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 Kanluwen wrote:
You can't use AoS as an example since they're seemingly trying to recover from an (arguably) "failed" attempt to tie army releases to story. Everything in AoS was tied to the campaign books early on, we'd get 2 factions per book.

As it stands, yeah we have seen a bit of "more even treatment of factions". Genestealer Cults for example.

Well, yeah I can use AoS as an example because it happened. Whether if failed and is now getting fixed is beside the point as long as we get tons of Order models and a single Death model since Age of Sigmar was released. The bias is there and until GW does anything about it in a meaningful way, the point stands.

Genestealer Cults? Remind me, that's the xenos faction that got released after Imperials got added Knights, two sub-factions of the Adeptus Mechanicus and Deathwatch along with full model complements, right? Yeah, I'm feeling the love, man.

 Kanluwen wrote:
So how many "big chickens" did Custodes come with?

Oh right, none that didn't already exist.

Terminators existed in artwork but not as models. Jetbikes existed as artwork but not as models. And before you bring up Forge World, Forge World's Custodes are irrelevant to the contents of the Custodes codex as much as Forge World's Kroot are irrelevant to the contents of a potential Kroot codex. So yeah, they totally got models that preciously didn't exist, all the while retaining all prior Custodes kits (yeah, the one that existed) without alteration or update.

Which leads me to ask, who cares about Custodes? The situation of Custodes is not comparable at all to that of Kroot. Custodes were not integrated into a parent codex for most of their existence, have no metal/resin models that could be updated to plastic and don't have a fifteen year old plastic kit that could use an update either. Completely irrelevant comparison.

 Kanluwen wrote:
Battle suits and y'know, the Tidewall stuff?

I guess GW prioritizing Tau terrain over coalition race models in the past is somehow supposed to make a case for the popularity of Kroot? What did I miss?

 Kanluwen wrote:
Did you ever think that maybe he was going to be part of a release for a Black Legion Codex?.

Frankly I try not to think of more unnecessary codices that pointlessly fracture factions into mini factions that can barely stand on their own.

 Kanluwen wrote:
Don't start that garbage. Please.

You could have read that as the joke it was, and would have had a better better time in the process, Why so serious?

 Kanluwen wrote:
The issue with this idea is that you're failing to mention that Slaanesh is going to need quite a bit of stuff in terms of AoS and 40k both. It would be a big release while Black Legion and Khorne wouldn't need a whole lot.

Releasing other stuff first is not going to remove the need for the exact same number of kits for Slaanesh. What makes later a better time than sooner?

Especially if you subscribe to the pattern we may see forming of alternating traitor/loyalist primarchs every half a year, releasing Angron now doesn't just push back Fulgrim (and thus Slaanesh as a whole) a little but an entire year since you have to account for the loyalist in between them.

 Geifer wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
You can't use AoS as an example since they're seemingly trying to recover from an (arguably) "failed" attempt to tie army releases to story. Everything in AoS was tied to the campaign books early on, we'd get 2 factions per book.

As it stands, yeah we have seen a bit of "more even treatment of factions". Genestealer Cults for example.

Well, yeah I can use AoS as an example because it happened. Whether if failed and is now getting fixed is beside the point as long as we get tons of Order models and a single Death model since Age of Sigmar was released. The bias is there and until GW does anything about it in a meaningful way, the point stands.

So we're ignoring the Mortarchs, Morghast, and Nagash for End Times? Cool. Good to know.

A lot of the factions that "haven't seen a single release for AoS" saw their stuff come out during/just prior to the End Times. Try being a Wood Elves player, who still has the majority of their characters in metal and had their unit options gutted with AoS' release.

Genestealer Cults? Remind me, that's the xenos faction that got released after Imperials got added Knights, two sub-factions of the Adeptus Mechanicus and Deathwatch along with full model complements, right? Yeah, I'm feeling the love, man.

lol...yeah, so many models.
Deathwatch saw four dedicated kits(Artemis, Kill-Team Cassius, Deathwatch Kill-Team, Corvus Blackstar) and a conversion sprue.
AdMech, under the way it was split, saw:
4 kits for Skitarii(Sicarian double box, Skitarii double box, Onager kit, and Ironstrider double box--NO HQ, which has also screwed them over as a playable solo faction for 8th despite the fact it could easily have been done)
4 kits for Cult(Kataphron box, Electropriests, Kastelans, Techpriest Dominus blister)

Genestealer Cult saw a similar number of kits(triple pack of the HQ choices, Acolytes double kit, Neophytes box, Rockgrinder double kit, and Iconward solo blister), a conversion sprue allowing them access to a number of Guard items, and boxes packaged of Guard stuff plus that sprue.

