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 Kanluwen wrote:

 NinthMusketeer wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Galas wrote:
To be honest , summoning a free treelord turn 1 just because you have Alarielle is a little bonkers.

I assume she will become more expensive based on that.

Summoning a single Treelord, turn 1, and not being able to summon anything else for the duration of the game isn't likely to be gamebreaking.

I'd be more concerned about people using it as a way to bring extra Kurnoth Hunters to be honest.

Would your opinion be the same if an opposing Kharadron player got to bring on a free frigate turn one? How about a free GUO turn 1? It's like having that many extra points in the list just for bringing her.

For a once per game ability blown on the first turn, where the unit can't move or do anything associated with what the unit is designed for?

Yeah, my opinion would be about the same. If you could bring on a free Frigate that couldn't move or shoot--I'd say it's balanced. If you could bring on a free GUO that couldn't move or cast or do anything aside from stand there as a fire magnet, yes.

Deploy Alarielle near an objective. Summon the unit on that objective. Leave it behind to do what it will do: get you an objective for free. Or, summon the unit to either side and ahead of Alarielle to push it further up the board. 9" is more movement than most units get, anyway.

Summon a squad of Kurnoth Hunters with bows. Even if they can't do anything first turn, that's free shots from then on out. And, again, they can sit on an objective, or be near a Wyldwood that will give them teleportation across the board to other Wyldwoods later in the game anyway.

As is, with all that we know, it has applications that are above and beyond the value of the points. If there's no check or balance to this, it gives Sylvaneth (and other summoning armies) a distinct advantage over others.

I'd like to point out that I said earlier I'm a bit more concerned about the Kurnoth Hunters than I would ever be about the Treelord. A Treelord's nothing compared to Kurnoth IMO.

But every army is going to get to summon, so wouldnt your opponent have the same opportunity to summon something to counter or deal with said Kurnoth Hunters?

Have the contents of the starter been confirmed? Or do we know a release date yet?

Every army gets to summon something, whether it's units or the spells. Just wait until tomorrow's preview

The point is that's most armies have a mini game they need to do to unlock summoning units, especially high tier ones. Allariel has ~240 of extra value to your army you can get turn one, with the hunters immediately contributing with their huge range

 Kanluwen wrote:

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
Then I'm sure you will gladly prove your point by playing against players who get a free 300+ point monster to deploy turn one (but it can't move!) while you get nothing. You can do that right now even, get out there and show us all how balanced it is!

Hint: It won't be.

So you know for certain that there won't be a stratagem allowing for you to shoot any freshly deployed items?

Heh, reduced to just making things up. I rest my case.

 NinthMusketeer wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
Then I'm sure you will gladly prove your point by playing against players who get a free 300+ point monster to deploy turn one (but it can't move!) while you get nothing. You can do that right now even, get out there and show us all how balanced it is!

Hint: It won't be.

So you know for certain that there won't be a stratagem allowing for you to shoot any freshly deployed items?

Heh, reduced to just making things up. I rest my case.

your argument rests on the assumption that other armies won't get a similar mechanic, so is that not equally guilty?
Hint: It is.
Back to rumours?
Still no word on what the other summonable spells are?


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 Skimask Mohawk wrote:
The point is that's most armies have a mini game they need to do to unlock summoning units, especially high tier ones. Allariel has ~240 of extra value to your army you can get turn one, with the hunters immediately contributing with their huge range

But that's balanced by taking Allariel, who is EZ to kill. None of my hardcore scene players care at all. We talked all day yesterday about it. It's definitely nice, but she's just not a factor in whether Slyvaneth win their games or not. We don't think this changes much.

Sure she's easy to kill...currently. I'd be amazed if the mortal wound spamming, deepstriking lists stayed the same in points in the new generals handbook, considering they've been rampaging across the game since the first generals handbook.

First Stormcast episode is up. It had some interesting tidbits.

-The "Predatory" Endless spells(the jaws are an example of these) can be taken control of during the course of the game.
-Some of the Endless spells will be a permanent buff or usable item. Jervis mentions his favorite is a spell that creates two 'mirrors' through which you can cast or move.
-If an enemy model is within 3" of you, you can only fire your missile weapon at that enemy model.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Endless Spells!

Endless spells are moved at the start of each battle round after determining who gets the first turn, with players taking it in turns to pick a spell to move, starting with the player that has the second turn that round. You’ll be able to move any Endless Spell with this move, not just the ones you control, representing their wild and untameable nature. Summon a Suffocating Gravetide and you might find yourself needing to volunteer to take the second turn in a round to stop your opponent from sending it crashing into your own units! Suddenly, always shooting for a double turn can become a very dangerous prospect indeed…

That can put a wrench for sure.

I really like that setup.

Also I love that mirror spell. Hucking a Purple Sun of Xereus through it would be entertaining.

