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 Eihnlazer wrote:
The healing is one terminator per turn gets full heal, then a power revives one, then a cabal ritual thing brings a second back.

Now,being a tsons player, and following their new stuff and just waiting for the codex to arrive, I can tell you for certainly at least two of those healing tricks have a "unit can only be healed once per turn" wording , which applies across all sources of healing.

Once I get my DeX I'll be able to quote the rules exactly but trust me, your not supposed to be stacking healing like that. I know the guys at auspex tactics definitely have that Intrepation as well in the codex review.

So according to a leak (don't know how reputable it is), the release in December is gonna be Custodes vs GSC with a box released alongside the codices containing a new Custodes Lieutenant character. I don't know if I believe it and even if it is real, I don't know if I like the fact that the one new unit we're getting is a lieutenant.

 mrhappyface wrote:
So according to a leak (don't know how reputable it is), the release in December is gonna be Custodes vs GSC with a box released alongside the codices containing a new Custodes Lieutenant character. I don't know if I believe it and even if it is real, I don't know if I like the fact that the one new unit we're getting is a lieutenant.

That seems like a weird pairing, especially since they've been hyping up the octarius sector with orks, guard and tyranids. I'd be happy to see our codex this year obviously, but I'm rather skeptical on this one. Where's the supposed leak from?

Also, I'm rather curious what our lieutenant equivalent is supposed to be. Correct me if I'm wrong, but as far as ranks go we only have shield captains, captain commanders and tribunes. Tribunes are the highest rank just below the captain general (I think that's still canon...was that way during the heresy), so they won't call it that I guess. If they just call it a lieutenant like some standard space marine, I'm gonna get an aneurysm though.

Well, I mean nothing in the fluff indicates they have a "Lieutenant" in their martial architecture, the closest being the guy who carries the flag. He is often either the second best person in the squad, or at least one of the wisest. I personally dislike the idea because I know maybe one person in 3 years who plays GSC, so it will be incredibly difficult to find someone to split the box with.

I also think it's odd how much GW has been pushing the Custodes in the fluff, as part of indomitus, but isn't actually advancing their fluff, at all. It's just, they exist, the end. No new chapters, no new ranks, no new types of Custodes. Just "Standing in the back looking intimidating" seems to be the extent of their fluff. Unless you count the Dawn of Fire series, where basically 5 Custodes and a single platoon of Primaris stop an entire Black Legion invasion.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Tiberias wrote:

 mrhappyface wrote:
So according to a leak (don't know how reputable it is), the release in December is gonna be Custodes vs GSC with a box released alongside the codices containing a new Custodes Lieutenant character. I don't know if I believe it and even if it is real, I don't know if I like the fact that the one new unit we're getting is a lieutenant.

That seems like a weird pairing, especially since they've been hyping up the octarius sector with orks, guard and tyranids. I'd be happy to see our codex this year obviously, but I'm rather skeptical on this one. Where's the supposed leak from?

Also, I'm rather curious what our lieutenant equivalent is supposed to be. Correct me if I'm wrong, but as far as ranks go we only have shield captains, captain commanders and tribunes. Tribunes are the highest rank just below the captain general (I think that's still canon...was that way during the heresy), so they won't call it that I guess. If they just call it a lieutenant like some standard space marine, I'm gonna get an aneurysm though.

In Dawn of fire series, the SC there calls his second (The guy with the flag) by a strange title. I can't for the life of me remember what it was, but it was a title, or position, not a name.

see, custodes are one of those factions where a "Lieutenant" type character makes very little sense, frankly.

The Ten Thousand explicitly have a very flat hierarchy, often bordering on almost no hierarchy, with each Custodian being, more or less, roughly equal, with a large number of ceremonial titles and such but very much operating in a group consensus. Naturally they have a command structure for large scale deployments, but its still a very flat org chart, and given thier tendency to fight as individuals rather than in close knit units, thier isnt really much need for a "junior commander" position to direct the troops, because the troops already know the plan and are perfectly capable of coming up with new plans on the fly.


edit: the 40K wiki makes mention of the title of "Prefect" in relation to the custodes, which is "accorded as a reward of veterancy and favour in service to the Emperor".


Prefect is an old roman rank, translating as something like "the one in front" (ie leader), being a title held by many commanders, most notably legionary cohort commanders.

Yes.
But we need lieutnants. Because the rules writers decided so and therefore we shall get them.
Suddenly Prefects will have been there for 10000 years, we just didnt know because they take a vow of not appearing when taking the title or something

Tiberias wrote:
That seems like a weird pairing, especially since they've been hyping up the octarius sector with orks, guard and tyranids. I'd be happy to see our codex this year obviously, but I'm rather skeptical on this one. Where's the supposed leak from?

