Codex Adeptus Custodes: By His will alone

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**Primark G**

Some of us like a little challenge plus maybe it will be nerfed in the next CA.

**mrhappyface**

Skhmt wrote:
Hate to say it, but taking a guard battalion for cheap CP and regenerating CP is a very very competitive choice. It's like THE definition of min-max, so much so that if you have the Imperial keyword, you're intentionally making a worse list if you don't spend the less than 200 pts on 5+ CP and 3 more obsec units.

If you want to run casual/friendly games, do pure Custodes.

Aye, that makes sense looking at it now; I just automatically through in the Guard detachment because otherwise you can't make use of all the fun stratagems.

Maybe something like this for a more casual Custodes list:

Spoiler:

**stratigo**

Spartacus wrote:
stratigo wrote:
BrianDavion wrote:
stratigo wrote:
casvalremdeikun wrote:
Spartacus wrote:
Custodes with shields and spears is the best. If only it actually existed in game...
I would love to have Hoplite Custodes. They absolutely should exist in game.

Hoplite dudes are mechanicus based titan legion support in the setting

by hoplight they refer to people using a spear and a shield.

I am... more than aware yes. The Mechanicus have dudes like that. They support titan legions.

Okay but bringing Mechanicus stuff into it was just a weird way to take the conversation, that's all.

This is what every Custodian Battalion needs:

Spoiler:

EARN THESE SHIELDS BOYS!

Custodes guardian spears aren’t actually Spears, they’re glaives, and they’d be very weird being used with a shield.

**mrhappyface**

Had a semi-competitive game today in a local Ladder tournament; I won but was informed by my opponent that he has added Custodes to the list of armies he won't play, along with Guard. The game was going pretty poorly for me at first (lost my bikes, bike Captain and entire Guard battalion pretty quickly) but then my Custodes Guard just sat on the two objectives for the rest of the game and would not die, one Custodes squad took two turns of his entire army shooting them to lose two models.

According to my opponent, it's not fun shooting a unit and doing nothing to it (between poor hit and wound rolls, lucky saves, command re-roll on failed saves and poor rolls for damage, I just would not die) was very de-moralising and wasn't fun to play against. I love my Custodes-Guard heretic force (I loved building them especially) but it's becoming the new Taudar.

I'm now stuck between using the models I love and have fun using, and playing games that I enjoy because me and my opponent are both having fun. What to do?

**Crazyterran**

Your opponent admitted to only having fun when hes pulling your models off the table.

Tell him to stop being a donkey cave.

**BrianDavion**

Crazyterran wrote:
Your opponent admitted to only having fun when hes pulling your models off the table.

Tell him to stop being a donkey cave.

Crazy Terran is right. custodes pay for that durability with a high points cost. An Imperial Guard player can have a 1 to ten kill ratio and STILL come out on top vs custodes, just for example

**Audustum**

mrhappyface wrote:
Had a semi-competitive game today in a local Ladder tournament; I won but was informed by my opponent that he has added Custodes to the list of armies he won't play, along with Guard. The game was going pretty poorly for me at first (lost my bikes, bike Captain and entire Guard battalion pretty quickly) but then my Custodes Guard just sat on the two objectives for the rest of the game and would not die, one Custodes squad took two turns of his entire army shooting them to lose two models.

According to my opponent, it's not fun shooting a unit and doing nothing to it (between poor hit and wound rolls, lucky saves, command re-roll on failed saves and poor rolls for damage, I just would not die) was very de-moralising and wasn't fun to play against. I love my Custodes-Guard heretic force (I loved building them especially) but it's becoming the new Taudar.

I'm now stuck between using the models I love and have fun using, and playing games that I enjoy because me and my opponent are both having fun. What to do?

Your guy he needs to MASSIVELY optimize his shooting. He should have no trouble breaking some stationary Guardians (or even just swarming note ObSec bodies on them).

I've just about dropped Guardians from even 'for fun' play because all I face and mass Daemons (claws hurt real bad), mass Genestealers, mass Guard artillery, Dark Reaper spam and, previously, double Fire Raptors. And that was just in the practice games! Guardians we're putting me in danger of getting tabled.

**Primark G**

That doesn't sound like any funsies to me.

