Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

I'm thinking of skipping Guards entirely and going full Wardens

Kzraahk wrote:
I'm thinking of skipping Guards entirely and going full Wardens

I'm thinking it's not worth it. Wardens are a little more expensive (though axes are nice), but the big reason is because 3 Guard give you battalion access. 3 Wardens are just a vanguard.

Audustum wrote:

Kzraahk wrote:
I'm thinking of skipping Guards entirely and going full Wardens

I'm thinking it's not worth it. Wardens are a little more expensive (though axes are nice), but the big reason is because 3 Guard give you battalion access. 3 Wardens are just a vanguard.

True, but you only need 1 HQ for a vanguard. Two boxes of Wardens can make a shield captain and 3x3 wardens.

I think Wardens are very similar to guards on a point by point basis. They are weak against a few things though - notably plasma where their 6++ isn't likely to help (it would have to stop 2 wounds out of 4). 4-wound bikers and termies have the same issue with plasma ignoring their added toughness of course. There are a few 3-damage weapons, which bikes and termies are effectively twice as tough against, but plasma is far more common.

Wardens are probably the best unit to put in a land raider. If we get the coronus then 5 wardens and a captain (or even Trajan) will be great in that. Or you could have 2x3 units and split them to chase after seperate things.

I'll have to test the army through and through, but save for the extra 2CP, I think the fnp6+ and access to axes makes a difference. You can always add the cheapest Guard Batallion for extra CP and a bit more bodies

I think Valoris might be worth it if you're regularly using 2-3 CP stratagems and he's no slouch offensively or defensively either. Deep strike him with Allarus and you have a nice kill team that'll be tough to remove from your opponent's backfield. Of course, you'll have to play test with him to really gauge how many stratagems you're using realistically and then decide for yourself if the extra CP is worth it.

Mr. Funktastic wrote:
I think Valoris might be worth it if you're regularly using 2-3 CP stratagems and he's no slouch offensively or defensively either. Deep strike him with Allarus and you have a nice kill team that'll be tough to remove from your opponent's backfield. Of course, you'll have to play test with him to really gauge how many stratagems you're using realistically and then decide for yourself if the extra CP is worth it.

You can get an entire Guard Batallion for less than Valoris. Not really worth it, unfortunately.

 Cephalobeard wrote:

Mr. Funktastic wrote:
I think Valoris might be worth it if you're regularly using 2-3 CP stratagems and he's no slouch offensively or defensively either. Deep strike him with Allarus and you have a nice kill team that'll be tough to remove from your opponent's backfield. Of course, you'll have to play test with him to really gauge how many stratagems you're using realistically and then decide for yourself if the extra CP is worth it.

You can get an entire Guard Batallion for less than Valoris. Not really worth it, unfortunately.

Not for the CP alone, I agree. But maybe for the effect he has in combat as well.

Personally I'm not a fan, but it's tricky to work out the value of a character who brings a lot of different things to the table. For me, he's a lot like a normal captain with axe and there's no compelling reason to pay double the price for him. I think he's probably worth no more than 200 points - and nowhere near 250.

I think I need an intervention. I'm seriously contemplating a AM Brigade + 8 jetbike Captains list. 13 CP, and the only units my opponent can really alpha strike are some mortar squads since half the army are characters.

meleti wrote:
I think I need an intervention. I'm seriously contemplating a AM Brigade + 8 jetbike Captains list. 13 CP, and the only units my opponent can really alpha strike are some mortar squads since half the army are characters.

Yes. Yes this. If any guardsmen survive the first turn, MOVE MOVE MOVE them up the board to absorb bullets for another turn. I think a scouts/celestine battalion variant would be a little more optimal, but mass HQ bikers with heaps of victors of the blood games is going to be fun.

 Cephalobeard wrote:

Mr. Funktastic wrote:
I think Valoris might be worth it if you're regularly using 2-3 CP stratagems and he's no slouch offensively or defensively either. Deep strike him with Allarus and you have a nice kill team that'll be tough to remove from your opponent's backfield. Of course, you'll have to play test with him to really gauge how many stratagems you're using realistically and then decide for yourself if the extra CP is worth it.