My friend says it was some guy on B&C:

He also says 2022 is the year for chaos and chaos will get a whole lot of love. No idea how credible this guy is and apparently his post got deleted by the mods on B&C.

Also, I'm rather curious what our lieutenant equivalent is supposed to be. Correct me if I'm wrong, but as far as ranks go we only have shield captains, captain commanders and tribunes. Tribunes are the highest rank just below the captain general (I think that's still canon...was that way during the heresy), so they won't call it that I guess. If they just call it a lieutenant like some standard space marine, I'm gonna get an aneurysm though.

Absolutely no clue and tbh, I'd rather they just give our existing units more wargear options, but GW isn't apposed to creating new fluff out of the blue to justify their new models. So who knows.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
Well, I mean nothing in the fluff indicates they have a "Lieutenant" in their martial architecture, the closest being the guy who carries the flag. He is often either the second best person in the squad, or at least one of the wisest. I personally dislike the idea because I know maybe one person in 3 years who plays GSC, so it will be incredibly difficult to find someone to split the box with.

I think GSC being the xenos release is pretty much a certainty at this point, the rumour engines for the last month or so have all been GSC.

 Thairne wrote:
Yes.
But we need lieutenants. Because the rules writers decided so and therefore we shall get them.
Suddenly Prefects will have been there for 10000 years, we just didnt know because they take a vow of not appearing when taking the title or something

i think you've got your order of creation mixed up. Games workshop is a model company driven by models. they 100% dreamt up a new custodes sculpt and are inserting a Prefect back into the lore (like i said, it appears to have been a thing at some point), to give rules to this new model.

but, hey, the fact he;s a "lieutenant" type character in terms of where he sits in power level, doesn't mean he will be styled in game as a lieutenants/junior commander. he could be styled as more of a "independent operator"/"one man fire brigade" type in a smash captain style. a beatstick intended to be thrown into a enemy and hold them in melee, or he could be specialised headhunter with deep strike and anti-character protection abilites for all we know. Hell, it could be the much desired Sister of Silence HQ choice!

If, indeed, he is what we get. it could just be wrong info....

 mrhappyface wrote:

Tiberias wrote:
That seems like a weird pairing, especially since they've been hyping up the octarius sector with orks, guard and tyranids. I'd be happy to see our codex this year obviously, but I'm rather skeptical on this one. Where's the supposed leak from?

My friend says it was some guy on B&C:

He also says 2022 is the year for chaos and chaos will get a whole lot of love. No idea how credible this guy is and apparently his post got deleted by the mods on B&C.

Also, I'm rather curious what our lieutenant equivalent is supposed to be. Correct me if I'm wrong, but as far as ranks go we only have shield captains, captain commanders and tribunes. Tribunes are the highest rank just below the captain general (I think that's still canon...was that way during the heresy), so they won't call it that I guess. If they just call it a lieutenant like some standard space marine, I'm gonna get an aneurysm though.

Absolutely no clue and tbh, I'd rather they just give our existing units more wargear options, but GW isn't apposed to creating new fluff out of the blue to justify their new models. So who knows.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
Well, I mean nothing in the fluff indicates they have a "Lieutenant" in their martial architecture, the closest being the guy who carries the flag. He is often either the second best person in the squad, or at least one of the wisest. I personally dislike the idea because I know maybe one person in 3 years who plays GSC, so it will be incredibly difficult to find someone to split the box with.

I think GSC being the xenos release is pretty much a certainty at this point, the rumour engines for the last month or so have all been GSC.

Thanks for posting it. I've seen it in some other threads now as well. I guess we'll have to wait and see, but I'd be obvisously very happy to see our codex this year.
The box with GSC would be cool and all if it proves to be true, but a small caveat remains imo: there are very few GSC players to split the box with....guess I'll maybe start a small GSC force....

What would the purpose of a LT even be? Cheaper re-rolls to hit? On a +2 baseline force?

I also just want to say I don't trust B&C. Not that they can't be trusted, but I think this is a little too bold of a prediction. What would the point of using Custodes against GSC be? Even fluff-wise that is a SERIOUS waste of resources. Bobby G sanctioned the use of Custodes, while fighting back a Chaos tide, and Mortarian, against some base level threat like GSC? Honestly, that's better fodder for the Sisters or the Primaris.

Re-rolls to wound, like every other lieutenant out there.

As to why GSC - no clue. Maybe they have low sales and they want to shift stock and, with the same move, start some GSC armies out there?

GSC have low sales because they suck and are super, ridiculously expensive. That's kinda the definition of a hard sell - pay 3x as much for this army as normal, and lose at least 2/3s of your game against equally skilled opponents!

After all the times I've been called a conspiracy theorist because of saying Model changes = model sales, I just want to say, I don't think even with a new codex anyone wants to play GSC. They are and will still be a very crap faction that barely does either of their two blended factions (Guard/Nids) well. They suck at horde play, and they don't boast the firepower of guard.

