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So, I'm wondering about peoples' thoughts on Glottkin. They come with quite a few features in their package, but I can't help but feel that they're a bit lacklustre for their cost. 18W is nice, but with only a 4+ inbuilt save, everything that wants to look in their direction is going to chew threw them pretty quickly anyway, and D3 regen per turn is just not enough to keep the brothers going once something sets its sights on them (which is pretty easy for ranged armies, since you can't really hide the big guy...). Being able to take a Harbringer with him is really nice, but he's still scared of anything that looks at him funny.

Offensively speaking, Glotty's alright for an army lacking in offensive push, but he's not anything to write home about, and ends up whiffing horribly for me half the time anyway.

He's probably potent when paired with Plague Monks in excess for glass hammer shenanigans, but with Nurgle Mortals, I feel like we overpay a decent bit.

Glottkin is amazing. That command ability is worth 150 pts just for showing up (remember it affects him as well). He's really durable for an expensive monster, the 'weakness' is that if you run him off on his own and he gets surrounded he'll die like a chump, which is true of every monster anyways. You can camp Festus behind him for extra healing as well. Keep in mind units can't shoot out of combat anymore, so locking them down with something else prevents them from sniping. Further, they may have spent the first round or two doing damage to Glottkin but not killing him, then you heal him up anyways.

In my experience, against artillery heavy armies, Glottkin is usually an easy 0-death in a single double turn. Without one, you're still heavily crippled by time you get across the board. Even without artillery, getting eviscerated in combat isn't exactly difficult. Being melted by a Bloodthirster in a single combat phase is a very real possibility, and they're mobile enough to make protecting Glotty difficult.

What are you using to heal him up? While Nurgle has lots of heals to pass around, they're not exactly reliable heals.

He's only a little less durable than a single unit of Blightkings, which sounds impressive until you remember he costs almost 3 times as much.

He can get some big plays, and isn't bad, but I just feel that he's not a really optimal take for Rotbringers. In a game that's still going to be dominated by mortal wound and gunline spam, a monster with no protection against mortal wounds (or rend in general) is just going to suffer.

Well to go with those examples; if an enemy is running heavy shooting and gets a round 1-2 double you're kinda just dead and it doesn't matter what you brought. This isn't specific to Nurgle, it's just the nature of how doubles work. So I think considering the effectiveness of models under those conditions is somewhat moot since you will be at such a tremendous disadvantage anyways. As for the Bloodthirster, if he one you'll need to bubble-wrap Glottkin so he can't get the jump. The bloodthirster kills what's between Glotty and him, then opens himself up to a counter charge the next turn. Remember that Nurgle is best on the counter-charge, charging outright is generally the less ideal tactic.

At any rate, I will agree with you that Glottkin (somewhat ironically) are best used with not-Blightkings since models that are less elite or have multiple melee weapons like plaguebearers, plague monks, and drone-riders benefit a lot more from their command ability. And if they aren't being brought for the command ability they just aren't very good. Whenever I bring Glottkin I always bring a 30-man plaguebearer unit and unless I am very short on points I will bring Festus who sits behind them to give them extra healing. Bringing a Harbinger to drop morbid vigor the first round or two isn't a terrible idea since you won't have a lot in combat anyways (and he can carry the witherstave), if command points are a big concern it's a case where it's worth going 50 short for an extra point. A lord of Blights could also offer shooting protection, generally speaking I think the Harbinger would be better in this case but if you're running a Blight Cyst it's something to keep in mind. If running a rotbringer-heavy Glotty list then plaguetouched is a good option for the hit penalty to keep him alive better in melee.

Now all this is talking in general game terms, if we are talking competitive then the situation is a bit different. But I suspect this edition Nurgle is going to run into the serious problem of 'you can't beat Seraphon' that almost every army will until their summoning gets nerfed.

