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As a Sob player, you need to practice with Celestine, she is MORE than a distraction, she can eliminate a good 400+ points easily.

When she dies the 1st time on a 2+ she come back, blah blah easy, but you need to make sure either (depending on the situation) 1 Gemini is alive or neither. This will make it so She either comes backs and doesnt take wounds again and is able to gain a Gemini back at the start of your turn, or you place her in a safe area, via DSing.

Once that happens now it gets hard (basically you need to know the power output that can kill er) you can use an AoF to "res" her or a Gemini, yes you wont get to shoot or melee twice, but rezing either Her to or the Gemini, THEN use "her" special AoF to heal D3 wounds.

Doing this will make her live forever, they literally need to kill her full unit off completely after she comes back.

And if she is in combat doing this, she is 6 attacks at S7 with ap and multi damage. She wrecks!

I've won games b.c i put her in the back line and just kill unit after unit, staying alive. When you have 6 Dominion squads right in front of you, killing her compare to 6 Open top Rhinos with mass shooting? its a hard choice.

You wont have Dominions you'll have Custodes.

Oh sure, I’m well aware of what Celestine is like. I expect the bikes will get into combat too most of the time. Shooting 20 T5 wounds with 2+ saves away is challenging for most armies.

The point is, that lot are there to tie people up and cause a nuisance, giving the guards time to come along and deliver the coup de grace.

I’ve got Celestine. What I haven’t got is 8 retributors with heavy bolters - who appear to be extremely pricey! I might see if any kind of conversion is possible, such as giving the spare heavy bolters I have from the 30k mkiii or mkiv guys to normal sisters. I’ve got quite a few of those.

 Amishprn86 wrote:
As a Sob player, you need to practice with Celestine, she is MORE than a distraction, she can eliminate a good 400+ points easily.

When she dies the 1st time on a 2+ she come back, blah blah easy, but you need to make sure either (depending on the situation) 1 Gemini is alive or neither. This will make it so She either comes backs and doesnt take wounds again and is able to gain a Gemini back at the start of your turn, or you place her in a safe area, via DSing.

Once that happens now it gets hard (basically you need to know the power output that can kill er) you can use an AoF to "res" her or a Gemini, yes you wont get to shoot or melee twice, but rezing either Her to or the Gemini, THEN use "her" special AoF to heal D3 wounds.

Doing this will make her live forever, they literally need to kill her full unit off completely after she comes back.

And if she is in combat doing this, she is 6 attacks at S7 with ap and multi damage. She wrecks!

I've won games b.c i put her in the back line and just kill unit after unit, staying alive. When you have 6 Dominion squads right in front of you, killing her compare to 6 Open top Rhinos with mass shooting? its a hard choice.

You wont have Dominions you'll have Custodes.

Wait, how does Celestine get two AoF in a mixed detachment? Did I misread something in the rules or in your post?

Audustum wrote:

 Amishprn86 wrote:
As a Sob player, you need to practice with Celestine, she is MORE than a distraction, she can eliminate a good 400+ points easily.

When she dies the 1st time on a 2+ she come back, blah blah easy, but you need to make sure either (depending on the situation) 1 Gemini is alive or neither. This will make it so She either comes backs and doesnt take wounds again and is able to gain a Gemini back at the start of your turn, or you place her in a safe area, via DSing.

Once that happens now it gets hard (basically you need to know the power output that can kill er) you can use an AoF to "res" her or a Gemini, yes you wont get to shoot or melee twice, but rezing either Her to or the Gemini, THEN use "her" special AoF to heal D3 wounds.

Doing this will make her live forever, they literally need to kill her full unit off completely after she comes back.

And if she is in combat doing this, she is 6 attacks at S7 with ap and multi damage. She wrecks!

I've won games b.c i put her in the back line and just kill unit after unit, staying alive. When you have 6 Dominion squads right in front of you, killing her compare to 6 Open top Rhinos with mass shooting? its a hard choice.

You wont have Dominions you'll have Custodes.

Wait, how does Celestine get two AoF in a mixed detachment? Did I misread something in the rules or in your post?

Act of faith is an ability rather than a detachment bonus (for now at least). Celestine has an ability that gives her an extra act of faith

Kdash wrote:

Audustum wrote:

 Amishprn86 wrote:
As a Sob player, you need to practice with Celestine, she is MORE than a distraction, she can eliminate a good 400+ points easily.