I don't see re-roll to wounds aura Custodes characters being a thing outside of Trajaan, because they would be kinda pointless. We already wound most infantry on 2s and 3's. Tanks are not a major problem for us either.

We still would have the exact same problems. no good anti-horde options and psyker defense.

If anything a LT would be an interesting cheaper bike captain alternative.

I dunno, LT in a Telemon?

like i said, this planned custodes LT might be a "LT" in the sense of "lesser character" compared to a shield cap, but not actually be a "junior commander" type with a buff aura, but could be either a strong single combatant in his own right, or a some headhunter capable of taking out characters, or even a Sisters of Silence character! or even something else entirely that branches out of the current custodes style, like the Tsons new chaplain type caster, the Infernal Master.

i mean, if it really is us, we'll find out in a about mid-november, by my guess.

While we are lacking the traditional LT's reroll 1's to wound aura that most armies have, we could also be getting a unique buffing aura.


Their Finest Hour: All "Adeptus Custodes" units within 6" of this character may reroll any 1's made while rolling their invunerable saves. Any "Talons of the Emporer" units within 12" of this model at the start of the fight phase who are in engagement range of models from at least 2 or more enemy units gain the "Fights First" rule until the end of the phase.

Do we actually need extra single characters that hit hard? For 750 points and 2CP you can have 10 really strong hard hitting characters that have character targeting, launchers, and axes!

If they give us Venatari LTs that would be interesting I guess. But only slightly outshined by a SC on a bike.

So I am debating the effects of Blast against us. No one I have played in 9th has used much blast to any great affect, ala Guard LR tanks, or Bane Blades. If anyone has ever really gone blast, it's with Flamers.

That being the case, Flamers don't really scare custodes infantry at all. So should I still be worried about making 6-10 model squads of bikes or terminators? Do we really have anything to fear from blast? Has anyone seen many d6 S8 AP 3 weapons in play?

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
So I am debating the effects of Blast against us. No one I have played in 9th has used much blast to any great affect, ala Guard LR tanks, or Bane Blades. If anyone has ever really gone blast, it's with Flamers.

That being the case, Flamers don't really scare custodes infantry at all. So should I still be worried about making 6-10 model squads of bikes or terminators? Do we really have anything to fear from blast? Has anyone seen many d6 S8 AP 3 weapons in play?

Flamers aren't Blast.

Demolisher Cannons (at S10 AP-3 Dd6) are, though.

Katahron Destroyers Plasma Culverins are Blast. I beleive Primaris Plasma Inceptors are Blast as well. So there is definitely Str 8 AP3 blast weaponry to watch out for.

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
So I am debating the effects of Blast against us. No one I have played in 9th has used much blast to any great affect, ala Guard LR tanks, or Bane Blades. If anyone has ever really gone blast, it's with Flamers.

That being the case, Flamers don't really scare custodes infantry at all. So should I still be worried about making 6-10 model squads of bikes or terminators? Do we really have anything to fear from blast? Has anyone seen many d6 S8 AP 3 weapons in play?

Flamers don't have Blast.

Plasma Inceptors are a nightmare for 6-man Custodes unit. Each will fire 6 (3 + 3) S8 AP-3 D2 (D3 if Dark Angels) shots.

TBH, it seems to me 3 mans for holding, 5 man for pushing, and 10 man as a full bomb. But given the choice between a 5 and 6 man squad, i always pick 5.

Aren't the Macro-Plasma Incinerators for Redemptors Blast as well? Those can get to 3 or 4 damage, pretty common too.

I would always take 3x3 man squads over one big 10 man squad but that's just me, there's no stratagem I personally is worth increasing the efficiency of when compared to the flexibility and survivability of smaller seperate squads.

I guess I don't want to take multiple detachments, and I was more thinking about Allarus, Vertus Praetors, and Warden Bombs. A ten man bike squad is pretty devastating shooting against most infantry based stuff in the game. Again, I don't see them earning their points back, so I was considering Allarus Bombs. A 10 man squad costs roughly half your points, but their pucker factor is really off the charts. No one can easily laugh off 10 Allarus dropping in and saying high.

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
I guess I don't want to take multiple detachments, and I was more thinking about Allarus, Vertus Praetors, and Warden Bombs. A ten man bike squad is pretty devastating shooting against most infantry based stuff in the game. Again, I don't see them earning their points back, so I was considering Allarus Bombs. A 10 man squad costs roughly half your points, but their pucker factor is really off the charts. No one can easily laugh off 10 Allarus dropping in and saying high.

True, 10 terminators are devastating, but I would argue it is quite easy for most competent opponents to screen them out from deepstriking anywhere useful. Yes, we still have the teleport homer stratagem and it can be super clutch, but that move is very telegraphed.

