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 greyknight12 wrote:

 FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
Anyone wanna bet the next change the Custodes get is to make the Guardian's Spears Assault 3?

What makes you think Custodes are getting any changes at all? We were defined by the grav tank, and that got changed but outside of a few appearances here and there we're kind of under the radar now.

Not to be insensitive, but the only influential person who really cared about Custodes as a faction is dead.

I'm not following, who are you referencing?

With the recent buff's to marines, custodes need some love.

We are severely outgunned by most armies now and most custodes lists ive watched and played myself either get tabled or have 2 models left on the board by turn 6.

We cant expect any major points changes (even though we need almost a 4 points per model reduction for everything), but i'd like super-traits for the different Shield Hosts of custodes added at least.
This is in addition to our normal +1 invun and works on our vehicles too.



Good options:

Solar Guard (the crusaders) - +1 attack on the charge and when charged. Colsolidation/Heroic intervention range increased by 2".

Shadow Keepers (the watchmen) - Ignore cover.

Aquillon Shield (the outnumbered) - cannot be wounded on natural 1's and 2's.

Emmisaries (the heralds) -Add +1 to the moral check roll and Any casualties from moral by enemy units are doubled.

@Fezzik Geoff Robinson was a huge Custodes fan and his success with them is why the Caladius grav tank became famous. He passed away not too long ago. Really good guy too.

Regarding buffs, I think the main thing we need is a better way to successfully make charges. We have a lot of melee ability with exactly one model that can re-roll charges, and only with a relic. We need bonuses, advance+charge, more re-rolls, or something. Getting into melee is hard.
Some of our strategems can come probably down in cost or be innate abilities of Custodes units.
I think that making our tanks stronger is reasonable, giving them +1 T, 2+ save or a 4++ would keep our firepower from getting shot off the table.
It’s hard to buff the Custodes defensive stat line without making them ridiculous, going to 3++ or a 5+++ would probably be too much. A universal 6+++ wouldn’t be bad.

I agree I would like to get better charge chance on a personal level, but boy I gotta say custodes are scary if they make the charge more often than 50% of the time.


I'd honestly not mind just having a 7" move on all my basic infantry and reroll 1's on the charge dice as a free upgrade though. Its a very minor tweak that would be very welcome and not really warrant a points increase.

 Eihnlazer wrote:


Aquillon Shield (the outnumbered) - cannot be wounded on natural 1's and 2's.

Given we have toughness 5, that seems like by far the weakest trait... only effective against str 10+

Ehh, I get charged by deamon engines a lot and they tend to wound me on 2's.

Mabey add on a 6+++ to that one?

 Eihnlazer wrote:
I agree I would like to get better charge chance on a personal level, but boy I gotta say custodes are scary if they make the charge more often than 50% of the time.


I'd honestly not mind just having a 7" move on all my basic infantry and reroll 1's on the charge dice as a free upgrade though. Its a very minor tweak that would be very welcome and not really warrant a points increase.

Custodes are no more scary than smash captains, lord discordants, and knights on the charge (for their points), and all those have a way to make their charge more reliable. In fact, the best comparison is probably Assault centurions, and those have extremely reliable charge mechanics with White Scars and Raven Guard plus a fight twice strategem from the vanilla codex. Dedicated assault units across the game usually have some sort of speed boost mechanic, at least the good ones do.

Our problem is damage. Marine access to fixed three damage melee weapons makes marine characters vastly better at taking down tanks/lords of war than Custodes captains.

I came up with a few ideas spitballing. But this might just belong in the proposed rules section.

Add <Talons of the Emperor> Keyword to Assassins and SoS.

Solar Watch - The Crusading Host - Add +1 to the number of attacks models from this shield host have when charging or being charged. Add +2 inches to consolidation and heroic intervention ranges.

The Shadowkeepers - The Unseen Blades - Units of this Shield Host ignore cover with ranged weapons, and count as being in cover if outside 12" inches.

Aquilon Shield - The Shield of Terra - Units of this Shield Host may advance, and treat any weapons they wield as assault weapons, and may fall back from combat, and shoot at a -1 to hit. Units of this Shield Host add +1 to hit on overwatch rolls.

The Dread Host - Rapid Response - Units of this Shield Host may advance and still charge, and always strike first, unless an enemy unit has a similar ability, in which case, alternate units.

The Gilded Fist - Indomitable Host - Terminator Units of this Shield Host may roll 3d6 to charge on a turn they deep strike, and have a 5+ Feel No Pain save.

To add a bit of uniqueness back to the custodes I'd like to see first turn deepstrike return for custodes, FGLTC should be 1cp per unit to take advantage of this, possible strat/relic that gives a 3d6 charge, 5+++ Vs mortal, 6+++ across the board.

1st turn DS wouldn't really address our issues. We would still fail charges and do ineffective damage to big targets. Also, it would reinforce the "first turn victory" style of play that is rapidly becoming the norm it seems, which I personally dislike.

To each their own, but I would rather see us get some form of rule where we can just straight up ignore defenses. Like, our axes invalidate invuln saves, or our attacks against infantry always do max damage. .

If thunder hammers are flat 3 dmg there is no reason our giant axes can't be.

I’d be happy with:

- axes get flat 3D
- terminator units can use a stratagem to get plus 1 to invulnerable save (to max 3+)

That would be huge, without being too much. (Of course I’d also like shock assault... but I’m not greedy)

A friend sent me this snapshot, it’s pretty blurry but looks like not a lot of stuff is changing for Custodes.

