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Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




 Eihnlazer wrote:
Fezzik, theres basically noone who can dish out the amount of attacks the blade champ can.

I already pointed out he can one shot a 20 man warrior blob. Who else can do that?

6 base attacks, +1 for banner, +1 for Ka'tah=8
Doubled for hurricanas to 16.
Peerless warrior WL trait for new swings on a 6+
All seeing annihilator for exploding 6's.

On average he gets 3 6's which counter his 1's and give him 3 more attacks for 19 hits.
He then gets 14 wounds, and assuming Dread host gets +1 AP is killing 12-13 warriors by himself.

As long as you shot some dead before he goes in the unit is gone. And if 1 or 2 live they fail morale.

So basically he's up there with the likes of Mortarion and the succubus for killiness without using any strats.

Heres the kicker, you can take 3 of em, and they are far more durable than the succubus, and far cheaper than mortarion.


You don't really need to kill a lot of necron warriors XD.

Also I would ne count on him v a succubus


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 The Red Hobbit wrote:
I would have preferred our new killy HQ be the same price as a Shield Captain but I'm still interested in trying him out.

Have they announced when he'll be sold separately?


Half a year to a year

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/12/10 05:20:54


 
   
Made in us
Fresh-Faced New User




with 3d printing and hand craft skills, one can kitbash a better champion. Head from termi or venatari, torso of food guard, leg from bikers or venatari, a simple blade, a cloak from termi or veteran.
   
Made in us
Morally-Flexible Malleus Hearing Whispers




novembermike wrote:
FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
If I am being kind, he might act as a seriously dangerous D. Carnifex; unassuming single character, but he can get ugly very fast.

But my question is again, at the cost, and position, I don't see it being of much value. SCs in TErminator plate with axes do it better, and ar about the same cost. The grenade launcher is just too good, as is slayer of tyrants, and free FGLTC.

I need to see how the points shake out. If this is what they are calling 110 points I'm scared to think what Trajann might end up costing.

I would like him a LOT more in the Heavy slot or Elite.


Dude, you literally don't even know his statline, not to mention all the abilities, relics, wlts, etc. What are you even talking about?


Dude, calm down. No need to get this internet tough over an argument. I don't see you calling out people who are saying this guy is amazing, not knowing the codex. But I call it garbage, and I'm the wrong one.
   
Made in at
Longtime Dakkanaut




FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
novembermike wrote:
FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
If I am being kind, he might act as a seriously dangerous D. Carnifex; unassuming single character, but he can get ugly very fast.

But my question is again, at the cost, and position, I don't see it being of much value. SCs in TErminator plate with axes do it better, and ar about the same cost. The grenade launcher is just too good, as is slayer of tyrants, and free FGLTC.

I need to see how the points shake out. If this is what they are calling 110 points I'm scared to think what Trajann might end up costing.

I would like him a LOT more in the Heavy slot or Elite.


Dude, you literally don't even know his statline, not to mention all the abilities, relics, wlts, etc. What are you even talking about?


Dude, calm down. No need to get this internet tough over an argument. I don't see you calling out people who are saying this guy is amazing, not knowing the codex. But I call it garbage, and I'm the wrong one.


Oh no, you didn't just say that. How intellectually dishonest can someone be in a conversation? It's mind boggling.

Nobody said the blade champion is the best thing ever and will blow every other character we have out of the water because of how awesome he is, while simultaneously fellating the rules team as you call its because GW can do no wrong.
All people said was that they either are waiting for the bigger picture or that they are cautiously optimistic until they see everything.

You are the only one who talks in extremes here and it's almost always in extreme negatives:

"we won't even get a codex, because why should GW bother with Custodes?"
"bikes will be crap and the rules won't be as broken as admech"

And when people get annoyed because you keep talking out of your ass even though many of them tired to cheer you up about the new codex release you come at them with intellectually dishonest arguments. Get a grip man.

And the worst part is that if the codex really turns out to be gak, there's a decent chance you'll get back here and say I told you so, because you completely missed the point.
   
Made in us
Been Around the Block




In all honesty I probably don't use the blade champion. It's going to be competing with Trajann, the various shield captains and the sisters character which all seem pretty good. That said, it still looks like a perfectly reasonable character and depending on warlord traits, relics, full stats, etc I still might end up playing it.