You can get an entire Guard Batallion for less than Valoris. Not really worth it, unfortunately.

If you're planning on allying anyway, then yeah I would rather have a SC than Valoris. If you want to play a pure Custodes army then I think he's a solid choice given the options. He's not an auto-include by any means but he can cripple or outright kill almost anything in CC and recovering CP is invaluable given the number of great strategems we have.

Mr. Funktastic wrote:

 Cephalobeard wrote:

Mr. Funktastic wrote:
I think Valoris might be worth it if you're regularly using 2-3 CP stratagems and he's no slouch offensively or defensively either. Deep strike him with Allarus and you have a nice kill team that'll be tough to remove from your opponent's backfield. Of course, you'll have to play test with him to really gauge how many stratagems you're using realistically and then decide for yourself if the extra CP is worth it.

You can get an entire Guard Batallion for less than Valoris. Not really worth it, unfortunately.

If you're planning on allying anyway, then yeah I would rather have a SC than Valoris. If you want to play a pure Custodes army then I think he's a solid choice given the options. He's not an auto-include by any means but he can cripple or outright kill almost anything in CC and recovering CP is invaluable given the number of great strategems we have.

This is more the perspective I'm at. Pure Custodes, he costs enough to be the difference between having battalion + outrider or vanguard, or battalion and him. So 7CP or 6 w/ D3 return (or the other Moment Shackle options if you don't need them). Seems decent. And he's the only source of re-rolling wounds to Custodes.

supreme command
3x shield bike captains
1x celestine
culexes


Blood angel batallion
sang preist
DC captian
sanguinor

3x CCW scouts

2x DC

IG bat
2x scion capts
1x psycher

5x infantry (use CP to form 2 squads)

2x plasma scion command squads (ds with other scion capt)

3x 3 mortar heavy squads

Celestine is a problem, deepstriking BA are a problem, deepstriking plasma is a problem, freelance shield captains are a problem. Mortars + hurricane bolters for chaff/hordes, plasma + bikes + BA characters for hard targets, 50 guard bodies + scouts for board control/character meat shields? Hell if you ignore the scouts 21 s4 3+ attacks on the charge is nice (16 CC + 5 pistols) for 55 points.

Do I trade out celestine + culexus for 2x bikers (I've only ordered one box of bikes so far and really like my celestine model)?

2x bats + sc for 10 CP, regin cp relic for 1cp to one of scion capts (other relic to captian smash-fer).

bananathug wrote:
supreme command
3x shield bike captains
1x celestine
culexes


Blood angel batallion
sang preist
DC captian
sanguinor

3x CCW scouts

2x DC

IG bat
2x scion capts
1x psycher

5x infantry (use CP to form 2 squads)

2x plasma scion command squads (ds with other scion capt)

3x 3 mortar heavy squads

Celestine is a problem, deepstriking BA are a problem, deepstriking plasma is a problem, freelance shield captains are a problem. Mortars + hurricane bolters for chaff/hordes, plasma + bikes + BA characters for hard targets, 50 guard bodies + scouts for board control/character meat shields? Hell if you ignore the scouts 21 s4 3+ attacks on the charge is nice (16 CC + 5 pistols) for 55 points.

Do I trade out celestine + culexus for 2x bikers (I've only ordered one box of bikes so far and really like my celestine model)?

2x bats + sc for 10 CP, regin cp relic for 1cp to one of scion capts (other relic to captian smash-fer).

Jetbike Captains get a 5++ on that dettachment

I like the idea of the list above. But I think you should just eat it on the scouts and put Celestine in their detachment as an HQ. Who cares if scouts don't have a chapter bonus. It is a minor bonus compared to the 3++ and 4++ on your biker captains. And then drop the blood angel stuff. It isn't that strong and devours the CP that your bikers need. More bikers would do more. For instance:

pure CUSTODES supreme command
3x bikers + 1-2 bikers as points allow

SOUP battalion
Celestine
3x scouts [needed against good lists just for spacing]
Culexus
Some other HQ, probably primaris psyker or greyfax for 2 +1 denies