 Kanluwen wrote:
So how many "big chickens" did Custodes come with?

Oh right, none that didn't already exist.

Terminators existed in artwork but not as models. Jetbikes existed as artwork but not as models. And before you bring up Forge World, Forge World's Custodes are irrelevant to the contents of the Custodes codex as much as Forge World's Kroot are irrelevant to the contents of a potential Kroot codex. So yeah, they totally got models that preciously didn't exist, all the while retaining all prior Custodes kits (yeah, the one that existed) without alteration or update.

You understand that Custodes also saw their two biggest vehicles(Redemptor and Land Raider) be nothing but a shiny box change yeah?

The releases for the Custodes were basically in line with most of the new releases/line expansions: 4 items plus maybe using some existing stuff. Alarus Terminators, the 'Skirt Variant' Custodes(which really shouldn't have happened but is neither here nor there), the Captain blister, Jetbikes.

Which leads me to ask, who cares about Custodes? The situation of Custodes is not comparable at all to that of Kroot. Custodes were not integrated into a parent codex for most of their existence, have no metal/resin models that could be updated to plastic and don't have a fifteen year old plastic kit that could use an update either. Completely irrelevant comparison.

Custodes had a single box that was released as part of a board game, given rules in "Agents of the Imperium" and also got a big box of them and Sisters of Silence with rules booklets in there.

I'll agree that I have no clue who really wanted Custodes, but apparently they've been a hotly anticipated item. They'd regularly been selling out.

 Kanluwen wrote:
Battle suits and y'know, the Tidewall stuff?

I guess GW prioritizing Tau terrain over coalition race models in the past is somehow supposed to make a case for the popularity of Kroot? What did I miss?

You argued that GW moved towards "big suits" and things like that for the Tau.

I pointed out the Tidewall exists. If you "missed" anything, it's on you.

 Kanluwen wrote:
Did you ever think that maybe he was going to be part of a release for a Black Legion Codex?.

Frankly I try not to think of more unnecessary codices that pointlessly fracture factions into mini factions that can barely stand on their own.

Except it allows for allies, which Chaos players have been complaining they don't have enough access to.

 Kanluwen wrote:
Don't start that garbage. Please.

You could have read that as the joke it was, and would have had a better better time in the process, Why so serious?

Probably because it's nonsense that gets spread left and right and is downright toxic for the discussion it brings along.
You're also dealing with a text medium. Nobody can know you're making a joke unless it's so blatantly obvious that it is the equivalent of Jim from accounting telling a joke with a Joker styled smile on his face and going "EH? EH? EH?" while waiting for the awkward laughter to fade away.

 Kanluwen wrote:
The issue with this idea is that you're failing to mention that Slaanesh is going to need quite a bit of stuff in terms of AoS and 40k both. It would be a big release while Black Legion and Khorne wouldn't need a whole lot.

Releasing other stuff first is not going to remove the need for the exact same number of kits for Slaanesh. What makes later a better time than sooner?

4 kits for Khorne(with at least Flesh Hounds being usable for AoS) versus 6 or 7 for Slaanesh, at a time when they've reportedly been having production issues because of remodeling/bringing things up to code makes "later a better time than sooner".

Especially if you subscribe to the pattern we may see forming of alternating traitor/loyalist primarchs every half a year, releasing Angron now doesn't just push back Fulgrim (and thus Slaanesh as a whole) a little but an entire year since you have to account for the loyalist in between them.

