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Is the Fane allowed to be used for 40k? I guess the treasures and pillars are AOS, but aren't exclusive to them.

GaroRobe wrote:
Is the Fane allowed to be used for 40k? I guess the treasures and pillars are AOS, but aren't exclusive to them.

I don't know, but if 40K can accommodate a gardening daemon on a giant snail, I think it can accommodate the Fane.

Many a 40K Nobel will be head over heels for treasures and gold - glittering valuable ancient gold coins from the Imperium.

IMO endless spells lack the nuance and flavor of Skaven/FEC ones but still cool. I like how the mirror works with 'sucking models' in though, that is pretty cool.

Now that terrain piece... Those rules are pretty dam cool.

Hey look! All three endless spells are different ways of causing mortal wounds.

I'm shocked. Shocked I tell you!

Gee, it's almost like spells in AoS are one of the biggest ways of causing Mortal Wounds...

Yeah, 'cause AoS sure was hurting for ways to cause mortal wounds before Endless Spells came along.

So, how do Wanderers reliably put Mortal Wounds down?

I mean if it's so wildly common across the whole of the game, surely even a non-Battletome army like the Wanderers should be able to put MWs down en masse!

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Hey look! All three endless spells are different ways of causing mortal wounds.

I'm shocked. Shocked I tell you!

Yeah, compared to other recent spells which one takes for the tactical value and might do MWs on the side these are all MW focused. I am cool with one of three being like that but not too happy with these ones. Fortunately a set like this seems to be more and more of an anomaly rather than the norm.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Kanluwen wrote:
So, how do Wanderers reliably put Mortal Wounds down?

I mean if it's so wildly common across the whole of the game, surely even a non-Battletome army like the Wanderers should be able to put MWs down en masse!

[spoiler]There's three non-Artefact related ways outside of Endless Spells.
A) Before the start of the game, a Waystrider can fire off a "Heartseeker Arrow" if the enemy General is visible to him. Goes off on a 5 or more.
B) Shield of Brambles from Sisters of the Thorn--This is a spell that allows for a unit to reroll failed save rolls and when you make a save roll of a 6 or more during the combat phase? The attacking unit suffers a mortal wound after all of its attacks have been made.
---And let's put that into context here. For each save roll of a 6 or more, the attacking unit suffers a single Mortal Wound.
C) Arcane Bolt. Every Mage has access to this, so it ain't special.

The Mirror is pretty tactical forcing your opponent to move towards it or take mortal wounds

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
Straw man. He was referring to the game as a whole; a few factions lacking MW output does not make a trend.

It's almost like my first posting was saying that spells are the go-to way for people to cause Mortal Wounds, before he tried to redirect to "the game as a whole".

Frankly? If the game as a whole is so inundated with MWs, we should be seeing them everywhere.

And even more frankly, the only reason we see MWs being used so heavily is that it's a hell of a lot easier than relying on some ranged units.

Also anyone with wizards can put out good MWs using generic endless spells.

And how do you get "generic Endless Spells" again?

You pay points for them.

You know I'm reminded - the Infernal Enrapturess is still the only ranged unit in the whole Slaanesh range. Excluding any spells cast its the only model with a ranged attack. So there is an ideal slot for mortal woreshippers to fill when the time comes.

Though I'm sure some of our heroes will have some ranged or at least long reaching tricks.

nagash42 wrote:
The Mirror is pretty tactical forcing your opponent to move towards it or take mortal wounds

And the big face causes some Bravery shenanigans.

Kanluwen wrote:So, how do Wanderers reliably put Mortal Wounds down?

I mean if it's so wildly common across the whole of the game, surely even a non-Battletome army like the Wanderers should be able to put MWs down en masse!

I wouldn't take "legacy" armies so seriously, GW doesn't. Pretty sure they're on ice for something down the road or being left to make a little more money before they're left to fade into obscurity because fewer and fewer people play them with all the not under powered and new stuff around.

