Codex Adeptus Custodes: By His will alone

Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:

No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
Times and dates in your local timezone.
Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.

If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

**FezzikDaBullgryn**

Ebay. Tons of assembled, badly painted Custodes models back from when they launched and no one foresaw them being crap for most of the edition.

**dan2026**

Am I right in thinking Custodes Terminators don't get bolter discipline in any form?
So in order to get their double rapid fire they have to always be in half range?

**JNAProductions**

You are correct.

**raddman33**

I would like to add in a Supreme Command Detachment to my Custodes. I am ponder two, and am looking for some feedback.

The first would be blood angels. It would consist of two smash captains with jump packs, chaplin with jump pack, and Lt with Jump pack. This ball of killiness has amazing buffs to charging and can ignore overwatch. The two captains should be able to drop whatever they touch.

The second would be black templars. Same make up. This group also gets great buffs to the charge. They have the ability to keep units locked in combat.

Both would be used to counter the ridiculous marine meta that I am running into.

Thoughts?

**FezzikDaBullgryn**

You won't have enough CP's to justify the Smashys to their full extent, and your opponent will see through the gold and just kill anything with red on it. The BT I have no idea, I have never played them or against them. Maybe?

Goldens don't really synergize well, unless it's cheap stuff. Smash Captains aren't cheap.

**Dantioch**

What do you fine people think about using a battalion of the new sisters of battle as objective holders and to give us those extra commands points. A squad of sisters isn't that expensive, puts out some fire and with the order that ignores AP-1 they could be quite durable. Their abundance of melta weapons could also help with AT.

**greyknight12**

Dantioch wrote:
What do you fine people think about using a battalion of the new sisters of battle as objective holders and to give us those extra commands points. A squad of sisters isn't that expensive, puts out some fire and with the order that ignores AP-1 they could be quite durable. Their abundance of melta weapons could also help with AT.

How many points are we talking? Melta is a nice add.
I'll do you one better, I've thought about a battalion of grey knights. They can deepstrike, dump out bolter shots and hit reasonably hard in close combat, plus would provide a bubble of psychic denies (at a +1 no less).

**tneva82**

greyknight12 wrote:
Dantioch wrote:
What do you fine people think about using a battalion of the new sisters of battle as objective holders and to give us those extra commands points. A squad of sisters isn't that expensive, puts out some fire and with the order that ignores AP-1 they could be quite durable. Their abundance of melta weapons could also help with AT.

How many points are we talking? Melta is a nice add.
I'll do you one better, I've thought about a battalion of grey knights. They can deepstrike, dump out bolter shots and hit reasonably hard in close combat, plus would provide a bubble of psychic denies (at a +1 no less).

9 pts per sister, min squad 5, can take 2 special weapons for squad. 45pts for basic canoness hq, 37pts for missionary(1 per detachment) that gives extra attack aura(canoness reroll 1).

So 225 with 2 canoness for bare bone bat. Add special weapons(melta, flamer, stormbolter) to taste. And you get miracle dice fun with them. Melta squads become scarier to charge if you can quarantee a hit

**Tiberias**

Does anybody still play dual telemon in their lists or is it just caladius tanks now?

**Dantioch**

tneva82 wrote:
greyknight12 wrote:
Dantioch wrote:
What do you fine people think about using a battalion of the new sisters of battle as objective holders and to give us those extra commands points. A squad of sisters isn't that expensive, puts out some fire and with the order that ignores AP-1 they could be quite durable. Their abundance of melta weapons could also help with AT.

How many points are we talking? Melta is a nice add.
I'll do you one better, I've thought about a battalion of grey knights. They can deepstrike, dump out bolter shots and hit reasonably hard in close combat, plus would provide a bubble of psychic denies (at a +1 no less).

9 pts per sister, min squad 5, can take 2 special weapons for squad. 45pts for basic canoness hq, 37pts for missionary(1 per detachment) that gives extra attack aura(canoness reroll 1).

So 225 with 2 canoness for bare bone bat. Add special weapons(melta, flamer, stormbolter) to taste. And you get miracle dice fun with them. Melta squads become scarier to charge if you can quarantee a hit

That's what I had in mind, maybe a squad of retributors for some extra AT or seraphim with inferno pistols if you like deep striking more. Small squads of seraphim could also be useful for fast objective grabbing.

