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 Kanluwen wrote:

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
Wow just took a look at the king's command ability... very unimpressed. That isn't very good at all, compare to say a GUO that will do it every round on a unit that needs only be within (as opposed to completely within) 21".

I think it's pretty nice, personally. It's going to make High Tide really mean something. A unit of even 10 Thralls fighting against a big unit of 1W models or a decent sized monster suddenly becomes a huuuuge threat during High Tide.

+1A for putting all of your attacks on a single unit of 1W models puts the unit at 31 attacks(assuming an Icon Bearer--which why wouldn't you?), 3+/3+ with -1 Rend and 1D.
+1A for this General's ability means that number climbs up to 41 attacks.

Against a monster or unit with 4+ Wounds characteristic? 21 attacks with 3+/3+ -1 Rend and 2D...climbing up to 31 attacks with 3+/3+ -1 Rend and 2D.

If that unit isn't gone, your dice hated you.
Oh! And if you had an Aspect of the Storm within range, you're rerolling Wound rolls of 1.
I'm inclined to say that it'll be really nasty with a unit of Eels though.

That circumstance is very nice, on round 3 and no other round. Compare to GUO who gets to do it with a longer range, no 'completely within' restriction (which is a big deal), and every round. Or a megaboss who needs a dice roll to trigger it but does it in an aoe, with no completely within restriction, every round.

It isn't that the command ability isnt worth taking, quite the contrary as you explained, its that analogous hero options from other factions have far better versions. I can understand not wanting to overpower Deepkin with strong command avilities on top of their strong allegiance abilities (Kharadron are similarly limited) but the 'completely within' restriction AND the round restriction is too much of a handicap IMO.

At any rate its ultimately a minor criticism that doesn't take much away from the excellent rules design we've seen so far.

 NinthMusketeer wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
Wow just took a look at the king's command ability... very unimpressed. That isn't very good at all, compare to say a GUO that will do it every round on a unit that needs only be within (as opposed to completely within) 21".

I think it's pretty nice, personally. It's going to make High Tide really mean something. A unit of even 10 Thralls fighting against a big unit of 1W models or a decent sized monster suddenly becomes a huuuuge threat during High Tide.

+1A for putting all of your attacks on a single unit of 1W models puts the unit at 31 attacks(assuming an Icon Bearer--which why wouldn't you?), 3+/3+ with -1 Rend and 1D.
+1A for this General's ability means that number climbs up to 41 attacks.

Against a monster or unit with 4+ Wounds characteristic? 21 attacks with 3+/3+ -1 Rend and 2D...climbing up to 31 attacks with 3+/3+ -1 Rend and 2D.

If that unit isn't gone, your dice hated you.
Oh! And if you had an Aspect of the Storm within range, you're rerolling Wound rolls of 1.
I'm inclined to say that it'll be really nasty with a unit of Eels though.

That circumstance is very nice, on round 3 and no other round. Compare to GUO who gets to do it with a longer range, no 'completely within' restriction (which is a big deal), and every round. Or a megaboss who needs a dice roll to trigger it but does it in an aoe, with no completely within restriction, every round.

It can also be turn 2, provided you bring a Tidecaster and reverse the tables since you then start with Ebb Tide as your opening bit. As Fuethan, that means on turn 1 you'll be able to run and charge...since they count the Turn 4 ability(Ebb Tide--retreat and charge or retreat and shoot) as Turn 2's (Flood Tide--run and shoot or run and charge).
Fuethan, I think, is going to really come into its own for people who are okay with going second and stack up a few Leviadons.

On the other hand with regards to the 'completely within' part, I think it's important to note that I foresee these things being FAQ'd/errata'd with GHB2018 to all be the same wording. It's important that everything in the Deepkin book uses that wording from what's been said. Leviadrons are "entirely within", the Shipwreck is "entirely within", etc.

It isn't that the command ability isnt worth taking, quite the contrary as you explained, its that analogous hero options from other factions have far better versions. I can understand not wanting to overpower Deepkin with strong command avilities on top of their strong allegiance abilities (Kharadron are similarly limited) but the 'completely within' restriction AND the round restriction is too much of a handicap IMO.

I didn't hear/see Command Abilities for the other stuff so I do have to wonder how things are going to work on that front. Akkhelian wise we have the General and the named guy.

At any rate its ultimately a minor criticism that doesn't take much away from the excellent rules design we've seen so far.

I feel like Deepkin are going to very much be an army that is going to require patience to learn.
I've been consuming everything I can with regards to them as I want to be able to realistically play them asap--the only thing that will be holding me back is the damn release schedule!

Which really makes me want them as an army. The last time I passed up an army I thought would be rewarding to skilled players it was Tzeentch. But then again I didn't pass on Kharadron. But then again again I really like playing Kharadron...

Amazing minis - my only nitpick being that two out of three archers have their arrow on the wrong side of the bow.
They all draw with their fingers - but two have put the arrow on as if using a thumb draw. Haven’t studied the parts so I do not know if it is the sculptor or the one gluing them together who have made this (small) error.

I don't think it really is a big deal, seeing as how the archers in question are blind...

