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See? I like using the Flamer squads to take down big tagets. Nothing says hello like 10d6 autohitting shots of S4 D1.

If they made the great swords +2 to strength I could see it, Maybe? But S4 melee units is just worthless.

Looks like we will be featured in war of the spider with assassins and SOS. Guess we should keep our ears peeled for rumors.

Ewwww....

Since the custodes are going to be featured in a book with four factions I am a little worried that the "only" thing we are going to get is a sisters of silence integration.
Don't get me wrong, finally being able to use the sisters is great, but we really need some updated to our core stuff....

I'm with you. I'm worried the updates will be very minimal.

Do we? We are already the best Melee Imperium faction, the hardest to kill at just base stats, we have the best Dreadnaugt, some of the best tanks in the game, the best flying super-heavy, and our terminators not only get free deepstrike but can one shot knights. Our Jetbikes are eldar wetdreams.

Our biggest drawback is cost, and that won't get fixed in this book unless they make the SoS Troop choices, which would never happen. I don't see this book doing anything other than what other lesser factions have gotten. A few meaningless Characters. We need a psyker unit. I would love to see "Talons of the Emperor" to include the Inquisition or the SoB, but that would be utterly broken.

 FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
Do we? We are already the best Melee Imperium faction, the hardest to kill at just base stats, we have the best Dreadnaugt, some of the best tanks in the game, the best flying super-heavy, and our terminators not only get free deepstrike but can one shot knights. Our Jetbikes are eldar wetdreams.

Our biggest drawback is cost, and that won't get fixed in this book unless they make the SoS Troop choices, which would never happen. I don't see this book doing anything other than what other lesser factions have gotten. A few meaningless Characters. We need a psyker unit. I would love to see "Talons of the Emperor" to include the Inquisition or the SoB, but that would be utterly broken.

Much of this is no longer true. Space marine specialist flavors out fight, or out survive or out tank or out dreadnought custodes rather easily these days. Custodes need not cost reductions so much as they need stratagems to abuse in the way other factions do and a way to generate CPs. Like, say, transhuman resilience and such.

Also, lul, the best flying superheavy. Compared to... the thunderhawk? Fire raptor? It's like being the strongest kindergartner.

Custodes need real help to compete, particularly against SM and GK who are now better at us in every department. New Paladins make our units into a bit of a joke. Some new stratagems to help us out would go a long way but I’m not sure we’ll see the level of help GK just got. Fingers crossed.

My two cents

The meta of warfare in 40k from what I've seen, just like in real life, is armor screened by infantry. The only good Custodes lists I've seen have been triple caladiuses, vexillus magnifica, maybe valoris, and some screening guard or sisters infantry and armor. Maybe a knight or two. If you're running pure Custodes, your cheapest infantry units are 50-points per dude, and while they're fantastic heavy infantry, they can't screen. They don't come in bulk like Intercessors, and they aren't all that survivable once some heavy weapons start shooting or when they get rushed by Repentia. They also can't attack, because they're way too slow, even if you spend the points to deepstrike them, a good player with a non-elite army will have their backfield blocked off so that it takes the custodians a turn or two to get into close combat, if they survive long enough. Terminator bombs are just too expensive, and Land Raider rushes will get shut right down by an Executioner or a few Exorcists.

Really pumped for some love, especially as I usually run 3 or 4 assassins with my Custodes as well.


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If Custodes could get transhuman resilience on a wound of 1-4 I might actually cry

I'm personally hoping we get Shield-Host traits (chapter tactics) with a warlord trait, strategem and relic each. Sisters integration is almost a given. A re-roll charge would be huge for us because our actual biggest problem is *getting* in melee.

I primarily want Sisters to be troops because we need to take a lot to screen with them, but taking a lot of Elites handicaps CP potential. Sisters on Jetbikes would be sweet though...

Audustum wrote:
I'm personally hoping we get Shield-Host traits (chapter tactics) with a warlord trait, strategem and relic each. Sisters integration is almost a given. A re-roll charge would be huge for us because our actual biggest problem is *getting* in melee.