**tneva82**

Seraphim can also be used to chaff clear. With 1cp stratagem twin bolt pistols shoot once in move phase, another in shoot phase(so 4 bolt pistol shot per model) or 2 hand flamers shoot once in move phase.

Don't recall wording on stratagem could you use it to clear chaff before next unit deep strikes. I could see that useful to custodians if legal

**greyknight12**

Tiberias wrote:
Does anybody still play dual telemon in their lists or is it just caladius tanks now?

I haven't used any Telemons in a while. I've thought about it though; with the accelerator culverin putting out the same shooting as the caladius you can trade range for durability. The problem is that you're trading ALOT of range for that durability, like 26" of range if you still want to be BS2+. If you can mitigate that though, +1 to toughness and all your saves with 6+++ is totally worth the 32 extra points. The fist is tempting with Centurions running around cause of flat 4 dmg, though you don't have enough attacks to solo a blob. As far as their old "anti-tank" loadout, it's just not worth it for me with only S8.

**Tiberias**

greyknight12 wrote:
Tiberias wrote:
Does anybody still play dual telemon in their lists or is it just caladius tanks now?

I haven't used any Telemons in a while. I've thought about it though; with the accelerator culverin putting out the same shooting as the caladius you can trade range for durability. The problem is that you're trading ALOT of range for that durability, like 26" of range if you still want to be BS2+. If you can mitigate that though, +1 to toughness and all your saves with 6+++ is totally worth the 32 extra points. The fist is tempting with Centurions running around cause of flat 4 dmg, though you don't have enough attacks to solo a blob. As far as their old "anti-tank" loadout, it's just not worth it for me with only S8.

Has anybody ever tried to play one telemon with twin illiastus (or one arachnus one illiastus) as a solid backline heavy fire base with a captain and a magnifica to babysit him and deepstrike another one with at least one fist (or even dual fists) to provide a massive threat to the enemy backline? Maybe even deepstrike him with a terminator captain for those sweet reroll 1s....

Not sure if this is any good, but the concept is appealing to me. Your opponent has to deal with both, which might provide a safer enviroment for you to maneuver the rest of your army where you want them without drawing too much focused fire?

**iGuy91**

Tiberias wrote:
greyknight12 wrote:
Tiberias wrote:
Does anybody still play dual telemon in their lists or is it just caladius tanks now?

I haven't used any Telemons in a while. I've thought about it though; with the accelerator culverin putting out the same shooting as the caladius you can trade range for durability. The problem is that you're trading ALOT of range for that durability, like 26" of range if you still want to be BS2+. If you can mitigate that though, +1 to toughness and all your saves with 6+++ is totally worth the 32 extra points. The fist is tempting with Centurions running around cause of flat 4 dmg, though you don't have enough attacks to solo a blob. As far as their old "anti-tank" loadout, it's just not worth it for me with only S8.

Has anybody ever tried to play one telemon with twin illiastus (or one arachnus one illiastus) as a solid backline heavy fire base with a captain and a magnifica to babysit him and deepstrike another one with at least one fist (or even dual fists) to provide a massive threat to the enemy backline? Maybe even deepstrike him with a terminator captain for those sweet reroll 1s....

Not sure if this is any good, but the concept is appealing to me. Your opponent has to deal with both, which might provide a safer enviroment for you to maneuver the rest of your army where you want them without drawing too much focused fire?

I actually run a Telemon Twins list in most of my games

Usually i run one with a fist/stormcannon, and the other as twin storm cannons. Pop them under the vexilla, and they become pretty obnoxious to shift. I usually keep Trajann sitting between them (Lets them reroll 1s to wound against non-vehicles if needed), with a squad of Sag Guard for my fire base turn 1.

**FezzikDaBullgryn**

Thing is, 5 attacks at flat 4 damage is overkill on anything under T7, and it likely won't make it into melee with an even half way intelligent opponent. Against T7/8, why are you spending almost 300pts to melee something? Nope, I'll load up on tanks, and still save on points.

