Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

 Eihnlazer wrote:
Avenge the fallen might change a bit. I heard alot of complaints about it being fairly useless. Like who used 10 man squads of custodes?

Even I have only used it once. Its only good on a unit that looses 3+ models in one turn, so almost never.

If they change it to be +3 attacks per model if any guy in the squad dies, it'll get used but not sure about how else you could change it.

You wouldn't run 10-men strong units, but Venatari were run at 5-6 strong and there were attempts to make Terminators or Bikes run in larger blobs. The strat wasn't amazing, but it did play off the strength that opponents need to really commit to wipe out a moderately sized Custodes unit. I often found that the strat helped me put a much better dent in Bladeguard/Skorpekhs/Deathshrouds after weathering a round of shooting and the charge, mitigating the loss of some of our relatively low volume of attacks. .

2 Venatari left/6 goes from just 6 attacks to a meatier 14 and that definitely makes a difference.

My personal favorite unit to use it with was a 5-model strong Sag Guard unit with knives that would often screen Trajann + Vexilla + any Dreads. They're already pretty decent at 4 attacks if they get charged and the strat + interventions helps make sure they take more down with them.

 Eihnlazer wrote:
Custodes wouldnt have a fortification, but SoS might.

Imagine a Pagoda like building covered in antannae's they can stand in that would make their Daughters of the Abyss ability cover the whole table.

I guess I could see them getting a Statue of the Emperor or some form of monument/sacred thing. Also, SoS having a psychic channeling tower would be BOSS. But they would have already told us about that if it were true. No, I think GW passed us over on the "every faction gets a unique fortification" thing. I mean, we might get something, but I doubt it'll be unique to us.

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:

 Eihnlazer wrote:
Custodes wouldnt have a fortification, but SoS might.

Imagine a Pagoda like building covered in antannae's they can stand in that would make their Daughters of the Abyss ability cover the whole table.

I guess I could see them getting a Statue of the Emperor or some form of monument/sacred thing. Also, SoS having a psychic channeling tower would be BOSS. But they would have already told us about that if it were true. No, I think GW passed us over on the "every faction gets a unique fortification" thing. I mean, we might get something, but I doubt it'll be unique to us.

Was it even a thing? I don't remember anything DEldar or Orks got (DEldar just steal the web webway portal that was released for Craftworld)

Orks got the Gargant head

 cuda1179 wrote:
Orks got the Gargant head

Aha!

Anyone got any games in with the blade champion? It's still the old codex, sure but there are some fun things we can do with him in my opinion.

For example the peerless warrior warlord trait seems to fit him very well, especially with the hurricanis profile. So every 6 is an extra attack, and every attack with the hurricanis profile is 2 hit rolls instead of 1.
If then you also have another character with the all-seeing annihilator trait, every 6s to hit on the hurricanis profile is essentially 3 extra hits.

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
Can we stop conflating GW with FW? Do GW codexes mention FW units? Does GW put out grossly overpowered units comparable to the FW units? Does GW sell single models at 200-300 dollars a piece? Does GW have any Banned units from Tournament? No.

No, Yes and even vastly more so(you might note tournaments are won with plastic models. This is INTENTIONAL and as GW makes rules they want the plastic to be OP as plastic has waaaaaaaaaay bigger profit margin. GW has been nerfing resin to death to ensure plastic is the OP) and only idiot TO's ban FW units.

You have to be pretty big noob to have grind against FW. Zero idea about realities of current 40k.

tneva82 wrote:

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
Can we stop conflating GW with FW? Do GW codexes mention FW units? Does GW put out grossly overpowered units comparable to the FW units? Does GW sell single models at 200-300 dollars a piece? Does GW have any Banned units from Tournament? No.

No, Yes and even vastly more so(you might note tournaments are won with plastic models. This is INTENTIONAL and as GW makes rules they want the plastic to be OP as plastic has waaaaaaaaaay bigger profit margin. GW has been nerfing resin to death to ensure plastic is the OP) and only idiot TO's ban FW units.

You have to be pretty big noob to have grind against FW. Zero idea about realities of current 40k.

So you do know then that for a lot of 8th, certain IH FW Dread lists were outright banned at several majors, right? I don't know when you started following the scene and don't want to assume, but I'd be slow to call FLG (which banned the IH lists at several of their games) a "bunch of noobs" when it comes to competitive Wargamming, seeing as they pretty much dragged 40k into a competitive market. Also, LVO banned the IH dredd stuff.

Can you please point to me where GW updated a FW unit in a 9th edition faction codex? Because I haven't seen any in the SM ones. And by updated I mean: points cost, unit value changes, rules/abilities modified, etc. It was my understanding that GW was specifically avoiding updating the FW line, because they want that to be in the Imperial Armory book.

