Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Would things that go well with Custodes not also be explicitly about them, by the context of the discussion?

I think it's a fair talking point for the thread. It's clearly not, tactically, viable to run them solo.

Yeah it’s totally legitimate. I just found it amusing to see almost a full page in the Custodes tactics discussing the merits of scouts, infantry squads and slamguinius - rather than custodes themselves.

Watched a pure Custodes force get tabled by Admech turn 4. It was brutal to watch. Fall back really hoses Custodes badly.

Mandragola wrote:
Odd how little this discussion has to do with Custodes, and how much it has to do with stuff to go with them.

In no way am I going to deviate from that.

It's because Bikes are such a clear standout that unless you want to make a Battalion for CP there isn't much to discuss about the Codex internally. Take Bikes. Take Guardians if you want CP. The Magnifica is a head and shoulders above any other vexilla outside soup.

Audustum wrote:

Mandragola wrote:
Odd how little this discussion has to do with Custodes, and how much it has to do with stuff to go with them.

In no way am I going to deviate from that.

It's because Bikes are such a clear standout that unless you want to make a Battalion for CP there isn't much to discuss about the Codex internally. Take Bikes. Take Guardians if you want CP. The Magnifica is a head and shoulders above any other vexilla outside soup.

I half agree that there's not a lot to discuss in terms of what actual stuff to take. Bikes are currently the clear winners there - though it will be very interesting to see if any points get changed in the March FAQs.

On the other hand, picking your army is only one side of things. There's also the tactics you use after you put them on the table, and I don't think that's been figured out completely yet.

Mandragola wrote:


Bikes are currently the clear winners there - though it will be very interesting to see if any points get changed in the March FAQs.

I know there has been a lot of discussion based on some rumors, but is there any precedent for points changes at all this coming march update?

I've not seen anything official to suggest it will be anything other than a main FAQ release. Errata can and most certainly will change rules for some units/armies, but for all these people discussing sweeping changes to points to rebalance armies, I expect their hopes to be severely let down (whereupon the moaning will recommence with furious intensity).

Or have I missed something?

Based on their previous patterns I also expect no changes whatsoever to Custodes or Tsons, they seem to be hesitant to include the most recently released publications in their rule balancing aside from the 2-week FAQ thing.

That army is really light on model count.

Spartacus wrote:

Mandragola wrote:


Bikes are currently the clear winners there - though it will be very interesting to see if any points get changed in the March FAQs.

I know there has been a lot of discussion based on some rumors, but is there any precedent for points changes at all this coming march update?

I've not seen anything official to suggest it will be anything other than a main FAQ release. Errata can and most certainly will change rules for some units/armies, but for all these people discussing sweeping changes to points to rebalance armies, I expect their hopes to be severely let down (whereupon the moaning will recommence with furious intensity).

Or have I missed something?

Based on their previous patterns I also expect no changes whatsoever to Custodes or Tsons, they seem to be hesitant to include the most recently released publications in their rule balancing aside from the 2-week FAQ thing.

The March FAQ itself is unprecedented so no, there's no precedent for anything. Just have to wait and see.

Point increases of any kind for Custodes is entirely unlikely.

They need a net decrease. However, this will likely be reserved for Chapter approved when they can charge you $$$ for point changes, instead of a large FAQ.

Audustum wrote:

Spartacus wrote:

Mandragola wrote:


Bikes are currently the clear winners there - though it will be very interesting to see if any points get changed in the March FAQs.

I know there has been a lot of discussion based on some rumors, but is there any precedent for points changes at all this coming march update?

I've not seen anything official to suggest it will be anything other than a main FAQ release. Errata can and most certainly will change rules for some units/armies, but for all these people discussing sweeping changes to points to rebalance armies, I expect their hopes to be severely let down (whereupon the moaning will recommence with furious intensity).

Or have I missed something?

Based on their previous patterns I also expect no changes whatsoever to Custodes or Tsons, they seem to be hesitant to include the most recently released publications in their rule balancing aside from the 2-week FAQ thing.

