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2022/01/06 13:40:42
Subject: Codex Adeptus Custodes: By His will alone
I've heard rumours about lances having a different profile on the charge (with 3D)
I've heard rumours of the bike captain commander trait making wounds spill over like MWs do
I've heard rumours about a relic that shuts off all saves (including invulns)
I've heard rumours about a strat that shuts down all post-save shenanigans like damage reduction, fnp etc.
Now if you have a dawneagle captain that has 8 attacks which ignores all saves, do 3D which spill over... you can wipe out entire full size squads of infantry or any non-t8 vehicle he touches.
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2022/01/06 14:56:32
Subject: Codex Adeptus Custodes: By His will alone
It's concerning that codex preorder is in 2 days and what we're actually getting is still largely a mystery. I wonder if GW thinks we'll be too disappointed and it will impact sales.
2022/01/06 15:27:43
Subject: Codex Adeptus Custodes: By His will alone
Mad_Proctologist wrote: It's concerning that codex preorder is in 2 days and what we're actually getting is still largely a mystery. I wonder if GW thinks we'll be too disappointed and it will impact sales.
Kind of beggars belief that they would write an underwhelming codex and then stifle rumours to prevent disappointment, instead of, like, just writing a good codex. I wouldn't give them that much credit though tbf, if it's underwhelming they're probably oblivious to it.
2022/01/02 15:35:03
Subject: Codex Adeptus Custodes: By His will alone
Yeah, it's kinda a given they know the leaks will hurt sales. But not for disappointment. Because leakers will post it to free content sites, that will hurt their bottom line. But what scares me is they are not even TRYING to hype this release. Compare this to the upcoming Eldar release. They aren't for another few months and they already have more info on their new stuff than we do. Their new Wraithknight looks mean as hell too.
Nope, aside from narrative games and maybe some modeling, I'm likely gonna give 9th a pass now. My main faction is not looking like any fun to me, and the edition will be over in a year anyway.
2022/01/06 15:34:08
Subject: Codex Adeptus Custodes: By His will alone
Would a Vexhilla in Termy plate with an Oblit be worth it as a tank hunter?
Also, the new Psych-out grenade is auto-death to psykers? Am I reading that right? Like it can kill morty? EDIT: Not Morty but a 50 point squad can now basically delete psykers. That is ugly. But not worth the CP.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2022/01/06 15:47:42
2022/01/06 15:48:26
Subject: Re:Codex Adeptus Custodes: By His will alone
I got excited by the Open the Vaults stratagem for a split-second as I thought there's no way they'd include the standard 'take an extra relic' stratagem (which every army in 9th has been given, I think) in a preview, and it must be a '1 model gets 2 relics' strat. I was wrong
2022/01/06 15:49:45
Subject: Codex Adeptus Custodes: By His will alone
FezzikDaBullgryn wrote: Would a Vexhilla in Termy plate with an Oblit be worth it as a tank hunter?
Also, the new Psych-out grenade is auto-death to psykers? Am I reading that right? Like it can kill morty? EDIT: Not Morty but a 50 point squad can now basically delete psykers. That is ugly. But not worth the CP.
Perils is d3 MW.
2022/01/06 15:51:44
Subject: Codex Adeptus Custodes: By His will alone
You are right. I thought it was D6, I am just reviewing the rule now. I honestly haven't seen it come of in all of 9th, because I never cast spells, and none of my opponents ever really fail that way.
I wonder if this will be the standard now across the game? There is an assassin with these right? The Culexus? It's a base weapon for him. As it was for us. I don't like weapons turning into Stratagems.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/01/06 15:53:23
2022/01/06 16:11:49
Subject: Codex Adeptus Custodes: By His will alone
Confirmed by sight of the relevant page of the codex? No, but currently believed to be gone and replaced with a integral 4++ and a 6+++ vs ALL mortal wounds
To be a man in such times is to be one amongst untold billions. It is to live in the cruelest and most bloody regime imaginable. These are the tales of those times. Forget the power of technology and science, for so much has been forgotten, never to be relearned. Forget the promise of progress and understanding, for in the grim dark future there is only war. There is no peace amongst the stars, only an eternity of carnage and slaughter, and the laughter of thirsting gods.