I get that we are a melee army and all, but Twin Giant Fisto-Robotos running around punching opposing armies is a bad fever dream by a dev that clearly had ZERO experience playing 8th.

**iGuy91**

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
Thing is, 5 attacks at flat 4 damage is overkill on anything under T7, and it likely won't make it into melee with an even half way intelligent opponent. Against T7/8, why are you spending almost 300pts to melee something? Nope, I'll load up on tanks, and still save on points.

I get that we are a melee army and all, but Twin Giant Fisto-Robotos running around punching opposing armies is a bad fever dream by a dev that clearly had ZERO experience playing 8th.

One thing I found that a gun/fist telemon is very good at handling is invictor warsuits, it will reliably delete one a turn, keeping your shooty elements shooting.

**FezzikDaBullgryn**

So will the Illastus Cannons. Or the Storm Cannons, or the Jetbikes.

But my point is why are you wasting a turn with your DSing Murderbot on T6 targets? Why not go after the Executioners, the Levis, or the characters?

In the words of Ian Malcomb: "Everyone was so preoccupied with whether or not they could, no one stopped to ask if they should."

Telemons with Fists need to be pointed at the biggest meanest thing on the field. From a design standpoint, they are our biggest and best option against Knights without getting an Ares involved.

**Eihnlazer**

A full knight list will always be a bad matchup for custodes. If we build specifically to counter them, we can, but loose againgst any other army.

And if we build a generalist efficient list, we have nothing that can handle knights well.

You have to really just hope you don't go up againgst them at a tourney.

I'd love to run my aquillons, but I cant take both them and my calidius grav tanks in the same list in a workable way.

The aquillon termies are not very useful againgst anything other than knights and vehicle parking lots. They are too easy to kill for their points. If there was someway to make sure they had a 5+++ or a 3+ save all the time they would be worth it, but atm they just melt without making their points back.

**FezzikDaBullgryn**

Aquillons and Tanks are the most general units in our makeup, and they are generally must-takes. You can Sub Telemons for tanks, but you hurt your ability to sub for hordes.

**nordsturmking**

Eihnlazer wrote:
A full knight list will always be a bad matchup for custodes. If we build specifically to counter them, we can, but loose againgst any other army.

And if we build a generalist efficient list, we have nothing that can handle knights well.

You have to really just hope you don't go up againgst them at a tourney.

I'd love to run my aquillons, but I cant take both them and my calidius grav tanks in the same list in a workable way.

The aquillon termies are not very useful againgst anything other than knights and vehicle parking lots. They are too easy to kill for their points. If there was someway to make sure they had a 5+++ or a 3+ save all the time they would be worth it, but atm they just melt without making their points back.

I disagree. With FW units we are pretty good at killing knights. I always build my list so that it can take out knight per turn BC a lot of players played them here. Now not so much anymore but now many play lots of vehicles. So the core of my list is now like this

Trajann
biker captain
Vexilla with axe
2 Caladius with TIAC
1 Caladius with Blaze
Ares

That's 1516 points so you could make it a battalion by adding 3x3 Guards/Sag or bring a melee punch with 6 Aquilon or bring even more firepower with 3 Pallas

**iGuy91**

How do you guys run your Vexilla nowadays?

Do you think putting a storm shield on him is overkill, considering most of the time they're already -1 to hit, and have a 4++ invuln, and 2+ armor against snipers?

**nordsturmking**

iGuy91 wrote:
How do you guys run your Vexilla nowadays?

Do you think putting a storm shield on him is overkill, considering most of the time they're already -1 to hit, and have a 4++ invuln, and 2+ armor against snipers?

normaly with the axe but. If i expect a sniper heavy meta i'll put a SS on him and if i play against many SM sniper stuff i'll give him the 5 FNP.

**FezzikDaBullgryn**

If your opponent is worth their models, they will hyper focus on the flag or your Heavy model. That being said, I make them cheap as possible while still having a shooting attack. Spear4me.

**iGuy91**

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
If your opponent is worth their models, they will hyper focus on the flag or your Heavy model. That being said, I make them cheap as possible while still having a shooting attack. Spear4me.