I primarily want Sisters to be troops because we need to take a lot to screen with them, but taking a lot of Elites handicaps CP potential. Sisters on Jetbikes would be sweet though...

I wouldn’t count on getting a huge number of new models

stratigo wrote:

Audustum wrote:
I'm personally hoping we get Shield-Host traits (chapter tactics) with a warlord trait, strategem and relic each. Sisters integration is almost a given. A re-roll charge would be huge for us because our actual biggest problem is *getting* in melee.

I primarily want Sisters to be troops because we need to take a lot to screen with them, but taking a lot of Elites handicaps CP potential. Sisters on Jetbikes would be sweet though...

I wouldn’t count on getting a huge number of new models

No, me either. I pin my hopes on FW for more Sisters support. Bike Sisters are a pipe dream. The rest is just rules though. I hope for rules.

Would it be too hopeful to Vilagors and Wytchseekers granted some type of buff? Extra 4" of flamer range, maybe the greatswords do 2 damage against infantry? Also, the sisters need some form of ++/+++ they are too squishy.

 FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
Would it be too hopeful to Vilagors and Wytchseekers granted some type of buff? Extra 4" of flamer range, maybe the greatswords do 2 damage against infantry? Also, the sisters need some form of ++/+++ they are too squishy.

I think it's O.K. if they're squish, but cheap. The bolter ones are appropriately priced. The swords and flamers both need to come down though. Hard in the case of the latter.

If they get more of a buff, like a faction purity buff since they don't currently have one, I'd happily take extra range on their null zone. Right now, they're only effective at stopping offensive psychic powers. If your opponent has a bunch of buff bots in the back, such as Eldar or TSons, they don't really anti-psker well.

Thing is, they are only good at the cost if they are troops. As elites they are worthless, I'd rather take assassins. Has anyone seen any chance they might be troops?

 FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
Thing is, they are only good at the cost if they are troops. As elites they are worthless, I'd rather take assassins. Has anyone seen any chance they might be troops?

They're troops in 30k. That's about the only basis for hoping out there I think.

Ok, well, if they become troops, we become broken as a faction. No one has 10pt null troops that target characters and do mortal wounds. So they have to be elites? Maybe a new weapon for the Vigilators? instead of bolters give them Stalkers? Raise them to 25pts?

Arent the generic Bolter SoS funtionaly identical to SoBs?

switching out Acts of Faith for a mini Null Zone?

 IHateNids wrote:
Arent the generic Bolter SoS funtionaly identical to SoBs?

switching out Acts of Faith for a mini Null Zone?

I think SoS are slightly faster (7" Move vs. 6") and they might have Psyk-Out Grenades. They can also target Characters that are Psykers even if not the closest.

Annnnnd that's it. Honestly, I don't think they'd be OP as troops. Most Psykers are staying out of range of them (hi TSons) or don't care about massed S4 AP0 1D shots at 31" threat range.

 FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
Ok, well, if they become troops, we become broken as a faction. No one has 10pt null troops that target characters and do mortal wounds. So they have to be elites? Maybe a new weapon for the Vigilators? instead of bolters give them Stalkers? Raise them to 25pts?

40k wouldnt implode, nor would Talons suddenly become unbeatable if SoS were allowed to be used as Troops.

Right, because Cheap mass troops has never caused an uproar in 40K. Query: would you think a SoS should cost more than a SM Scout or a IG trooper? If the answer is yes, then how much? I think less than a Space Marine classic, but more than a Sion. I Think 20PPM is entirely fair for the hell they would bring in the Meta. 300pt Battalions? Seems fair. May more so than currently 150pt Battalions that we are theorizing.

 FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
Right, because Cheap mass troops has never caused an uproar in 40K. Query: would you think a SoS should cost more than a SM Scout or a IG trooper? If the answer is yes, then how much? I think less than a Space Marine classic, but more than a Sion. I Think 20PPM is entirely fair for the hell they would bring in the Meta. 300pt Battalions? Seems fair. May more so than currently 150pt Battalions that we are theorizing.

Less than a SM Classic would be about 10 points.

Not 20.

A SM classic is 14ppm, and a scout is 11, so make these ladies 12?