Coven of XVth 2000pts
The Blades of Ruin 2,000pts Watch Company Rho 1650pts
2022/01/06 18:41:36
Subject: Codex Adeptus Custodes: By His will alone
Mad_Proctologist wrote: It's concerning that codex preorder is in 2 days and what we're actually getting is still largely a mystery. I wonder if GW thinks we'll be too disappointed and it will impact sales.
It's not a mystery.
Our defenses got nerfed, very little has changed, all our stats are the same except for shield captains.
2022/01/06 19:42:24
Subject: Codex Adeptus Custodes: By His will alone
Mad_Proctologist wrote: It's concerning that codex preorder is in 2 days and what we're actually getting is still largely a mystery. I wonder if GW thinks we'll be too disappointed and it will impact sales.
It's not a mystery.
Our defenses got nerfed, very little has changed, all our stats are the same except for shield captains.
Jetbikes got +1W and spear units (including Jetbikes I believe) got +1S over current incarnations. So it's not all the same, exactly. Seriously, Jetbikes are looking to be S7 T6 5W 4A with a 2+/4++/4+++(to MW in the right Shield Host) for 85/90 points at the moment. Even without ObSec, there's play here.
I do think they're swinging a bit too hard at our defense, but we'll see. I need secondaries and to a lesser extent more stratagems.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2022/01/06 19:43:43
2022/01/06 19:55:03
Subject: Codex Adeptus Custodes: By His will alone
Mad_Proctologist wrote: It's concerning that codex preorder is in 2 days and what we're actually getting is still largely a mystery. I wonder if GW thinks we'll be too disappointed and it will impact sales.
It's not a mystery.
Our defenses got nerfed, very little has changed, all our stats are the same except for shield captains.
Jetbikes got +1W and spear units (including Jetbikes I believe) got +1S over current incarnations. So it's not all the same, exactly. Seriously, Jetbikes are looking to be S7 T6 5W 4A with a 2+/4++/4+++(to MW in the right Shield Host) for 85/90 points at the moment. Even without ObSec, there's play here.
I do think they're swinging a bit too hard at our defense, but we'll see. I need secondaries and to a lesser extent more stratagems.
1. S7 is functionally worth the same as S6. It can damage Rhino's on a 3+ now. Whoopie.
2. Bikes points cost is silly bad. It's still radically overpriced at 80. With no Obsec, and a 2+5++6+++ it's still just either an extremely fragile tank hunter (Which it still sucks at), or a extremely fragile horde clearer(Which it's good at, but if you are wasting a 300 point squad on clearing a bunch of units of 6-9point models, have you really accomplished your worth?
Obsec is the only thing that made them borderline decent. Now they are basically just Distraction Carnifexes.
2022/01/06 19:57:25
Subject: Codex Adeptus Custodes: By His will alone
Mad_Proctologist wrote: It's concerning that codex preorder is in 2 days and what we're actually getting is still largely a mystery. I wonder if GW thinks we'll be too disappointed and it will impact sales.
It's not a mystery.
Our defenses got nerfed, very little has changed, all our stats are the same except for shield captains.
Jetbikes got +1W and spear units (including Jetbikes I believe) got +1S over current incarnations. So it's not all the same, exactly. Seriously, Jetbikes are looking to be S7 T6 5W 4A with a 2+/4++/4+++(to MW in the right Shield Host) for 85/90 points at the moment. Even without ObSec, there's play here.
I do think they're swinging a bit too hard at our defense, but we'll see. I need secondaries and to a lesser extent more stratagems.
1. S7 is functionally worth the same as S6. It can damage Rhino's on a 3+ now. Whoopie.
2. Bikes points cost is silly bad. It's still radically overpriced at 80. With no Obsec, and a 2+5++6+++ it's still just either an extremely fragile tank hunter (Which it still sucks at), or a extremely fragile horde clearer(Which it's good at, but if you are wasting a 300 point squad on clearing a bunch of units of 6-9point models, have you really accomplished your worth?
Obsec is the only thing that made them borderline decent. Now they are basically just Distraction Carnifexes.
Well hang on a second here.
1. It's S7 with +1 to wound. That lets them wound Raiders/Rhinos/e.t.c. on 2's. That's pretty nice.
2. They're 2+/4++ and 4+++ (assuming you take that Shield Host, but it does look like one of the best ones so far) not 2+/5++/6+++. That's a pretty big difference.
