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 Ferrum_Sanguinis wrote:

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
I don't see us remaining a B tier if we don't see any massive points buffs. Right now we lose to almost every Meta matchup, HARD. Right now we have the most expensive, least threatening units in the game. Our basic troop unit is 50ppm, and has very little offensive power (which is the name of the game in 9th) to show for it. What good is a 2+4++ 4W stat line if you can't kill anything and get shot off the table very efficiently?

Jesus, are you always like this?

Don't feed the troll.

 Grimskul wrote:
Yuuuuup, whole ya'll like Eldar master race. Even if they manage to kick DE out of the running, another Eldar shall take its place.

Some flavor of eldar has been the best army in the game for three quarters of the game's life. Eldar are usually the OP race.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Third_Age_of_Baggz wrote:
Come on guys! Stop lamenting about our faction before they even get their new codex. The latest Meta Watch even shows that the Custards are still pretty damn good and that’s still 8th codex. I’m not going to cry over Eldar that don’t exist yet.

Back on point, I think Wardens are going to be a thing for sure if they get a points drop.

Custards are a gatekeeper. Which is fine unless you want to regularly podium, in which case it isn't fine.

The new book maybe make them compete. But the rules look really clunky.

stratigo wrote:

 Grimskul wrote:
Yuuuuup, whole ya'll like Eldar master race. Even if they manage to kick DE out of the running, another Eldar shall take its place.

Some flavor of eldar has been the best army in the game for three quarters of the game's life. Eldar are usually the OP race.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Third_Age_of_Baggz wrote:
Come on guys! Stop lamenting about our faction before they even get their new codex. The latest Meta Watch even shows that the Custards are still pretty damn good and that’s still 8th codex. I’m not going to cry over Eldar that don’t exist yet.

Back on point, I think Wardens are going to be a thing for sure if they get a points drop.

Custards are a gatekeeper. Which is fine unless you want to regularly podium, in which case it isn't fine.

The new book maybe make them compete. But the rules look really clunky.

I don't get this gatekeeper or 'we suck' mentality in this thread. We're a very strong faction even without our Codex. Some examples:

Custodes - 1st Place at Gameology Pasadena Old-Town Showdown GT
Custodes - 2nd Place at Maple City GT
Custodes - 2nd Place at Legion Events November
Custodes - 2nd Place at Ogre's Den Grand Tournament
Custodes - 2nd Place at Paragon City Games Lightly Salted GT
Custodes - 3rd Place at Merry Slaaneshmas
Custodes - 3rd Place at YHP Fall Brawl
Custodes - 6th Place at UKTC Coventry 3-Day Event (Major) (went 7-1)
Custodes - 7th and 10th Places at New Orleans Open (Major) (both finished 5-1)
Custodes - 9th Place at Invasion (Major) (finished 4-1)
Custodes Soup - 10th Place at Westminster Hobbytown GT (Major) (finished 4-1)

That's not gatekeeper performance. That's not weak performance. That's just events from November 11 to present! It's a month! There's 7 podium finishes there!

Audustum wrote:

That's not gatekeeper performance. That's not weak performance. That's just events from November 11 to present! It's a month! There's 7 podium finishes there!

I totally agree. And i think too many people here think that the army is the main reason someone places high in a tournament but it is mostly the player. if you are a really good plyer you can win a tournament with a B-tier or lower army. on the other hand if you are a averege player can't win ven with a S-tier army.

See, I agree on that to a point.

Custodes problem lies in the fact that certain armies utterly nueter our preformance and the fact that its almost impossible to score max points on some of the missions.

You certainly can win tournaments with custodes, if you dont get bad matchups or even tough matchups on certain missions.

If you go to a RTT and never play one of the 2 domination style missions for example you can absolutely smash.

If you do a 5 or 6 game GT and somehow get easy matchups on the 2 domination missions you can also win.

If you play against DG, orks, and necrons the whole tournament you will not win said tournament no matter who you are. Even if you win the games, they will force your score low enough that you wont finish top table.

I don't mind waiting until february for the codex but I'm so disappointed that GW decided to stop selling just the online version. As a company I think you should also help the environment! People will always find ways to pirate anything.