This from the article is a cool thing:

Endless spells are one of the unforeseen consequences of Nagash’s machinations in Shyish. Where previously spells would dissipate naturally, many now take on a life of their own, roaming the realms and accumulating power almost indefinitely. Some wizards in the Mortal Realms have even taken up work as bounty hunters, tracking them down and dispelling them, while certain examples are as notorious as any dragon or beast that lives in the woods, like the legendary Phantom Blade that cleaves through Ulgu.

 Kanluwen wrote:
I really like that setup.

Also I love that mirror spell. Hucking a Purple Sun of Xereus through it would be entertaining.

This from the article is a cool thing:

Endless spells are one of the unforeseen consequences of Nagash’s machinations in Shyish. Where previously spells would dissipate naturally, many now take on a life of their own, roaming the realms and accumulating power almost indefinitely. Some wizards in the Mortal Realms have even taken up work as bounty hunters, tracking them down and dispelling them, while certain examples are as notorious as any dragon or beast that lives in the woods, like the legendary Phantom Blade that cleaves through Ulgu.

Yeah. It instantly made me want to convert a Spellhunter.

Also noted that the Balewind Vortex is receiving "... a complete rules overhaul in line with the rest of the endless spells." And could that be another as of yet unnamed endless spell between the Seraphon and Ironjawz as well...

Judging from the text I would assume that crystal wall gives cover from shooting, which is useful for gun lines for example. All in all these endless spells are a perfect example of why I find AoS so much more exciting that 40k at the moment. The designers are just having so much fun coming up with outlandish concepts and rules that you would never see in 40k.

 Ghaz wrote:
Also noted that the Balewind Vortex is receiving "... a complete rules overhaul in line with the rest of the endless spells." And could that be another as of yet unnamed endless spell between the Seraphon and Ironjawz as well...

Could be the one they mentioned as a "utility” spell that provides cover against ranged attacks.

2d6 MW on W6+ units? Holy hell! They may as well rename to the Visage of Xereus ability to "Oh : , oh ,oh !"


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Also, did anyone else noticed that the Stormcast battletome is flagged as Last Chance to Buy?

Yeah, people pointed it at tga.

Anyone else looking at these spells and thinking 'Man, these would make cool effects for DnD'?

I have concerns about these spells. The tug-of-war with them will be interesting. Also, it's clear that there will be many more models for spells than we first anticipated. Depending on how the realm rules work, it's possible that GW is going to push for every player that has spellcasting to get all of the spell models so they can play on every kind of realm. I'm a bit concerned with that, since it adds a big cost to every army, but we'll see how the realm selection rules work out I suppose...

The spells are interesting, but the whole idea of Nagash messing with things that magic can become sentient is actually quite interesting.

 EnTyme wrote:
2d6 MW on W6+ units? Holy hell! They may as well rename to the Visage of Xereus ability to "Oh : , oh ,oh !"

And if you cast it, your opponent can control it against you if you take the double turn. So is having a double turn now all that bad now? It might seem people will NOT want the double turn now.

Neronoxx wrote:

 NinthMusketeer wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
Then I'm sure you will gladly prove your point by playing against players who get a free 300+ point monster to deploy turn one (but it can't move!) while you get nothing. You can do that right now even, get out there and show us all how balanced it is!

Hint: It won't be.

So you know for certain that there won't be a stratagem allowing for you to shoot any freshly deployed items?

Heh, reduced to just making things up. I rest my case.

your argument rests on the assumption that other armies won't get a similar mechanic, so is that not equally guilty?
Hint: It is.
Back to rumours?
Still no word on what the other summonable spells are?


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 Skimask Mohawk wrote:
The point is that's most armies have a mini game they need to do to unlock summoning units, especially high tier ones. Allariel has ~240 of extra value to your army you can get turn one, with the hunters immediately contributing with their huge range

But that's balanced by taking Allariel, who is EZ to kill. None of my hardcore scene players care at all. We talked all day yesterday about it. It's definitely nice, but she's just not a factor in whether Slyvaneth win their games or not. We don't think this changes much.

Assuming a specific rule that we have no indication or rumor of will, in fact, not be implemented verses making up said rule and saying it will. No, those aren't the same, but it's cute that you made an attempt at turning that around. Topped off by Alarielle being easy to kill. What game are you playing Kan? It isn't Age of Sigmar.

And if your local group can't make Alerielle a factor in winning games then they are just terrible at playing Sylvaneth. The rest of us have no problem doing so.

Edit: Your counter argument was probably going to be 'well you just don't know how to counter her properly' so I'll head that off by saying that the players bringing her to tournaments seem pretty confident in her potency.

Chopxsticks wrote:
But every army is going to get to summon, so wouldnt your opponent have the same opportunity to summon something to counter or deal with said Kurnoth Hunters?

