battletomes which stunts interest (people are interested to buy but wind up holding off till the Tome comes out).

I think that's why Carrion Empire sold out so fast, and GW might have produced less we don't know. Though there are still boxes lurking around - 3rd party shops a local GW store and ebay full and split are still about so there's still stuff out there if you can do a bit of hunting for it. But yeah it will dry up fast - FEC players bsically get their whole army in a single box barring their dragon model; whilst Skaven get a very solid core of all popular models.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2019/03/08/mar-8-trade-and-currency-in-the-mortal-reamsgw-homepage-post-4/

This article is at the same time, ultra random, but also very cool, that they are talking about this.

It goes very well with the Battletome: Farmers of the Mortal Realms.

And the two books they suggest at the end of the article are actually the best realms to make of AoS a "grounded" universe.

 Galas wrote:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2019/03/08/mar-8-trade-and-currency-in-the-mortal-reamsgw-homepage-post-4/

This article is at the same time, ultra random, but also very cool, that they are talking about this.

It goes very well with the Battletome: Farmers of the Mortal Realms.

And the two books they suggest at the end of the article are actually the best realms to make of AoS a "grounded" universe.

This also ties in with a teaser pic I'd say.
We had a pic of a gold pile with various treasures thrown in.

I love their little fluff articles and hope they keep doing them.

I'd say the article ties the Fyreslayers into that rumor engine from the other day. I bet we are getting some kind of spell or scenery piece for Fyreslayers where they horde the gold whether it be urgold or non urgold.

Man I really hope they do not carry on with every faction getting a mandatory terrain piece. Make them optional rather than something just shoved on us! It is cool when some factions have it, it is lame when a standard part of deployment in AoS is putting down your terrain piece because every faction has one for free. At least they are pretty cool kits.

I do remain happy to see every faction getting endless spells or equivalents. The recent endless spells are well designed too; fun, thematic, and while most deal MWs in some manner only a handful of the newer ones can really be called simple damage-dealers. I am really enjoying the Skaven ones for their tactical use.

What do we think Fyreslayer 'endless runes' will be called? We already know that Khorne's are called "Judgements of Khorne".

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
Man I really hope they do not carry on with every faction getting a mandatory terrain piece. Make them optional rather than something just shoved on us! It is cool when some factions have it, it is lame when a standard part of deployment in AoS is putting down your terrain piece because every faction has one for free. At least they are pretty cool kits.

I would expect they become mandatory with every new battletome, because it's obvious they sell way more that way. Sure, that means you have to take your terrains with you to play and have to free more space in your bag/boxes when you carry that army with you.

On the other hand, it has an unexpected upside for tournaments - since more and more armies come with their "free" terrains, organizers will naturally tend to take that into account and make sure the tables are less crowded with terrain, so that each player can place their own.

It also means that players are encouraged to take terrains with them and populate the tables, meaning the organizers will need less terrains than before. That's quite interesting for tournament logistics, IMHO.

What do we think Fyreslayer 'endless runes' will be called? We already know that Khorne's are called "Judgements of Khorne".

Grimnir's Runes, or something like that I guess. Maybe instead of the equivalent of endless spells, it would be used as a replacement for the current runes you can use once per game as their core rules - maybe a bit different.

GW is going to power ahead with faciton terrain for 40K and AoS because it sells terrain better than anything else GW has tried. The best they can hope for is that it also sparks more sales of other support terrain by gamers and that in turn results in increased overall terrain use and sales direct from GW.

That in turn might make them ease back (eg terrain starts to get points); but it might be something they keep. Along with Endless spells its another tool in the box that improves the visual experience of the game which many of the competing games on the market don't do.

This is GW giving AoS a unique identity for itself in a very visual sense and it also helps improve tables - better tales means more chance of luring in more gamers.

It's a fair bit better than including battalions for armies based on very specific terrain pieces being on a board, but still a pain to have to bring all the terrain along with all the models.

You new armies and your one or two piece of solid terrain... Pft! Try playing Sylvaneth and needing to bring a dozen woods!