GW doesn't sell a single model in the 1k range currently on their store. FW sells multiple.

tneva82 wrote:

No, Yes and even vastly more so(you might note tournaments are won with plastic models. This is INTENTIONAL and as GW makes rules they want the plastic to be OP as plastic has waaaaaaaaaay bigger profit margin. GW has been nerfing resin to death to ensure plastic is the OP) and only idiot TO's ban FW units.

You have to be pretty big noob to have grind against FW. Zero idea about realities of current 40k.

How many tournaments have Custodes won in 9th without using a bunch of FW models? Every list I've seen in a top 3 at any size tournament was running Telemon, Sagi, and Venatari, or the list with the Ares. Our 4 best models in terms of power level are all FW. I guess FLG are a bunch of "idiot TOs" and should give you a ring so you can share your wisdom about the power level of FW vs GW. I can't even believe someone in a Custodes thread of all armies is saying that tournaments are won with plastic models. While that might be true for every other faction, go to a GT with a plastic-only Custodes army and let us all know how you did...

 Toofast wrote:

tneva82 wrote:

No, Yes and even vastly more so(you might note tournaments are won with plastic models. This is INTENTIONAL and as GW makes rules they want the plastic to be OP as plastic has waaaaaaaaaay bigger profit margin. GW has been nerfing resin to death to ensure plastic is the OP) and only idiot TO's ban FW units.

You have to be pretty big noob to have grind against FW. Zero idea about realities of current 40k.

How many tournaments have Custodes won in 9th without using a bunch of FW models? Every list I've seen in a top 3 at any size tournament was running Telemon, Sagi, and Venatari, or the list with the Ares. Our 4 best models in terms of power level are all FW. I guess FLG are a bunch of "idiot TOs" and should give you a ring so you can share your wisdom about the power level of FW vs GW. I can't even believe someone in a Custodes thread of all armies is saying that tournaments are won with plastic models. While that might be true for every other faction, go to a GT with a plastic-only Custodes army and let us all know how you did...

I don't know if they were 1st place wins or not, but we had some top finishes in nothing minor tournies with the "All Shields" lists. Where you basically just run all troops with sword and board, and captains, and just camp objectives. That's 100% plastic, but I don't know what if any 1st place tops they got with those.

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:

 Toofast wrote:

tneva82 wrote:

No, Yes and even vastly more so(you might note tournaments are won with plastic models. This is INTENTIONAL and as GW makes rules they want the plastic to be OP as plastic has waaaaaaaaaay bigger profit margin. GW has been nerfing resin to death to ensure plastic is the OP) and only idiot TO's ban FW units.

You have to be pretty big noob to have grind against FW. Zero idea about realities of current 40k.

How many tournaments have Custodes won in 9th without using a bunch of FW models? Every list I've seen in a top 3 at any size tournament was running Telemon, Sagi, and Venatari, or the list with the Ares. Our 4 best models in terms of power level are all FW. I guess FLG are a bunch of "idiot TOs" and should give you a ring so you can share your wisdom about the power level of FW vs GW. I can't even believe someone in a Custodes thread of all armies is saying that tournaments are won with plastic models. While that might be true for every other faction, go to a GT with a plastic-only Custodes army and let us all know how you did...

I don't know if they were 1st place wins or not, but we had some top finishes in nothing minor tournies with the "All Shields" lists. Where you basically just run all troops with sword and board, and captains, and just camp objectives. That's 100% plastic, but I don't know what if any 1st place tops they got with those.

Yeah I'm scratching my head too and I can't quite remember. It was a very powerful all plastic list though. Boring as crud to play as for the Custodes player according to its inventor though (I know that part isn't relevant).

Also, take a look at the new Eldar leaks. If those make it to launch, their troops now boast a 5++ Howling Bansees are now S4 an get an extra attack. That means 5 attacks on the charge per model at S5, ap3 d3. Oh, and they get +1 to wound on the charge. For 13 points. Good grief.

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
Also, take a look at the new Eldar leaks. If those make it to launch, their troops now boast a 5++ Howling Bansees are now S4 an get an extra attack. That means 5 attacks on the charge per model at S5, ap3 d3. Oh, and they get +1 to wound on the charge. For 13 points. Good grief.

Don't get me wrong, I have a feeling they're going to continue the trend of making Eldar very strong with their codex release this edition, but Howling Banshees are hardly the aspect to worry about. It sounds like they're likely S4 base with the power sword, and right now they're 2A base, so an additional attack would mean 3 attacks. Also, not sure where you're getting D3 damage from, but they have normal, non-master-crafted power swords. So they'll be wounding most infantry on 4's, 3's for most marine equivalents. So they're decent but not particularly great against multi-wound models, the attacks last ability seems much more important in setting up a combo charge for guys like Shining Spears. I also guarantee its very unlikely that Banshees stay at their current points cost with all the abilities they have stacked right now (they're also currently 15 points a gal, not 13).