Don't forget multiple secondaries were changes to let Bikes perform them too.
2022/01/06 20:14:59
Subject: Re:Codex Adeptus Custodes: By His will alone
The codex is not out yet and you now how it is going to perform?
Ofc I do not. And a provocative question like that really isn't necessary.
I base my oppinion on facts, known rules and previews. And on this known things, the codex looks like a sidegrade at best in an edition were powercreep is insane.
So optimism is does not seem to be recommendable, especially when the most exciting things they show us is Open the vaults, Transhumans and a 6" psyc out grenade that does D3 MW.
So do you know the codex and know that it works out better? No? Then your oppinion is just as valid as mine and you have neither cause nor grounds to shoot it down.
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2022/01/06 20:48:48
Subject: Re:Codex Adeptus Custodes: By His will alone
My god the toxicity of this forum....smh...only seeing glimpses of the codex and declaring it awful is ridiculous. Lets wait and see what the secondaries, ALL of the relics, WL traits, stratagems are before we declare the codex is a complete dud. From what I have seen I think there is a lot to look forward to. New ways to look at list building, setting up the katahs to work with your army or your opponents army.
What I am seeing is a lot of complaining that the codex doesn't look broken enough to their liking. I will get off my soap box now.
2022/01/06 21:08:56
Subject: Codex Adeptus Custodes: By His will alone
I have my opinion, you have yours.
Noone insulted your opinion, yet you come about and call the others toxic.
Yet who is toxic here? In my experience, those that use the term are the true culprits.
Its also what they DON'T show us that makes people pessimistic.
If the best thing they can show us to generate hype for a presale is Open the Vaults - thats raising a few eyebrows. You can wait for the full codex, that is on you. But condemning speculation on a forum is questionable.
We are pretty sure the 3++ is gone, which is a huge nerf to the ONE thing that kept the army afloat. And we, so far, have not seen many things that could compensate such a big loss. That is in no way "the codex is not broken enough" as you see it. Things got taken away, not enough things were given back. It is a fear for going under in this power creep meta.
Leave other peoples opinion alone or argue against it, but using words like 'toxic' is just a deadbeat argument that has no place... anywhere. It's just as overused as "racist" and lost its original meaning.
If you see those things that you look forward to, tell us about them. Bring arguments like the buff to wounds and S for bikes e.g. and argue from there.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2022/01/06 21:38:43
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2022/01/06 21:52:32
Subject: Codex Adeptus Custodes: By His will alone
Mad_Proctologist wrote: It's concerning that codex preorder is in 2 days and what we're actually getting is still largely a mystery. I wonder if GW thinks we'll be too disappointed and it will impact sales.
It's not a mystery.
Our defenses got nerfed, very little has changed, all our stats are the same except for shield captains.
Jetbikes got +1W and spear units (including Jetbikes I believe) got +1S over current incarnations. So it's not all the same, exactly. Seriously, Jetbikes are looking to be S7 T6 5W 4A with a 2+/4++/4+++(to MW in the right Shield Host) for 85/90 points at the moment. Even without ObSec, there's play here.
I do think they're swinging a bit too hard at our defense, but we'll see. I need secondaries and to a lesser extent more stratagems.
1. S7 is functionally worth the same as S6. It can damage Rhino's on a 3+ now. Whoopie.
2. Bikes points cost is silly bad. It's still radically overpriced at 80. With no Obsec, and a 2+5++6+++ it's still just either an extremely fragile tank hunter (Which it still sucks at), or a extremely fragile horde clearer(Which it's good at, but if you are wasting a 300 point squad on clearing a bunch of units of 6-9point models, have you really accomplished your worth?
Obsec is the only thing that made them borderline decent. Now they are basically just Distraction Carnifexes.
Well hang on a second here.
1. It's S7 with +1 to wound. That lets them wound Raiders/Rhinos/e.t.c. on 2's. That's pretty nice.
2. They're 2+/4++ and 4+++ (assuming you take that Shield Host, but it does look like one of the best ones so far) not 2+/5++/6+++. That's a pretty big difference.
Don't forget multiple secondaries were changes to let Bikes perform them too.