The March FAQ itself is unprecedented so no, there's no precedent for anything. Just have to wait and see.

Yeah it’s a brave new world.

The thing people may have missed is this article on warhammer community: https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/12/15/the-future-of-faqs-and-chapter-approved-dec-15gw-homepage-post-2/

In it, (in point 2) they say they’ll do a big faq update twice a year, and that this might change the rules for under or over-powered units, as well as fixing issues that need to be errata’d. Note that it doesn’t explicitly limit these changes in rules to points costs; in theory anything is up for grabs.

Personally I hope dark reapers get some attention from the nerf bat, and maybe something is done to limit spam in general.

i doubt there will be a point change to any units in the codex. I do hope that when FW gets around to releasing officials rules for Custodes units the points are not as high as what we saw when the released the experimental rules.

Ok so I want to make this better (likely by including scouts)

What do I drop?

Supreme Command:

3x Bike Captains

1x Vexilla with Magnifica, axe

Outrider

Bike Captain with relic bike

3x3 bikes (hurricane)

Soup Battalion

2x Company Commanders - warlord (5+ for each CP spent), 5+ when opponent spends CP relic

8 Infantry, mortar
8 Infantry, mortar
8 Infantry, mortar

3 Mortars
3 Mortars

Culexus
Callidus

2000

I would use two Culexus instead of the Callidus.

I, however, really like the Calidus. It's a good disruptive unit, and works very well in the current meta.

Did not Shadow Spectres get a point change a couple weeks after the elder dex release?

Something like that .....not sure of the timing but it was FW.

Still a precedence that point changes can happen sooner than later.

 admironheart wrote:
Did not Shadow Spectres get a point change a couple weeks after the elder dex release?

Something like that .....not sure of the timing but it was FW.

Still a precedence that point changes can happen sooner than later.

That was in CA.

Mandragola wrote:

Silentz, I had a look at your list and the first thing I'd drop is the Vexilla. There's literally no point whatsoever in giving your opponent a penalty to shoot at bike captains that he isn't allowed to shoot anyway, because they are characters. Note that its effect only works on Custodes.

Thanks for the feedback. That's a solid point - I could start them just behind a line of infantry to deny any shooting.

I can still see some advantages to the Vexilla Praetor

- Will allow me to deploy jetbikes outside the infantry screen, so the screen shape can stay focused on protecting the Leman Russes which fare MUCH worse in combat. Lemans will be on the back line, whereas bikes will want to be on the line.
- With reasonable advance rolls and the 6" aura it's not impossible for the praetor to keep pace with one or more of the jetbikes for a couple of turns.
- Pretty good in combat in his own right. Not amazing, but a threat. Also can get out and hold an objective.
- Opponents might (hopefully) shoot him first, diverting fire from the things that are more valuable.

I know no plan survives contact with the enemy but in my head I have the fantasy of T1 advancing the Praetor onto a midfield objective then next turn using the Plant The Vexilla stratagem to give a 24" bubble that the jetbikes can play in.

The question (which others can't really answer) is what from my collection could I take for the 122 points I would get back.

I don't unfortunately own any scouts of any kind (o_O) so... An intercessor squad? Bit boring. 2 primaris psykers? An eversor and one primaris psyker?

Maybe that last one. I have been a bit disappointed with the Eversor but another deep strike threat is nice. Plus Nightshroud -1 to hit on my Tank Commander might work.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Cephalobeard wrote:
I, however, really like the Calidus. It's a good disruptive unit, and works very well in the current meta.

Agree with this. Needs a bit of luck but an army that relies on CP to get their full effect like AdMech or Chaos can be left struggling, or delay their attack til turn 2.

I like the mind games of the Callidus' short range deepstrike. I am torn though on whether to remind my opponent they can deepstrike d6"+3" to make them castle up more and get more board control... or not tell them and try to find a gap.

The fact they do mortal wounds, have AP-3 and ignore invuln saves makes them super good against T4 or less HQs, or those buff characters that the other army rely on a bit... maybe a "warp time" wielding sorceror lord or something.

Mandragola wrote:
Odd how little this discussion has to do with Custodes, and how much it has to do with stuff to go with them.