 DarkBlack wrote:

I wouldn't take "legacy" armies so seriously, GW doesn't. Pretty sure they're on ice for something down the road or being left to make a little more money before they're left to fade into obscurity because fewer and fewer people play them with all the not under powered and new stuff around.

Allegiance abilities in the last General's Handbook says "Sup".

 Kanluwen wrote:

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
Straw man. He was referring to the game as a whole; a few factions lacking MW output does not make a trend.

It's almost like my first posting was saying that spells are the go-to way for people to cause Mortal Wounds, before he tried to redirect to "the game as a whole".

Frankly? If the game as a whole is so inundated with MWs, we should be seeing them everywhere.

And even more frankly, the only reason we see MWs being used so heavily is that it's a hell of a lot easier than relying on some ranged units.

Also anyone with wizards can put out good MWs using generic endless spells.

And how do you get "generic Endless Spells" again?

You pay points for them.

Yeah, I do see them everywhere. As do winning tourney lists; even those that do not rely on them still deal notable amounts. Eels is probably the lowest and even then dealing those MWs on the charge turn is pretty critical to success. DoK bounce a rather large amount over the course of a game via shields.

And yes, you pay points for them. Just like everything else. That is a non-argument.


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 Kanluwen wrote:

 DarkBlack wrote:

I wouldn't take "legacy" armies so seriously, GW doesn't. Pretty sure they're on ice for something down the road or being left to make a little more money before they're left to fade into obscurity because fewer and fewer people play them with all the not under powered and new stuff around.

Allegiance abilities in the last General's Handbook says "Sup".

Yeah they are definitely an army. No battletome but a set of allegiance abilities, and a good one at that. The unit selection having some big holes in battlefield performance screws them though.

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
Yeah, I do see them everywhere. As do winning tourney lists; even those that do not rely on them still deal notable amounts. Eels is probably the lowest and even then dealing those MWs on the charge turn is pretty critical to success. DoK bounce a rather large amount over the course of a game via shields.

You've misunderstood the point. If Mortal Wounds were so abundant to the point of them being detrimental to the game as a whole, we would see them present on a hell of a lot more units than we do.

Tournaments are a garbage metric for anything other than "how do people who play games on a timecrunch play things?". I made a mention with regards to MWs being more reliable than ranged units and I stand by that.

And yes, you pay points for them. Just like everything else. That is a non-argument.

Perfectly valid argument actually. People want to whine about Endless Spells and Mortal Wounds being so gamebreaking--they need to remember that they do actually cost points.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 DarkBlack wrote:

I wouldn't take "legacy" armies so seriously, GW doesn't. Pretty sure they're on ice for something down the road or being left to make a little more money before they're left to fade into obscurity because fewer and fewer people play them with all the not under powered and new stuff around.

Allegiance abilities in the last General's Handbook says "Sup".

Yeah they are definitely an army. No battletome but a set of allegiance abilities, and a good one at that. The unit selection having some big holes in battlefield performance screws them though.

Truthfully, unit selection isn't the problem--it's stuff like the Wild Rider Shields(reroll save rolls of 1...at the cost of 2 points of Movement) and Arcane Bodkins being "once per game" or Waywatchers' Aimed Shot just being "on 6s, improve the Rend of shots".

I'm hoping that when/if we get a Battletome, some of that will be addressed.

No one brought up MWs being game breaking, just that they were extremely common. Which they are. I brought up tourney lists to show that even on the higher end they are used. Being abused or not they are rather pervasive.

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
No one brought up MWs being game breaking, just that they were extremely common. Which they are. I brought up tourney lists to show that even on the higher end they are used. Being abused or not they are rather pervasive.

If I can ever get excited for AoS again I'll be running piles of chaos warriors with shields it seems. I just with they had kept the old Chaos Warrior style for some of War Cry instead of going all Conan for everything.

The problem with chaos warriors is for their cost they are still not as durable and they have miserable damage output.

They are ok at tanking an objective however. But are still overcost. Combining them and a warshrine would get you (unless I'm just totally off base here) a 5+ extra save and a 6+ extra save additionally.