Obviously its some sort of elf trick shot.

Also the drawn bows look the same as the undrawn bows - no flex.

Otherwise they look great!

 Nostromodamus wrote:
Also the drawn bows look the same as the undrawn bows - no flex.

Otherwise they look great!

I wonder what kind of cord/string they use for underwater bows. Maybe it's a magic bow for real? No strings attached.

I'm pretty certain it's quite possible to draw and fire a bow from either side, in the heat of battle I think it's more important to get an arrow off than to stop and make sure you have the perfect form, especially when you are running and shooting at rather close ranges as their rules also give them a short range profile as well as stated they're blind which would probably add to the urgency to fire off more arrows. Also, fantasy half soul blind archer elves haha. In all honesty though I love these models and the feeling of motion that they have is great, actually sold the line to me when the first teaser went out.

 Nostromodamus wrote:
Also the drawn bows look the same as the undrawn bows - no flex.

Otherwise they look great!

Perhaps their bows -bend- the rules by using elastic strings?

Either way, I'm loving the closer look of all these minis. They're gorgeous, plain and simple. I can't wait to get Volturnos.

My plan is to replace the heasd of the various Akhelians with Wrack heads from the Drukhari range to make them look more gladitorial and vicious!

Volturnos's ability is particularly nice. Yes it's got more limited range. Yes it only applies for one turn... but that model's going to have a huge base, and the area around it is going to be a considerable amount of the board. This army is really pushing the idea of moving carefully and, in my mind, discouraging things like daisy-chaining buffs or holding objectives. Your army is going to be stronger by moving together and moving carefully.

 Mantle wrote:
I'm pretty certain it's quite possible to draw and fire a bow from either side…

It’s not. Specifically, bows have an arrow shelf carved into one side and trying to fire from the other causes the arrow to mostly hit the floor in front of you rather than pierce the enemy, with optional arm or cheek-slap from the string doing things it’s not meant to. And even if you did manage to do it, you’d still be less accurate because of the way arrows are fletched unless you also took the time to flip the arrow around too…

drbored wrote:
Either way, I'm loving the closer look of all these minis. They're gorgeous, plain and simple. I can't wait to get Volturnos.

My plan is to replace the heasd of the various Akhelians with Wrack heads from the Drukhari range to make them look more gladitorial and vicious!

Volturnos's ability is particularly nice. Yes it's got more limited range. Yes it only applies for one turn... but that model's going to have a huge base, and the area around it is going to be a considerable amount of the board. This army is really pushing the idea of moving carefully and, in my mind, discouraging things like daisy-chaining buffs or holding objectives. Your army is going to be stronger by moving together and moving carefully.

We don't know what the special character's command ability is yet, if he has one. Presumably it will be stronger to compensate for the loss of a command trait.

 Mr_Rose wrote:

 Mantle wrote:
I'm pretty certain it's quite possible to draw and fire a bow from either side…

It’s not. Specifically, bows have an arrow shelf carved into one side and trying to fire from the other causes the arrow to mostly hit the floor in front of you rather than pierce the enemy, with optional arm or cheek-slap from the string doing things it’s not meant to. And even if you did manage to do it, you’d still be less accurate because of the way arrows are fletched unless you also took the time to flip the arrow around too…

I hate to be a pedant, but ancient and medieval bows rarely had arrow shelves. I say rarely, I’m not aware of any. It’s more of a modern invention I think. In the West, arrows usually went on the left of the bow and were drawn with two fingers, but in the East, the style was to place the arrow on the right of the bow and draw with the thumb.

 MonkeyBallistic wrote:

 Mr_Rose wrote:

 Mantle wrote:
I'm pretty certain it's quite possible to draw and fire a bow from either side…

It’s not. Specifically, bows have an arrow shelf carved into one side and trying to fire from the other causes the arrow to mostly hit the floor in front of you rather than pierce the enemy, with optional arm or cheek-slap from the string doing things it’s not meant to. And even if you did manage to do it, you’d still be less accurate because of the way arrows are fletched unless you also took the time to flip the arrow around too…

I hate to be a pedant, but ancient and medieval bows rarely had arrow shelves. I say rarely, I’m not aware of any. It’s more of a modern invention I think. In the West, arrows usually went on the left of the bow and were drawn with two fingers, but in the East, the style was to place the arrow on the right of the bow and draw with the thumb.

Yep this is what I was meaning, modern bows tend to come with arrow shelves, traditional bows don't and the models don't have arrow shelves either. Although looking at the way the arrow is drawn, just between the top of the hand and the pointless bulge that a lot of fantasy bows have, I'm surprised the arrow ever flies straight haha.

Who thought necroquake was a good name...

Idoneth will respond in kind with a Sharknado!

pm713 wrote:
Who thought necroquake was a good name...

The same company who thought murderclaws on a murderfang, thunderscorn (why they didn't keep dragon-ogre is beyond me. Pretty sure that's uniquely Warhammer thing), bloodstoker and bloodsecrator were good ideas.
Current GW isn't good at names.
I mean, they were never amazing at names, but they have gotten worse due to their absolute need to make everything unique to appease the Dark Gods of Copyright.

