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2020/06/16 09:02:02
Subject: Re:Codex Adeptus Custodes: By His will alone
WisdomLS wrote: Hi all,
just dipping my toes into Custodes, I brought a couple of models when they first came out but have only used them a couple of times. With the new edition I've decided that custodes will be my new army to add to the collection and just wanted a few pointers incase I'm doing something badly wrong.
These are my thoughts for a basic list, its about 1750 which I'm hoping will be around 2000 in 9th.
Bike Shield Captain - Seems an auto include beatstick
Trajan - Again, too good not to use.
3x3 Troops - Intend to have one shield in each. Is it worth taking bigger units?
Vexila - -1 to hit still seems the obvious choice and going with a shield.
3 Vertus Jetbikes with Salvo Launchers - The launchers don't seem popular but the list needs some anti tank and having it mobile is likely a good idea with the new terrain.
5/6 Terminators - The new durability strats make these very hard to shift and the built in deepstrike and new strats for double shooting and rolling an extra charge dice seem to make a bigger unit more valuable.
Relic Dreadnought - I own the Forgeworld Spear variant which can happily proxy for the codex version. Obviously the forgeworld version is much better but those rules are going to swiftly change with 9th.
A few general questions:
How do we kill tanks? The new edition seems to favour armour so I expect to see more of it around, I can hit them in melee but other options are thin on the ground.
Without FW, killing tanks and especially knights is tough. Allarus or bikes are your best option without FW i use an Ares gun ship(ridiculously expensive mony wise) to destroy tanks and a Caladius with the blaze cannon
Mobility - Other than making an army of jetbikes this is an issue, smaller tables may well help with this as will better terrain.
Forgeworld - I'm not adverse to FW just trying to keep the cost down as the army is a nice cheap option - If you had to choose one thing with current role what would you choose? (the rules are going to change but they will likely still do a similar job on the field).
I would wait until we know more about the FW books. But right now i would buy a Telemon
Our basic army rules seem a bit lacking, many primaris marines are better than us model for model (an intercessor Srg has 4 thunder hammer attacks!) I'm hoping for a real upgrade whenever a new 9th codex drops, more attacks and maybe a general "reduce AP by one" trait is needed to combat all the AP-1/-2 that is out there negating our armour.
Every army lacks when compared to SM they are just too good and to easy to play(point and click and win).
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/06/16 09:08:15
2020/06/16 10:47:44
Subject: Re:Codex Adeptus Custodes: By His will alone
Thanks for the replies guys, it seems like a decent force to jump on the bandwagon with, with the bits I already own it around £100 quid for a near 2K force, plus its so small it wont take up much space so my wife might not notice ;-)
You're right I shouldn't compare everything to marines, they just seem to be moving into the super elite territory.
The telemon is certainly a model I like, can't resist a dreadnought :-)
The Anti-tank is just something I've have to play around then, unless allies are a viable option - I have most other imperial forces.
WisdomLS wrote: Thanks for the replies guys, it seems like a decent force to jump on the bandwagon with, with the bits I already own it around £100 quid for a near 2K force, plus its so small it wont take up much space so my wife might not notice ;-)
You're right I shouldn't compare everything to marines, they just seem to be moving into the super elite territory.
The telemon is certainly a model I like, can't resist a dreadnought :-)
The Anti-tank is just something I've have to play around then, unless allies are a viable option - I have most other imperial forces.
I forgot to mention, the Telemon is also a decent anti tank option with 2 cannons. But it is vulnerable to the bad touch aka getting tied up in melee. That will change in 9th and the telemon looks already really good now but that might all change with 9th ed.
2020/06/16 11:24:02
Subject: Codex Adeptus Custodes: By His will alone
So I've been toying with this list for our new update in war of the spider and I wanted to share it with you guys and get some opinions. (when 9th Ed drops the models from the Vanguard detatchment in this list would just migrate into the battalion to get maximum CP)
Since I'm playing a big blob of allarus terminators I'm naturally playing dread host. I'd make my bike captain into a captain commander for 1cp and give him the recycle CP on a 5+ ability.
I'd also pay a CP for open the vaults to give my allarus shield captain the dread host relic axe with flat 3 dmg because it's awesome, put the achillus into deepstrike and buff him with the new strat to give him +1 attack and reroll charges.
I am not sure if in this case whether I would pay the extra CP to generate an extra warlord trait for my allarus captain because I am already spending quite a lot before the game even starts, but the dread host one that gives exploding 6s in melee would be tasty with the allarus bomb....not sure if it's worth it though
Game plan would be rather straight forward. Keep Trajann and the vexilla near the telemon. Use Trajann moment shackle to regain CP.