Are you talking about the charge ability on +1 to wound? Because that is gone I thought. Or are you talking about the Plus 1 to wound Strat, because that's only for spears. I am saying S7 Lances are worthless compared to S6 lances. It makes zero functional difference unless you are using bike squads to hunt S7 Tagets, like Dreads and light vehicles. Which again, is silly.
Nope, I would rather just go back to modeling. The biggest way this codex has hurt me is it's radically decreased the value of all my still in plastic/box models.
2022/01/06 22:01:05
Subject: Codex Adeptus Custodes: By His will alone
From a french guy how seems to have the codex, translatet with google:
shadow keepers
=> trait 1, while an enemy unit is within Engagement Range of a unit with this trait, subtract 1 from the attack characteristics of each model in the enemy unit
trait 2 => each time a model of a unit with trait makes an attack against a Character unit, you can re-roll the wound roll
Martial Ka'tah: Kaptaris
Srata => 1 CP)> use this stratagem at any phase, when a Shadowkeeper unit from your army (except vehicle units) is chosen as the target of an attack, until the end of the phase, with each attack against the chosen unit, subtract 1 from the attack's Strength characteristic
warlord trait => sealed watchman, with each attack of this warlord allocated to a character unit, you cannot make an invulnerable saving throw against the attack
Essentially seems that -1 attacks and reroll wounds vs characters for the trait.
shadow keepers (original french):
Spoiler:
gardiens des ombres => trait 1, tant qu'une unité ennemie est à Portés d'engagement d'une unité ayant ce trait, soustrayez 1 à la caractéristiques d'attaques de chaque figurine de l'unité ennemie
trait 2 => chaque fois qu'une figurine d'une unité ayant de trait effectue une attaque contre une unité Personnage, vous pouvez relancer le jet de blessure
Ka'tah martial : Kaptaris
Srata => 1 CP )> utilisez ce stratagème à n'importe qu'elle phase, quand une unité gardiens des ombres de votre armée (hormis les unités véhicule) est choisie comme cible d'une attaque, jusqu'à la fin de la phase, à chaque attaque contre l'unité choisie, soutrayez 1 à la caractéristique de Force de l'attaque
trait de seigneur de guerre => veilleur scellés, a chaque attaque de ce seigneur de guerre allouée à une unité personnage, on ne peut pas effectuer de jet de sauvegarde invulnérable contre l'attaque
.
Martial Ka’tahs:
Note your whole army must be same shield host. This is an ability on datasheets for most units:
Spoiler:
If your whole army is ADEPTUS CUSTODES (excluding ANATHEMA PSYKANA, AGENTS OF THE IMPERIUM, and UNALIGNED) and if all units that can be given a shield host keyword are given the same shield host, you can use these rules and abilities. After deploying both armies but before determining the first turn, you must choose a primary, secondary, and tertiary ka’tah. Write them down in secret on your army list. In each of your command phases, as long as a ka’tah stance is available, you can pick one to be active for your army. Each time this happens, units from your army with this ability benefit from it until the start of your next command phase.
When picking an active stance, the following rules apply: You can not pick any stance more than once, you must choose a stance from your primary ka‘tah first, and can not choose a stance from your tertiary ka’tah until you have chose at least one from your secondary ka’tah. When you choose a stance from a different martial ka’tah, you can not chose a stance from a preceding ka’tah.
Here is the example in the book: Elle has an army that qualifies, she choses Rendex as primary, Dacatarai as secondary, and Calistus as tertiary. First round she chooses stance 2 of Rendax. Round 2 she can choose stance 1 of Rendax or stance 1 or 2 of Dacatari. She can't choose Calistus yet since she hasn’t chosen any stances from her secondary ka’tah, Dacatarai. She choses stance 1 of Dcatari, her secondary ka’tah. In her third command phase she can choose stance 2 of dacatarai or either stance 1 or 2 of Calistus, since she has already chosen one from her secondary. She can’t chose any from Rendax anymore since you can never choose a preceding stance (no going back). She chooses stance 2 of Calistus, her tertiary ka’tah. In her turn 4, she must chose stance 1 of Calistsus since that’s all that's left. This means she won't have any ka’tahs active on turn 5.
Calistus 1: roll an extra d6 when advancing and choose the result
Calistus 2: when making a normal move or advance you can shoot in the following shooting phase as if you remained stationary
Conservai 1: this unit can perform an action in a turn in which they advanced or fell back (WOW!)