There's a principle that you don't need to have a fully formed opinion on something until you actually need to make a decision. I don't have to make any decisions here so I have declined having a strong opinion and I'm mostly talking in generalities. I'm certainly not saying that this guy is amazing, just that I haven't seen anything that looks bad.
   
Made in us
Been Around the Block




Updates from Shadow Throne:
https://www.reddit.com/r/WarhammerCompetitive/comments/rdd1bn/shadowthrone_custodes_rules_leak/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf

Text version:
Blade Champion

3+ Save [my disappointment is immense]

Friendly units get +1 to thier charge if he is all ready in that combat

Allarus Terminator Captain has 8 Wounds and is PL 7.

Prosecutors are PL 3

Vigilators are PL 4

Witchswekers do indeed have a Scout move and are movement 7.

All Sisters of Silence have the <Core> keyword

Vexilla in Allarus Terminator armor has 7 wounds and is PL 6.

The three banner types are:

A. Provides light cover to all units within 6"

B. Provides all units/models within 6" an additional attack

C. Provides heavy cover to all units within 6"

Allarus Terminators are 3PL each. The unit size is now 1-6.

Axe: +3STR AP-2 D2

Spear: +2STR AP-3 D2

Sword: +1STR AP-3 D2

Grenade Launcher is: 18" STR5 AP-3 D1 Assault d3

Allarus Terminators can pile into the nearest enemy character even if that character isn't the closest model but must end within engagement range of any unit they where previously in combat with.

So, PL3 is roughly 60 points. So, again roughly, an Allarus Terminator is now 60 points with the axe being an upgrade over the spear. And they come in squads of 1-6 now. Neat.

"EDIT: Sorry for the rushed write up yall. Im asking my wife to send me photos of the box from the house. I'm at work, so there will be some lag. I'll try to update this post as often as I can with any relevant information."

Allarus are T5 4W 4A 2+/4++
   
Made in us
Damsel of the Lady




Rivener wrote:
Updates from Shadow Throne:
https://www.reddit.com/r/WarhammerCompetitive/comments/rdd1bn/shadowthrone_custodes_rules_leak/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf

Text version:
Blade Champion

3+ Save [my disappointment is immense]

Friendly units get +1 to thier charge if he is all ready in that combat

Allarus Terminator Captain has 8 Wounds and is PL 7.

Prosecutors are PL 3

Vigilators are PL 4

Witchswekers do indeed have a Scout move and are movement 7.

All Sisters of Silence have the <Core> keyword

Vexilla in Allarus Terminator armor has 7 wounds and is PL 6.

The three banner types are:

A. Provides light cover to all units within 6"

B. Provides all units/models within 6" an additional attack

C. Provides heavy cover to all units within 6"

Allarus Terminators are 3PL each. The unit size is now 1-6.

Axe: +3STR AP-2 D2

Spear: +2STR AP-3 D2

Sword: +1STR AP-3 D2

Grenade Launcher is: 18" STR5 AP-3 D1 Assault d3

Allarus Terminators can pile into the nearest enemy character even if that character isn't the closest model but must end within engagement range of any unit they where previously in combat with.

So, PL3 is roughly 60 points. So, again roughly, an Allarus Terminator is now 60 points with the axe being an upgrade over the spear. And they come in squads of 1-6 now. Neat.

"EDIT: Sorry for the rushed write up yall. Im asking my wife to send me photos of the box from the house. I'm at work, so there will be some lag. I'll try to update this post as often as I can with any relevant information."

Allarus are T5 4W 4A 2+/4++


Quick correction: He already clarified that 'heavy cover' on the banner should be 'dense cover'.
   
Made in us
Never Forget Isstvan!






making the defensor give light and heavy cover would be pretty nice and reasonable.

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On to my actual thoughts:

Are resident leaker is right. Just more confirmation on that.

Without good stratagem support, I'm skeptical of Terminators being great units. Assuming storm shields remain the same, a big blob of Guardians seems great. Dreads + Jetbikes are the better mobile hammer units.
   
Made in us
Veteran Knight Baron in a Crusader





I just hate that we haven't seen a single leak and thought "wow that's gonna be really good." Everything seems overly complicated and/or situational. Can anyone tell me something about these leaks that's going to put us anywhere near the level of Dark Eldar, Orks, etc?
   
Made in us
Damsel of the Lady




 Toofast wrote:
I just hate that we haven't seen a single leak and thought "wow that's gonna be really good." Everything seems overly complicated and/or situational. Can anyone tell me something about these leaks that's going to put us anywhere near the level of Dark Eldar, Orks, etc?