Park the guard squads on some objectives or carefully advance them up the board.
On the second turn unleash hell with our new dread host stratagem to increase our chances to charge from deepstrike and in the 3rd turn, if there are any CP left, play unleash the lions on the allarus blob to create utter chaos and mayhem.
Agree that an army-wide “ignores AP-1” is what Custodes need most defensively. Something to also keep in mind is with smaller board sizes CC of all types is going to be buffed.
For bikes, I still think hurricane bolters are the way to go: they are really good at what they are supposed to do, while missiles are only mediocre against their ideal targets. Against T7 3+ the missile does 2.22 wounds (assuming 4 damage and no more -1 to hit, less damage if there’s an invulnerable save) while the bolters do 1.11 inside 12”. 4 lance attacks do 3.1 damage in CC. In other words, you can cover your “anti-horde” bases with bolters, but you can’t cover your anti-tank with missiles and you’re not much better off against your typical targets (and still worse than your basic CC). If you want anti-tank shooting, right now FW is the only real place to get it with Telemon, Caladius, and Agamatus bikes or even the flyers.
Automatically Appended Next Post: @Tiberias it will depend on the matchup, but I’d pay the CP to give your Allarus captain the 5++ FNP warlord trait.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/06/16 13:17:44
Hope is the first step on the road to disappointment.
2020/06/16 13:43:03
Subject: Re:Codex Adeptus Custodes: By His will alone
greyknight12 wrote: Agree that an army-wide “ignores AP-1” is what Custodes need most defensively. Something to also keep in mind is with smaller board sizes CC of all types is going to be buffed.
For bikes, I still think hurricane bolters are the way to go: they are really good at what they are supposed to do, while missiles are only mediocre against their ideal targets. Against T7 3+ the missile does 2.22 wounds (assuming 4 damage and no more -1 to hit, less damage if there’s an invulnerable save) while the bolters do 1.11 inside 12”. 4 lance attacks do 3.1 damage in CC. In other words, you can cover your “anti-horde” bases with bolters, but you can’t cover your anti-tank with missiles and you’re not much better off against your typical targets (and still worse than your basic CC). If you want anti-tank shooting, right now FW is the only real place to get it with Telemon, Caladius, and Agamatus bikes or even the flyers.
Automatically Appended Next Post: @Tiberias it will depend on the matchup, but I’d pay the CP to give your Allarus captain the 5++ FNP warlord trait.
An army wide ignore - 1 ap would be awsome.
I just saw that in my list I've not chosen a warlord trait. Cause I had planned to give the bike captain the 5+++. Do you think the allarus captain is the better target for the 5++?
2020/06/16 14:27:29
Subject: Re:Codex Adeptus Custodes: By His will alone
I would consider it on the Allarus captain simply because you’ll be able to give the bike a 3++, you can make the bike captain ultra survivable by also giving him FNP or you can split the buffs; a lot will depend on how aggressive you’re going to be with each.
Hope is the first step on the road to disappointment.
2020/06/16 15:33:40
Subject: Re:Codex Adeptus Custodes: By His will alone
I'm really liking the Bike Captain with the 3++ Bike Relic, 5+++ Warlord Trait and then the +2 wound General Captain buff - Add in victor of the Blood games and he'll be nie on indestructible!
greyknight12 wrote:I would consider it on the Allarus captain simply because you’ll be able to give the bike a 3++, you can make the bike captain ultra survivable by also giving him FNP or you can split the buffs; a lot will depend on how aggressive you’re going to be with each.
WisdomLS wrote:I'm really liking the Bike Captain with the 3++ Bike Relic, 5+++ Warlord Trait and then the +2 wound General Captain buff - Add in victor of the Blood games and he'll be nie on indestructible!
The 5+++ on the bike captain is obviously very strong combined with the auric aquilis, it also really good on the allarus captain. It's just that I am notoriously bad at making successful invuln saves. I know that this is just personal bias, but it's already become sort of a meme in my playing group. I have had so many bad instances of our seemingly incredible durable characters just die randomly while at the same time failing even do serious dmg before dying because of our notoriously swingy d3 dmg weapons.
Therefore if I am going to pay a CP for an extra warlord trait I'd personally rather give the allarus captain the dread host trait with exploding 6s in melee when he is already carrying the relic axe with flat d3 dmg. This way I can at least be quite sure that everything the allarus captain and his terminator squad touch in combat will just evaporate.
