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Wulfey wrote:
Custodes don't need units that are lascannon bait when the entire army is already lascannon bait. The forgeworld models are priced out of competitive play, and GW even notes that they should not be used in competitive play. I think GW doesn't want to see resin in its tournament anymore. See also, Chapter Approved stomping all over resin models and making them cost 20% more points than plastic models for comparable mathhammer damage/durability amounts. See also again, Chapter Approved entirely shutting down every resin model with power level over 30 with a 50-100% points cost increase.

Where on Earth has GW said not to use resin/Forgeworld in competitive? You're gonna need to source that. I don't think they really care.

I believe Forgeworld was nerfed cause the studios can't communicate well for balance so GW put a hold on it. We'll see if it gets better in March. Note the Fire Raptor actually decreased in cost and Forgeworld armies like Elysians and Death Korps are still pretty good.

Regarding this, it's beta rules so we should all send feedback. Now's the time for change. I'm personally going to experiment with the Caladius this weekend.

The beta rules packet has a statement saying that Beta rules are not suitable for competitive play, they don't refer to ALL FW resin there.

for those wanting to listbuild and test the beta stuff, Battlescribe Files will have these in next release (already done, just waiting for a push) but to view/select them you will need to select "Use Beta Rules" under the No Force Org section.

I'm totally gonna play with this rules. I think a good way to playtest them is playing them 4 games each.
2 in a pure custodes army, 2 in a soup army with Imperial Guard.
After 4 games I'll drop the point costs of every unit of this by 10.

After 40 games (20 in pure custodes armies, 20 with Imperial Soup), with everything in this list being 100 points cheaper, I think I could have a nice data to analyze what prices feels better for them.
But this will probably take me 1 and a half month-2 months.

Dreads really should have received the +1 INV save boon from the Dex. As it stands, they gain nothing from being in a full Custodes detachment.

 Cephalobeard wrote:
Dreads really should have received the +1 INV save boon from the Dex. As it stands, they gain nothing from being in a full Custodes detachment.

and with so many elites choices that can really make them a less desirable choice. on the other hand I suppose it means you could include a dread painlessly in a vanguard detachment if you wanted some sisters of silence. 2 squads of sisters, a custodes dread and sword and board shield captain maybe?

BrianDavion wrote:

 Cephalobeard wrote:
Dreads really should have received the +1 INV save boon from the Dex. As it stands, they gain nothing from being in a full Custodes detachment.

and with so many elites choices that can really make them a less desirable choice. on the other hand I suppose it means you could include a dread painlessly in a vanguard detachment if you wanted some sisters of silence. 2 squads of sisters, a custodes dread and sword and board shield captain maybe?

If you're adding a soup detachment, take Celestine as the HQ.

Audustum wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

 Cephalobeard wrote:
Dreads really should have received the +1 INV save boon from the Dex. As it stands, they gain nothing from being in a full Custodes detachment.

and with so many elites choices that can really make them a less desirable choice. on the other hand I suppose it means you could include a dread painlessly in a vanguard detachment if you wanted some sisters of silence. 2 squads of sisters, a custodes dread and sword and board shield captain maybe?

If you're adding a soup detachment, take Celestine as the HQ.

One I was considering before was Celestine, and a trio of Culexus Assassins for some good anti-psyker defense, since Smite would really hurt them. However I didn't really want three, I only wanted two. So with the spear dread I could take him, two Culexi(?) And Celestine and lose nothing by doing so.

Yeah. It's... Bad planning.

 Cephalobeard wrote:
Dreads really should have received the +1 INV save boon from the Dex. As it stands, they gain nothing from being in a full Custodes detachment.

Use the Vexilla for dreads. Profit For Days!

 WindstormSCR wrote:
The beta rules packet has a statement saying that Beta rules are not suitable for competitive play, they don't refer to ALL FW resin there.

for those wanting to listbuild and test the beta stuff, Battlescribe Files will have these in next release (already done, just waiting for a push) but to view/select them you will need to select "Use Beta Rules" under the No Force Org section.

Also, you're my hero of the day. Thank you!

BS is really on top of their game.

 Primark G wrote:
BS is really on top of their game.

Its people like you and me that adds it to them. I have updated some DE ones in the past. Its not to hard, you can spend about an hour learning how it works and then make your own if you wanted too

Exalted.