When she dies the 1st time on a 2+ she come back, blah blah easy, but you need to make sure either (depending on the situation) 1 Gemini is alive or neither. This will make it so She either comes backs and doesnt take wounds again and is able to gain a Gemini back at the start of your turn, or you place her in a safe area, via DSing.

Once that happens now it gets hard (basically you need to know the power output that can kill er) you can use an AoF to "res" her or a Gemini, yes you wont get to shoot or melee twice, but rezing either Her to or the Gemini, THEN use "her" special AoF to heal D3 wounds.

Doing this will make her live forever, they literally need to kill her full unit off completely after she comes back.

And if she is in combat doing this, she is 6 attacks at S7 with ap and multi damage. She wrecks!

I've won games b.c i put her in the back line and just kill unit after unit, staying alive. When you have 6 Dominion squads right in front of you, killing her compare to 6 Open top Rhinos with mass shooting? its a hard choice.

You wont have Dominions you'll have Custodes.

Wait, how does Celestine get two AoF in a mixed detachment? Did I misread something in the rules or in your post?

Act of faith is an ability rather than a detachment bonus (for now at least). Celestine has an ability that gives her an extra act of faith

I must have read the rules wrong. I thought she innately had 0 and that ability just raised her to 1!

You get the Army wide one that is on a 2+, then she has her own for free.

There are also ways to get insane amounts of AOF and 1 unit can use them all if you play them in only an IG army (not all the Adeptus Ministorum are Order). There are many things you can do with AoF that unless you read the rules many times wont see at first.

Tho when the codex comes out all that will be stopped.

 Amishprn86 wrote:
You get the Army wide one that is on a 2+, then she has her own for free.

Yeah, so I cracked open an Index and actually read it carefully. Doesn't it say, however, that "Some abilities may allow you to use more than one Act of Faith in the same turn, when this is the case, a different unit must be chosen to perform each Act of Faith". So that would prevent Celestine from using both on herself, right? Cause when I read your first description it sounded like you were using two on her in the same turn.

Audustum wrote:

 Amishprn86 wrote:
You get the Army wide one that is on a 2+, then she has her own for free.

Yeah, so I cracked open an Index and actually read it carefully. Doesn't it say, however, that "Some abilities may allow you to use more than one Act of Faith in the same turn, when this is the case, a different unit must be chosen to perform each Act of Faith". So that would prevent Celestine from using both on herself, right? Cause when I read your first description it sounded like you were using two on her in the same turn.

No, she performs an act of faith WITH another unit. So on a 2+ you get one unit to shoot, and then Celestine does her act of faith WITH another one.

 JNAProductions wrote:

Audustum wrote:

 Amishprn86 wrote:
You get the Army wide one that is on a 2+, then she has her own for free.

Yeah, so I cracked open an Index and actually read it carefully. Doesn't it say, however, that "Some abilities may allow you to use more than one Act of Faith in the same turn, when this is the case, a different unit must be chosen to perform each Act of Faith". So that would prevent Celestine from using both on herself, right? Cause when I read your first description it sounded like you were using two on her in the same turn.

No, she performs an act of faith WITH another unit. So on a 2+ you get one unit to shoot, and then Celestine does her act of faith WITH another one.

That's more what I thought. I was confused by these quotes from Amish:

There are also ways to get insane amounts of AOF and 1 unit can use them all

Once that happens now it gets hard (basically you need to know the power output that can kill er) you can use an AoF to "res" her or a Gemini, yes you wont get to shoot or melee twice, but rezing either Her to or the Gemini, THEN use "her" special AoF to heal D3 wounds.

She can heal her Gemini, not an Act of faith, i type it wrong that my fualt, Healing tears? I cant remember the name of it. I was in a hurry and might have mixed up a couple words.

English is really hard for me.

I try to word it easier

You kill off Gemini, Res Gemini with ability, if you get Celestine dead AoF her to res her, then she res's Gemini due to Sequencing rules with her ability, then she AoF another unit.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

There are also ways to get insane amounts of AOF and 1 unit can use them all

This is true, but i dont want to get into that. It completely abusing RAW and it is 100% not RAI, kinda like Pyrovores for Nids in 6/7th how it hits all units on the table.

Whats the "best for your points" way to ally in custodes without bikes battalion or vanguard?