12ppm, and alter the bolter variant to be slower, maybe lose the grenade if really pushed. Would that work?

as a necron player primarily, having my "cheap" battalion option roll in at 350, 300 doesn't seem bad, but I can see the appeal for a little cheaper if they dont do that much else.

12-15 points as troops is fine. Make the Prosecutors troops and the others elites or just all troops. Give them a few HQ choices and maybe an elite, rhinos as fast attack. I think that works.

How they fix Custodes is a whole other matter though. Codex storm shields and hide needs some work. Shame there’s little chance our FW units get looked at too

Malefic666 wrote:


How they fix Custodes is a whole other matter though. Codex storm shields and hide needs some work. Shame there’s little chance our FW units get looked at too

Do you think there's any chance we'll get FW units integrated in? We're probably the army that needs those units the most- the base codex is so barebones.


I hope they massively improve our Land Raider. I've always loved the model but it's so hard to justify taking as it's arguably the weakest unit in the codex+FW combined.

 IHateNids wrote:
A SM classic is 14ppm, and a scout is 11, so make these ladies 12?

12ppm, and alter the bolter variant to be slower, maybe lose the grenade if really pushed. Would that work?

as a necron player primarily, having my "cheap" battalion option roll in at 350, 300 doesn't seem bad, but I can see the appeal for a little cheaper if they dont do that much else.

Their closest rules analog, the basic Battle Sister, is 9ppm, has vastly better rules support from their codex, and access to better weapons. 10ppm for an un-customizeable bolter SoS who moves slightly faster and has the null rule is more than fine. The grenade is abysmal.


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 FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
Right, because Cheap mass troops has never caused an uproar in 40K. Query: would you think a SoS should cost more than a SM Scout or a IG trooper? If the answer is yes, then how much? I think less than a Space Marine classic, but more than a Sion. I Think 20PPM is entirely fair for the hell they would bring in the Meta. 300pt Battalions? Seems fair. May more so than currently 150pt Battalions that we are theorizing.

50 points for five T3 bodies isnt remotely "cheap" or "mass".

nemesis464 wrote:

Malefic666 wrote:


How they fix Custodes is a whole other matter though. Codex storm shields and hide needs some work. Shame there’s little chance our FW units get looked at too

Do you think there's any chance we'll get FW units integrated in? We're probably the army that needs those units the most- the base codex is so barebones.


I hope they massively improve our Land Raider. I've always loved the model but it's so hard to justify taking as it's arguably the weakest unit in the codex+FW combined.

Chances of FW units getting integrated into Psychic Awakening is pretty close to zero.

There will be new Forge World books later this year done by the studio team, It's a coin-flip whether the FW units get better or worse as a result though.

On raw capabilities a sister of silence has no real business costing more than a battle sister, even if they are both troops and grabbing up a 5++ or 6++ from 'the emperors chosen' as part of a mono talons force.

The reason being this - the beta codex battle sisters had more firepower, better anti-psyker capabilities, and could be freely mixed with custodes.
They didn't break the custodes, so no reason the SoS will unless the update _significantly_ buffs them.

nemesis464 wrote:

Malefic666 wrote:


How they fix Custodes is a whole other matter though. Codex storm shields and hide needs some work. Shame there’s little chance our FW units get looked at too

Do you think there's any chance we'll get FW units integrated in? We're probably the army that needs those units the most- the base codex is so barebones.


I hope they massively improve our Land Raider. I've always loved the model but it's so hard to justify taking as it's arguably the weakest unit in the codex+FW combined.

Prooobably no FW integration. That will be in the indicis.

So, if we can start decking out cheap battalions, it would be GW abandoning Soup, as now every Imperial Faction is practically stand alone, which is alright with me. I really do hope they become troops, but I don't thinki GW would do it. The SoS cost a lot less than the Guardians box, and GW would be shooting themselves, not to mention their FW side, in the foot financially. No one would even bother buying Guardians anymore. Why pay 500 for the guadians + HQ when you can pay 400 for the Sisters +a SC, and fill out the rest of the points with Wardens and Terminators? I don't see GW making that mistake, then again, this could be a shelf clearing technique before 9th drops.