So just to confirm it. A venerable contemptor Dreadnought have EXACTLY the
same profile as an Iron Hands contemptor and costs 32 pts more even with its PL (8) still the same?
It's easy to see how FW dreads seems almost playable in comparison.

I personally like the achillus. It's pricey, but the ability to deepstrike it using "from the golden light" means it can get into range to do work from the word go, and waste very little of its potential.

Audustum wrote:


Also, you're my hero of the day. Thank you!

There was some debate about the inclusion of beta rules, which is why the switch to show them is there. as far as custodes go I'm the main keeper of that file for the data project, so if anyone has suggestions for improvements, can always shoot me a PM

Thanks for all the fantastic support!

Ok.. i think i have my list i want to take, mostly b.c i like my SoB.

Custodes Outrider Detachment: 1332pts
Shield Captain on Bike, Hurricane bolters
Shield Captain on Bike, Hurricane bolters
Vertus Praeters x3, x3 Hurricane bolters
Vertus Praeters x3, x3 Hurricane bolters
Vertus Praeters x4, x4 Hurricane bolters

Imperial Outrider Detachment: 668pts
Celestine, 1 Gemini
Seraphim x5, x4 Inferno Pistols
Seraphim x5, x4 Inferno Pistols
Seraphim x5, x4 Inferno Pistols
Culexus Assasin
Culexus Assasin


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Are there better lists? For sure! But this is what i like

Very mobile, I like it. Culexus work very well with Custodes.

 Galas wrote:
I'm totally gonna play with this rules. I think a good way to playtest them is playing them 4 games each.
2 in a pure custodes army, 2 in a soup army with Imperial Guard.
After 4 games I'll drop the point costs of every unit of this by 10.

After 40 games (20 in pure custodes armies, 20 with Imperial Soup), with everything in this list being 100 points cheaper, I think I could have a nice data to analyze what prices feels better for them.
But this will probably take me 1 and a half month-2 months.

May i also suggest the following things to include in the testing?

Give the Caladius the same rule as the Sciaran Battle Tank for it's weapon
Change the Lastrum damage from 1 to 2 (someone pointed out that all the basic Custodes firepower does more damage than the "super powered" versions...
Change the Dreadnoughts shooting damage from D3 to 2 - potentially 3. Again, doesn't make a lot of sense that a Guardian Spear potentially does more damage per unsaved wound than a "las-pulsar".

These might be completely stupid changes that make them borderline OP, but should be considered from a internal codex balance point of view. If you need help running figures, let me know, i just don't have the resources and time to help test physical games right now though

I'm wanting to test an Exemplar, because I do believe 2x Supreme Commands of 3 Bike Captains w/ an Exemplar in each could function with an AM Battery, but I don't wanna throw the money at the models right now while their rules are erratic.

 Cephalobeard wrote:
I'm wanting to test an Exemplar, because I do believe 2x Supreme Commands of 3 Bike Captains w/ an Exemplar in each could function with an AM Battery, but I don't wanna throw the money at the models right now while their rules are erratic.

Got a regular contemptor floating about? Can easily proxy for testing purposes, and most reasonable people would be fine with that if its communicated clearly

Kdash wrote:

 Galas wrote:
I'm totally gonna play with this rules. I think a good way to playtest them is playing them 4 games each.
2 in a pure custodes army, 2 in a soup army with Imperial Guard.
After 4 games I'll drop the point costs of every unit of this by 10.

After 40 games (20 in pure custodes armies, 20 with Imperial Soup), with everything in this list being 100 points cheaper, I think I could have a nice data to analyze what prices feels better for them.
But this will probably take me 1 and a half month-2 months.

May i also suggest the following things to include in the testing?

Give the Caladius the same rule as the Sciaran Battle Tank for it's weapon
Change the Lastrum damage from 1 to 2 (someone pointed out that all the basic Custodes firepower does more damage than the "super powered" versions...
Change the Dreadnoughts shooting damage from D3 to 2 - potentially 3. Again, doesn't make a lot of sense that a Guardian Spear potentially does more damage per unsaved wound than a "las-pulsar".

These might be completely stupid changes that make them borderline OP, but should be considered from a internal codex balance point of view. If you need help running figures, let me know, i just don't have the resources and time to help test physical games right now though

Yeah. I'll make those changes for quality of life and playtest them with those stats. For this weekend I have already planned 8 games (4 saturday-4 sunday). I'll try to fit 10 games next week. GW should pay me for this!