 THUNDERHAMMER wrote:
Whats the "best for your points" way to ally in custodes without bikes battalion or vanguard?

It’s difficult to ally in a battalion of Custodes, because it costs a lot. Realistically, 3x3 guards and a couple of HQs usually won’t be all that useful, so I wouldn’t recommend that.

A vanguard might work better. You could bring a vexilla with the fearless bubble if you played IG, then maybe have some termies to deep strike and a contemptor or something. Maybe a bike captain for your HQ, but one on foot could also be fine.

One weird thing is that you can give a Vexilla guy a spear or axe, because the warden set comes with a left handed spear/axe. But a terminator Vexilla can only have a misericordia. It’s therefore quite hard to argue for a termie vexilla - except to pull schenanigans with the praetorian plate. A normal vexilla with an axe is actually quite a badass character for his price.

I'm not convinced by any of the Vexilla/Praetoriam bomb strats yet. Seems sketch.

Me neither, I'd have to see it in action to really be convinced. I want to believe there is a reliable way to use the Vexilla Teleport but I guess that'll take time before the combo is discovered. In the meantime regular deep strike will have to do I suppose.

 Cephalobeard wrote:
I'm not convinced by any of the Vexilla/Praetoriam bomb strats yet. Seems sketch.

Yeah, too much work for too little payoff.

Mandragola wrote:

 THUNDERHAMMER wrote:
Whats the "best for your points" way to ally in custodes without bikes battalion or vanguard?

It’s difficult to ally in a battalion of Custodes, because it costs a lot. Realistically, 3x3 guards and a couple of HQs usually won’t be all that useful, so I wouldn’t recommend that.

A vanguard might work better. You could bring a vexilla with the fearless bubble if you played IG, then maybe have some termies to deep strike and a contemptor or something. Maybe a bike captain for your HQ, but one on foot could also be fine.

One weird thing is that you can give a Vexilla guy a spear or axe, because the warden set comes with a left handed spear/axe. But a terminator Vexilla can only have a misericordia. It’s therefore quite hard to argue for a termie vexilla - except to pull schenanigans with the praetorian plate. A normal vexilla with an axe is actually quite a badass character for his price.

terminators are fine but wardens really caught my eye, I know they arent the best but damn if they look the best

Axe Vexilla is the dream! Im magnetizing my custodian guard squad as we speak its been fairly easy all things considered

So has anyone done a number crunch on the different units yet? I don't mean their point values but their average damage, and their average survive-ability and compair to other units.

I'm highly interested in guards vs wardens mostly.


haven't gotten my book yet (should be getting it tomorrow or so) but if i haven't missed anyone else posting such findings I'll get to it when i can.

Oberron wrote:
So has anyone done a number crunch on the different units yet? I don't mean their point values but their average damage, and their average survive-ability and compair to other units.

I'm highly interested in guards vs wardens mostly.


haven't gotten my book yet (should be getting it tomorrow or so) but if i haven't missed anyone else posting such findings I'll get to it when i can.

I mean, it's not numbers but Guard Vs. Wardens can be done at a glance I think. Guards without Storm Shields are just Wardens without the FNP. So Guards are slightly less survivable with spears, slightly more survivable with Storm Shields since going 4++ to 3++ is better than 4++ and 6+ chance to ignore each point of damage.

Audustum wrote:

Oberron wrote:
So has anyone done a number crunch on the different units yet? I don't mean their point values but their average damage, and their average survive-ability and compair to other units.

I'm highly interested in guards vs wardens mostly.


haven't gotten my book yet (should be getting it tomorrow or so) but if i haven't missed anyone else posting such findings I'll get to it when i can.

I mean, it's not numbers but Guard Vs. Wardens can be done at a glance I think. Guards without Storm Shields are just Wardens without the FNP. So Guards are slightly less survivable with spears, slightly more survivable with Storm Shields since going 4++ to 3++ is better than 4++ and 6+ chance to ignore each point of damage.

yeah but there is also the points differance. guard being cheaper by 9 PPM. so the question is, is it more point efficant to take guards or wardens?

I'm of the opinion that it's largely moot, as you'll be taking eaither to pad out your roster for detachments, and the 3+ CP of a battalion outweighs in most cases the tiny advantage of a 6+ FNP on the wardens.

Audustum wrote:

 Cephalobeard wrote:
I'm not convinced by any of the Vexilla/Praetoriam bomb strats yet. Seems sketch.