In no way am I going to deviate from that.

Silentz, I had a look at your list and the first thing I'd drop is the Vexilla. There's literally no point whatsoever in giving your opponent a penalty to shoot at bike captains that he isn't allowed to shoot anyway, because they are characters. Note that its effect only works on Custodes.

I think ratlings are a potentially useful alternative to scouts. They aren't as good, but they are cheaper (slightly) and they have guns that might sometimes accomplish something.

As an elite choice, ratlings fit quite nicely in a vanguard detachment. This might mean that you can build a soup detachment containing something like Celestine, plus assorted units of ratlings and assassins.

I have this theory that ratlings are more useful than scouts when screens aren't needed. They can be sat in cover by an objective in your deployment zone and will occasionally kill something - unlike the scouts.

Here's my vague idea of what a list with ratlings in might look like. I've gone for my preferred approach of having as many bodies on the board as possible - though of course with a Custodes army that still isn't all that many. I'd rather that the vexilla guy had an axe but I can't seem to spare the point required, and actually I've got 15 guard models plus the FW event captain, so this fits my models perfectly.

Custodes Battalion.
Shield Captain with Axe 124
Shield Captain on (relic) bike 160
5 Guards with spears 260
5 Guards with spears 260
4 Guards with spears 208
Vexillus Magnifica with Spear 112
5 Bikes 450

Soup Vanguard
Celestine with two friends 250
Culexus 85
5 Ratlings 45
5 Ratlings 45

Do not take the Ratlings. Especially not at the cost of scouts. They deploy after both armies have deployed. Which means if your enemy is running scouts/nurglings, you get to place your Ratlings deep in your own deployment zone. If for some reason your opponent is not taking any of the units that go before them, they're okay. But losing the deployment denial war to two of biggest meta factions means they're a waste of points.

RogueApiary wrote:

Mandragola wrote:
Odd how little this discussion has to do with Custodes, and how much it has to do with stuff to go with them.

In no way am I going to deviate from that.

Silentz, I had a look at your list and the first thing I'd drop is the Vexilla. There's literally no point whatsoever in giving your opponent a penalty to shoot at bike captains that he isn't allowed to shoot anyway, because they are characters. Note that its effect only works on Custodes.

I think ratlings are a potentially useful alternative to scouts. They aren't as good, but they are cheaper (slightly) and they have guns that might sometimes accomplish something.

As an elite choice, ratlings fit quite nicely in a vanguard detachment. This might mean that you can build a soup detachment containing something like Celestine, plus assorted units of ratlings and assassins.

I have this theory that ratlings are more useful than scouts when screens aren't needed. They can be sat in cover by an objective in your deployment zone and will occasionally kill something - unlike the scouts.

Here's my vague idea of what a list with ratlings in might look like. I've gone for my preferred approach of having as many bodies on the board as possible - though of course with a Custodes army that still isn't all that many. I'd rather that the vexilla guy had an axe but I can't seem to spare the point required, and actually I've got 15 guard models plus the FW event captain, so this fits my models perfectly.

Custodes Battalion.
Shield Captain with Axe 124
Shield Captain on (relic) bike 160
5 Guards with spears 260
5 Guards with spears 260
4 Guards with spears 208
Vexillus Magnifica with Spear 112
5 Bikes 450

Soup Vanguard
Celestine with two friends 250
Culexus 85
5 Ratlings 45
5 Ratlings 45

Do not take the Ratlings. Especially not at the cost of scouts. They deploy after both armies have deployed. Which means if your enemy is running scouts/nurglings, you get to place your Ratlings deep in your own deployment zone. If for some reason your opponent is not taking any of the units that go before them, they're okay. But losing the deployment denial war to two of biggest meta factions means they're a waste of points.

I think it completely depends on the tournament and its rules. Some can be pretty limiting and therefore Ratlings can come into their own vs Scouts.

For example, if you can only have 1 battalion, an Imperium vanguard of ratlings is a nice, relatively cheap and provides that extra CP.