I think faction terrain is awesome! GW needs to make more fantasy terrain other than castles/towers. If you don't like the army terrain, don't use it. Nobody says you have to take one, but if you do they are free.

GW needs to make more Terrain for AoS that is not ruined. I would like to see more architecture from the Mortal realms that isn't destroyed.

I feel there's quite a population of players that'd like a solid LoS* blocking terrain.

*percentage of it might vary.

If Warcry ends up being what most people hope it is I'd expect some more terrain pieces. WHFB was close to Warmachine level terrain from my experience so it's not a surprise that AoS initially struggled to get people to fill up their boards a bit more.

I like the kits, I just do not like them being mandatory. 40k style where they cost points and you can bring however much you like? I'd be all over that. Doubly so if they add dreadhold to that.


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Smellingsalts wrote:
I think faction terrain is awesome! GW needs to make more fantasy terrain other than castles/towers. If you don't like the army terrain, don't use it. Nobody says you have to take one, but if you do they are free.

Similarly, one can bring a shooting unit and not use its missile weapons. Or bring a wizard and not cast his spells.

Whilst the terrain is free its hard to not use it. Sure you can have gnawholes or the new throne and not use them, but you're sort of leaving really powerful and useful features on the table without much reason to do so. As Ninth says its a bit like bringing ranged units and not using their ranged attacks - you can do that but its not really very sensible.

Putting a cost on to the terrain makes you have to pick and choose it around your army intentionally; so its not there for just casual use.

Most of the terrain is pretty easy to kitbash or scratch build though. So long as you make things the correct size it shouldn’t be a problem. It is also not true that every army gets them. Of the 7 battletomes released last year only 3 got terrain.

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
I like the kits, I just do not like them being mandatory. 40k style where they cost points and you can bring however much you like? I'd be all over that. Doubly so if they add dreadhold to that.


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Smellingsalts wrote:
I think faction terrain is awesome! GW needs to make more fantasy terrain other than castles/towers. If you don't like the army terrain, don't use it. Nobody says you have to take one, but if you do they are free.

Similarly, one can bring a shooting unit and not use its missile weapons. Or bring a wizard and not cast his spells.

Agreed. I never liked "free mandatory rules" that come in the form of additional kits that you have to buy. If Terrain will be free and mandatory then sell me it with the Battletome. Or add a point price to it, then I can choose to use it or not.

Chikout wrote:
Most of the terrain is pretty easy to kitbash or scratch build though. So long as you make things the correct size it shouldn’t be a problem. It is also not true that every army gets them. Of the 7 battletomes released last year only 3 got terrain.

Yes but of all the battletomes released this year (and announced to be released) all have gotten a unique bit of terrain. The only ones that have not (thus far that we are aware of) are the two mini-codex in the new 40K boxed set. And there is still a chance GW has more for them to come. The terrain is a new thing that they are clearly focusing on this year as part of a rollout. The same way that all the new and udpated battletomes for AoS are getting Endless Spells.

Terrain can be made at home and its for this reason that GW is trying to shift terrain from a home made feature into an army feature - they want you to buy terrain from them not just make it at home or use the store/club terrain.

I hope Tzeentch simply gets a Baleful Realmgate. Would at least make the Gaunt Summoner fair.

 plastictrees wrote:
If Warcry ends up being what most people hope it is I'd expect some more terrain pieces. WHFB was close to Warmachine level terrain from my experience so it's not a surprise that AoS initially struggled to get people to fill up their boards a bit more.

Terrain was always considered a unecesary hinderence in the WFB games I watched / played in, especially with competative and torunament gamers I encountered. I like terrain - when the rules matter.

They could have done much more with it and made it part of the game but apart from Wood Elves they never seemed to be that interested.

 Overread wrote:
Terrain can be made at home and its for this reason that GW is trying to shift terrain from a home made feature into an army feature - they want you to buy terrain from them not just make it at home or use the store/club terrain.