Spado wrote:
I don't mind waiting until february for the codex but I'm so disappointed that GW decided to stop selling just the online version. As a company I think you should also help the environment! People will always find ways to pirate anything.

Its not to stop pirating, pre se, it's that the profit margin on hard copy books is too great to miss out on.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Spado wrote:
I don't mind waiting until february for the codex but I'm so disappointed that GW decided to stop selling just the online version. As a company I think you should also help the environment! People will always find ways to pirate anything.

Its not to stop pirating, pre se, it's that the profit margin on hard copy books is too great to miss out on.

It can't be higher than the profit margin on a PDF

Yeah, printing a full 5k high gloss color codecs costs way more than just uploading a one time .PDF doc. Not to mention you can skip all the BS about "Shipping delays". Non-PDF during covid is the clearest proof that GW doesn't care about the consumer.

Has there been any discussion on whether "always wounds on an x+" skips FNP Rolls? Asking for the BC.

Spado wrote:
I don't mind waiting until february for the codex but I'm so disappointed that GW decided to stop selling just the online version. As a company I think you should also help the environment! People will always find ways to pirate anything.

No paper product available in the US has been made from a deforested tree since 1986, and trees farms provide a net environmental good, so going paperless isn't all it's cracked up to be.
Mm

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
Yeah, printing a full 5k high gloss color codecs costs way more than just uploading a one time .PDF doc. Not to mention you can skip all the BS about "Shipping delays". Non-PDF during covid is the clearest proof that GW doesn't care about the consumer.

Has there been any discussion on whether "always wounds on an x+" skips FNP Rolls? Asking for the BC.

why would it?

mechanically, the FNP save happens at the point of the damage being applied to the units wounds, ie, after the (auto)successful wound roll, and failed armour/invunerable save. "always wounds" abilities dont bypass armour automatically, though many do come with hefty AP stats. but either way, "always wounds on X" abilities just let you ignore certain str vs toughness penalties or "minus to wound" abilities.

The "Custodes are winning tournaments" argument is largely irrelevant. Custodes forgeworld units are winning tournaments. That has almost nothing to do with the state of our codex.
Drukari codex units are clobbering us. New Tyranid rules for codex units are going to obliterate us. People aren't upset that the Custodes FACTION is bad, we just want a better CODEX. We want better internal balance. We want what DE have, in that while there are stronger and weaker choices, there aren't any really bad ones. I should be taking forgeworld because it's cool, not because it's critical to success.

Mad_Proctologist wrote:
The "Custodes are winning tournaments" argument is largely irrelevant. Custodes forgeworld units are winning tournaments. That has almost nothing to do with the state of our codex.
Drukari codex units are clobbering us. New Tyranid rules for codex units are going to obliterate us. People aren't upset that the Custodes FACTION is bad, we just want a better CODEX. We want better internal balance. We want what DE have, in that while there are stronger and weaker choices, there aren't any really bad ones. I should be taking forgeworld because it's cool, not because it's critical to success.

That's a good point. Any Custodes army doing well in tournaments is doing well because their entire army is made up of FW units outside a bike captain, unit of guard and maybe a unit of bikes. The competitive units in Custodes are Venatari, FW dreads, Sagitarrum, and a build with the Ares gunship. If you just took units from our codex, you would be lucky to win more than 1 game in an entire weekend at a GT

Mad_Proctologist wrote:
The "Custodes are winning tournaments" argument is largely irrelevant. Custodes forgeworld units are winning tournaments. That has almost nothing to do with the state of our codex.
Drukari codex units are clobbering us. New Tyranid rules for codex units are going to obliterate us. People aren't upset that the Custodes FACTION is bad, we just want a better CODEX. We want better internal balance. We want what DE have, in that while there are stronger and weaker choices, there aren't any really bad ones. I should be taking forgeworld because it's cool, not because it's critical to success.

FW is written by GW. They're basically the same thing (aside from price tag and ease of assembly). That said, since I also play DE: There's lots of bad stuff in there (run pure Kabal and see how it works out, most people generally frown on Realspace Raids cause they're not great too, thicc city was slightly buffed at the same time 'traditional DE' was nerfed which helped push it to prominence). While we all want better internal balance, but DE are not perfect.