But yes, if there are no restrictions, then Scouts, and how they deploy, will always be of more value than the ratlings.

Happy to announce I've somehow obtained what must be the last remaining NOS Scout Bikes in existence in America after hunting them down for weeks, and will be building/painting up my full BA/Custodes list in the coming weeks.

Look forward to providing feedback once they're built and tested.

Why scout bikes Oo

Scout Bikes can move the same speed as Custodes captains, giving them a mobile screening unit to travel with them, which is also capable of handling screens alongside them.

Storm Bolter, 3x Twin Bolters, 3x Shotguns, 2s Bolt Pistols from each unit of 3, as well as 7 attacks with +1 to wound on the charge for a 25ppm T5 2W 16" move is a good ally, imo.

I'm running 5 Captains, and want them to be as disruptive as possible, so the combination of them, Allarus and Scout Bikes felt strong to me.

Trying to make a Custodes+AM list on a budget for 3-4 units + a land raider I already own for the Custodes detachment.

For the HQ part I am obviously set on Shield Captains on bikes,and the elite part will have one -1 to hit Vexilia and 1 Allarus, but my main indecision right is either turning into a Battalion detachment or a Vanguard Detachment.

For the Battalion I would have 3 groups of 3 models two with shields and 1 with Spear. One of these will start on the landraider and the Vexilia would deepstrike with the Allarus

For Vanguard detachment I would instead have a group of 4x Wardens in the Landraider with the Vexillia inside with them.

The advantage of the Battalion as I see it I would gain more CP and have more bodies on the table, however I wouldn't be taking the max advantage of the Landraider as a transport and dunno how effective footslogging custodes are.

The advantage of the Vanguard is that I am taking stronger units and making max use of the Land Raider as a delivery method (plus it saves me 40 bucks) , but I get less CP points and lose the durability of the Stormshields.

RogueApiary wrote:

Mandragola wrote:
Odd how little this discussion has to do with Custodes, and how much it has to do with stuff to go with them.

In no way am I going to deviate from that.

Silentz, I had a look at your list and the first thing I'd drop is the Vexilla. There's literally no point whatsoever in giving your opponent a penalty to shoot at bike captains that he isn't allowed to shoot anyway, because they are characters. Note that its effect only works on Custodes.

I think ratlings are a potentially useful alternative to scouts. They aren't as good, but they are cheaper (slightly) and they have guns that might sometimes accomplish something.

As an elite choice, ratlings fit quite nicely in a vanguard detachment. This might mean that you can build a soup detachment containing something like Celestine, plus assorted units of ratlings and assassins.

I have this theory that ratlings are more useful than scouts when screens aren't needed. They can be sat in cover by an objective in your deployment zone and will occasionally kill something - unlike the scouts.

Here's my vague idea of what a list with ratlings in might look like. I've gone for my preferred approach of having as many bodies on the board as possible - though of course with a Custodes army that still isn't all that many. I'd rather that the vexilla guy had an axe but I can't seem to spare the point required, and actually I've got 15 guard models plus the FW event captain, so this fits my models perfectly.

Custodes Battalion.
Shield Captain with Axe 124
Shield Captain on (relic) bike 160
5 Guards with spears 260
5 Guards with spears 260
4 Guards with spears 208
Vexillus Magnifica with Spear 112
5 Bikes 450

Soup Vanguard
Celestine with two friends 250
Culexus 85
5 Ratlings 45
5 Ratlings 45

Do not take the Ratlings. Especially not at the cost of scouts. They deploy after both armies have deployed. Which means if your enemy is running scouts/nurglings, you get to place your Ratlings deep in your own deployment zone. If for some reason your opponent is not taking any of the units that go before them, they're okay. But losing the deployment denial war to two of biggest meta factions means they're a waste of points.

Yeah I’ve had another look at the ratling rules and I think you’re right. Their deployment method is really weird, and honestly not at all well-written. As in, apparently they mean you’ll always count as having finished deploying last, so your opponent gets +1 on his roll for first turn. Not at all as good a unit as they first appear.