Well, I mean they do, but I also think they've realized that terrain is the last big part of the Warhammer experience that they aren't selling to players. Part of what sells Warhammer is seeing a game table with all the little painted miniatures on it, and GW goes out of its way to make their miniatures as great as possible and make painting as mindless and easy as possible, but then they get stuck on a table with a bunch of foamcore buildings that look like a 7th grader's art project and it really brings the whole impression down. Meanwhile, you've got other games like Infinity with giant tables of MDF buildings with glorious catwalks and building interiors and it looks great. GW had to be looking at that stuff going, there's a market for this stuff and we aren't in it, and it will make our games look more appealing on the table.

They've been trying to push terrain for a while. Sector Mechanicus was a big selling point for Shadow War and they appear to have designed Necromunda around it, and they made terrain a huge part of Kill Team (you get terrain is pretty much every KT product). But cracking the 40k (and AoS) tables, where terrain is usually an afterthought and where people already have a building or two, wasn't working so well. Remember Moonbase Klaisus and Blasted Hallowheart? They never expanded that line, even though the Killzones are basically the same thing and sell out in minutes (I expect themed killzones to be a feature of the next version of 40k)

I think it was with the Sylvaneth that they realized how effective army-based terrain could be. I bet they weren't selling more than a handful of Citadel Woods sets a month before Sylvaneth, and couldn't keep them in stock afterwards. Then with the Idoneth, they did the shipwreck and I think a little lightbulb went off in their heads, and now it is a standard feature going forward.

I seem to recall it was actually the Gnalwood that made them take notice. Wood Elves have been summoning forests for years even back in the Old World era so it was nothing new. I think that the Gnalwood started to show GW that the WE/Sylvanath element wasn't just a one-off - it could be repeated!

I bought a ton of terrain with Killteam. I’ve never had better looking tables than I do now. I really hope that not only do they continue to offer army specific terrain, I hope that Warcry follows the same model as Killteam and makes terrain as important to the game as the actual warbands people fight with.
And I much prefer the AoS way to deal with terrain. I don’t know anyone who uses the faction specific 40k terrain in their army. It always seems horribly over costed. Horribly. The Ork kit was a nice model, but a terrible rule/ points cost. And I didn’t get it. Funny, I would rather buy terrain that just makes the table better looking and has nonfaction specific rules than buy
A piece of faction specific terrain that is tainted by bad rules design.
I really feel that locally at least 40k and AoS have been hurt by the constant desire of more competitive players to abstract away terrain until anything with any character is considered an annoyance and people won’t use it. The ITC magic box being the ultimate expression of generic terrain being distilled down to an idea for the sake of competitive play versus something really grand and thematic on the table. The last three games at the local store I took part in were played on a mishmash of left over bits, ugly resin stuff from some other terrain maker. The table sucked to look at and stole a lot from my experience I have recently
Been playing tons of Killteam on the beautiful tables I have now and apparently become spoiled.
So, in summary, continue with the Killteam model for that game and for Warcry. Keep rolling with 0 point faction specific terrain for AoS.

Kendo wrote:
I bought a ton of terrain with Killteam. I’ve never had better looking tables than I do now. I really hope that not only do they continue to offer army specific terrain, I hope that Warcry follows the same model as Killteam and makes terrain as important to the game as the actual warbands people fight with.

I'm really hoping for this too, but AoS doesn't have enough terrain to pull it off. We do know that they have something more substantial in the Azyrite Ruins set, and Dreadhold can be broken up in various ways to produce new sets, so who knows? I'm really pinning my future with AoS on Warcry, so fingers crossed!

But what GW really needs is some freaking stairs. None of the KT kits have it, Sector Imperialis doesn't have it. They've got stairs built into the Baleful Realmgates and (I think) Dragonfate Dais that they've been cutting out and reusing in all their battle report tables. But only the Dreadhold had an actual separate staircase. When I saw the Charnel Throne, I didn't even notice the bone chair on it because I was too busy drooling over the staircase.

Funny, I would rather buy terrain that just makes the table better looking and has nonfaction specific rules than buy A piece of faction specific terrain that is tainted by bad rules design.

You can just ignore the rules and use it as regular terrain. I was thinking of getting the Ork Mekboy Workshop for Kill Team and just ignoring the rules.