Conservai 2: each time this unit performs an action, they can shoot without the action failing
Dacatarai 1: every time an enemy unit piles in or consolidates, if they are within engagement range of this unit, subtract 2” from the distance they can move for that pile in or consolidate.
Dacatarai 2: each time this unit fights it can choose to add 1 to their attacks characteristic but reduce the damage characteristic of all melee weapons by 1.
Salvus 1: add 4:to the range of all shooting weapons this unit has
Salvus 2: If they are INFANTRY and didn’t advance and don’t have enemy units in engagement range, they can shoot 2 times with auric weapons during this phase.
Rendax 1: hits of 6 in melee auto-wound VEHICLES and MONSTERS
Rendax 2: when attacking a VEHICLE or MONSTER, if this unit charged or heroic intervened this turn, add 1 to the Strength characteristic of the attack (so effectively melee only)
Kaptaris 1: enemies cannot re-roll hits in melee against this unit
Kaptaris 2: Every time an enemy unit (excluding VEHICLES and MONSTERS) in engagement range of one or more INFANTRY units with this ability attempts to fall back, roll a dice with your opponent. Add 1 to their roll if their unit can fly. If you roll higher than their roll, the enemy unit cannot fall back.
From what we've seen the relics and WL traits seem a bit lackluster, but I haven't seen many WL traits. Once we see the shield host traits and stratagems, plus the chapter approved faction-specific secondaries, we will have a good idea how to book will be. Also apparently Trajaan is a beast and gets 2 WL traits.
Pictures of two pages of strats from the french codex. French leaker says thats 2 of 4 pages. (I think there are no more strats, except the shield hosts specific
there are 31 stratagems)
1CP: CUSTODIAN GUARD with shields, when targeted in combat, gain -1 to be hit. Only in melee combat.
1CP: At start of first round, choose an enemy unit, until end of battle VIGILATORS re-roll hits against them.
1CP: Use in fight phase when any custodes unit is selected to fight, if under starting strength, +1A to each model, if under half starting number of models, then each model gets +2A instead. (Note: this means fewer attacks than before but can now be used every phase to medium effect instead of just in the turn you lost a bunch of models)
1/2CP: when any custodes unit selected to fight in combat, +1 to wound vs enemy unit with higher toughness than the custodes unit. 2CP if more than 3 models in the custodes unit.
1CP: in any phase after shooting or fighting with any custodes unit, pick an ANATHEMA PSYKANA unit within 6” and that sisters unit gets +1 to hit for the phase. Note: does not say that the sisters unit needs to target the same unit as the custodes unit.
1CP: when witchseekers are selected to shoot or fire overwatch, for that phase, +1 Str to their flamers for that attack
2CP: fight on death for any custodes character, if they haven’t already fought. Can be used on named characters.
1CP: ADEPTUS CUSTODES DREADNOUGHT (Note: can be the forgeworld ones) in command phase chooses to give 6” aura of either re-roll hits or wounds of 1. Only effects CORE SHIELD-HOST units.
1CP: In command phase, choose a custodes machine spirit unit to act on top profile.
1CP: In any phase when custodes or anathema psykana vehicle would take a mortal wound, gain 5+++ against mortals for that phase.
1CP: When a non-named custodes character kills an enemy character in melee combat, pick one of the two to happen: a) pick a shield host trait that the character doesnt have and they gain it for the rest of the battle, or b) pick one stance of a martial ka’tah, the character always benefits from that stance. Can only use this start once per custodes character per game, and cant use in crusade unless you pay some requisition. Note: this was slightly hard to translate so possible I missed something in parts a or b. But the selection criteria are clear.
1CP: Extra relics strat, one per character per CP, max 2 extra
1CP: Extra WL traits strat, one per character per CP, max 2 extra
1CP: Give a second WL trait to a character. Note: does not have to be your actual warlord from what I understand.
1CP: Eternal penitent! Use before the battle, pick a custodes DREADNOUGHT (yes can be FW dreads) they gain +1A and re-roll charges. If they already re-roll charges (like from a ka-tah, etc.) then instead add +1 to their charge distance. CAN ONLY USE ONCE PER GAME. Note: not once per game per dread, straight up once per game per army. :(
1CP: Heroic intervention with any unit, if they already could heroic, they intervene 6” instead.
