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Well there's the 2 week FAQ where nerf might come. CA is too early for changes there so if it's not in the 2 week faq it's going to get nerfed next spring faq. So prepare for long slog over IH armies.

I just hope they don't run in the same direction, and all the sudden in order to compensate weapons suddenly become a LOT more damaging. Because GW doubling down on the dumb dumb is not unheard of.

My question for new list:

2 squads of 6x bikes w/ bolters = 1080 pts

or

2x squads of 6x Allarus 948.

The Termies will be better at destroying the big stuff and wiping out the back field. The bikes are better at wiping out chaff and holding positions. I've never based a list around Allarus but I want to see if they can perform for their points, and I have a local small event coming up. I feel the Termies will earn their points back better than the Bikes.

I really like the allarus terminators and they have nice stratagems. They can work well if you pull off a vexilla teleport homer, but if you have to count on them to make a charge if you port them into the enemy backfield without the vexilla, they become unreliable in my opinion.

The bikes are more agile, can clear hordes better with their hurricane bolters and hit as hard as the allarus against most things (at least on the charge).

I'd say go for the allarus and see if it works. They are a cool unit and they can do a lot of work if they manage to get to their target, I just think the bikes are more versatile in general

So here's the list I played with last night at a local FLGS. I had two games, one against a pretty much all Mech IH player, and one against a Tau player. The first game I actually won, mostly due to my opponent not knowing how to run IH yet, and how to really cheese me out. I took down both his repulsors and his contemptor on turn 2, which scared the hell out of him. VERY lucky charges by my termies, and a few unlucky wound saves by him. If he had more experience with IH, I would have easily lost.

The Tau whipped my butt. Just, nothing survived to turn 4. I'm not used to playing against Tau, and even when I got in close, his overwatch killed almost half my force, and then I couldn't effectively clear his shield drones without overwhelming firepower from Jetbikes, so I was screwed.

All in all, great anti-elite, anti-Heavy list. Loved how it completely chewed through the IH. TERRRIBLE at horde or gunline armies. That being said, I would chalk up a lot of the Tau loss to my personal mistakes and not being able to account for his defensive strategy.


+ HQ [16 PL, 248pts] +

Shield Captain in Allarus Terminator Armor [8 PL, 124pts]: Castellan Axe [14pts], Superior Creation, Warlord
. Raiment of Sorrows

Shield Captain in Allarus Terminator Armor [8 PL, 124pts]: Castellan Axe [14pts]

+ Troops [24 PL, 453pts] +

Custodian Guard Squad [8 PL, 141pts]
. Custodian [3 PL, 47pts]: Sentinel Blade [7pts]
. Custodian [3 PL, 47pts]: Sentinel Blade [7pts]
. Custodian [3 PL, 47pts]: Sentinel Blade [7pts]

Custodian Guard Squad [8 PL, 156pts]
. Custodian [3 PL, 52pts]: Guardian Spear [12pts]
. Custodian [3 PL, 52pts]: Guardian Spear [12pts]
. Custodian [3 PL, 52pts]: Guardian Spear [12pts]

Custodian Guard Squad [8 PL, 156pts]
. Custodian [3 PL, 52pts]: Guardian Spear [12pts]
. Custodian [3 PL, 52pts]: Guardian Spear [12pts]
. Custodian [3 PL, 52pts]: Guardian Spear [12pts]

+ Elites [75 PL, 1,299pts] +

Allarus Custodians [23 PL, 395pts]
. Allarus Custodian [5 PL, 79pts]: Castellan Axe [14pts]
. Allarus Custodian [5 PL, 79pts]: Castellan Axe [14pts]
. Allarus Custodian [5 PL, 79pts]: Castellan Axe [14pts]
. Allarus Custodian [5 PL, 79pts]: Castellan Axe [14pts]
. Allarus Custodian [5 PL, 79pts]: Castellan Axe [14pts]

Allarus Custodians [23 PL, 395pts]
. Allarus Custodian [5 PL, 79pts]: Castellan Axe [14pts]
. Allarus Custodian [5 PL, 79pts]: Castellan Axe [14pts]
. Allarus Custodian [5 PL, 79pts]: Castellan Axe [14pts]
. Allarus Custodian [5 PL, 79pts]: Castellan Axe [14pts]
. Allarus Custodian [5 PL, 79pts]: Castellan Axe [14pts]

Allarus Custodians [23 PL, 395pts]
. Allarus Custodian [5 PL, 79pts]: Castellan Axe [14pts]
. Allarus Custodian [5 PL, 79pts]: Castellan Axe [14pts]
. Allarus Custodian [5 PL, 79pts]: Castellan Axe [14pts]
. Allarus Custodian [5 PL, 79pts]: Castellan Axe [14pts]
. Allarus Custodian [5 PL, 79pts]: Castellan Axe [14pts]

Vexillus Praetor [6 PL, 114pts]: Misericordia [4pts], Vexilla Magnifica [30pts]

++ Total: [115 PL, 8CP, 2,000pts] ++

Whats the point of running a squad of guards with swords, but without shields? Just to fill up a battalion?