Hey Ninth,
I'm a 40k DG/Nurgle player who tried out AoS2.0 at a release event over the weekend and loved it. I'm looking to get in using my existing Nurgle Daemons and the additional models I was already planning on buying thru Blightwar and a few other recent pickups. I'm hoping for a little advice, and maybe clearing up a bit of confusion. I've read the Core Rules and played a demo game and have access to the Nurgle Battletome. My thought for what to build for now is a Slimux list, and I'd like to get to use the summoning since that's not really a factor at all in 40k due to costing points. If I'm looking to gear towards Slimux and summoning, the Menagerie Battalion seems like the way to go for dropping extra trees and the extra CP, but it seems very expensive and I'm not quite sure how to jam everything in. Right now I've got the following list in Battlescribe, but I'm 20 points over and now sure how to fix that:

Battalion: Nurgle's Menagerie
Horticulux Slimux
1x Beast of Nurgle
1x Beast of Nurgle
1x Beast of Nurgle
1x 3 Nurglings
1x 3 Nurglings
1x 3 Plague Drones

Spoilpox Scrivener
30x Plaguebearers (battleline)
30x Plaguebearers (battleline)
10x Plaguebearers (battleline)

That puts me at 2020 points in BS. One thing I'm not clear on yet from now having the full rulebook is the Battleline requirements and how that interacts with Battalions. Does taking a Battalion and meeting those requirements remove the Battleline requirements? If I could drop the 10-man Plaguebearer unit I can fit fine, and it doesn't seem like it will be that useful. It just seems like there's a lot of points tied up in the Battalion and its requirements, and then it's silly to take smaller than 30-man PB squads if you can, but like I said I'm over and not sure what I can pull. If I have to meet the 3x Battleline requirement then my only option is to drop one of the big PB squads to 20, which seems less than ideal.

My thought for how to play this army was for Slimux and his Beasts to walk up the middle and drop a tree every turn, get the Drones and Nurglings into enemy territory, and then summon a GUO. The PBs are an anchor for holding my territory and objectives.

Matched play requirements require the battleline. I have not ever read that battalion requirements erase that need.

Battalions are created in general for all three modes of play. Matched play is an added restriction.

auticus wrote:
Matched play requirements require the battleline. I have not ever read that battalion requirements erase that need.

Battalions are created in general for all three modes of play. Matched play is an added restriction.

Thanks. What about for Leader requirements? BS did not count Slimux in the Battalion as fulfilling the Leader requirement for a Pitched Battle 2000pt list, so I added the Scrivener, which I was really planning on doing anyway. Does the contents of the Battalion not count for any of the Pitched Battle army requirements, or is that just a BS issue? BS is also currently not letting me give both the Scrivener and Slimux artifacts even tho the Battalions rules say you gain an extra one for using the Battalion.

Battlescribe is notoriously filled with bugs.

To my knowledge, the matched play restrictions are minimum and maximums for your slots overall. I don't have my books on me but am pretty sure your leaders in your battalion are counted on your leader slots.

You cannot give artefacts to named characters.

auticus wrote:
Battlescribe is notoriously filled with bugs.

To my knowledge, the matched play restrictions are minimum and maximums for your slots overall. I don't have my books on me but am pretty sure your leaders in your battalion are counted on your leader slots.

You cannot give artefacts to named characters.

Ok, that's all really helpful, thanks. I wish the Warscroll Builder site had the Battalion requirements, but it seems like those are the thing they lock up for book or in-app purchases. I think to make my list above I'm stuck dropping one of the big PB blobs down to 20.

Yeah they want you to buy the books to get the battalions.

 Prometheum5 wrote:
Hey Ninth,
I'm a 40k DG/Nurgle player who tried out AoS2.0 at a release event over the weekend and loved it. I'm looking to get in using my existing Nurgle Daemons and the additional models I was already planning on buying thru Blightwar and a few other recent pickups. I'm hoping for a little advice, and maybe clearing up a bit of confusion. I've read the Core Rules and played a demo game and have access to the Nurgle Battletome. My thought for what to build for now is a Slimux list, and I'd like to get to use the summoning since that's not really a factor at all in 40k due to costing points. If I'm looking to gear towards Slimux and summoning, the Menagerie Battalion seems like the way to go for dropping extra trees and the extra CP, but it seems very expensive and I'm not quite sure how to jam everything in. Right now I've got the following list in Battlescribe, but I'm 20 points over and now sure how to fix that:

Battalion: Nurgle's Menagerie
Horticulux Slimux
1x Beast of Nurgle
1x Beast of Nurgle
1x Beast of Nurgle
1x 3 Nurglings
1x 3 Nurglings
1x 3 Plague Drones