CADIA + Scions battalion
Only IG in here to keep bonuses

EDIT: you could work in blood angels if you ditch celestine. But ... I mean yeah I like 3d6 charges ... but celestine moves 24" and doesn't need CP to make that first turn charge if you want it.

bananathug wrote:
supreme command
3x shield bike captains
1x celestine
culexes


Blood angel batallion
sang preist
DC captian
sanguinor

3x CCW scouts

2x DC

IG bat
2x scion capts
1x psycher

5x infantry (use CP to form 2 squads)

2x plasma scion command squads (ds with other scion capt)

3x 3 mortar heavy squads

Celestine is a problem, deepstriking BA are a problem, deepstriking plasma is a problem, freelance shield captains are a problem. Mortars + hurricane bolters for chaff/hordes, plasma + bikes + BA characters for hard targets, 50 guard bodies + scouts for board control/character meat shields? Hell if you ignore the scouts 21 s4 3+ attacks on the charge is nice (16 CC + 5 pistols) for 55 points.

Do I trade out celestine + culexus for 2x bikers (I've only ordered one box of bikes so far and really like my celestine model)?

2x bats + sc for 10 CP, regin cp relic for 1cp to one of scion capts (other relic to captian smash-fer).

1 captain can take the 3++ bike.
Another can take the Eye for a 4++
The 3e captain has a 5++

Better to drop the Pimaris Psyker and put Celestine + Culexus in the Guard battalion. You dont need their traits anyway.
Now your captains have a 4++ and dont really need better so you can instead make a Tempestus Prime your warlord for Grand Strategis + Aquilla.

You need a Custodes Warlord to take Custodes Relics.

Shame we dont get a WT to recycle CPs, as theae relics are nnearly too good to pass up!

Spartacus wrote:
You need a Custodes Warlord to take Custodes Relics.

Shame we dont get a WT to recycle CPs, as theae relics are nnearly too good to pass up!

outside from the ones that give a 3++ invul save, what does everyone think some of the best relics are? Auric shackles strikes me as a handy one, partiuclary when fighting armies with large melee units with two attacks each as you're literally cutting their attacks in half.

Can you use the 'open the vaults' stratagem if you don't have a custodes warlord?

 DoomMouse wrote:
Can you use the 'open the vaults' stratagem if you don't have a custodes warlord?

All you need is an AC detachment that isn't an Auxiliary Support detachment. Page 73 of the codex (every codex has similar language).

meleti wrote:

 DoomMouse wrote:
Can you use the 'open the vaults' stratagem if you don't have a custodes warlord?

All you need is an AC detachment that isn't an Auxiliary Support detachment. Page 73 of the codex (every codex has similar language).

The stratagem entitles you to take one or two 'extra' Adeptus Custodes relics. Probably a bit open to interpretation, but Id read that as you would need to qualify for the first one before paying for additional ones. Probably needs a FAQ

Spartacus wrote:

meleti wrote:

 DoomMouse wrote:
Can you use the 'open the vaults' stratagem if you don't have a custodes warlord?

All you need is an AC detachment that isn't an Auxiliary Support detachment. Page 73 of the codex (every codex has similar language).

The stratagem entitles you to take one or two 'extra' Adeptus Custodes relics. Probably a bit open to interpretation, but Id read that as you would need to qualify for the first one before paying for additional ones. Probably needs a FAQ

there was an FAQ, DG one that applied to general. long as you have a detachment you qualify for the stratagem

 WindstormSCR wrote:

Spartacus wrote:

meleti wrote:

 DoomMouse wrote:
Can you use the 'open the vaults' stratagem if you don't have a custodes warlord?

All you need is an AC detachment that isn't an Auxiliary Support detachment. Page 73 of the codex (every codex has similar language).

The stratagem entitles you to take one or two 'extra' Adeptus Custodes relics. Probably a bit open to interpretation, but Id read that as you would need to qualify for the first one before paying for additional ones. Probably needs a FAQ

there was an FAQ, DG one that applied to general. long as you have a detachment you qualify for the stratagem

Woah right you are. Thats a big boon for soup lists.

Custodes lead by Warlord Guilliman it is then...

Awesome. Does that mean you can theoretically have 3 different detachments and up to 8 relics in a single list? Could be interesting to cherry pick the best from each codex alongside a guard brigade.