I also like the captain commander ability to give our bike captain +2 wounds to make him even more tough, but I think the recycling CP ability on 5+ will always outshine every other option, because our new stratagems are so good.
2020/06/16 16:06:52
Subject: Re:Codex Adeptus Custodes: By His will alone
greyknight12 wrote:I would consider it on the Allarus captain simply because you’ll be able to give the bike a 3++, you can make the bike captain ultra survivable by also giving him FNP or you can split the buffs; a lot will depend on how aggressive you’re going to be with each.
WisdomLS wrote:I'm really liking the Bike Captain with the 3++ Bike Relic, 5+++ Warlord Trait and then the +2 wound General Captain buff - Add in victor of the Blood games and he'll be nie on indestructible!
The 5+++ on the bike captain is obviously very strong combined with the auric aquilis, it also really good on the allarus captain. It's just that I am notoriously bad at making successful invuln saves. I know that this is just personal bias, but it's already become sort of a meme in my playing group. I have had so many bad instances of our seemingly incredible durable characters just die randomly while at the same time failing even do serious dmg before dying because of our notoriously swingy d3 dmg weapons.
Therefore if I am going to pay a CP for an extra warlord trait I'd personally rather give the allarus captain the dread host trait with exploding 6s in melee when he is already carrying the relic axe with flat d3 dmg. This way I can at least be quite sure that everything the allarus captain and his terminator squad touch in combat will just evaporate.
I also like the captain commander ability to give our bike captain +2 wounds to make him even more tough, but I think the recycling CP ability on 5+ will always outshine every other option, because our new stratagems are so good.
Remember, the 5+ CP is still restricted to once per-battle-round. So we're looking at 6ish. You also gain one natively each battle round. So you'll have 18 already over the course of a game.
2020/06/16 18:04:41
Subject: Re:Codex Adeptus Custodes: By His will alone
greyknight12 wrote:I would consider it on the Allarus captain simply because you’ll be able to give the bike a 3++, you can make the bike captain ultra survivable by also giving him FNP or you can split the buffs; a lot will depend on how aggressive you’re going to be with each.
WisdomLS wrote:I'm really liking the Bike Captain with the 3++ Bike Relic, 5+++ Warlord Trait and then the +2 wound General Captain buff - Add in victor of the Blood games and he'll be nie on indestructible!
The 5+++ on the bike captain is obviously very strong combined with the auric aquilis, it also really good on the allarus captain. It's just that I am notoriously bad at making successful invuln saves. I know that this is just personal bias, but it's already become sort of a meme in my playing group. I have had so many bad instances of our seemingly incredible durable characters just die randomly while at the same time failing even do serious dmg before dying because of our notoriously swingy d3 dmg weapons.
Therefore if I am going to pay a CP for an extra warlord trait I'd personally rather give the allarus captain the dread host trait with exploding 6s in melee when he is already carrying the relic axe with flat d3 dmg. This way I can at least be quite sure that everything the allarus captain and his terminator squad touch in combat will just evaporate.
I also like the captain commander ability to give our bike captain +2 wounds to make him even more tough, but I think the recycling CP ability on 5+ will always outshine every other option, because our new stratagems are so good.
Remember, the 5+ CP is still restricted to once per-battle-round. So we're looking at 6ish. You also gain one natively each battle round. So you'll have 18 already over the course of a game.
Yes, and we are going to need all the CP, trust me. Most of your buffs in psychic awakening is tied to stratagems, which is why I think that captain commander ability way outshines the other ones, even though I think many of the other options are way cooler. Unstoppable Destroyer for example is awsome with the 3+d3 pile in and consolidate in any direction, thats nuts. But I think the 5+ regain a CP is still better overall.
Think about it, our version of transhuman physiology and the new strat that prevent any enemy rerolls are really, really strong, especially if you can combine them. If you can get those off one additional time due to the 5+ CP recycling it is already stronger than all other options in my opinion.
With the new strats our guys are finally as durable as they should have been in the first place, so anything that lets us use those stratagems more often is just golden in my book.
2020/06/16 19:04:27
Subject: Codex Adeptus Custodes: By His will alone
FezzikDaBullgryn wrote: We also have to wait and see what GW does in nerfing FW units. I am betting the Telemon will get a change.
What makes you think they will nerf the FW units? Did I miss something and they announced that they will?
I am still hoping we see little buffs to the achillus and galatus, though the galatus will already receive a buff since in 9th he can shoot his flamer into melee, which is really juicy.