Spoilpox Scrivener
30x Plaguebearers (battleline)
30x Plaguebearers (battleline)
10x Plaguebearers (battleline)

That puts me at 2020 points in BS. One thing I'm not clear on yet from now having the full rulebook is the Battleline requirements and how that interacts with Battalions. Does taking a Battalion and meeting those requirements remove the Battleline requirements? If I could drop the 10-man Plaguebearer unit I can fit fine, and it doesn't seem like it will be that useful. It just seems like there's a lot of points tied up in the Battalion and its requirements, and then it's silly to take smaller than 30-man PB squads if you can, but like I said I'm over and not sure what I can pull. If I have to meet the 3x Battleline requirement then my only option is to drop one of the big PB squads to 20, which seems less than ideal.

My thought for how to play this army was for Slimux and his Beasts to walk up the middle and drop a tree every turn, get the Drones and Nurglings into enemy territory, and then summon a GUO. The PBs are an anchor for holding my territory and objectives.

So the basic idea here is solid; a strong main line that can endure while you ramp up summons. You'll want to be very careful about overextending in the first half of the game; be VERY sure you want to charge before you do so in the first two rounds, but don't be afraid to burn command points on max run distance if you need to get those plaguebearers to center-board objectives. Take witherstave on the scrivener. Your basic positioning will want to be 30 plaguebearers on one side, 30 on the other, the three beasts in the middle with Horty & Scrivener behind them. Be careful with exposing horty since he can die quickly (camping him in cover helps a good deal here as he'll have a 2+ save). Be sure to deep-strike nurglings into the enemy deployment zone if at all possible, then just do whatever is needed to keep them alive and in that zone. Don't worry as much about keeping the enemy out of yours. It will be tempting to send the drones off to do whatever on the flank but resist that urge because without the benefit of their locus they are not nearly as effective; as a default tactic I'd keep them behind the plaguebearers to jump out for counter charges but there's no issue with putting them up front either. Remember to plan ahead for tree positioning so you have room to deploy it outside of 3" of the enemy (trees within 3" of the enemy don't generate Contagion Points).

As for making up the 20 points, dropping the 10-man plaguebearer unit for 5 chaos warriors is the simplest option. A daemon-centered and perhaps stronger option is to drop one 30-man down to 10 (never run 20-man, ever) which frees up enough points to run a poxbringer instead of a scrivener; a big deal since it will give you a spellcaster to dispel, change the cycle with foul regenesis, and/or cast favored poxes (from the lore of nurgle). The remaining 160 can be spent on a daemon prince that can carry the extra artifact you get from having a battalion (endless gift is a good one, or just a straight-up offensive weapon if you want him to be a beatstick) and trigger the daemonic locus on drones if they want to fly off somewhere.

 Fafnir wrote:
In my experience, against artillery heavy armies, Glottkin is usually an easy 0-death in a single double turn. Without one, you're still heavily crippled by time you get across the board. Even without artillery, getting eviscerated in combat isn't exactly difficult. Being melted by a Bloodthirster in a single combat phase is a very real possibility, and they're mobile enough to make protecting Glotty difficult.

What are you using to heal him up? While Nurgle has lots of heals to pass around, they're not exactly reliable heals.

He's only a little less durable than a single unit of Blightkings, which sounds impressive until you remember he costs almost 3 times as much.

He can get some big plays, and isn't bad, but I just feel that he's not a really optimal take for Rotbringers. In a game that's still going to be dominated by mortal wound and gunline spam, a monster with no protection against mortal wounds (or rend in general) is just going to suffer.

Obviously he has his natural d3, and Ninth mentioned having festus behind him for another d3.. there is always the emerald lifeswarm endless spell for another d3. Nearby blightkings have a 17% chance to heal him another d3. Keeping the cycle of corruption at the right spot to land on Unnatural Regrowth for another d3 is really helpful as well.

I run him every game I play. I take a 40 man block of maruaders to double their wounds, attacks and cast blades on them. They have an easy way to get +1 to hit. So they can do mortal wounds on 5s with 80 attacks, all the while being an 80 wound unit. For 200 points. When plaguetouched was a thing it was an unstoppable machine which was kicking back mortal wounds to the enemy on 5s as well.