What kind of Imperial Guard force you guys think would be the most efficient and cheese with this units? I'm trying to playtest them in a extremely competitive meta. But no Dark Reapers, I think that would skew my data because Dark Reapers are so OP and they are in line for the slaugther in march's FAQ. My objetive is to gather data that points for a "competitive but not OP" state for this units. Thats why I'm not using the obviously ultra-OP units agaisnt them, but still try them vs competitive lists.

 Amishprn86 wrote:
Ok.. i think i have my list i want to take, mostly b.c i like my SoB.

Custodes Outrider Detachment: 1332pts
Shield Captain on Bike, Hurricane bolters
Shield Captain on Bike, Hurricane bolters
Vertus Praeters x3, x3 Hurricane bolters
Vertus Praeters x3, x3 Hurricane bolters
Vertus Praeters x4, x4 Hurricane bolters

Imperial Outrider Detachment: 668pts
Celestine, 1 Gemini
Seraphim x5, x4 Inferno Pistols
Seraphim x5, x4 Inferno Pistols
Seraphim x5, x4 Inferno Pistols
Culexus Assasin
Culexus Assasin


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Are there better lists? For sure! But this is what i like

I feel like dropping a Culexus and 1 Praetor to get 2x Company Commanders and 3x10 guardsmen would really improve that list. You need something cheap to sit on objectives and you need something to absorb 3d6 charges out of deepstrike if you end up going second. Praetors are tough per model, but you don't want them absorbing first turn charges. Better to have 40 points of guard take the hit.

So I'm thinking about getting Custodes/Tempestus started with an Outrider detachment for the Custodes and bike all over the board, some IG artillery pieces and a bunch of MSU Tempestus squads deep striking to optimum points on the battlefield to hold objectives/give folks some plasma loving.

Now what I'm struggling with is I'm tempted to toss in an Allarus squad of five with an Allarus shield-captain as a way to further split enemy firepower. They can deal with the termies in their line, but if they do that's firepower not going other places and those Allarus look tough on paper. It's a pretty pricey deep strike bomb though, so I'm curious if this is a worthwhile strategy or are these guys just gonna get blown off the table before they do anything?

 Swiftblade wrote:
So I'm thinking about getting Custodes/Tempestus started with an Outrider detachment for the Custodes and bike all over the board, some IG artillery pieces and a bunch of MSU Tempestus squads deep striking to optimum points on the battlefield to hold objectives/give folks some plasma loving.

Now what I'm struggling with is I'm tempted to toss in an Allarus squad of five with an Allarus shield-captain as a way to further split enemy firepower. They can deal with the termies in their line, but if they do that's firepower not going other places and those Allarus look tough on paper. It's a pretty pricey deep strike bomb though, so I'm curious if this is a worthwhile strategy or are these guys just gonna get blown off the table before they do anything?

They won't get blown off as fast as something like a Blood Angels bomb, but you're better off buying more bikes. Just use the "From Golden Light" stratagem and deep strike 1/2 units for 1/3 CP.

EDIT: Except the Captains. Take an Allarus Captain then deep strike a bike or 2 bike squads with him using the stratagem.

Five Allarus with a terminator captain would be really good. They have the best strstegens.

 Primark G wrote:
Five Allarus with a terminator captain would be really good. They have the best strstegens.

Such as? Stooping dove looks like the best to me.

stratigo wrote:

 Primark G wrote:
Five Allarus with a terminator captain would be really good. They have the best strstegens.

Such as? Stooping dove looks like the best to me.

They can use -
Castellan Strike (extra -1ap on axes)
Concussion Grenade (no overwatch and -1 to hit)
Inescapable Vengeance (can target characters)
Unleash the Lions (splits the unit up into 1 model units)

They also have access to several of the generic ones as well (The axe one is generic, but, as you'll always be taking axes...)

Stooping Dive is pretty neat, but, it is 3CP and you have to remember that it's only 1 unit. You can pull off some fun combos with it though - but, it's pretty much an all or nothing thing that costs practically all of your CP

The tangle grenade is a good compliment to the bikes, and it's the only reason I include a unit of Terminators in my lists next to Bikes. That and their ability to shoot characters on demand, if possible. However your mileage with that one is more army dependant than the first.

3 CP is not worth it imo when there are so many other really good ones for 1 CP.