I like thunderscorn actually, has a good ring to it and sounds brutal, aggressive. But yes, generally speaking the need to make everything sooper copywryte has led to so much naming that far more bad names have shown up in AoS than did in Fantasy. There are bright spots though; the Kharadron and new elf battletomes are pretty good on that front.

But I still can't get over "deadwalkers".

Yet none of your examples or even the above compare to the crown jewel of GW bad a naming:

Ripperdactyls

 nels1031 wrote:
Idoneth will respond in kind with a Sharknado!

Don't you freaking joke. Those movies are national treasures!

Its so unnecessary though. Dragon-Ogre was unique in that nothing else was called that and it was an accurate description. You knew what you were dealing with.
The same could not be said of thunderscorn, which could be anything.
When I hear dragon-ogre, I get the idea of something that has to do with ogres and dragons.
When I hear thunderscorn, I get the idea of...a really angry raincloud.

Yeah, ripperdactyls aren't great, but at least the model is somewhat decent. Providing you are willing to overlook the Jay Leno chin, that is.
Unllike the Razorgor, which is just bad, name and model wise.. Seriously, its like Pumba on meth.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Kanluwen wrote:

 nels1031 wrote:
Idoneth will respond in kind with a Sharknado!

Don't you freaking joke. Those movies are national treasures!

That would be pretty rad though.
If AoS were Command and Conquer that would be their super weapon.
That or a sharktopus. Or as GW's lawyers would probably call it, a shraktopuz

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Its so unnecessary though. Dragon-Ogre was unique in that nothing else was called that and it was an accurate description. You knew what you were dealing with.

While that is true, GW no longer makes any Ogres so a dragon-ogre is a dragon+what? Also they are stepping away from dragons too so…
Basically would you rather have a Thunderscorn or a Dracoth-ogor? That said, Dragon Ogor is still a keyword, as long as the Shaggoth (and there’s a name to conjure with) still lives!

 Mr_Rose wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Its so unnecessary though. Dragon-Ogre was unique in that nothing else was called that and it was an accurate description. You knew what you were dealing with.

While that is true, GW no longer makes any Ogres so a dragon-ogre is a dragon+what? Also they are stepping away from dragons too so…
Basically would you rather have a Thunderscorn or a Dracoth-ogor? That said, Dragon Ogor is still a keyword, as long as the Shaggoth (and there’s a name to conjure with) still lives!

Ok, that's a fair point.
The whole situation is still stupid though. To me it reeks of insecurity of their own IP.

I'm actually quite worried they'll rename necrons to something stupid just because FFIX has a boss named that.

http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Necron

FFIX that’s been out for 18 years..?

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

 Mr_Rose wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Its so unnecessary though. Dragon-Ogre was unique in that nothing else was called that and it was an accurate description. You knew what you were dealing with.

While that is true, GW no longer makes any Ogres so a dragon-ogre is a dragon+what? Also they are stepping away from dragons too so…
Basically would you rather have a Thunderscorn or a Dracoth-ogor? That said, Dragon Ogor is still a keyword, as long as the Shaggoth (and there’s a name to conjure with) still lives!

Ok, that's a fair point.
The whole situation is still stupid though. To me it reeks of insecurity of their own IP.

I'm actually quite worried they'll rename necrons to something stupid just because FFIX has a boss named that.

http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Necron

Yaeh they might rename them to something like Necrontyr...

 ImAGeek wrote:
FFIX that’s been out for 18 years..?

Age doesn't matter. Astra Militarum was Imperial Guard for 20 years before they decided to rename them.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Ghaz wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

 Mr_Rose wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Its so unnecessary though. Dragon-Ogre was unique in that nothing else was called that and it was an accurate description. You knew what you were dealing with.

While that is true, GW no longer makes any Ogres so a dragon-ogre is a dragon+what? Also they are stepping away from dragons too so…
Basically would you rather have a Thunderscorn or a Dracoth-ogor? That said, Dragon Ogor is still a keyword, as long as the Shaggoth (and there’s a name to conjure with) still lives!

Ok, that's a fair point.
The whole situation is still stupid though. To me it reeks of insecurity of their own IP.

I'm actually quite worried they'll rename necrons to something stupid just because FFIX has a boss named that.

http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Necron

Yaeh they might rename them to something like Necrontyr...

You'd think that, but they'd would probably name them something like Aegypteks.

I think the whole naming thing is more a holdover from old-GW than a real concern at this point. Also there is a certain tradition/culture of ridiculous naming for GW. But to go into more detail, it's hard to do good naming across a whole setting. Obviously having evering named nounnoun or nounverb is bad, but so is having everything named with made-up or bastardized latin terms because it just becomes a big mess of fluff names most people don't understand or care about. So it's important to strike a balance and we can note that the best named factions have that trend. But it isn't easy, especially not at the breakneck pace GW is releasing stuff at.

pm713 wrote:
Who thought necroquake was a good name...

Makes me think of the soulnado from mortal combat.

I hope we get more news on that "Necroquake", and how it fits with the Souls War fluff, soon...