Glotkin is REALLY good. But you have to understand his points cost is spread out amongst the force multipliers he gives to his underlings. Suitable given his allegiance to the grandfather

------------------------------------------------------------------

Automatically Appended Next Post:
I was curious as to what each summonable unit was in term of efficiency using Contagion Points, so I made this chart. It shows how many matched play points per contagion point each unit being summoned is worth. The higher the points per contagion point.. the more efficient the summon. This doesn't mean "better" because some units have specific roles on the battlefield you cant quantify. You may need a hero on an objective so you summon horticulous...even though 20 plaguebearers costs the same contagion point and is more efficient.. for example.



Interesting notes:

Each contagion point averages out to be about 8.5 matched play points.

Horticulous gives you a free blight tree, which itself will generated about 10 contagion points..which is worth 8.5 each. So Horticulous ESSENTIALLY generates 85 matched play points naturally. If you take this into account against his actual matched play cost.. he is only a 135 point unit! He really shines in 2nd edition.

Thanks for all the advice, the play tips are very helpful. I have a model I wanted to use as a DP, but I didn't see an entry in the Maggotkin book so I didn't know he was a choice. How do I take a DP in the Nurgle Daemon list, does he need to be an ally? Can I assign a Nurgle artefact to an Allied Leader? Some of the nuances of AoS list building are a little confusing coming from 40k 8E.

For taking spells, if I assign Poxbringer a spell from the Nurgle lore, does that replace Eruptive Infestation on his data card? I didn't get where you use the Lore spells when everyone seems to have an assigned spell on their card.

 Prometheum5 wrote:
Thanks for all the advice, the play tips are very helpful. I have a model I wanted to use as a DP, but I didn't see an entry in the Maggotkin book so I didn't know he was a choice. How do I take a DP in the Nurgle Daemon list, does he need to be an ally? Can I assign a Nurgle artefact to an Allied Leader? Some of the nuances of AoS list building are a little confusing coming from 40k 8E.

For taking spells, if I assign Poxbringer a spell from the Nurgle lore, does that replace Eruptive Infestation on his data card? I didn't get where you use the Lore spells when everyone seems to have an assigned spell on their card.

Happy to help! The daemon prince is a generic Daemons of Chaos warscroll but in that it has the option to be marked. You'll note that "Maggotkin" is not a keyword; the allegiance actually applies to the "Nurgle" keyword. So anything that has or can be given that keyword are included within the allegiance. Allegiance spells are in addition to what's on the warscroll; it isn't an extra spell they can cast but it is an extra option.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Sal4m4nd3r wrote:

 Fafnir wrote:
In my experience, against artillery heavy armies, Glottkin is usually an easy 0-death in a single double turn. Without one, you're still heavily crippled by time you get across the board. Even without artillery, getting eviscerated in combat isn't exactly difficult. Being melted by a Bloodthirster in a single combat phase is a very real possibility, and they're mobile enough to make protecting Glotty difficult.

What are you using to heal him up? While Nurgle has lots of heals to pass around, they're not exactly reliable heals.

He's only a little less durable than a single unit of Blightkings, which sounds impressive until you remember he costs almost 3 times as much.

He can get some big plays, and isn't bad, but I just feel that he's not a really optimal take for Rotbringers. In a game that's still going to be dominated by mortal wound and gunline spam, a monster with no protection against mortal wounds (or rend in general) is just going to suffer.

Obviously he has his natural d3, and Ninth mentioned having festus behind him for another d3.. there is always the emerald lifeswarm endless spell for another d3. Nearby blightkings have a 17% chance to heal him another d3. Keeping the cycle of corruption at the right spot to land on Unnatural Regrowth for another d3 is really helpful as well.

I run him every game I play. I take a 40 man block of maruaders to double their wounds, attacks and cast blades on them. They have an easy way to get +1 to hit. So they can do mortal wounds on 5s with 80 attacks, all the while being an 80 wound unit. For 200 points. When plaguetouched was a thing it was an unstoppable machine which was kicking back mortal wounds to the enemy on 5s as well.