2020/06/16 19:15:50
Subject: Re:Codex Adeptus Custodes: By His will alone
FezzikDaBullgryn wrote: We also have to wait and see what GW does in nerfing FW units. I am betting the Telemon will get a change.
Remember when Custodes FW got an update about 6 months ago and all our stuff got ‘nerfed’ for no reason, points increases/ranges cut. Well... I think that was done with 9th in mind, we already know boards are smaller and points are going up. At the time this happened GW would’ve been writing and finalising All the PA books and 9th. Do we really think they’re going to make changes again? My theory is that the FW stuff won’t change at all and it’s already done with 9th in mind.
FWIW I don’t think we’re going to see huge point changes. It’s not like Custodes have been tearing up the competitive scene and we all know what units are criminally undercosted.
The Achillus got all the buffs the Galatus did. The Galatus is still crap imo but the Achillus is decent for the points. Dreads got a big buff with what we know about 9th.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/06/16 21:20:00
2020/06/16 21:19:22
Subject: Codex Adeptus Custodes: By His will alone
When 9th was "dropped" they specifically mentioned that all FW models would be getting a point review. They were still usable, but changes would be coming. Given the recent buffs to our dreads, I sincerely believe that GW will not allow the Telemon to exist at it's current cost. a 3d6 charge? Shoot in melee with 2d6 (Possibly max shots by design) auto hitting S7 AP2 D1? Yeah, that is slightly better than intented me thinks.
2020/06/16 21:47:09
Subject: Codex Adeptus Custodes: By His will alone
FezzikDaBullgryn wrote: When 9th was "dropped" they specifically mentioned that all FW models would be getting a point review. They were still usable, but changes would be coming. Given the recent buffs to our dreads, I sincerely believe that GW will not allow the Telemon to exist at it's current cost. a 3d6 charge? Shoot in melee with 2d6 (Possibly max shots by design) auto hitting S7 AP2 D1? Yeah, that is slightly better than intented me thinks.
They mentioned a point review and also (accidentally) let slip that FW would be released at the same time as 9th and that it’s already done. My argument is that logically ours has probably been done and as we recently saw changes why was that not already with 9th in mind?
A Telemon can’t get a 3d6 charge, it’s 3d6 discard one for 1/2CP, lasts 1 phase, and is a host choice (admittedly a strong one), that isn’t that OP. Not sure what’s 2d6 S7 AP2 d1 but I assume you mean 2 Arachnus storm cannons in burst mode? 12 shots in melee, great you’re not rocking a Caestus (big mistake) so likely not doing too much in melee then anyway. I hated bad touch as a mechanic anyway.
I mean can we at least just stick to facts and be happy about the fantastic PA we just received. Let’s go with what we know and put the GW hates us tin hats away for now.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/06/16 21:49:31
2020/06/16 23:27:55
Subject: Codex Adeptus Custodes: By His will alone
I think that is a fine sentiment, but there are people here telling new players to run out and buy Telemon's and other FW stuff, like it's going to never get changed. I don't think it's tin foil to look at what GW stated, FW books are all getting a review, and think oh, maybe I'll hold off on the three tanks and 2 telemon for right now until GW actually fully launches 9th and slightly more people know what GW is actually doing to my army.
And to the person above who asked if I was pissed at FW or just the army in general? I am pissed that the army I chose to play and invest in became GW's least invested in faction. More than half our faction comes from a provider I can't walk into and buy off a shelf, or pay reasonable prices for (Unless I go EBAY or China market). I am pissed my Bikes got zero buffs over the least used models in the entire codex. I am pissed that my army looks like straight fire, and all I get to see are Primaris Carts and Bikes.
2020/06/17 01:04:05
Subject: Re:Codex Adeptus Custodes: By His will alone
FezzikDaBullgryn wrote: I think that is a fine sentiment, but there are people here telling new players to run out and buy Telemon's and other FW stuff, like it's going to never get changed.
Who though? Who is saying this?
If you're referring to WisdomLS post, every single poster who replied recommended waiting before touching FW because 9th is just around the corner.
FezzikDaBullgryn wrote: I am pissed that the army I chose to play and invest in became GW's least invested in faction.
Its like you have nothing of value to add in your posts so you manufacture this bizzare sounding outrage over GW's product portfolio to get replies. Its not a conspiracy theory, theyre just selling miniatures. They don't owe you anything and if you are unsatisfied just stop spending money on their products. People come to 40k forums because they like 40k, not to come and hear how bad GW is.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/06/17 01:04:26
2020/06/17 02:40:08
Subject: Codex Adeptus Custodes: By His will alone
FezzikDaBullgryn wrote: I am pissed that the army I chose to play and invest in became GW's least invested in faction.