Have you been able to pull off some teleport homer shenanigans with your terminator or do you just port them via standard deep strike and hope that they make their charges?

Prob with that many Allarus is you can’t DS them all.

Yeah, I certainly wouldn't play 3 squads when 1 of them has to walk across the table.
Rather spend those points somewhere else.

Some reviews of new units:
Sagittarium Guard: 8/10. Played a few games with these guys, and they are a solid Swiss Army knife of a unit (as long as you give them misericordias). They just quietly do work every turn, and in a list with bikes and terminators they just kind of get ignored. They are great at dealing with hordes and chaff units though I definitely missed the fly from my normal all-bikes/grav Tanks. One of the big benefits is the ability to use the ever-vigilant strat, which was largely wasted on normal guard or allarus. My main complaint is that with only 1 damage in shooting and melee they aren’t as efficient against Primaris as I would like though I had them shred normal marines. Definitely worth building a shooty battalion around.

Agmatus bikes: 7/10. Pulse lasers are great, though a bit situational. Definitely valuable in the space marine matchup, downsides are the heavy weapons and D3 damage since you’ll often be moving them. That said, starting at BS2 makes it not so bad and explaining them as “4 shot battlecannons” probably draws them a bit of extra firepower. Because they have fly they don’t get bogged down, but I miss 36 hurricane bolter shots so they are a bit situational with everything else I have in my list which bike unit to take.

Orion: 6/10. Works as a bunker, has a lot of shots. However, there is no shooting list which can’t down this thing in 2 turns even with -2 to hit for one of those. Screens will still keep you from getting your cargo from getting where it needs to. It draws all the shots, which can be nice but it’s still a big chunk of your points in an expensive army. Again on this one, wish more of the guns were D2 to make it a better elite-killing weapon.

Played a Space Wolf player last night, and I had TOTALLY forgotten they existed. I hadn't even seen their models since early 2018 and even then it was only one player.

Long story short, got stomped. I wasn't prepared for someone who wanted to get into melee more than me. I mean, I've been up against daemon lists that are 100% melee, but their "True Grit" strat that lets them shoot all their bolters in melee as Pistol 2 really got me.

I wasn't prepared. Is there a best way to counter Wulfen/Grey Hunter lists as Custodes?

 FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
Played a Space Wolf player last night, and I had TOTALLY forgotten they existed. I hadn't even seen their models since early 2018 and even then it was only one player.

Long story short, got stomped. I wasn't prepared for someone who wanted to get into melee more than me. I mean, I've been up against daemon lists that are 100% melee, but their "True Grit" strat that lets them shoot all their bolters in melee as Pistol 2 really got me.

I wasn't prepared. Is there a best way to counter Wulfen/Grey Hunter lists as Custodes?

The only thing in the Space Wolves Roster that could scare custodians in melee i can think of is Wulfen and Thunderwolf Cavalry.

This would be a case where i'd say your shooting gets dedicated to taking down whatever transport the Wulfen are in, and then blasting them off the board with either shooting or an assault.

Using a lot of tanglefoot grenades (movement and charge phase) can limit both these units mobility badly. You just need to dictate when and where you will engage them. Wulfen if they don't have storm shields are not by any means hard to kill.

Right, so they get +1 attacks in the charge phase, or if they are charged, they hit on 3s, and wound on 3s with their frost weapons. Each one carries about 3 attacks, and they each deal 2 damage. There are a lot more of them than of mine. They have a fight first thing, can't remember if it was psychic or just that unit, and they get extremely strong the more you kill. Their Primaris are even worse.

Maybe he just rolled well and I rolled crap, but it was only a 1k game so that likely had a lot to do with it.

Frost weapons are *NOT* D2. They're D1 souped up power weapons. The only way they get an army wide fight first is to kill one of your characters with their warlord, and I have no sodding clue what they used to beef up their lads as squad sizes drop.

In short, it sounds like you got rolled cause rules were misplayed. Custodians should have zero issues slicing grey hunters to ribbons. Wulfen can be an issue, but thats where you put your shooting.

Since hes talking about Wulfen I assume he means the Great Frost Axe which is d3 damage.

Plus they get to fight back when they die in cc.

Sad day for me. As you can tell by my lack of post I have decided to quit the army and 40k. I just can't work up the interest anymore and being burned so repeatedly by GW make decide to cut my losses and run. If anyone want my army its listed in the swap page.