I would advise everyone here not to get their hopes up too much. Wishlisting is cool and all but if you wish for too much you'll be disappointed.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

 greyknight12 wrote:
A friend sent me this snapshot, it’s pretty blurry but looks like not a lot of stuff is changing for Custodes.

Yes all the base cost for the FW stuff seems to cost the same. Aquillon may have changed not sure can't read.

With the recent rules update I’m guessing FW Custodes at least are going to stay the same. And we’re so far off anyone’s radar that I doubt we’ll be seeing any changes at all.

How would you guys use the venatari. My awsome best friend got me a squad for my birthday and I've been playing them in every game, but they did not perform very well for me. I always played a squad with two pistols and one lance, because that is how I built them.
I know most people don't play them, but I'd like to make them work somehow

Tiberias wrote:
How would you guys use the venatari. My awsome best friend got me a squad for my birthday and I've been playing them in every game, but they did not perform very well for me. I always played a squad with two pistols and one lance, because that is how I built them.
I know most people don't play them, but I'd like to make them work somehow

I built all mine with pistols, but I don’t think that will make too much of a difference. I deepstrike mine to grab and objective or kill backfield units. If you can catch a character they are solid, but are good at just putting another tough threat in a different place for your opponent to deal with.

Aquilon now 60
Caladius now 100

Regular units cost as follow
60
40
43
90
100
150
90
205
80
80
90

Ranged weapons
0
11
2
9
6
10
23
22
15
7
2
17
50

Main things I see are storm shields (non-characters) down to 5 points, Axes down to 11 and all terminators down 5. A basic warden w/axe now costs 54 pts, a shield guard costs 52. The+1 attack banner is now 20 pts, and misericordia are now 3 pts.

 RenegadeKorps wrote:
Aquilon now 60
Caladius now 100

Regular units cost as follow
60
40
43
90
100
150
90
205
80
80
90

Ranged weapons
0
11
2
9
6
10
23
22
15
7
2
17
50

Did the spear go down too, or is the axe cheaper now? (Hope the spear dropped too!)

(Edit to make clear that this was in response to “axes being 11 points”)

both axes and spear got down in points. Do you guys think the overall changes in chapter approved will help footstodes? Or are we stuck playing tanks to be somewhat competitive?

It’ll help... but maybe not enough

It’s going to depend a lot on what happens to the other armies. In a vacuum the changes certainly help, but the reason people take tanks is because they are super efficient at killing things and simply hiding in cover doesn’t win you the game. With enough terrain Footsotdes do fine, with the attack bonus being cheaper I could see a couple big blocks of Wardens or Aquilons dropping in to menace big chunks of the board.

Here is a video were you can see the points changes from CA19 with time stamps in hte comments. In case you missed it the rumors thread.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=1&v=xiKk117xLoo&feature=emb_logo

Do fottstodes really do fine even with terrain? May it's just me but I find it really hard to get our regular guys across the board and even if they do make it to the enemy they do too little in my opinion. For a super elite melee focused army, we have very few attacks.
The only infantry thing that hits good in melee are the wardens and the aquilons in my opinion and those don't make it into melee more often than not because they fail their deepstrike charge.

I only play frendly games with my buddies, but all of my last games were very frustrating. I don't mind losing if the game was fun and had interesting moments. There is nothing fun getting shot off the table by a tau player in turn 2....might as well not have played at all.

The points changes helped my current list out a good bit.

I gained 105 points or so and daggers on all my spear boys.


I can upgrade my termy captain to a bike captain and take another squad of guard, along with a few more blings, or I can just add a pallas grav assault and take a plasma pistol on one of my company commanders.

All Custodes points changes from CA19. If it is not listed it didn't change.

Trajann -5 to 180
Allarus: -5 to 60
Shield captain: -10 to 90
Shield captain in ATA: -10 to 100
Land Raider: -12 to 205
Vexilus praetor in ATA: -10 to 100

Castellan axe: -3 to 11
Guardian spear: -3 to 9
Assault cannon -2 to 23
Multi-melta: -4 to 22
Dread combat weapon -20 to 20
misercordia: -1 to 3
Storm shield(other models): -5 to 5
Vexilla Imperius: -30 to 20

Aquilon -5 to 60
Caladius: -20 to 100

Telemon caestus (single/pair): +10 to 30/40
Adrasite spear: +1 to 13
Arachnus storm cannon: -5 to 40
Iliastus accelerator culverin -10 to 25
Infernus incinerator: +1 to 16
Lastrum bolt cannon +2 to 12
Twin iliastus accelerator cannon + 10 to 90
Twin las-pulser: + 5 to 40

source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8YPr_fspC_I
Time stamps:
Codex: 21:50
FW: 36:50

So now Aquillons cost as much as allarus? Who thought that was a good idea? SMH.

Telemon Fists now back to higher costs than the storm cannon....

Landraider is now slightly less worthless. Venerable melta dreads look....better?

 FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
So now Aquillons cost as much as allarus? Who thought that was a good idea? SMH.
no they don't
Allarus with axe are 71 now
Aqilon qith bolter and fist are 78 now

Telemon Fists now back to higher costs than the storm cannon....

Landraider is now slightly less worthless. Venerable melta dreads look....better?
Venerable melta dreads looks better yes but still not as good as the achillus

Since they did not nerf the Ares is will get one and replace the Castellan in my list.