This is demonstrably false while GSC, Drukhari, Harlequins and Deathwatch still exist as factions.
FezzikDaBullgryn wrote: I am pissed my Bikes got zero buffs over the least used models in the entire codex.
You're...pissed that one of the Custodes best units didnt get buffed? Then you werent paying attention to PA at all. The overwhelming majority of attention was focused on units that didnt see competitive level play (the end result of that attention is highly variable, but the intent was pretty clearly to buff up the lesser used models and units).
What did you expect, a shiny big "I-Win" button to glue onto your Praetors and Shield-Captains on Bikes?
2020/06/17 08:50:57
Subject: Re:Codex Adeptus Custodes: By His will alone
Eihnlazer wrote: Fezzik im just curious, but do you just hate the fact that we have to use FW competivly or do you hate FW itself?
The custodes book itself isn't competititve because it lacks options.
We get amazing HQ's, durable troops, take all comer bikes, and some gimicky terminators/infantry bomb (wardens).
That is literally all that's in the book. The LR and Dreads in the book are either overcosted or just not all that competitive compared to what other armies get. Therefore we use FW models, which give us some long range firepower (desperately needed) and some faster mobility stuff.
Bikes are amazing, but everyone knows about them, and can kill them over 2/3 turns so they wont win at tournaments. You cant just make a one trick poney list and expect to be competitive.
The new strats greatly improve the dreadnoughts (all of em, not just FW). They also give us more options with our older stuff.
Now we can take SoS to help with psychic stuff which is also a great help.
Don't hate on FW for giving us stuff we needed please.
I dislike forgeworld for their abusive pricing policies, dislike how GW chose to approach releasing and now updating custodes, and wish for more substantial options that don't rely on, well, extra abusive pricing. Forgeworld is literally priced to be exclusionary so rich hobbyests (and more than a few poorly self controlled not rich hobbyests spending money they don't have) can buy it and then sneer at people who can't afford it and man does that burn my buns. That FW is what custodes needs is kind of damning on GW for not... just giving Custodes enough options.
WisdomLS wrote: Hi all,
just dipping my toes into Custodes, I brought a couple of models when they first came out but have only used them a couple of times. With the new edition I've decided that custodes will be my new army to add to the collection and just wanted a few pointers incase I'm doing something badly wrong.
These are my thoughts for a basic list, its about 1750 which I'm hoping will be around 2000 in 9th.
Bike Shield Captain - Seems an auto include beatstick
Trajan - Again, too good not to use.
3x3 Troops - Intend to have one shield in each. Is it worth taking bigger units?
Vexila - -1 to hit still seems the obvious choice and going with a shield.
3 Vertus Jetbikes with Salvo Launchers - The launchers don't seem popular but the list needs some anti tank and having it mobile is likely a good idea with the new terrain.
5/6 Terminators - The new durability strats make these very hard to shift and the built in deepstrike and new strats for double shooting and rolling an extra charge dice seem to make a bigger unit more valuable.
Relic Dreadnought - I own the Forgeworld Spear variant which can happily proxy for the codex version. Obviously the forgeworld version is much better but those rules are going to swiftly change with 9th.
A few general questions:
How do we kill tanks? The new edition seems to favour armour so I expect to see more of it around, I can hit them in melee but other options are thin on the ground.
Without FW, killing tanks and especially knights is tough. Allarus or bikes are your best option without FW i use an Ares gun ship(ridiculously expensive mony wise) to destroy tanks and a Caladius with the blaze cannon
Mobility - Other than making an army of jetbikes this is an issue, smaller tables may well help with this as will better terrain.
Forgeworld - I'm not adverse to FW just trying to keep the cost down as the army is a nice cheap option - If you had to choose one thing with current role what would you choose? (the rules are going to change but they will likely still do a similar job on the field).
I would wait until we know more about the FW books. But right now i would buy a Telemon
Our basic army rules seem a bit lacking, many primaris marines are better than us model for model (an intercessor Srg has 4 thunder hammer attacks!) I'm hoping for a real upgrade whenever a new 9th codex drops, more attacks and maybe a general "reduce AP by one" trait is needed to combat all the AP-1/-2 that is out there negating our armour.
Every army lacks when compared to SM they are just too good and to easy to play(point and click and win).