Glotkin is REALLY good. But you have to understand his points cost is spread out amongst the force multipliers he gives to his underlings. Suitable given his allegiance to the grandfather

------------------------------------------------------------------

Automatically Appended Next Post:
I was curious as to what each summonable unit was in term of efficiency using Contagion Points, so I made this chart. It shows how many matched play points per contagion point each unit being summoned is worth. The higher the points per contagion point.. the more efficient the summon. This doesn't mean "better" because some units have specific roles on the battlefield you cant quantify. You may need a hero on an objective so you summon horticulous...even though 20 plaguebearers costs the same contagion point and is more efficient.. for example.



Interesting notes:

Each contagion point averages out to be about 8.5 matched play points.

Horticulous gives you a free blight tree, which itself will generated about 10 contagion points..which is worth 8.5 each. So Horticulous ESSENTIALLY generates 85 matched play points naturally. If you take this into account against his actual matched play cost.. he is only a 135 point unit! He really shines in 2nd edition.

Helpful, but there are some other factors to keep in mind. The biggest is when they show up; a GUO needs to be more efficient in cost because he will spend a number of rounds not being summoned yet while cheaper units will be doing stuff, reducting its effective value. The second factor is that matched play points are a flawed representation of gameplay value; 20 plaguebearers is not worth the 240 points you pay for them, for example. However the table is still insightful and I thank you for sharing it!

 NinthMusketeer wrote:

 Prometheum5 wrote:
Thanks for all the advice, the play tips are very helpful. I have a model I wanted to use as a DP, but I didn't see an entry in the Maggotkin book so I didn't know he was a choice. How do I take a DP in the Nurgle Daemon list, does he need to be an ally? Can I assign a Nurgle artefact to an Allied Leader? Some of the nuances of AoS list building are a little confusing coming from 40k 8E.

For taking spells, if I assign Poxbringer a spell from the Nurgle lore, does that replace Eruptive Infestation on his data card? I didn't get where you use the Lore spells when everyone seems to have an assigned spell on their card.

Happy to help! The daemon prince is a generic Daemons of Chaos warscroll but in that it has the option to be marked. You'll note that "Maggotkin" is not a keyword; the allegiance actually applies to the "Nurgle" keyword. So anything that has or can be given that keyword are included within the allegiance. Allegiance spells are in addition to what's on the warscroll; it isn't an extra spell they can cast but it is an extra option.

Awesome, thanks! I don't think BS is accounting for the Prince correctly but at least I know I can take him and bring all the right data cards. Glad I have a model with a sword to use, because it doesn't look like you can take double Talons like you can in 40k. It's weird to see what arbitrary differences there are in shared units. The math all works out now for one 30x PB and two 10x PB teams, the Herald, and the DP. Should be fun to try out, I've only got to build and paint all of the Beasts, Horti, and a crapload of trees.

Yeah don't take battlescribe's word for anything; it's riddled with errors. Good luck!

Going to try the following in a match against Stormcast. For lolz.

Mr Cuddles the Great Unclean One with Witherstave, Pestilent Breath, and the Favored Poxes spell

Festus with Blades of Putrefecation to cast on units getting into combat for mortal wound lolz

Lord of Blights

30 Plague Bearers
30 Plague Bearers
10 Blight Kings

Chaos War Mammoth marked Nurgle

The Cogs and the Shackles endless Spells.

1980 pts. 151 wounds.

Keep the plague bearers near to screen against the teleporting BS of the stormcast. Send the mammoth to counter attack. Slow pondering army. Trying out the mammoth this time and the endless spells.

Psh, the real way to play Nurgle is this:

GUO; Witherstave, Grandfather's Gift, Sumptuous Pestilence

10 Plaguebearers
5 Chaos Warriors
5 Chaos Warriors

War Mammoth
War Mammoth
War Mammoth
War Mammoth

Cogs


(But seriously; good luck to you! I know you are more into fun lists, but if you have trouble with Stormcast consider investing more heavily into the daemon side (as in 6x drones and a nurgling unit to get into their zone quickly for more summoning) since they have that handy ward save against mortals.)

My opponent is more of a funsies guy as well. Typically I have drones in my list but I wanted to try the mammoth out. I'd likely have drones and nurglings swapping in and out with the mammoth.