I had a lot of fun doing battle reports with all of you and analyzing custodes. I wish you all the best and thank you for the fun times. Maybe Ill get back in later but a fond farewell for a least a good while from me.

Khadorstompy wrote:
Sad day for me. As you can tell by my lack of post I have decided to quit the army and 40k. I just can't work up the interest anymore and being burned so repeatedly by GW make decide to cut my losses and run. If anyone want my army its listed in the swap page.

I had a lot of fun doing battle reports with all of you and analyzing custodes. I wish you all the best and thank you for the fun times. Maybe Ill get back in later but a fond farewell for a least a good while from me.

Good luck on future hobbies! I wish you the best!

Khadorstompy wrote:
Sad day for me. As you can tell by my lack of post I have decided to quit the army and 40k. I just can't work up the interest anymore and being burned so repeatedly by GW make decide to cut my losses and run. If anyone want my army its listed in the swap page.

I had a lot of fun doing battle reports with all of you and analyzing custodes. I wish you all the best and thank you for the fun times. Maybe Ill get back in later but a fond farewell for a least a good while from me.

I find a lot of enjoyment in post here, theorizing, building armies, getting called an idiot, being told I'm stupid.....yeah F this place.

But seriously, I wish you the best, and hope you find something else that gives you the enjoyment you deserve!

 FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:

Custodian Guard Squad [8 PL, 141pts]
. Custodian [3 PL, 47pts]: Sentinel Blade [7pts]
. Custodian [3 PL, 47pts]: Sentinel Blade [7pts]
. Custodian [3 PL, 47pts]: Sentinel Blade [7pts]

I'm pretty sure that's not a legal unit. Custodian guard have to take their sentinel blades with a storm shield. Can't leave the shield out.

My book says any model may replace it's spear with a sentinel blade....any model NOT armed with a spear may take a shield.

I might have missed it though, please correct me. Also it's on the box cover as one of the models, so FWIW...

 FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
My book says any model may replace it's spear with a sentinel blade....any model NOT armed with a spear may take a shield.

I might have missed it though, please correct me. Also it's on the box cover as one of the models, so FWIW...

And this is why people bitch at you. Don't even mention that its the Index that allows this and the codex only lets you take a sword + shield.

Ah I see. So he's trying to exploit the index wargear flowchart.
Pretty sure it doesn't work that way. It only lets you take wargear that doesn't have a codex equivalent. Which isn't the case here.

I'm sure we could argue back and forth for a while over whether a combination of equipment being more restrictive in the codex counts as 'not having a codex equivalent'. But it's not an debate I really care enough to have. I was merely pointing out a list building error.
So I'll leave it at that.

Do you guys regularly give your warlord victor of the blood games? It obviously makes shield captains incredibly tanky, especially if you also give him superior creation. I just wonder if it is worth the 2 cp.

Tiberias wrote:
Do you guys regularly give your warlord victor of the blood games? It obviously makes shield captains incredibly tanky, especially if you also give him superior creation. I just wonder if it is worth the 2 cp.

It can be really good. If your warlord will be doing anything aside from providing reroll bubbles, I find it worthwhile. Its great on jetbike captains, eagle's eye terminator captains, and Trajann.
I generally deploy Trajann first, and then the character getting VOTBG, and then use the Moment Shackle to refund the CP, and basically get it for free.

Tiberias wrote:
Do you guys regularly give your warlord victor of the blood games? It obviously makes shield captains incredibly tanky, especially if you also give him superior creation. I just wonder if it is worth the 2 cp.

I stopped shortly into playing the army. The cps I spent were almost always more impactful in other positions

To make it more clear, a jetbike captain is usually rerolling hits and wounds already and so it’s utility is mostly is saves, but you are already so tanky that it is unlikely the enemy will burn through your saves to kill you and to the reroll only gets a few uses a game, if any

don't forget it also lets you reroll his damage roll. Pretty useful in finishing off a character you don't quite kill with a 1 damage roll.

It easily pays for itself in rerolls over the course of a game. Even if you don't use it on turn one, its potentially worth 10 CP in a 6 turn game.

 Eihnlazer wrote:
don't forget it also lets you reroll his damage roll. Pretty useful in finishing off a character you don't quite kill with a 1 damage roll.

It easily pays for itself in rerolls over the course of a game. Even if you don't use it on turn one, its potentially worth 10 CP in a 6 turn game.

There is a difference between 'is it worth the CP' and 'Do I need the CP elsewhere'.
Are those potential 10 re-rolls going to win you the game, or is that extra Stooping Dive/Avenge the Fallen or Tanglefoot Grenade going to have more impact?

Yes Victor of the Bloodgames is very good value over the course of a game but I find that most games I would rather have a key stratagem to use then a couple of re-rolls on a Shield Captain.