I actually think Custodes got a big bump in knight nuking with strategems making for easier DS charges and plus 1 to wound. Especially bikes. 4 plus rerolling is a world of difference compared to a 5 plus rerolling.
Custodes did become quite CP hungry though, so I hope everyone's got their loyal 32 until 9th. I mean, if you're actually playing games in lockdown.
2020/06/17 09:12:18
Subject: Codex Adeptus Custodes: By His will alone
FezzikDaBullgryn wrote: When 9th was "dropped" they specifically mentioned that all FW models would be getting a point review. They were still usable, but changes would be coming. Given the recent buffs to our dreads, I sincerely believe that GW will not allow the Telemon to exist at it's current cost. a 3d6 charge? Shoot in melee with 2d6 (Possibly max shots by design) auto hitting S7 AP2 D1? Yeah, that is slightly better than intented me thinks.
They mentioned a point review and also (accidentally) let slip that FW would be released at the same time as 9th and that it’s already done. My argument is that logically ours has probably been done and as we recently saw changes why was that not already with 9th in mind?
A Telemon can’t get a 3d6 charge, it’s 3d6 discard one for 1/2CP, lasts 1 phase, and is a host choice (admittedly a strong one), that isn’t that OP. Not sure what’s 2d6 S7 AP2 d1 but I assume you mean 2 Arachnus storm cannons in burst mode? 12 shots in melee, great you’re not rocking a Caestus (big mistake) so likely not doing too much in melee then anyway. I hated bad touch as a mechanic anyway.
I mean can we at least just stick to facts and be happy about the fantastic PA we just received. Let’s go with what we know and put the GW hates us tin hats away for now.
The PA's aren't all that well working with 9th in mind though. They claim they were written with that in mind yet includes stuff that is excelent in 8th ed and literally loses all point in 9th. Get to ignore -1 for moving with heavy weapon! Great. Except in 9th ed only applies to vehicles(which gets it in 9th ed) and stuff that have natively anyway...Only one weapon on characters and bad one at that actually benefits from this PA addition.
Plus GW doesn't want players to buy resin. Plastic instead. Bigger profit margin.
2024 painted/bought: 109/109
2020/06/17 09:15:47
Subject: Codex Adeptus Custodes: By His will alone
FezzikDaBullgryn wrote: When 9th was "dropped" they specifically mentioned that all FW models would be getting a point review. They were still usable, but changes would be coming. Given the recent buffs to our dreads, I sincerely believe that GW will not allow the Telemon to exist at it's current cost. a 3d6 charge? Shoot in melee with 2d6 (Possibly max shots by design) auto hitting S7 AP2 D1? Yeah, that is slightly better than intented me thinks.
They mentioned a point review and also (accidentally) let slip that FW would be released at the same time as 9th and that it’s already done. My argument is that logically ours has probably been done and as we recently saw changes why was that not already with 9th in mind?
A Telemon can’t get a 3d6 charge, it’s 3d6 discard one for 1/2CP, lasts 1 phase, and is a host choice (admittedly a strong one), that isn’t that OP. Not sure what’s 2d6 S7 AP2 d1 but I assume you mean 2 Arachnus storm cannons in burst mode? 12 shots in melee, great you’re not rocking a Caestus (big mistake) so likely not doing too much in melee then anyway. I hated bad touch as a mechanic anyway.
I mean can we at least just stick to facts and be happy about the fantastic PA we just received. Let’s go with what we know and put the GW hates us tin hats away for now.
The PA's aren't all that well working with 9th in mind though. They claim they were written with that in mind yet includes stuff that is excelent in 8th ed and literally loses all point in 9th. Get to ignore -1 for moving with heavy weapon! Great. Except in 9th ed only applies to vehicles(which gets it in 9th ed) and stuff that have natively anyway...Only one weapon on characters and bad one at that actually benefits from this PA addition.
Plus GW doesn't want players to buy resin. Plastic instead. Bigger profit margin.
Forge World's prices more than compensates for that margin.
2020/06/17 19:41:11
Subject: Codex Adeptus Custodes: By His will alone
FezzikDaBullgryn wrote: When 9th was "dropped" they specifically mentioned that all FW models would be getting a point review. They were still usable, but changes would be coming. Given the recent buffs to our dreads, I sincerely believe that GW will not allow the Telemon to exist at it's current cost. a 3d6 charge? Shoot in melee with 2d6 (Possibly max shots by design) auto hitting S7 AP2 D1? Yeah, that is slightly better than intented me thinks.