We're already an A tier faction. Even a small buff can throw us into S. And there are some boosts here. That said, we're still waiting on quite a bit. WT's, Relics, Stratagems, the vast majority of our potential power sources are still unknown.
   
Made in us
Been Around the Block




 Toofast wrote:
I just hate that we haven't seen a single leak and thought "wow that's gonna be really good." Everything seems overly complicated and/or situational. Can anyone tell me something about these leaks that's going to put us anywhere near the level of Dark Eldar, Orks, etc?


We'll need to see all the rules come together but things like the shield host traits and ka'tah are a straight buff. We'll probably lose some things we have now but things like Sagittarum are basically going to be the same as they are now but they'll have a 4+++ vs mortals and a free re-roll each turn. Custodes are already good so these sorts of buffs are very promising.
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




 Toofast wrote:
I just hate that we haven't seen a single leak and thought "wow that's gonna be really good." Everything seems overly complicated and/or situational. Can anyone tell me something about these leaks that's going to put us anywhere near the level of Dark Eldar, Orks, etc?


Do we really want to be in that broken S tier faction of armies though? There's absolutely nothing wrong with sitting firmly in A tier as just a really good solid army, you really don't want all the heat that comes with being a busted army. And just because not a lot stuck out as immediately OP/broken at first glance doesn't mean there aren't some good combos to be had in our book, we haven't seen everything yet so we can't assume anything right now.
   
Made in us
Damsel of the Lady




Mr. Funktastic wrote:
 Toofast wrote:
I just hate that we haven't seen a single leak and thought "wow that's gonna be really good." Everything seems overly complicated and/or situational. Can anyone tell me something about these leaks that's going to put us anywhere near the level of Dark Eldar, Orks, etc?


Do we really want to be in that broken S tier faction of armies though? There's absolutely nothing wrong with sitting firmly in A tier as just a really good solid army, you really don't want all the heat that comes with being a busted army. And just because not a lot stuck out as immediately OP/broken at first glance doesn't mean there aren't some good combos to be had in our book, we haven't seen everything yet so we can't assume anything right now.


I absolutely want to be S tier because S tier armies are almost exclusively what I play against on the regular. I gotta compete with them, not the Tau.
   
Made in us
Been Around the Block




To be clear, S tier is generally "going to get nerfed" territory. I don't expect any of the current S tier to be there in a year. I'd rather have 3-4 years of consistently A tier performance than a year at S tier and 2-3 years at B or C.
   
Made in us
Damsel of the Lady




novembermike wrote:
To be clear, S tier is generally "going to get nerfed" territory. I don't expect any of the current S tier to be there in a year. I'd rather have 3-4 years of consistently A tier performance than a year at S tier and 2-3 years at B or C.


Druks have held onto S tier for about a year now, though I'll admit GW is trying. Still, it's not guaranteed!
   
Made in us
Morally-Flexible Malleus Hearing Whispers




I don't know if I am more dissapointed in the lack of damage for axes, or the nerf to 10 man Allarus bombs. I do think the Power levels are a good indicator that prices may be coming down?
   
Made in de
Mysterious Techpriest






well I was told by a little bird that Custodes power level is a few steps up almost everywhere.
I dont like the blade champion, the Katas look arse, the other leaks are uninspiring...
Based on what we know I personally dont see it - but I trust my source. So I try to hold the negative feelings back. Cant say I'm uber successful..

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Made in us
Veteran Knight Baron in a Crusader





 Thairne wrote:
well I was told by a little bird that Custodes power level is a few steps up almost everywhere.
I dont like the blade champion, the Katas look arse, the other leaks are uninspiring...
Based on what we know I personally dont see it - but I trust my source. So I try to hold the negative feelings back. Cant say I'm uber successful..


Those are my feelings. New blade champ is Captain Useless, katas can't be that strong because they're so situational and only last a turn, even if they are I absolutely hate the way they're implemented and doing extra bookkeeping, and I haven't seen any leaks of buffs that interest me. I bought a bunch of Custodes right before the leaks and they're still in the boxes. If the codex is just more of the same stuff we've seen so far, they will be going on ebay. If 9th continues to go in the direction of more bookkeeping than my CPA during tax season, I will just go back to playing only specialist games.
   