You know, the Vexilla might in that case be a good selection to give the 'Gatekeeper' relic spear, gives him a whole custodian guard squad's worth of firepower, and good overwatch abilities if he is in danger

**KGYM**

Hey guys!

I need your opinion in choosing an army and a playing style for an escalation league. My two armies are custodes and IG, and for the love of god, I can't choose between them. The league is escalation, 500 base, plus 250 every round until 1500 in 5th. Missions are custom, based on the narrative, but generally objective based. Everyone has 11 CP, detachments are not used (1 HQ 2 troop minimum, that's it), rule of 3, fixed warlord, no LoW, armies must be built on the previous one, so the escalation means expansion of previous list. Also, units with FLY will not be able to capture - this might be huge for jetbikes.

Do you have any insights on how should I narrow down my search for a list I'd be successful with? Jetbikes are out of the question at low levels since they cannot capture, so it seems to me that I'll certainly struggle under 1000 with only literal footstodes.

Thank you for your help in advance.

**FezzikDaBullgryn**

Um...IG. Custodes are disastrously weak in lowpoint games. We can't fit a Battalion in 500pt games. IG, Mortars Mortars Mortars.

**Audustum**

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
Um...IG. Custodes are disastrously weak in lowpoint games. We can't fit a Battalion in 500pt games. IG, Mortars Mortars Mortars.

Battalions are way less important if everyone has 11CP by fiat and the only detachment is 1 HQ and 2 troops.

Trajann + 2 Saggitarum with Misericordias are like 498 and would be crazy durable at 500.

**Spartacus**

So after being overseas for a year I've managed to get in a few games since getting home, including one with my Custodes. I wanted to try out a gimmicky idea I had dreamt up while away and somehow it worked amazingly.

Supreme Cmd:
Sheild Captain Allarus with Axe
3 Shield Captains with Sword and Board

Vanguard:
Valoris
Sheild Captain Allarus with Axe
Vexilus Praetor - Magnifica Banner
Vexilus Praetor - Imperius Banner (+1 A)
9 Wardens with Spears
2 Telemon Dreadnoughts, Dual Stormcannons

As you might guess the idea is to advance all characters behind the Telemons, then drop the Wardens with the teleport homer once I hit the lines. Forcing enemy guns to shoot at -1 to hit Telemons for a turn or 2 should limit some of the incoming damage, thanks to how durable they are for the points. I still wasn't expecting much success against my friends Leman Russ spam list with such a slow list on a mostly open table. There was cover but no LOS blocking terrain really.

Spoiler:

I'm just shocked overall at how well this fun list did against what I used to consider a super tough matchup. My opponent made a few tactical errors which allowed to me move up faster and lock up his tanks, but in general the rolls were pretty even etc, and the terrain certainly favored the Guard. I'd never done so well against IG parking lot before even when using Bike Spam. Telemons are 100% worth it even after the nerfs, they held their own in shooting against LRBT commanders in spite of the human shield role I pressed them into. Warden bombs are absolutely beastly at 55 points per model. And our characters have such combat efficiency that you don't really lose much punch by spamming them in place of squads. I'm keen to go up against our resident Imperial Fists player next and see how they handle shooty marines.

**greyknight12**

I just came up with a similar, but equally troll-tastic idea:

Spoiler:

Basically hide/deepstrike the characters, then either deploy or deepstrike the allarus depending on terrain. Pop “unleash the lions” and have 9 dudes body-blocking as my characters run around and grab objectives or kill things. I’d plan on 2 of the bikes getting a 3++, undecided if swapping a sword captain out for a -1 vexilla is worth it (just to make the termies more obnoxious).

**FezzikDaBullgryn**

Call me wrong, but I don't think your seperate Allarus get Character protection just because they are alone. If you wipe out 9 guys in a 10 man guard squad, that last guy doesn't become a character. OFcourse I may have totally misread your intent, but Characters have to be unique, or carry the keyword. Hence your Allarus are just now very small squads.

Also, I think you can split them once, not 9 times. Can we get a confirmation on this? It's the main reason I've never used it, because it doesn't make them into characters, and it can onlu split a squad into two other squads.