So what they actually said was this "Units won’t be the only thing you can summon in the new edition of Warhammer Age of Sigmar – stay tuned for more exciting news on the way for EVERY army later in the week" which is referring to the endless spells, which require wizards. Which means that not only does every army NOT get free units, any army that doesn't have STRONG magic gets no summons at all. Even armies like Idoneth and DoK are never actually going to get to use these on the simple basis that Arkhan, Nagash, and the LoC exist.

So far, my pessimistic viewpoint is that they're destroying any semblance of balance in matched play for the sake of making you buy hundreds of dollars of extra models(gotta buy that extra 400pts of stuff I can summon, gotta buy all the endless spell models, gotta buy a new army because mine can't summon)

My more optimistic viewpoint is that they're using game mechanics to force you to buy hundreds of dollars of extra models and are maybe going to put some effort into rebalancing for matched play, so that things should be good enough after the first or second big FAQ.


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drbored wrote:
Anyone else looking at these spells and thinking 'Man, these would make cool effects for DnD'?

I have concerns about these spells. The tug-of-war with them will be interesting. Also, it's clear that there will be many more models for spells than we first anticipated. Depending on how the realm rules work, it's possible that GW is going to push for every player that has spellcasting to get all of the spell models so they can play on every kind of realm. I'm a bit concerned with that, since it adds a big cost to every army, but we'll see how the realm selection rules work out I suppose...

Basing off of the fact that so far 1. Everything that used to cost points to summon is now free and 2. That the endless spells have special bonuses for being used on specific realms, I'm going to say that it's likely that every spell will be usable(and free) in every realm, but will be better in the realm associated with their faction. Which means that if you run a magic heavy army you may well have to buy MANY, if not ALL of the different endless spell models.

There is room for some optimism, there could be one or more unseen rules of one that counterbalance things. If I had to guess I'd still say free summoning will be house ruled out the same way model-to-model measuring is, but I am willing to withold judgement. From what we know now it is highly imbalanced however.

Faction Focus: Skaven from Warhammer Community:

Several skaven units have had their points tweaked in the new edition, making them great choices as allies or as units in their own right. We’re happiest about Thanquol and Boneripper being reduced to the point where they’ll comfortably fill out an Allies choice in a 2000 point matched play list. If you’re feeling particularly devious, use him in an Eshin army and cast Skitterleap on him with a Verminlord Deceiver to drop this deadly duo 6″ away from your unfortunate foes – just in range of their brutal Warpfire Projectors.



Finally, let’s talk about summoning. The skaven are getting some nifty new options to play with in the new edition that, while not quite as reliable as those used by armies like the Legions of Nagash, are still a lot of fun to use. Lord Skreech Verminking’s ability, the Dreaded Thirteenth Spell, now literally turns your foes into Clanrats:



Meanwhile, the Screaming Bell can still give you a Verminlord on a roll of a double 6 – only now, it doesn’t cost any points! Nifty, eh?

In other news, Thanquol is probably going to be showing up a lot at 400 points for a monster, a wizard, and a shooting attack that does 2d6 mortal wounds automatically.

2d6 mortal wounds 'automatically'?

There was a reason that during one edition of WFB (and probably more than one) Skaven were considered particularly cheesy.

Warpfire, jezails, etc.

This latest version seems pretty awful too.

With the aforementioned skitterleap, you get within 8" range for the warpfire throwers that do an automatic 2d6 mortal

ERJAK wrote:

Chopxsticks wrote:
But every army is going to get to summon, so wouldnt your opponent have the same opportunity to summon something to counter or deal with said Kurnoth Hunters?

So what they actually said was this "Units won’t be the only thing you can summon in the new edition of Warhammer Age of Sigmar – stay tuned for more exciting news on the way for EVERY army later in the week" which is referring to the endless spells, which require wizards. Which means that not only does every army NOT get free units, any army that doesn't have STRONG magic gets no summons at all. Even armies like Idoneth and DoK are never actually going to get to use these on the simple basis that Arkhan, Nagash, and the LoC exist.

So far, my pessimistic viewpoint is that they're destroying any semblance of balance in matched play for the sake of making you buy hundreds of dollars of extra models(gotta buy that extra 400pts of stuff I can summon, gotta buy all the endless spell models, gotta buy a new army because mine can't summon)

My more optimistic viewpoint is that they're using game mechanics to force you to buy hundreds of dollars of extra models and are maybe going to put some effort into rebalancing for matched play, so that things should be good enough after the first or second big FAQ.

Ok so you jumped from every army will have a way to summon units to endless spells? So what are we discussing now? I still think summoning mid battle only helps you counter and adjust for things you might not have prepared for. I also still think every army will have some way of summoning units.




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100 pt reduction on Boneripper! Makes me wonder what other crazy reductions we are going to see. I'd be happy to see more large models on a table and not have to push around 50 models in a single Unit.

They also mentioned lowering the points for spirits of Durthu and Kurnoth Hunters too, so, it won't surprise me to see a lot of big models around.