The problem with this is that it ignores that most big releases alternated "half a year" already.

except black legion is perfectly represented by codex chaos marines. The Black Legion are the "Ultramarines" of chaos. IF the Space Wolves vs Black Legion bx set rumors are true, it'll coincide with a space wolf Codex, and a combined space wolf and black Legion model release. We should not expect a BL codex, what we can EXPECT is a Plastic Abbaddon. What we can hope for is a update of the old chaos marines box, and maybe a Mutilator/obliterator duo build kit

BrianDavion wrote:
except black legion is perfectly represented by codex chaos marines. The Black Legion are the "Ultramarines" of chaos. IF the Space Wolves vs Black Legion bx set rumors are true, it'll coincide with a space wolf Codex, and a combined space wolf and black Legion model release. We should not expect a BL codex, what we can EXPECT is a Plastic Abbaddon. What we can hope for is a update of the old chaos marines box, and maybe a Mutilator/obliterator duo build kit

Pretty much this. Nobody's expecting a new AdMech Codex for Forgebane either (I hope). It might be as little as a new character sprue (Abaddon) and a re-release of the Dark Vengeance Chosen/Helbrute/Cultists.

Sunny Side Up wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:
except black legion is perfectly represented by codex chaos marines. The Black Legion are the "Ultramarines" of chaos. IF the Space Wolves vs Black Legion bx set rumors are true, it'll coincide with a space wolf Codex, and a combined space wolf and black Legion model release. We should not expect a BL codex, what we can EXPECT is a Plastic Abbaddon. What we can hope for is a update of the old chaos marines box, and maybe a Mutilator/obliterator duo build kit

Pretty much this. Nobody's expecting a new AdMech Codex for Forgebane either (I hope). It might be as little as a new character sprue (Abaddon) and a re-release of the Dark Vengeance Chosen/Helbrute/Cultists.

Chosen/Helbrute/Cultists would be pointless. The Helbrute has its own kit, Cultists are...ehhh at this point(I'm expecting a plastic kit for them at some point, possibly tied into a World Eaters book), and Chosen are the only thing that people would want from it. If they wanted to do that, they'd just rerelease Dark Vengeance.
Again.

When I, personally, say that "Did you ever think that maybe he was going to be part of a release for a Black Legion Codex?"--I don't give a timeline for a reason. GW is seemingly thinking way more long-term than many of us are at this point, and I think it to be quite reasonable that somewhere down the line they want a Black Legion Codex to be a thing. They seem to want Renegade Marines to potentially be a thing as well, which would really open them up to something different for "Codex: Chaos Marines" if they chose to go that route.

I could easily see them bringing us a Black Legion book with Abaddon, Chosen, fodder, and the ability to take "Black Legionnaire" versions of the various God-touched types.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

BrianDavion wrote:
except black legion is perfectly represented by codex chaos marines. The Black Legion are the "Ultramarines" of chaos. IF the Space Wolves vs Black Legion bx set rumors are true, it'll coincide with a space wolf Codex, and a combined space wolf and black Legion model release. We should not expect a BL codex, what we can EXPECT is a Plastic Abbaddon. What we can hope for is a update of the old chaos marines box, and maybe a Mutilator/obliterator duo build kit

They're the Ultramarines of Chaos if Ultramarines could put Dark Angels, Space Wolves, and Blood Angels into their ranks with no real penalties.

Current cultists are fine. I never understood why anyone would want to assemble a multipart kit for chaf that you need 100 of. Honestly I wish more basic troop kits followed the current push fit cultist route. You get 4 cadians in and realize they all assemble the same anyway, it's beyond stupid cutting, cleaning and gluing 6-8 contact points when they could easily be 1 or 2 piece models.

Not everybody wants an army made up of the same three or four models though..

 Kanluwen wrote:

Kroot getting a codex actually is pretty believable. It opens up an Ally option for the Tau. The Kroot models aren't bad either, with a few tweaks here and there(some armor plates that can be added to the models, adding Pulse Rifles or Carbines onto the sprues, some capes/cloaks/ponchos) you could rework the Carnivores into having a multi-kit for Troops, Elites, etc. A plastic Shaper and Krootox/Hounds would basically seal it as a viable Ally book like Custodes.

If Kroot get a codex, I'd expect plastic Knarlocs as well.

If we get a Kroot Codex and Abbadon I will be very happy. However, I wont get my hopes up yet.