Fir custodes I was thinking of a 3 commander jetbike detachment with the relic and 'blood games' on the same model

 DoomMouse wrote:
Awesome. Does that mean you can theoretically have 3 different detachments and up to 8 relics in a single list? Could be interesting to cherry pick the best from each codex alongside a guard brigade.

Fir custodes I was thinking of a 3 commander jetbike detachment with the relic and 'blood games' on the same model

You'd only get 7 max, but yes, you can do it. (1 Free, +2, +2, +2)

I agree. Though it depends on what you’re going to be using the Captain for.

Kdash wrote:

 DoomMouse wrote:
Awesome. Does that mean you can theoretically have 3 different detachments and up to 8 relics in a single list? Could be interesting to cherry pick the best from each codex alongside a guard brigade.

Fir custodes I was thinking of a 3 commander jetbike detachment with the relic and 'blood games' on the same model

You'd only get 7 max, but yes, you can do it. (1 Free, +2, +2, +2)

I agree. Though it depends on what you’re going to be using the Captain for.

Massive meteorite of flaming death?

I really like the idea to run vanguard - great as an allied detachment.

What do you think about a mono bike army? I thought to start with something Like this :
+++ New Roster (Warhammer 40,000 8th Edition) [64 PL, 1195pts] +++

++ Outrider Detachment +1CP (Imperium - Adeptus Custodes) ++

+ HQ +

Shield-Captain on Dawneagle Jetbike: Auric Aquilis, Hurricane Bolter, Radiant Mantle, Warlord

+ Fast Attack +

Vertus Praetors
Vertus Praetor: Salvo Launcher
Vertus Praetor: Salvo Launcher
Vertus Praetor: Salvo Launcher

Vertus Praetors
Vertus Praetor: Hurricane Bolter
Vertus Praetor: Hurricane Bolter
Vertus Praetor: Hurricane Bolter
Vertus Praetor: Hurricane Bolter

Vertus Praetors
Vertus Praetor: Hurricane Bolter
Vertus Praetor: Hurricane Bolter
Vertus Praetor: Hurricane Bolter
Vertus Praetor: Hurricane Bolter

Created with BattleScribe

ansem90 wrote:
What do you think about a mono bike army? I thought to start with something Like this :
+++ New Roster (Warhammer 40,000 8th Edition) [64 PL, 1195pts] +++

++ Outrider Detachment +1CP (Imperium - Adeptus Custodes) ++

+ HQ +

Shield-Captain on Dawneagle Jetbike: Auric Aquilis, Hurricane Bolter, Radiant Mantle, Warlord

+ Fast Attack +

Vertus Praetors
Vertus Praetor: Salvo Launcher
Vertus Praetor: Salvo Launcher
Vertus Praetor: Salvo Launcher

Vertus Praetors
Vertus Praetor: Hurricane Bolter
Vertus Praetor: Hurricane Bolter
Vertus Praetor: Hurricane Bolter
Vertus Praetor: Hurricane Bolter

Vertus Praetors
Vertus Praetor: Hurricane Bolter
Vertus Praetor: Hurricane Bolter
Vertus Praetor: Hurricane Bolter
Vertus Praetor: Hurricane Bolter

Created with BattleScribe

Theyre gonna be a good unit for sure, we will see if they will be effective on their own.

If it were me I'd spread the salvo missiles amongst the squads, and give your Shield-Captain one of them. I think the advantages of having them all together is smaller than the extra protection of spreading them out. You dont want to give your opponent an obvious target.

I don't think a pure bike army is all that great TBH. They have S6 in melee which is okay but will struggle versus high-T enemy units.

 Primark G wrote:
I don't think a pure bike army is all that great TBH. They have S6 in melee which is okay but will struggle versus high-T enemy units.

Not really. Against an Imperial Knight 1 minimum squad of bikes should do 9.25 wounds. If they're re-rolling 1's to Hit it becomes 10.80. That's plenty enough damage in a heavy bike list to bring down T7 (fliers) and T8 (knights and tanks).

The Shield Captain on a bike should add 4.5 more wounds too. This isn't counting shooting attacks from anyone.