 Cephalobeard wrote:
Scout Bikes can move the same speed as Custodes captains, giving them a mobile screening unit to travel with them, which is also capable of handling screens alongside them.

Storm Bolter, 3x Twin Bolters, 3x Shotguns, 2s Bolt Pistols from each unit of 3, as well as 7 attacks with +1 to wound on the charge for a 25ppm T5 2W 16" move is a good ally, imo.

I'm running 5 Captains, and want them to be as disruptive as possible, so the combination of them, Allarus and Scout Bikes felt strong to me.

Yeah, scout bikers are beef and a great meat shield for biker captains. I wonder if ravenguard would be better since the goal is screening? Blood angels for sure fight better, but tanking ranged fire on turn 1 seems like the goal here. 77 points for like 20 boltgun equivalent shots at 12" is beef.

I think in a larger Imperium contxt Custodes are best seen as "elite hunter/killers" you use them to kill characters or terminators or anything else that could otherwise soak up a lot of firepower.

BrianDavion wrote:
I think in a larger Imperium contxt Custodes are best seen as "elite hunter/killers" you use them to kill characters or terminators or anything else that could otherwise soak up a lot of firepower.

In my games they function as late game board winners. After all the chaff is dead, they can run around and clear through force and then take game winning objectives. 1 shield captain can pretty consistently kill a 5 man marine squad a turn. I really want run them in a big tournament list. I keep getting stuck in smaller chapter approved games.

Hey guys, new to the army and trying to work with what I’ve bought (Trajann, 2 Guard boxes, 2 Terminator boxes, and 2 Jetbikes boxes. I need to bumpthe list down to 2000 points and I’m curious what you think of this before cuts:


++ Supreme Command Detachment +1CP (Imperium - Adeptus Custodes) [34 PL, 600pts] ++

+ HQ +

Shield-Captain on Dawneagle Jetbike [9 PL, 160pts]: Auric Aquilis, Hurricane Bolter, Warlord

Shield-Captain on Dawneagle Jetbike [9 PL, 160pts]: Hurricane Bolter

Shield-Captain on Dawneagle Jetbike [9 PL, 160pts]: Hurricane Bolter

+ Elites +

Vexillus Praetor in Allarus Terminator Armor [7 PL, 120pts]: Vexilla Defensor

++ Battalion Detachment +3CP (Imperium - Adeptus Custodes) [77 PL, 1523pts] ++

+ HQ +

Captain-General Trajann Valoris [10 PL, 250pts]

Shield Captain in Allarus Terminator Armor [8 PL, 142pts]: Guardian Spear

+ Troops +

Custodian Guard Squad [8 PL, 163pts]
. Custodian: Sentinel Blade, Storm Shield
. Custodian: Guardian Spear
. Custodian: Guardian Spear

Custodian Guard Squad [8 PL, 163pts]
. Custodian: Sentinel Blade, Storm Shield
. Custodian: Guardian Spear
. Custodian: Guardian Spear

Custodian Guard Squad [8 PL, 163pts]
. Custodian: Sentinel Blade, Storm Shield
. Custodian: Guardian Spear
. Custodian: Guardian Spear

+ Elites +

Allarus Custodians [13 PL, 252pts]
. Allarus Custodian: Castellan Axe
. Allarus Custodian: Castellan Axe
. Allarus Custodian: Castellan Axe

Vexillus Praetor in Allarus Terminator Armor [7 PL, 120pts]: Vexilla Defensor

+ Fast Attack +

Vertus Praetors [15 PL, 270pts]
. Vertus Praetor: Hurricane Bolter
. Vertus Praetor: Hurricane Bolter
. Vertus Praetor: Hurricane Bolter

++ Total: [111 PL, 2123pts] ++

seems a pretty good list. similer to what I wanna run. seems to be the simpliest way to shave points down to 2000 even would be remove one of the velexus preators.

BrianDavion wrote:
seems a pretty good list. similer to what I wanna run. seems to be the simpliest way to shave points down to 2000 even would be remove one of the velexus preators.

And the one remaining should be a Magnifica. Defensor does literally nothing for a pure custodes army.