1/2CP: use in command phase when you pick a stance for a ka’tah. Pick any custodes unit and give them a different stance. That custodes unit benefits only from that new stance you picked, not the same stance as the rest of your army. They don’t get both. Lasts until next command phase. If the custodes unit contains 4 or more models it costs 2CP.
1CP: Interrupt in combat if a custodes unit is in range of an objective. Same as before.
1/2CP: Unleash the lions, in command phase, same as before, but 2CP if 4 or more allarus in the unit at the time of using.
1CP: When your warlord dies, pick another custodes character to be your warlord, give them the WL trait that the dead warlord had if they don’t already have one. The new warlord is considered warlord for all rules purposes and it doesnt count as your warlord dying until this new one is slain. Note: there is no clause saying you can only use this once per game.
1CP any custodes unit that can FLY can shoot after falling back (but not charge)
1CP in psychic phase when enemy suffers perils within 18” of ANATHEMA PSYKANA INFANTRY. They take an extra d3 mortal wounds.
1/2CP: in any phase when any custodes unit is targeted, the enemy cannot re roll number of shots, hits, or wounds. 1CP if 4 or fewer models, 2CP if custodes unit has 5 or more models.
1CP: before the battle when declaring reserves, an INFANTRY, BIKER, or DREADNOUGHT can deepstrike.
1CP: 18” range 4+ to stop effects of an enemy psychic power, used by any ANATHEMA PSYKANA INFANTRY unit, used after any other deny the witch attempts.
1CP start of any phase use on one ANATHEMA PSYKANA INFANTRY unit, they gain a 6” aura of enemy units are -1 to hit when targeting this sisters unit.
1CP use in opponents movement phase when an enemy unit wants to fall back from combat with a custodes INFANTRY unit. The custodes infantry unit can shoot at the enemy unit as if it were the shooting phase.
1CP: smokescreen standard -1 to hit
1CP: TANGLEFOOT! Use at start of enemy’s movement or charge phase. Cant use on units that FLY. Must be visible within 12”. Otherwise same as before, subtract d6” from movement or charge distance. Can only use once per turn. Note: like many of our core strats from before, still strong, but toned down.
1CP: Use when TELEPORT HOMER ADEPTUS CUSTODES is chosen to move. Remove them form the battlefield, then during the reinforcements step of the SAME movement phase, replace the unit on the battlefield within 3” of a VEXILUS PRAETOR or ALEYA, but more than 9” from enemy units.
1CP: 6” grenade from ANATHEMA PSYKANA INFANTRY that causes perils if hits a psyker.
Sisters can not be affected by psychic powers, enemies within 18” are -1 to cast powers per sister unit to a max of -3 to cast, and sisters gain +1 To hit against PSYKER or DAEMON units.
The codex is not out yet and you now how it is going to perform?
Ofc I do not. And a provocative question like that really isn't necessary.
I base my oppinion on facts, known rules and previews. And on this known things, the codex looks like a sidegrade at best in an edition were powercreep is insane.
So optimism is does not seem to be recommendable, especially when the most exciting things they show us is Open the vaults, Transhumans and a 6" psyc out grenade that does D3 MW.
So do you know the codex and know that it works out better? No? Then your oppinion is just as valid as mine and you have neither cause nor grounds to shoot it down.
Hm yes i should have worded that differently but all these "the sky is falling the codex will be bad" posts really annoyed me XD
This message was edited 13 times. Last update was at 2022/01/07 08:12:37
2022/01/06 22:55:50
Subject: Codex Adeptus Custodes: By His will alone
That seems quite good actually, the strats are nice. We retain some good old stuff like eternal penitent (though only once hurts) and tanglefoot. Still being able to turn off rerolls is also clutch.
Being able to switch stances for 1cp on a unit seems to be something we might use often.
Losing teleport homer really hurts though....and giving our guys with shields a strat to make them - 1 to hit is downright insulting....thats SUCH a useless debuff, I hate it.
The third captain commander trait for allarus seems decent though...+1 to wound against vehicles and monsters is always useful, against characters its mostly an unnecessary bonus. Definitely the best option.
2022/01/06 23:12:42
Subject: Codex Adeptus Custodes: By His will alone