I'd be more concerned about Wraith units, Wave Serpent Spam and psychic shenanigans.

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:


Can you please point to me where GW updated a FW unit in a 9th edition faction codex? Because I haven't seen any in the SM ones. And by updated I mean: points cost, unit value changes, rules/abilities modified, etc. It was my understanding that GW was specifically avoiding updating the FW line, because they want that to be in the Imperial Armory book.

Er, yhea, they do that. Like, the imperial armour book has a Faq/errata page like any other codex.

For a specific change, I know the necrons Canoptek Acanthrites got granted CORE during the dataslate, and the Dreadclaw and Kharybdis Drop Pods got FAQd back in june, so yes, they do modify them.

I can't remember any specific examples of FW getting points changes but their is every chance they will during the upcoming field manual update. and this is seperate to the routine errata upon codex release that brings army rules into like with the new codex (ie gaining the martial kata ability)

 Grimskul wrote:

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
Also, take a look at the new Eldar leaks. If those make it to launch, their troops now boast a 5++ Howling Bansees are now S4 an get an extra attack. That means 5 attacks on the charge per model at S5, ap3 d3. Oh, and they get +1 to wound on the charge. For 13 points. Good grief.

Don't get me wrong, I have a feeling they're going to continue the trend of making Eldar very strong with their codex release this edition, but Howling Banshees are hardly the aspect to worry about. It sounds like they're likely S4 base with the power sword, and right now they're 2A base, so an additional attack would mean 3 attacks. Also, not sure where you're getting D3 damage from, but they have normal, non-master-crafted power swords. So they'll be wounding most infantry on 4's, 3's for most marine equivalents. So they're decent but not particularly great against multi-wound models, the attacks last ability seems much more important in setting up a combo charge for guys like Shining Spears. I also guarantee its very unlikely that Banshees stay at their current points cost with all the abilities they have stacked right now (they're also currently 15 points a gal, not 13).

I'd be more concerned about Wraith units, Wave Serpent Spam and psychic shenanigans.

The leaks say +1 attack, and I thought they get +1 more on the charge, apologies if I am getting this confused with another unit. I just think it's kinda hilarious nowadays justifying keeping "Elite" armies at "Elite points cost" when several factions are getting elite level troops that can do elite things, and cost less than 20ppm. I'm not saying they are all Warlord Titans, but 15ppm for all their silliness is funny.

The biggest difference is that banshees are toughness 3, 1 wound and 4+ save....which in the current meta is rather fragile. Sure, they can punch hard but they cant take punches.

Now, do custodes pay over the odds for their durability? Maybe, but that's separate from how much the banshees pay for that level of attack ability on that fragile a platform.

A flat 5++ is given now to all aspects, according to the leaker.

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
A flat 5++ is given now to all aspects, according to the leaker.

It takes less than five Bolter shots, hitting on a 3+ and allowing a 4+ save, to kill one Banshee.
It takes three times the amount to do a single wound to a Custode, if a 3+ is allowed for save.

This railgun might single handidly push me off of dreadnoughts and on to more infantry:

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2021/12/29/nobody-is-safe-from-the-awesome-power-of-the-tau-empires-new-and-improved-railgun/

Assuming Tau become popular in the meta.

It really depends if GW limits the HH in numbers in any significant way, but they're definitely going to be a hard counter to the dread spam lists going around in the current scene.

 Grimskul wrote:
It really depends if GW limits the HH in numbers in any significant way, but they're definitely going to be a hard counter to the dread spam lists going around in the current scene.

Even just 3 HH's should do it I think. Three firing together is averaging 13.75ish damage even against a Telemon (my math will be a little off but that should be a pretty close idea). This is assuming no strat/HQ support of any kind, just the 'naked' models.

The bigger issue is to the Achillus/Galatus. Switching to 2+ to Wound hurts and takes the average to about 20 wounds, meaning they can realistically pop two of these Dreads per turn with enough consistency to make the Shield Boys have a sad day.

They'll pop infantry too but it's a much bigger waste of their shot due to overkill. 4W infantry are especially good because you resolve MW before regular damage, so the 3 damage gets eaten to take the model to 1W and then all the giant damage after that is overkill.

Well, good news is we finally have an answer to the "What kills mortarian?" thread!

A Triple hammerhead list.

Audustum wrote:

 Grimskul wrote:
It really depends if GW limits the HH in numbers in any significant way, but they're definitely going to be a hard counter to the dread spam lists going around in the current scene.

Even just 3 HH's should do it I think. Three firing together is averaging 13.75ish damage even against a Telemon (my math will be a little off but that should be a pretty close idea). This is assuming no strat/HQ support of any kind, just the 'naked' models.

The bigger issue is to the Achillus/Galatus. Switching to 2+ to Wound hurts and takes the average to about 20 wounds, meaning they can realistically pop two of these Dreads per turn with enough consistency to make the Shield Boys have a sad day.