 Eihnlazer wrote:
don't forget it also lets you reroll his damage roll. Pretty useful in finishing off a character you don't quite kill with a 1 damage roll.

It easily pays for itself in rerolls over the course of a game. Even if you don't use it on turn one, its potentially worth 10 CP in a 6 turn game.

No damage rolls, just hit, wound and save rolls according to the strat description.

Have played a few games in the past with a pretty skilled Tau player. He often takes part in tournaments, and while I've never done so (and have no real urge to), we've played some real competitive games for us both to practice. He generally runs the following list:

HQ

Ethereal
Shadowsun
Cadre Fireblade
Quad-Fusion Coldstar OR Quad-Ion Commander

Troops
6x5 Fire Warriors

Elites
3x Sa'cea Marksmen
2x Riptides w. HBC

Fast Attack
3x6 Shield Drones
2x5 Pathfinders

Heavy Support
3x Broadsides w. HYMP + SMS

Now I've run every list I own against it and I've only been able to beat it once, that was down to really gakky deployment on his part letting my Leviathan mow down his Broadsides while he survived the Quad-Fusion. My other lists including Raven Castellan Knights are just useless due to his standard tactics:

1. Castle up and use Kau'yon
2. Advance Broadsides into LoS.
3. Marksmen pop 3 Markerlights on target of choice, pretty much guaranteed to hit thanks to Sa'cea. Use Uplinked Markerlight for extra counters.
4. Command and Control Node destroys everything.

We have a game planned on Monday in which I'm hoping to give my new Custodes units a go. Here's what I have planned.

HQ
Trajan Valoris
Dawneagle Captain w. Auric Aquillas

Troops
5x Sagittarum w. Misericordias
2x3 Custodes w. SB/SS and 2x GS

Fast Attack
3x Vertus Praetors

Heavy Support
2x Caladius w. Arachnus Cannon
Telemon w. 2x Arachnus


I also have at my disposal, should I swap out anything for any of these?
3x Venatari
3x Aquilon Terminators
5x Wardens
2x Vexilla
2x Achillus Dreadnoughts
Orion Dropship

Is this list viable against them at all? What tactics should I be going for, and what should I avoid?

First of all, you need a vexilla magnifica. Even with -1 gradually getting nerfed it still has a lot of utility, especially against native BS4-5 armies. Your strategy basically needs to be the following: start as far away as you can, then spend the first 2 turns killing all his shield drones and pathfinders with your caladius. Nothing in that Tau list shoots as far as they do, so out range him. Once the drones are dead, kill the broadsides from range (bring the Telemon into range if he isn’t). As he moves up the table, move up your infantry but keep them out of LOS so he’s forced to move within charge range if he advances. If you’re playing ITC, sitting on more objectives than him while staying out of range and getting kills will win you the game but if you need to kill the other suits then just play the waiting game. There’s a very real possibility that the real bloody fighting will happen turn 5 and 6 if you’ve been real cagey, so make sure enough of your army is alive for when that happens.

In short, kill the pathfinders (get rid of marker lights) and kill the drones, cause until you do you you won’t be able to hurt anything else. Stay out of range.

 greyknight12 wrote:
First of all, you need a vexilla magnifica. Even with -1 gradually getting nerfed it still has a lot of utility, especially against native BS4-5 armies. Your strategy basically needs to be the following: start as far away as you can, then spend the first 2 turns killing all his shield drones and pathfinders with your caladius. Nothing in that Tau list shoots as far as they do, so out range him. Once the drones are dead, kill the broadsides from range (bring the Telemon into range if he isn’t). As he moves up the table, move up your infantry but keep them out of LOS so he’s forced to move within charge range if he advances. If you’re playing ITC, sitting on more objectives than him while staying out of range and getting kills will win you the game but if you need to kill the other suits then just play the waiting game. There’s a very real possibility that the real bloody fighting will happen turn 5 and 6 if you’ve been real cagey, so make sure enough of your army is alive for when that happens.

In short, kill the pathfinders (get rid of marker lights) and kill the drones, cause until you do you you won’t be able to hurt anything else. Stay out of range.

In that case what should I drop to get the Vexilla? Swapping out the 2 Arachnus for Illiastus Cannons on the Caladius and dropping a Sagittarum would work.

Additionally, is it worth swapping out one of the Custodes units for another squad of Sagittarum?

Lastly, one idea I had in mind would be to proxy the Aquilon Terminators as Allarus and drop them in. Use Concussive Grenades to deny Overwatch for 3 units, then charge in, at least locking the Broadsides up for a turn. Bit risky as if they fail the charge they're pretty screwed.

I'd not rely on a single squad of allarus making the necessary 9 inch charge. It is also easy for the tau player to screen his valuable units with small drone units. So even if you pull off the charge, you can only make it into a unit of drones, and next turn they get shot to bits