Made in de
Mighty Chosen Warrior of Chaos






 Toofast wrote:
 Thairne wrote:
well I was told by a little bird that Custodes power level is a few steps up almost everywhere.
I dont like the blade champion, the Katas look arse, the other leaks are uninspiring...
Based on what we know I personally dont see it - but I trust my source. So I try to hold the negative feelings back. Cant say I'm uber successful..


Those are my feelings. New blade champ is Captain Useless, katas can't be that strong because they're so situational and only last a turn, even if they are I absolutely hate the way they're implemented and doing extra bookkeeping, and I haven't seen any leaks of buffs that interest me. I bought a bunch of Custodes right before the leaks and they're still in the boxes. If the codex is just more of the same stuff we've seen so far, they will be going on ebay. If 9th continues to go in the direction of more bookkeeping than my CPA during tax season, I will just go back to playing only specialist games.


So army wide 4+++ against MW and free rerolls is not a buff?

Just saw is on discord:
Champion sprue pic
Spoiler:



data sheets from the box
Spoiler:

This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2021/12/11 00:33:56


 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut




I didn't realize he had options for his arm poses. That's awsome, especially for conversions. I also have to say I really like the look of the vault swords. So much better than the sentinel blades.

   
Made in us
Morally-Flexible Malleus Hearing Whispers




We knew it would be mono pose, but I'd love to see some scale. One of the best things about custodes is they are basically the size of Bullgryns, which might be the easiest models to paint. No minute details. This guy looks, smaller than the others. Is that just me?
   
Made in de
Mighty Chosen Warrior of Chaos






Trajann profile from reboxing
Spoiler:


8W, axe is 3 dmg now, 6 attacks
   
Made in us
Morally-Flexible Malleus Hearing Whispers




Also, What is Daughters of the Abyss? Is that the new name for Blank ability?

I thought the greatblades were S+3 or is that just that relic sword?

Are the sisters still 5-10 per?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Zero buffs to the Dagger I guess?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/12/11 00:36:48


 
   
Made in de
Mighty Chosen Warrior of Chaos






From the canhammer discord:

Allarus Shield Cap:
8W, 6A
Inspirational Fighter: Same reroll hit rolls of 1 aura except now it's Core only
Keywords: Infantry, Character, Teleport Homer, Terminator, Allarus, Shield-Captain

Vigilators:
Executioner Greatblades: S+2 AP-3 D2

Prosecutors:
No change, just Troops now

Allarus Vexilla:
Same wargear options, 7W
Vexilla Defensor (aura): When a friendly <SHILED HOST> Core or <SHILED HOST> Character unit is within 6" of this model, it has the benefits of light cover.
Vexilla Imperius (aura): When a friendly <SHILED HOST> Core or <SHILED HOST> Character unit is within 6" of this model, add 1 to the Attacks characteristic to the models in this unit.
Vexilla Magnifica (aura): When a friendly <SHILED HOST> Core or <SHILED HOST> Character unit is within 6" of this model, it has the benefits of dense cover.
Aquilan(?) Relic rule: Your army can only include each type of vexilla (e.g. vexilla magnifica) once.
Keywords: Infantry, Character, Teleport Homer, Terminator, Allarus, Vexilus Praetor


New stuff not including things we already know:
All Custodes units have the Aegis of the Emperor and Martial Katah rule

Blade Champ:
HQ choice
7W, 3+ save
Martial Inspiration: Each time a friendly <SHIELD HOST> unit declares a charge against an enemy unit that is within Engagement Range of this unit, add 1 to the charge roll made for that unit

All Sisters units have the Daughters of the Abyss rule, likely an all in one rule that includes Psychic Abomination since that rule isn't on their datasheet

Witchseeker:
Flamers are AP-1
Seeker Cadre: In the start of the first battle round before the first turn begins, this unit or one Anathema Psykana Transport unit it is embarked within can make a Normal Move at up to 6" as if it were your Movement phase. This unit must end their move more than 9" away from enemy models. If both players have units that can do this, the player who is taking the first turn moves their units first.

Allarus:
4W, 4A
Balistus Grenade Launcher: 18" Assault D3 S5 AP-3 D1 Blast
Axes are S+3 AP-2 D2
Keywords: Infantry, Core, Teleport Homer, Terminator, Allarus, Custodians (yes, Allarus and Custodians are separate keywords)

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/12/11 12:04:48


 
   
Made in us
Never Forget Isstvan!