**RogueApiary**

mrhappyface wrote:
Had a semi-competitive game today in a local Ladder tournament; I won but was informed by my opponent that he has added Custodes to the list of armies he won't play, along with Guard. The game was going pretty poorly for me at first (lost my bikes, bike Captain and entire Guard battalion pretty quickly) but then my Custodes Guard just sat on the two objectives for the rest of the game and would not die, one Custodes squad took two turns of his entire army shooting them to lose two models.

According to my opponent, it's not fun shooting a unit and doing nothing to it (between poor hit and wound rolls, lucky saves, command re-roll on failed saves and poor rolls for damage, I just would not die) was very de-moralising and wasn't fun to play against. I love my Custodes-Guard heretic force (I loved building them especially) but it's becoming the new Taudar.

I'm now stuck between using the models I love and have fun using, and playing games that I enjoy because me and my opponent are both having fun. What to do?

Your opponent sounds like a jackass. Anybody who refuses to play multiple entire armies is a garbage player who just thinks they're entitled to easy wins. Do yourself a favor and stop playing that guy even if you aren't bringing Custodes.

You're not the problem here. He is.

**Primark G**

Yeah Mr HappyF it sounds like that opponent was a bit of a shnozzle. I would not let it bother you. TBH you are running a good list that is not super tweaked. /thumbs up

**jotace**

Any tips or lists against Tau at 1750?

**Thadin**

Against Tau, it depends on the list. The sorts of list I tend to run in to hard counter multi-wound melee, so tailoring a Custodes list to be more of a balance between shooting and melee may be for the best. As usual, Jetbike and Jetbike captains are your best friend. Clear out chaff and bigger targets, charge in to mop up. Hope you cleared out enough and don't die horribly to FTGT.

A Telamon Dreadnought, maybe even a Contemptor Dreadnought for some ranged firepower may be decent.

Riptides with Heavy Burst cannons will ruin your day. It has the balance between strength, rate of fire, a bit of AP, and multi-damage that makes Custerds cry.

It depends what you run in to against Tau.

**Primark G**

Make sure there is a good amount of LoS blocking terrain.

**Skhmt**

Played a game with a 7 man Allarus squad against IG with three tanks, two basilisks, two flyers, and some infantry.

Wiped out the bubble wrap, dropped in the terminators, they weathered a turn of shooting, then unleashed the lions. The (now) 6 terminators spread out, getting charges off on the entire army.

Was pretty amazing to see actually work.

**Primark G**

It’s really good for large squads.

**stratigo**

jotace wrote:
Any tips or lists against Tau at 1750?

being honest, I wouldn't play tau unless you are in a tourny. You can beat them, and most tau players are actually just straight bad at winning games. But winning requires you to simply never try to engage the tau castle (most games will have a tau castle) and sit on objectives as your army is shot to gak. In the end you'll have won the objetive, and done minimal damage, and it's not a game I find very fun to play.

**mrhappyface**

So the Knight Codex is on it's way and I'm becoming more and more attracted to the idea of running a Knight: either the big one with the death spear and Character killing Rocket or one of the medium ones with a Gauntlet (that stratagem, damn!).

But, as I'm sure you're all aware, Custodes are a very points and CP draining army; is it too much to try and run Custodes and Knights together?

**Spartacus**

Apparently you wont get access to the stratagems if you just take a single SH Auxiliary Detachment, just like in some other codexes like Guard.

You'd need to take 1 plus 2 Armigers minimum, and that also won't earn you the 3 CP bonus either.

**greyknight12**

I have 3 armies: GK, IK, and Custodes (bought in that order)...yeah I’m an elitist.
From my IK experience, I’ll give you the cliche advice: wait for the codex. Simply put, with detachment and CP manipulation caveats I would wait and see how other players are using solo knights. I’ve seen talk of a couple ideas that make your knight awesome...but for 3-4 CP a turn. So I’d wait just a couple more weeks, unless you alread have the model.
That said, the main thing you’re doing with a knight is killling other knights, or knight-like things. Custodes already have chaff-clearing and basic melee covered, so any ally is going to fill either a need for CP, numbers, or high-strength damage. Knights fill the latter of those requirements. From my GK experience I’ll tell you that I’d take 2 grandmaster dreadknights over a single imperial knight any day; they have knight-killing melee and better invul saves. I’m just not sure yet if a knight is going to be better than a couple contemptors.