Yeah, too much work for too little payoff.

I wouldn’t say “too much work”, rather, “requires a certain situation and enemy army style”.

If you’re playing a gun line, then it’s not going to be worth it. If you’re playing a 1st turn assault army, there is a very high possibility of the strategy working.

The only issue is, you’re only going to want to do this when you’re backed up by a Guard Brigade – simply because you’re likely looking at a 7-9 CP cost to pull it off the way you want.

Anyone seen a Custodes codex battle report anywhere yet? I've checked most of the usual content producers, who usually scramble to be the first to get the reviews and reports out, but nothing yet. Seems strange considering all the hype around the release from GW.

Spartacus wrote:
Anyone seen a Custodes codex battle report anywhere yet? I've checked most of the usual content producers, who usually scramble to be the first to get the reviews and reports out, but nothing yet. Seems strange considering all the hype around the release from GW.

Tabletop tactics did a game containing 3 Biker Captains and Ultramarines vs the new Thousand Sons, but that was it. I think a lot more are waiting for the kits to go on sale/get them built and painted.

Kdash wrote:

Spartacus wrote:
Anyone seen a Custodes codex battle report anywhere yet? I've checked most of the usual content producers, who usually scramble to be the first to get the reviews and reports out, but nothing yet. Seems strange considering all the hype around the release from GW.

Tabletop tactics did a game containing 3 Biker Captains and Ultramarines vs the new Thousand Sons, but that was it. I think a lot more are waiting for the kits to go on sale/get them built and painted.

I've seen a few battle videos for them on BOLS as well. that said almost ALL field the custodes as mixed forces of "we've got X.. AND SOME CUSTODES"

Spartacus wrote:
Anyone seen a Custodes codex battle report anywhere yet? I've checked most of the usual content producers, who usually scramble to be the first to get the reviews and reports out, but nothing yet. Seems strange considering all the hype around the release from GW.

Most armies were already ready, Custodes is mostly new kits, so they're still assembling and painting them

 Cephalobeard wrote:
I'm not convinced by any of the Vexilla/Praetoriam bomb strats yet. Seems sketch.

Im not convinced by the combo strats either but I can certainly see the use out of the Terminator Vexilla deepstriking in to provide -1 to hit to a bunch of bikes/captains.

 JNAProductions wrote:

Audustum wrote:

 Crazyterran wrote:
In a 500 point game three Bike Captains will be pretty hard to beat. Especially if you have the Relic Bike. Heck, could make two 3++ bikers if you are so inclined.

3 bike captains is 510 minimum I think so it goes over.

They're 160 a pop, with hurricane bolters. So that's just wrong.

Would 3 bike captains be viable for a 500pt starting escalation force?

Depends, are you adding more bikes to it later? If your adding 3 bikers later then IMO its better to just have a Patrol with Shield on bike and 3 Bikers. This way you have a 4th bike and can use the character rule (if your using Beta rules those 3 characters on bikes dont block each other)

 Amishprn86 wrote:
Depends, are you adding more bikes to it later? If your adding 3 bikers later then IMO its better to just have a Patrol with Shield on bike and 3 Bikers. This way you have a 4th bike and can use the character rule (if your using Beta rules those 3 characters on bikes dont block each other)

Depends, I'm not one to mix and match unless they brought out Inquisition soon, so I'd probably go pure custodes, and I've always liked jetbikes since the metal tech-marine one back in the day.. It is the idea of minimizing the amount of painting so that I can play a game, rather than never finish the painting as there's so many to do, get bored and give up.

? I didnt say anything about mix and matching, i was talking about pure custodes.

Are you planing on taking a unit of Bikes for your escalation. You can start out with 1 shield captain on bike and 3 more bikes. If you only take shield captains thats only 3 bikes, the other way is 4 bikes

What are the thoughts on Trajann? Worth the cost of two shield captains? Is the Moment Shackle worth it over shuffling detachments for extra CPs? Here's my current layout for a not-cutthroat competitive, but still decent (imo) 2k list;

HQ:
Trajann
Bike Shield-Captain (Warlord, Radiant Mantle, Auric Aquilas)

Troops:
3x 3 man spear squads

Elite:
5x Allarus with axes
1x Terminator Vexilus Praetor (-1 hit banner)

Fast Attack:
2x 3 man bike squads