They mentioned a point review and also (accidentally) let slip that FW would be released at the same time as 9th and that it’s already done. My argument is that logically ours has probably been done and as we recently saw changes why was that not already with 9th in mind?
A Telemon can’t get a 3d6 charge, it’s 3d6 discard one for 1/2CP, lasts 1 phase, and is a host choice (admittedly a strong one), that isn’t that OP. Not sure what’s 2d6 S7 AP2 d1 but I assume you mean 2 Arachnus storm cannons in burst mode? 12 shots in melee, great you’re not rocking a Caestus (big mistake) so likely not doing too much in melee then anyway. I hated bad touch as a mechanic anyway.
I mean can we at least just stick to facts and be happy about the fantastic PA we just received. Let’s go with what we know and put the GW hates us tin hats away for now.
The PA's aren't all that well working with 9th in mind though. They claim they were written with that in mind yet includes stuff that is excelent in 8th ed and literally loses all point in 9th. Get to ignore -1 for moving with heavy weapon! Great. Except in 9th ed only applies to vehicles(which gets it in 9th ed) and stuff that have natively anyway...Only one weapon on characters and bad one at that actually benefits from this PA addition.
Plus GW doesn't want players to buy resin. Plastic instead. Bigger profit margin.
You must’ve seen more of 9th than me then because right now we still don’t know more than a few bits they’ve shared on community.
Automatically Appended Next Post: For what it’s worth I’m planning on running a big unit of shield guards, 7 Allarus, Trajann, a bike captain and depending on how important actions are either some shield/spear guard or my Telemon. Take the Telemon out and that’s all plastic and all good. I might even take some bikes and make them Solar Watch instead of the Telemon anyway, prob if a dual patrol is an option. Our PA made all of our codex units better (save the woeful Contemptor and sure the Land Raider is still a no no) but otherwise Allarus are solid now, bikes are great with arcane genetic alchemy, Wardens didn’t get much on the face of it but they’re no bad pick, and a bike captain can be made so tough now too it’s untrue. I mean, nobody is forcing anyone to play the game or collect the hobby so if it’s that bad maybe just eBay your army and go be negative on another forum? I’m beyond happy with what Custodes got and can’t wait to have fun playing them again.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/06/17 19:52:58
2020/06/18 00:10:37
Subject: Codex Adeptus Custodes: By His will alone
So what if any impact will the new overwatch rules have on Custodes? I have never really been scared of charging anything short of guard blobs or tanks, and this doesn't really change that. We still need to get into melee to be maximally effective, and this just forces Guard to pick and choose which charge to stop. Still, charging hordes will be dicey, as unmodded 6's always hit and cannot be altered. But I don't see this as a major change to the play style.
2020/06/18 00:12:02
Subject: Codex Adeptus Custodes: By His will alone
FezzikDaBullgryn wrote: So what if any impact will the new overwatch rules have on Custodes? I have never really been scared of charging anything short of guard blobs or tanks, and this doesn't really change that. We still need to get into melee to be maximally effective, and this just forces Guard to pick and choose which charge to stop. Still, charging hordes will be dicey, as unmodded 6's always hit and cannot be altered. But I don't see this as a major change to the play style.
What guard blob is scary to charge?
A 20-man combined squad has 38 shots.
6.33 hits
2.11 wounds
They'd be lucky to do a single point of damage to T5 Custodes. If you're charging in Bikes, cut that in half, since they only wound on 6s.
Clocks for the clockmaker! Cogs for the cog throne!
2020/06/18 07:27:31
Subject: Codex Adeptus Custodes: By His will alone
FezzikDaBullgryn wrote: So what if any impact will the new overwatch rules have on Custodes? I have never really been scared of charging anything short of guard blobs or tanks, and this doesn't really change that. We still need to get into melee to be maximally effective, and this just forces Guard to pick and choose which charge to stop. Still, charging hordes will be dicey, as unmodded 6's always hit and cannot be altered. But I don't see this as a major change to the play style.
? Have you played against Tau or Admech or i don't know Iron hands? The 3 rip tide blob is almost impossible to charge... i think this is great step in the right direction. And helps us not as much as other armys.
2020/06/18 12:47:48
Subject: Codex Adeptus Custodes: By His will alone
I saw somewhere that certain armies/factions were "exempt" from the overwatch rule if they had a special keyword, one was IG, the other was Tau. I thought ok, if tau infantry get it exempted, what is the point? Also the Riptides can still shoot in melee right? So you will still get shot to hell in the next turn. Same with Punishers or any Russ tank honestly. This doesn't really alleviate the pain, you can no longer modify overwatch rolls, so the only thing hitting now are 6's, until that changes, so this really hurts Eldar right?