Can we stop conflating GW with FW? Do GW codexes mention FW units? Does GW put out grossly overpowered units comparable to the FW units? Does GW sell single models at 200-300 dollars a piece? Does GW have any Banned units from Tournament? No.

FW is not equal to GW just because they are owned by the same shareholders. FW is for competitive players with far too much money, and GW is for getting people addicted. FW is a far better company as they at least make their rules in PDF form still. And they don't update them a week after you buy them, making them invalid.

It's a fair point that if you want to competitively succeed with Custodes, you either need to play 100% boring shield list, or go FW with Dreads and Sag.

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
Do GW codexes mention FW units? Does GW put out grossly overpowered units comparable to the FW units? Does GW sell single models at 200-300 dollars a piece? Does GW have any Banned units from Tournament?

In order...

No.
Yes.
Yes.
And not at official GW tournaments, but neither does FW.

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
Can we stop conflating GW with FW? Do GW codexes mention FW units? Does GW put out grossly overpowered units comparable to the FW units? Does GW sell single models at 200-300 dollars a piece? Does GW have any Banned units from Tournament? No.

FW is not equal to GW just because they are owned by the same shareholders. FW is for competitive players with far too much money, and GW is for getting people addicted. FW is a far better company as they at least make their rules in PDF form still. And they don't update them a week after you buy them, making them invalid.

It's a fair point that if you want to competitively succeed with Custodes, you either need to play 100% boring shield list, or go FW with Dreads and Sag.

For a bit over a year now I think FW and GW have the same rules writers for 40k. The Custodes FW stuff is the GW rules team. That's part of my point. So yes, I'd say absolutely comparable.

Audustum wrote:

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
Can we stop conflating GW with FW? Do GW codexes mention FW units? Does GW put out grossly overpowered units comparable to the FW units? Does GW sell single models at 200-300 dollars a piece? Does GW have any Banned units from Tournament? No.

FW is not equal to GW just because they are owned by the same shareholders. FW is for competitive players with far too much money, and GW is for getting people addicted. FW is a far better company as they at least make their rules in PDF form still. And they don't update them a week after you buy them, making them invalid.

It's a fair point that if you want to competitively succeed with Custodes, you either need to play 100% boring shield list, or go FW with Dreads and Sag.

For a bit over a year now I think FW and GW have the same rules writers for 40k. The Custodes FW stuff is the GW rules team. That's part of my point. So yes, I'd say absolutely comparable.

Can you show me where Custodes FW units got a rules update? Because aside from points cost, I don't think there has been one. The leaker indicated we would not be getting FW rolled into this codex either, so then that leads me to believe we are still going off the last rules for our FW units, which are basically the 8th rules. This is why it's frustrating. If our infantry is supposed to get this +1 wound across the board, but we don't have a FW rules update, then it really kills Sag/Aquilons right? Unless this is an ability that we get via the keyword, which is a dumb idea.

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:

Audustum wrote:

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
Can we stop conflating GW with FW? Do GW codexes mention FW units? Does GW put out grossly overpowered units comparable to the FW units? Does GW sell single models at 200-300 dollars a piece? Does GW have any Banned units from Tournament? No.

FW is not equal to GW just because they are owned by the same shareholders. FW is for competitive players with far too much money, and GW is for getting people addicted. FW is a far better company as they at least make their rules in PDF form still. And they don't update them a week after you buy them, making them invalid.

It's a fair point that if you want to competitively succeed with Custodes, you either need to play 100% boring shield list, or go FW with Dreads and Sag.

For a bit over a year now I think FW and GW have the same rules writers for 40k. The Custodes FW stuff is the GW rules team. That's part of my point. So yes, I'd say absolutely comparable.

Can you show me where Custodes FW units got a rules update? Because aside from points cost, I don't think there has been one. The leaker indicated we would not be getting FW rolled into this codex either, so then that leads me to believe we are still going off the last rules for our FW units, which are basically the 8th rules. This is why it's frustrating. If our infantry is supposed to get this +1 wound across the board, but we don't have a FW rules update, then it really kills Sag/Aquilons right? Unless this is an ability that we get via the keyword, which is a dumb idea.