**mrhappyface**

Spartacus wrote:Apparently you wont get access to the stratagems if you just take a single SH Auxiliary Detachment, just like in some other codexes like Guard.

You'd need to take 1 plus 2 Armigers minimum, and that also won't earn you the 3 CP bonus either.

Didn't someone say something about a special knight detachment where you can take a single knight and get their special rules?

greyknight12 wrote:I have 3 armies: GK, IK, and Custodes (bought in that order)...yeah I’m an elitist.
From my IK experience, I’ll give you the cliche advice: wait for the codex. Simply put, with detachment and CP manipulation caveats I would wait and see how other players are using solo knights. I’ve seen talk of a couple ideas that make your knight awesome...but for 3-4 CP a turn. So I’d wait just a couple more weeks, unless you alread have the model.
That said, the main thing you’re doing with a knight is killling other knights, or knight-like things. Custodes already have chaff-clearing and basic melee covered, so any ally is going to fill either a need for CP, numbers, or high-strength damage. Knights fill the latter of those requirements. From my GK experience I’ll tell you that I’d take 2 grandmaster dreadknights over a single imperial knight any day; they have knight-killing melee and better invul saves. I’m just not sure yet if a knight is going to be better than a couple contemptors.

I already have a couple of knights (Though one is the regular sword +cannon knight and the other is the pretty useless Lancer). So maybe I will wait a while and then maybe buy either the character, the renegade set or the big knight.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
I could do a 2000pt list like this:
- Guard CP battery
- Custodes bike spam (3x bikes, 2x bike captains and a Vexilla)
- A knight (this list gives me about 580pts spare so we'll have to see which knight is best, I'm liking the harpoon one though because I want any vehicle/monster with 11 wounds or less and no invul to die)

**Primark G**

If you run Knights and Custodes it’s going to be an extremely small army.

**mrhappyface**

Primark G wrote:
If you run Knights and Custodes it’s going to be an extremely small army.

Is that necessarily a bad thing? I've run smaller armies than the one I've just posted.

**greyknight12**

mrhappyface wrote:
Primark G wrote:
If you run Knights and Custodes it’s going to be an extremely small army.

Is that necessarily a bad thing? I've run smaller armies than the one I've just posted.

As long as you have enough units to grab objectives and your units are worth their points then there is nothing wrong with a small army.

**Primark G**

I think it’ll be hard. Maybe one Knight.

**Iago40k**

So I am working o a Custodes/AdMech/Knight list. I run an Custodes AdMech list at a recent GT and since we got the knights now I want to take at least one unkillable Gallant to rock around. I will take a Battalion of AdMech (Stygies) and I am thinking on taking some Custodes as well. Question is if I do the boring thing and take 3 Captains or if there is another, cooler way like a Custodes Battalion. I havent seen many people using those though, Or should one just spam some Bikes? Since I am fairly new to Custodes I would like to hear some opinions what you think would be a good addition to a knight (and some AdMech Dragoons

)

cheers

**Primark G**

I doubt you'll have the points for a AC battalion. I run a vanguard detachment:

Shield-Cpt on Dawneagle
Vexilla Praetor
Allarus
Wardens

**Skhmt**

Thinking of using some helverins for long range firepower... But I always go back to neutron laser crawlers.

**stratigo**

The vigilant is a REALLY good anti custodes platform, but really wants to have access to traits and artifacts and strategums to make it work, and I figure it'll be the same for most knights.

**Slashy McTalons**

For 2CP the Knight could have both a warlord trait and a relic.

**greyknight12**

Since we’re talking about knights, it’s probably worth revisiting the discussion of how to beat them. With their feet and shooting they have specifically anti-custodes offense, and outside of melee and FW beta rules we don’t have phenomenal anti-vehicle. My initial thoughts are:
1. If there’s only one (as an ally), probably ignore it. You’re more efficient against whatever else your opponent has.
2. If there are several (or only/majority knights), the key will be to focus down i.e. outright kill one or two early. En masse we can kill them, and the loss of 25% of their models will hurt a knight list. Once we’ve reduced them a bit, just hang out on objectives and outlast/outmaneuver them. Alternatively you ignore camping, and systematically kill them one at a time using the bulk of your army.