 VictorVonTzeentch wrote:
If we get a Kroot Codex and Abbadon I will be very happy. However, I wont get my hopes up yet.

As long as we get a Sisters book before Kroot, the world will be right.

 John Prins wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

Kroot getting a codex actually is pretty believable. It opens up an Ally option for the Tau. The Kroot models aren't bad either, with a few tweaks here and there(some armor plates that can be added to the models, adding Pulse Rifles or Carbines onto the sprues, some capes/cloaks/ponchos) you could rework the Carnivores into having a multi-kit for Troops, Elites, etc. A plastic Shaper and Krootox/Hounds would basically seal it as a viable Ally book like Custodes.

If Kroot get a codex, I'd expect plastic Knarlocs as well.

Maybe. Maybe not.

If Knarlocs start showing up in the fluff, I'd lean more towards it though.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 John Prins wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

Kroot getting a codex actually is pretty believable. It opens up an Ally option for the Tau. The Kroot models aren't bad either, with a few tweaks here and there(some armor plates that can be added to the models, adding Pulse Rifles or Carbines onto the sprues, some capes/cloaks/ponchos) you could rework the Carnivores into having a multi-kit for Troops, Elites, etc. A plastic Shaper and Krootox/Hounds would basically seal it as a viable Ally book like Custodes.

If Kroot get a codex, I'd expect plastic Knarlocs as well.

Maybe. Maybe not.

If Knarlocs start showing up in the fluff, I'd lean more towards it though.

Well, Kroot need to start showing up in the fluff again, first.

 MajorWesJanson wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

 John Prins wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

Kroot getting a codex actually is pretty believable. It opens up an Ally option for the Tau. The Kroot models aren't bad either, with a few tweaks here and there(some armor plates that can be added to the models, adding Pulse Rifles or Carbines onto the sprues, some capes/cloaks/ponchos) you could rework the Carnivores into having a multi-kit for Troops, Elites, etc. A plastic Shaper and Krootox/Hounds would basically seal it as a viable Ally book like Custodes.

If Kroot get a codex, I'd expect plastic Knarlocs as well.

Maybe. Maybe not.

If Knarlocs start showing up in the fluff, I'd lean more towards it though.

Well, Kroot need to start showing up in the fluff again, first.

Fair play. I haven't really been looking for them so might have missed some examples.

I'd not mind a chosen/CSM combo kit with a ton of new options etc.

"Black Legionaire Marines" would most likely be the launch to the new CSM redesign.

They would be Black Legion on the box art, but everyone waiting for Primaris sized marines for Chaos will finally get theirs.

Wasn't there talk of a Kult of Speed codex for Orks along with something for Wolves at the end of the year?

They can't both be right.

I can't see 2 more primarchs coming so quickly either. We've only just had Morty, relatively speaking.

 An Actual Englishman wrote:
Wasn't there talk of a Kult of Speed codex for Orks along with something for Wolves at the end of the year?

They can't both be right.

I can't see 2 more primarchs coming so quickly either. We've only just had Morty, relatively speaking.

Mortarion was like October. By the time any of this comes out (if it’s true) it’ll be what, summer? That’s more time than between Guilliman and Morty.

Magnus - November 2016
Gulliman - March 2017 - four months
Morty - September 2017 - six months
Russ - April+ - seven+ months

 An Actual Englishman wrote:
Wasn't there talk of a Kult of Speed codex for Orks along with something for Wolves at the end of the year?

They can't both be right.

I can't see 2 more primarchs coming so quickly either. We've only just had Morty, relatively speaking.

IIRC, Orks were supposed to be June.

I'd be so keen for a Kroot codex if that turns out to be a thing. Love those dudes

 andysonic1 wrote:
Magnus - November 2016
Gulliman - March 2017 - four months
Morty - September 2017 - six months
Russ - April+ - seven+ months

Fulgrim end of the Year with the Slannesh release as well

Its still not out of Question to release 2 Primarchs together. Guilliman came in a 3 pack.

They drop the Lion and Wolf at the same time, (after the SW codex of course) and get both SW,DA, and Codex Marine players to buy the same book.

I would even see Abaddon and resized CSM released around then. Speculating of course.