What are you using for a war mammoth model?

Back in 2013 one of our guys who was a manager at Toys R Us let me know they had a Schleich elephant with a howdah and armor.

$50 and is a little taller than the forgeworld version but was perfect.

Hey folks. I would like to get into NURGLE as well. Have blightwar and a start collecting box in wrap but I would rather not have to paint a hundred Plaguebearers.

Is there room in 2k for both a GUO and Slimux? What would go well with them? Assume money is no object but I can't use FW.

So I'm 1-1 currently with the list I posted above. Soundly defeated a stormcast force but was annihilated by a lord kroak on balewind (he by himself killed 90% of my army in a single magic phase)

This thursday night I'm up against Drycha and a Spirit of Durthu sylvaneth list.

I'm pondering removing the mammoth just because he can't get into forests and she can just hide her stuff in there out of reach.

Kroak is basically auto-win currently. There's no purpose in building around fighting him, since any build built on a fringe capable of dealing with him would likely be to specialized to properly handle much else.

Ignore him for now until GW does something about it. Best you can do at the moment is forfeit politely and save yourself the time.

 lord_blackfang wrote:
Hey folks. I would like to get into NURGLE as well. Have blightwar and a start collecting box in wrap but I would rather not have to paint a hundred Plaguebearers.

Is there room in 2k for both a GUO and Slimux? What would go well with them? Assume money is no object but I can't use FW.

There is. Are you looking to do mono-daemon or full maggotkin? At any rate, looking at what you have you'll want to bring the poxbringer as a support caster/locus bubble, grab another 10 plaguebearers so you can run a blob of 30, and bring in the drones as one 6-man unit (they respond very well to the GUOs command ability).

 NinthMusketeer wrote:

 lord_blackfang wrote:
Hey folks. I would like to get into NURGLE as well. Have blightwar and a start collecting box in wrap but I would rather not have to paint a hundred Plaguebearers.

Is there room in 2k for both a GUO and Slimux? What would go well with them? Assume money is no object but I can't use FW.

There is. Are you looking to do mono-daemon or full maggotkin? At any rate, looking at what you have you'll want to bring the poxbringer as a support caster/locus bubble, grab another 10 plaguebearers so you can run a blob of 30, and bring in the drones as one 6-man unit (they respond very well to the GUOs command ability).

Thanks! I would actually much prefer a mixed army, I am cool with all types of mortals/rotbringers.

Then I would fill your other two battleline with blightkings and consider either Gutrot Spume or Nurglings for deep strike capacity (you want to get a unit into your opponent's territory asap for those sweet sweet contagion points). You can use any extra points to experiment with what you find fun, and/or allied units if it suits your fancy. Remember to bring Witherstave on your GUO, and Chronomantic Cogs.

Thanks! I remembered I actually also have 3 unbuilt Maggoths I bought cheap off bitz sites and never used.

So I will risk going a bit low on DAEMON HEROES to stuff one of those guys in too. The wizard one with the -1 to hit aura.

So it'll be
GUO
Horticulus
Maggoth guy
30 PB
5 Blightkings
5 Blightkings
Gutrot Spume
6 drones

Last night I took the list I posted above (GUO with witherstaff, Festus, 30 plague bearers, 30 plague bearers, 10 blight kings with a lord of plagues leading them, and the chaos mammoth) and took on a sylvaneth army.

* Drycha, Durthu, Treelord Ancient, 3 hunters wtih bows, 3 hunters with bows, 3 hunters with scythes, 20 dryads, 5 spites, 5 spites, pair of branch wraiths casting

Deploy was sylvaneth in the center, nurgle all around 12" in from each corner. Hold objectives at end of turn to win.

The mammoth destroyed drycha and durthu before being taken down by hunters (and then landing on a hunter and killing it in death)

The plague bearers getting joy of grandfather (+1 attack) was great. I couldn't get any spells off.

Really the play of the game was once again the mammoth. It occupied her focus most of the game and the rest of my army was able to weather her remaining attacks.

She would have done better had she just ignored the mammoth, ssummoned woods up to block it and make it move around, and then focused on the GUO.

Does anyone run a marked Daemon Prince? What do you think of him?