2020/06/18 14:14:04
Subject: Re:Codex Adeptus Custodes: By His will alone
Eihnlazer wrote: Fezzik im just curious, but do you just hate the fact that we have to use FW competivly or do you hate FW itself?
The custodes book itself isn't competititve because it lacks options.
We get amazing HQ's, durable troops, take all comer bikes, and some gimicky terminators/infantry bomb (wardens).
That is literally all that's in the book. The LR and Dreads in the book are either overcosted or just not all that competitive compared to what other armies get. Therefore we use FW models, which give us some long range firepower (desperately needed) and some faster mobility stuff.
Bikes are amazing, but everyone knows about them, and can kill them over 2/3 turns so they wont win at tournaments. You cant just make a one trick poney list and expect to be competitive.
The new strats greatly improve the dreadnoughts (all of em, not just FW). They also give us more options with our older stuff.
Now we can take SoS to help with psychic stuff which is also a great help.
Don't hate on FW for giving us stuff we needed please.
I dislike forgeworld for their abusive pricing policies, dislike how GW chose to approach releasing and now updating custodes, and wish for more substantial options that don't rely on, well, extra abusive pricing. Forgeworld is literally priced to be exclusionary so rich hobbyests (and more than a few poorly self controlled not rich hobbyests spending money they don't have) can buy it and then sneer at people who can't afford it and man does that burn my buns. That FW is what custodes needs is kind of damning on GW for not... just giving Custodes enough options.
WisdomLS wrote: Hi all,
just dipping my toes into Custodes, I brought a couple of models when they first came out but have only used them a couple of times. With the new edition I've decided that custodes will be my new army to add to the collection and just wanted a few pointers incase I'm doing something badly wrong.
These are my thoughts for a basic list, its about 1750 which I'm hoping will be around 2000 in 9th.
Bike Shield Captain - Seems an auto include beatstick
Trajan - Again, too good not to use.
3x3 Troops - Intend to have one shield in each. Is it worth taking bigger units?
Vexila - -1 to hit still seems the obvious choice and going with a shield.
3 Vertus Jetbikes with Salvo Launchers - The launchers don't seem popular but the list needs some anti tank and having it mobile is likely a good idea with the new terrain.
5/6 Terminators - The new durability strats make these very hard to shift and the built in deepstrike and new strats for double shooting and rolling an extra charge dice seem to make a bigger unit more valuable.
Relic Dreadnought - I own the Forgeworld Spear variant which can happily proxy for the codex version. Obviously the forgeworld version is much better but those rules are going to swiftly change with 9th.
A few general questions:
How do we kill tanks? The new edition seems to favour armour so I expect to see more of it around, I can hit them in melee but other options are thin on the ground.
Without FW, killing tanks and especially knights is tough. Allarus or bikes are your best option without FW i use an Ares gun ship(ridiculously expensive mony wise) to destroy tanks and a Caladius with the blaze cannon
Mobility - Other than making an army of jetbikes this is an issue, smaller tables may well help with this as will better terrain.
Forgeworld - I'm not adverse to FW just trying to keep the cost down as the army is a nice cheap option - If you had to choose one thing with current role what would you choose? (the rules are going to change but they will likely still do a similar job on the field).
I would wait until we know more about the FW books. But right now i would buy a Telemon
Our basic army rules seem a bit lacking, many primaris marines are better than us model for model (an intercessor Srg has 4 thunder hammer attacks!) I'm hoping for a real upgrade whenever a new 9th codex drops, more attacks and maybe a general "reduce AP by one" trait is needed to combat all the AP-1/-2 that is out there negating our armour.
Every army lacks when compared to SM they are just too good and to easy to play(point and click and win).
I actually think Custodes got a big bump in knight nuking with strategems making for easier DS charges and plus 1 to wound. Especially bikes. 4 plus rerolling is a world of difference compared to a 5 plus rerolling.
Custodes did become quite CP hungry though, so I hope everyone's got their loyal 32 until 9th. I mean, if you're actually playing games in lockdown.
Honestly this post reads like you never looked at FW's pricing. It really isn't much more, if at all, compared to GW's modern pricing.
CaptainStabby wrote: If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.
jy2 wrote: BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.
vipoid wrote: Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?
MarsNZ wrote: ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
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