Im disapointed the witchseekers scout move is only 6". They have a 7" base move and the rhino can move. Why limit it to 6" from your deployment zone?

We needed actual infiltrators but all we got is a shuffle.

Ap-1 on the flamers is great though. I might use mine now for real. I can take 5 in a rhino with 5 prosecutors and be in a pretty decent position at the start of the game.

Allarus going down in points, getting +1str and +6" range on the grenade launchers, and going down in points is pretty good. Along with spears going to str7 I think they are in a good spot. I think the reason they are going to 1-6 unit size is because a block of 10 coming down in the double shoot ka'tah would be a bit insane (here take 40 MC bolter shots at 28" and 20d3 grenade shots with blast at 22" away).

Bikes going to 5 wounds is gonna help alot as well. 5 is in a place where they dont automatically get instagibbed by anti-tank weaponry and damage 2 is pretty inefficient. They arent scared at all of chip damage either.

All characters getting +1 W and A was expected and kinda nessecary for what we pay for them.

I also understand the vexilla changes. The magnifica was substantially better than the other 2 and the defensor was useless before, with this they are pretty much all balanced and will probably cost the same. Ignores cover is a big hit to them now, but dense still stacks with other dense so for armies without ignore cover we are still in a pretty good spot. I just wish the defensor gave light and heavy cover.

Daughters of the Abyss is the new psychic abomination rule yes, and probably reduces Ld like in 30k. Makes alot of sense with custodes going to Ld11.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/12/11 08:46:34


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Just so we are clear, Executioner Greatblades cut through armor BETTER than a Custodian Wielding a freaking axe made of space magic. Also, they do just as much damage as a spear, axe, and lance. I don't get it. Axes should do more, and cost more.

Honestly, I am thinking now that Terminators with Spears are now the best killyness. If the +1 to wound strat survives, there is zero reason to take axes. Wardens with spears are now better than Wardens with axes.

Also, does limited edition mean that the only way to get a Blade Champion from GW now is to buy this box?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/12/11 16:04:39


 
   
Made in us
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Well im thinking now that axes will not cost any additional points possibly.

+1str and -1AP is really only worth 2 points.

Axes are still better against the majority of things because strength 8 is a very good place to be and alot of things have an invun.

If you still have to pay 5 points for the upgrade however I expect a change to the strats.

If spears keep the +1 to wound strat then Castellan strike will need to be buffed to +1D instead of +1 AP.


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Vigo. Spain.

So Custodes two handed axes are worse than a space marine power fist. Ok.

 Crimson Devil wrote:

Dakka does have White Knights and is also rather infamous for it's Black Knights. A new edition brings out the passionate and not all of them are good at expressing themselves in written form. There have been plenty of hysterical responses from both sides so far. So we descend into pointless bickering with neither side listening to each other. So posting here becomes more masturbation than conversation.

ERJAK wrote:
Forcing a 40k player to keep playing 7th is basically a hate crime.

 
   
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In My Lab

 Galas wrote:
So Custodes two handed axes are worse than a space marine power fist. Ok.
I mean, they lose a point of AP, but also lose the -1 hit penalty.

So, if we compare a Castellan Axe hitting on a 2+ to a Power Fist hitting on a 4+ to a couple of Armor Save values...
The second percentage number is if the Fist hits on a 3+, not a 4+.

Spoiler:
5+ Or Worse Save
Both cut through the save entirely. Axe is 167% as effective. (125%)

4+ Save
Power Fist negates save entirely, Axe allows a 6+. Axe is 139% as effective. (104%)

3+ Save
Fist gives a 6+, Axe gives a 5+. Axe is 133% as effective. (100%)

2+ Save
Fist gives a 5+, Axe gives a 4+. Axe is 125% as effective. (94%)

1+ Save
Fist gives a 4+, Axe gives a 3+. Axe is 111% as effective. (83%)

0+ Save
Fist gives a 3+, Axe gives a 2+. Axe is 83% as effective. (63%)


So, compared to a Sergeant with a Power Fist, a Custode with an Axe is only less effective if the target has a 0+ save in melee. Dunno if that's possible right now.
Compared to a Captain with a Power Fist, they're equally as effective against a 3+ save, and worse as the save gets better. But even against a 1+ save (like Termis with Storm Shields) they're close to as good.

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