 Daedalus81 wrote:

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
No one brought up MWs being game breaking, just that they were extremely common. Which they are. I brought up tourney lists to show that even on the higher end they are used. Being abused or not they are rather pervasive.

If I can ever get excited for AoS again I'll be running piles of chaos warriors with shields it seems. I just with they had kept the old Chaos Warrior style for some of War Cry instead of going all Conan for everything.

While it remains to be seen how accurate this is, I thought of the Warcry models as Marauders (with realm specific attire) rather than Chaos Warriors.

The only equivalent to the latter AoS got, in terms of new models, that is, are Blood Warriors. I don't know what GW's plans are for Chaos, but it seems to me like Chaos Warriors are meant to take the backseat and Marauders taking over as the mainstay and iconic unit of human Chaos armies. Pretty much the inversion of how it used to be, with Sigmarines fighting hordes of trash instead of Chaos Warriors shanking soft southerners in Fantasy.

 Geifer wrote:

While it remains to be seen how accurate this is, I thought of the Warcry models as Marauders (with realm specific attire) rather than Chaos Warriors.

The only equivalent to the latter AoS got, in terms of new models, that is, are Blood Warriors. I don't know what GW's plans are for Chaos, but it seems to me like Chaos Warriors are meant to take the backseat and Marauders taking over as the mainstay and iconic unit of human Chaos armies. Pretty much the inversion of how it used to be, with Sigmarines fighting hordes of trash instead of Chaos Warriors shanking soft southerners in Fantasy.

There's a reason they were called "Hordes of Chaos" initially. Warriors weren't supposed to be the most numerous, they were supposed to be the 'elite' of the tribes, granted favor by the Dark Gods.

Yet in AoS with its near infinite realms, impossible industries and populations and casualties in the millions, billions and trillions where it could be handwaved away, Chaos Warriors seem to be on the decline.

They'd definitely be on the decline if they fought like their statline indicates lol. They are outclassed by a great deal. Their offensive capabilities are more suited to a marauder or trash troop.

 Geifer wrote:
Yet in AoS with its near infinite realms, impossible industries and populations and casualties in the millions, billions and trillions where it could be handwaved away, Chaos Warriors seem to be on the decline.

They don't "seem to be" anything really. We have not had much focused upon just them.

Truthfully? Your argument seems to be the same nonsense people used about "squatting Slaanesh!!!1!!".

A warhammer underworlds game is being made for PC.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2019/04/26/first-look-warhammer-underworlds-online/

auticus wrote:
The problem with chaos warriors is for their cost they are still not as durable and they have miserable damage output.

They are ok at tanking an objective however. But are still overcost. Combining them and a warshrine would get you (unless I'm just totally off base here) a 5+ extra save and a 6+ extra save additionally.

I've found them to perform pretty well. Having that 5+ against mortals is quite strong and means an opponent/unit relying on MWs to get past armor is in a tough spot. Given how common it is to counter armor with MWs they have a definite counter-play role. What makes them bad is running them in an StD army; in god-specific armies they are far more useful. For Tzeentch, Khorne, and Slaanesh they are an anvil unit the god doesn't otherwise have, while Nurgle makes them absurdly tough with a harbinger or quite offensive with blades of putrefaction.

A tourney list focused around them sticks in my mind since it more or less hard-countered my old skryrefyre.

Keeper now wears stockings now!

The important thing to remember about Daemons is that they don’t have “clothes” as a normal mortal does – anything they wear is as much a manifestation of the will of Slaanesh as they are. The line between where the Daemon ends and clothing begins is deliberately unclear. The stockings, for example, start as clothing, and end up as part of the Daemon itself. We wanted the clothing to give each model its own identity, distinguishing them from each other.

You... didn't notice that before?

It is something I like about how they did the kit. Among many other factors.

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
You... didn't notice that before?

It is something I like about how they did the kit. Among many other factors.

Until the ambition kicks in and you try to figure out how to paint that translucent.