 BrookM wrote:
Not everybody wants an army made up of the same three or four models though..

LOL Yea OK because that makes sense. I forgot that everyone fields nothing but basic infantry guardsmen and scrub level cultists in there armies. It isn't as though those armies have half a dozen tanks and artillery pieces or multiple demon engines mucking about or anything, taking all the real attention. Just scrubs. /s

I was talking about 4 point scrubs. Show me an army that has nothing but basic cultist equivalents? Doesn't happen. Not on ly that but then show me a few large bricks of cadian infantry where the multi part actually makes a difference. I have cleaned, built, and painted 100's of such infantry and at the end of the day, they all look just about the same anyway.

 MajorWesJanson wrote:

 An Actual Englishman wrote:
Wasn't there talk of a Kult of Speed codex for Orks along with something for Wolves at the end of the year?

They can't both be right.

I can't see 2 more primarchs coming so quickly either. We've only just had Morty, relatively speaking.

IIRC, Orks were supposed to be June.

Orks were June, but a separate Kult of Speed release was allegedly slated for December.

 Red Corsair wrote:
I was talking about 4 point scrubs. Show me an army that has nothing but basic cultist equivalents? Doesn't happen

What, never seen the Poxwalker farm?

More variety in Cultist models would allow for greater variety in weapon choices. Right now they only have what you can model, and that's lame.

 ImAGeek wrote:

 An Actual Englishman wrote:
Wasn't there talk of a Kult of Speed codex for Orks along with something for Wolves at the end of the year?

They can't both be right.

I can't see 2 more primarchs coming so quickly either. We've only just had Morty, relatively speaking.

Mortarion was like October. By the time any of this comes out (if it’s true) it’ll be what, summer? That’s more time than between Guilliman and Morty.

I was on about 2 new primarchs.

 Red Corsair wrote:
Current cultists are fine. I never understood why anyone would want to assemble a multipart kit for chaf that you need 100 of. Honestly I wish more basic troop kits followed the current push fit cultist route. You get 4 cadians in and realize they all assemble the same anyway, it's beyond stupid cutting, cleaning and gluing 6-8 contact points when they could easily be 1 or 2 piece models.

Agree completely. Maybe separate heads - but to get a Guardsman in a decent aiming position for example you end up using specific combinations of components, and half the squad needs moar choppin to look good. Basic, well posed frames that you can then customise with a choice of heads, backpacks, random kits would be my ideal.

Now, special and heavy weapons are then tricky to include in the same box. I'd hate if say each squads' meltagun was in the same pose. A separate box of say 5 differently posed monofit special weapons where you can mix up the specials would again be lovely. You could change the main gun and have backpacks/belt pouches for extra ammo.

 Nightlord1987 wrote:
Its still not out of Question to release 2 Primarchs together.

Actually, it's out of the question given recent GW production problems. It makes far more sense to make X of one big kit, start selling, then in meantime make X of another, than to wait twice as long with no new releases until you have X+X to not run out immediately, and end up with both kits cannibalizing each other's sales and not even remotely making up for the long barren period in between...

 MajorWesJanson wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

 John Prins wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

Kroot getting a codex actually is pretty believable. It opens up an Ally option for the Tau. The Kroot models aren't bad either, with a few tweaks here and there(some armor plates that can be added to the models, adding Pulse Rifles or Carbines onto the sprues, some capes/cloaks/ponchos) you could rework the Carnivores into having a multi-kit for Troops, Elites, etc. A plastic Shaper and Krootox/Hounds would basically seal it as a viable Ally book like Custodes.

If Kroot get a codex, I'd expect plastic Knarlocs as well.

Maybe. Maybe not.

If Knarlocs start showing up in the fluff, I'd lean more towards it though.

Well, Kroot need to start showing up in the fluff again, first.

Sisters are often in the fluff, the novels, the artwork but that has not resulted in very much...even the new Inferno mag has a Sororitas story.

A Kroot Codex could be interesting but rather have Client races Codex

Kroot codex seems like the most natural extension given that they are the more populous mercenary group for the T'au. Then either Vespids (maybe finally expanding it beyond one unit), or client races... There's so many of them and some of them are pretty cool in their own right but don't get but much beyond fluff mentions.