They'll pop infantry too but it's a much bigger waste of their shot due to overkill. 4W infantry are especially good because you resolve MW before regular damage, so the 3 damage gets eaten to take the model to 1W and then all the giant damage after that is overkill.

I think that it's 44/9 wounds PER Hammerhead on a Telemon. 3 mortal wounds plus D3+6 damage (averaged out to be 8), no invulnerable saves. If these things hit and make a wound they will at least severely neuter whatever is their target.

 cuda1179 wrote:

Audustum wrote:

 Grimskul wrote:
It really depends if GW limits the HH in numbers in any significant way, but they're definitely going to be a hard counter to the dread spam lists going around in the current scene.

Even just 3 HH's should do it I think. Three firing together is averaging 13.75ish damage even against a Telemon (my math will be a little off but that should be a pretty close idea). This is assuming no strat/HQ support of any kind, just the 'naked' models.

The bigger issue is to the Achillus/Galatus. Switching to 2+ to Wound hurts and takes the average to about 20 wounds, meaning they can realistically pop two of these Dreads per turn with enough consistency to make the Shield Boys have a sad day.

They'll pop infantry too but it's a much bigger waste of their shot due to overkill. 4W infantry are especially good because you resolve MW before regular damage, so the 3 damage gets eaten to take the model to 1W and then all the giant damage after that is overkill.

I think that it's 44/9 wounds PER Hammerhead on a Telemon. 3 mortal wounds plus D3+6 damage (averaged out to be 8), no invulnerable saves. If these things hit and make a wound they will at least severely neuter whatever is their target.

There you go. They're gonna hit mighty hard.

Audustum wrote:
This railgun might single handidly push me off of dreadnoughts and on to more infantry:

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2021/12/29/nobody-is-safe-from-the-awesome-power-of-the-tau-empires-new-and-improved-railgun/

Assuming Tau become popular in the meta.

If new Tau have any competitive legs at all, the telemon is a dead model for comp play. As are nearly any vehicle. Even Knights.

Audustum wrote:

 Grimskul wrote:
It really depends if GW limits the HH in numbers in any significant way, but they're definitely going to be a hard counter to the dread spam lists going around in the current scene.

Even just 3 HH's should do it I think. Three firing together is averaging 13.75ish damage even against a Telemon (my math will be a little off but that should be a pretty close idea). This is assuming no strat/HQ support of any kind, just the 'naked' models.

The bigger issue is to the Achillus/Galatus. Switching to 2+ to Wound hurts and takes the average to about 20 wounds, meaning they can realistically pop two of these Dreads per turn with enough consistency to make the Shield Boys have a sad day.

They'll pop infantry too but it's a much bigger waste of their shot due to overkill. 4W infantry are especially good because you resolve MW before regular damage, so the 3 damage gets eaten to take the model to 1W and then all the giant damage after that is overkill.

You actually do mortals after regular damage.

Don't we get a 5+++ against all Mortals now?

Also, these Hammerheads are still weak to the same old things, As Son Goku once said, "I'mma try punching them, REALLY HARD."

Our Spear Naughts will still be top slayers in this. Actually, for the cost, Melta Contemptors would do good work with this as well.

 Eihnlazer wrote:

Audustum wrote:

 Grimskul wrote:
It really depends if GW limits the HH in numbers in any significant way, but they're definitely going to be a hard counter to the dread spam lists going around in the current scene.

Even just 3 HH's should do it I think. Three firing together is averaging 13.75ish damage even against a Telemon (my math will be a little off but that should be a pretty close idea). This is assuming no strat/HQ support of any kind, just the 'naked' models.

The bigger issue is to the Achillus/Galatus. Switching to 2+ to Wound hurts and takes the average to about 20 wounds, meaning they can realistically pop two of these Dreads per turn with enough consistency to make the Shield Boys have a sad day.

They'll pop infantry too but it's a much bigger waste of their shot due to overkill. 4W infantry are especially good because you resolve MW before regular damage, so the 3 damage gets eaten to take the model to 1W and then all the giant damage after that is overkill.

You actually do mortals after regular damage.

Apparently I was thinking of an 8th edition FAQ!

Custodes newbie here, so many options for each of our kits, what to choose?

I get the impression that I will need exactly 1 vexilla/standard bearer guy. Should I make this from a basic Custode?

The Allarus Terminators... are they worth making into a shield captain or vexilla? Or best to just make a squad of 3 guys?

Custodian Wardens... Use them to make a shield captain and/or Vexilla? Make them into a normal squad with axes or spears?

If you buy a box of allarus, make one Shield cap, one vex, and one regular termy.

2 box's would be ideal though.


For wardens, i bought a box and then got the FW upgrade kit and turned them into saggitarum as the models look great.