Just my personal opinion, but I am not a fan of having a unit that makes up such a large portion of your army points wise. I'd rather have squads of five and multiple units that act as threats my opponents can't ignore. You also really can't ignore a 5 man allarus/aquilon squad, you can't ignore a 5 man venatari quad and you can't ignore our dreadnoughts, because they will bully you. Your opponents now have to choose and allocate their resources to remove one of these things they can't ignore, leaving your other assets safe to do the work.

But two 5x model squads are not as effective as a single 10 model blob. Especially on DS. It costs twice the CP for them to do their job to utmost effectiveness.

Someone suggested a while ago, and I think it might have been worth a look, of mixed squads. They do this in the books. Every unit of Custodes acts as a sort of Deathwatch Kill team, taking everything they will need to 100% achieve their mission. If we could throw out Squads of 3x terminators, two shield brothers, and a SC in Terminator armor, I'd be there in a heart beat.

10 allarus with spears is 650 and will demolish the turn it comes in.

With vexilla to guarentee the charge and give +1 attack theres almost nothing that can live through them.

The problem is your investing almost 800pts and up to 4 CP to delete 1 or 2 units, which in this edition is hardly efficient.

Not saying you're wrong, however I think the chance of them earning their points back is more than just what they kill. Say they pop into the backfield of a 1KSons Line. They will easily kill 4 sorcerers (over 14 wounds) with just axes shooting alone not even talking GLs(RF range, inescapable Vengeance and Superior Firing patterns), then maybe charge a DP. With Axes that DP will likely do around 16 wounds to it, killing it. It will then consolidate into the nearest unit up to 9" (So long as they move 3" towards the nearest Character and finish with an inch of another unit. Thats 3-5 HQs dead, and likely another unit tied up by some very mean golden men. Your opponent's backfield is likely shattered and is now scrambling for a new plan. If that isn't worth 800 points and 4 CP I can't decide what might be?

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
Not saying you're wrong, however I think the chance of them earning their points back is more than just what they kill. Say they pop into the backfield of a 1KSons Line. They will easily kill 4 sorcerers (over 14 wounds) with just axes shooting alone not even talking GLs(RF range, inescapable Vengeance and Superior Firing patterns), then maybe charge a DP. With Axes that DP will likely do around 16 wounds to it, killing it. It will then consolidate into the nearest unit up to 9" (So long as they move 3" towards the nearest Character and finish with an inch of another unit. Thats 3-5 HQs dead, and likely another unit tied up by some very mean golden men. Your opponent's backfield is likely shattered and is now scrambling for a new plan. If that isn't worth 800 points and 4 CP I can't decide what might be?

All under the assumption that you can actually fit ten terminators into their backlines. A ten man squad has a very large footprint on the table and is rather easy to screen out from deepstriking in a position where you can get to the juicy targets.

Tiberias wrote:

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
Not saying you're wrong, however I think the chance of them earning their points back is more than just what they kill. Say they pop into the backfield of a 1KSons Line. They will easily kill 4 sorcerers (over 14 wounds) with just axes shooting alone not even talking GLs(RF range, inescapable Vengeance and Superior Firing patterns), then maybe charge a DP. With Axes that DP will likely do around 16 wounds to it, killing it. It will then consolidate into the nearest unit up to 9" (So long as they move 3" towards the nearest Character and finish with an inch of another unit. Thats 3-5 HQs dead, and likely another unit tied up by some very mean golden men. Your opponent's backfield is likely shattered and is now scrambling for a new plan. If that isn't worth 800 points and 4 CP I can't decide what might be?

All under the assumption that you can actually fit ten terminators into their backlines. A ten man squad has a very large footprint on the table and is rather easy to screen out from deepstriking in a position where you can get to the juicy targets.

Point granted. Doesn't always happen, but I find in the casual games I play, by the 2nd turn, most players have tried to push up the board to some extent. Enough at least to pull this off.

Good morning everyone,

I started collecting and painting Custodes during lockdown and have been fortunate enough to play a few games with them in person the last few weeks. I predominantly play 1000pts in my local area.

I've been having a blast with Custodes but this is definitely the most CP hungry army I have played. Any recommendations on ways to recover CP? I normally run Indomitable Constitution but I've been considering using Strategic Mastermind. I've heard Inquisitors and Assassins have CP recovery abilities but I haven't looked too far into those options.

My army is as follows:
Shadowkeepers Custodes (<1000pts)
HQ (-1CP)
Shield Captain on Dawn Eagle Jet Bike
Auric Aquilas, Lockwarden, Indomitable Constitution

Troops
3x Custodian Guard Squad x3 with Storm Shields and Sentinel Blades

Elites
2x Contemptor Achillus Dreadnoughts. Wargear loadouts pushes me up to 993 pts.