I don't think +1W across the board is happening. Custodian Guard and Allarus are the same wounds as always. GW's rules team wrote the Forgeworld: Imperial Armour for 9th Edition I believe. That's all them.

Ok, so playing around with the new stuff, i have devised the following list until the codex drops that seems fun and not the same old same old.



Starts with 10 CP, has decent mobility with the witchseekers and bike captain. Start 2/3 allarus, the vexilla, and the aquillons in deep strike. Name your bike captain the target for praetorian plate. Secondaries should be kill focused, banners, and behind enemy lines. You can certainly run this as Dread host and spend a CP to give blade champ or vexilla ASA, or keep as shadowkeepers and give blade champ lockwarden.

Note that you can also drop one HK missle to give your sagg guard misers if you want.

Do Sag work with the Prosecutor troops rule? I thought it was only "Guardians" but I very likely misread it.

Also, until we get confirmation on Aquilon prices, I would stick with the Regular Terminators with Spears. Better utility and support. Or to save points just go Wardens and give them spears. I don't really see the value in Terminators right now if axes stay 2D. Unless they get a massive drop in points (-15) I don't see them being the big beater boys that we've needed in the past. Also, wardens cost half as much and if they keep the rumor that we are losing the +1 to Invuln but getting a 4+++ against Mortals, I but the wardens just get +1 to that. So a they might be our most deadly for the cost options, given the +1 to wound strat. We still wound t8s on a 4+.

Good point on the sagg guard, hadnt thought about that.

The list is using current points cost so can be ran right now.

No axes in the list actually.

 Eihnlazer wrote:
Good point on the sagg guard, hadnt thought about that.

The list is using current points cost so can be ran right now.

No axes in the list actually.

My mistake, I saw Spear x1, and had a brainfart, thinking 2x axes, 1x spear. I keep forgetting they can be units of 1 now.

 Toofast wrote:
It can't be higher than the profit margin on a PDF

GW can't figure out PDFs. Like even their electronic copies are this horrible epub that works with like two outdated programs.

Well, I mean, if they release a propriatary system that reads their documents, say an app of somesort, that has a pay wall to see the rules, that you also still have to buy, surely that would work right?

WE COULD CALL IT THE WARHAMMER APP.

Preview for our crusade rules:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2021/12/23/collect-hundreds-of-names-to-avoid-dishonour-with-these-custodes-crusade-rules/

So we know Avenge the fallen and Slayer of Nightmares stratagems still exist which is great. I really like Avenge the fallen i hope it stays the same.

Avenge the fallen might change a bit. I heard alot of complaints about it being fairly useless. Like who used 10 man squads of custodes?

Even I have only used it once. Its only good on a unit that looses 3+ models in one turn, so almost never.

If they change it to be +3 attacks per model if any guy in the squad dies, it'll get used but not sure about how else you could change it.

Avenge the Fallen is an extremely situational ability that was an intended way to allow high cost large units 6-9 bikes, or 6-10 terminators, to make back a fraction of their points, by being a sort of Devil's Bargain. If you close them up in melee and smash them, they get even stronger on the next turn. If three Terminators die in a squad of 8, thats 8 attacks per terminator. Its kinda fallen by the wayside, as no one takes large units anymore. Or ever, now with reduced squad caps.

I say toss it in the rubbish heap and give us an exploding 5s in melee.

Also, is it just me or did we not get a "structure/fortification"? I thought GW was giving every faction a fortification?

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:


Also, is it just me or did we not get a "structure/fortification"? I thought GW was giving every faction a fortification?

Oh, of fortification? Dang, that's actually something that had slipped my mind. What would a Custodes Fortification even look like? Would we have a giant Aquillan shaped drop-building somewhat similar to that god awful space marine thing?

Custodes wouldnt have a fortification, but SoS might.

Imagine a Pagoda like building covered in antannae's they can stand in that would make their Daughters of the Abyss ability cover the whole table.