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2018/04/28 23:11:18
Subject: Codex Adeptus Custodes: By His will alone
Vexilla Praetors on bikes, bikes with storm shields, transports that don't cost 400pts, Allarus being a bit cheaper/allowed to take storm shields, FW getting their act together and releasing the Custodes rules, etc. There's a lot of stuff that could turn Custodes from good to top tier.
Ghorros wrote: The moral of the story: Don't park your Imperial Knight in a field of Gretchin carrying power tools.
Marmatag wrote: All the while, my opponent is furious, throwing his codex on the floor, trying to slash his wrists with safety scissors.
2018/04/29 01:56:13
Subject: Codex Adeptus Custodes: By His will alone
I would rather get the -1 turn 2 than not all. I feel this shows one of the inherent weaknesses of as many dawneagles as possible.”
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/04/29 02:00:00
Bow down to Guilliman for he is our new God Emperor!
Martel - "Custodes are terrible in 8th. Good luck with them. They take all the problems of marines and multiply them."
"Lol, classic martel. 'I know it was strong enough to podium in the biggest tournament in the world but I refuse to acknowledge space marines are good because I can't win with them and it can't possibly be ME'."
DakkaDakka is really the place where you need anti-tank guns to kill basic dudes, because anything less isn't durable enough.
2018/04/29 02:04:21
Subject: Codex Adeptus Custodes: By His will alone
... what? You'd literally have it turn one and turn two if you just kept the damn thing on the table.
I've being giving you as much credit as possible, but you cannot possibly be serious at these series of arguments. It's just nonsense and I can't believe you genuinely don't see that, despite literally being told and shown over and over.
If it's on the table you have it turn one, turn two, and probably even turn 3. You deploy it further up, move and advance, it has a long enough radius and you can just Daisy chain bikes with zero issues.
If you don't sieze it and/or go second, you gain no benefit, decide to deploy it in your own deployment zone, or take another round of shooting.
It's just worse.
They're no nuance, there's nothing we "don't see", there's no tactical madman, it's literally just worse. It's not special. It's not smart. It's stupid.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/04/29 02:06:04
I don’t play all jetbikes like you do and I never would first because I do not think it is the most competitive build, second because of my success with my list and third if we look at the best list at Adepticon it was not maxing dawneagles. IMO you and some others think all dawneagke is the best and are totally closed to anything else. I have beat dawneagle spam with my current list and Nidz. Sure dawnegos are easy mode for sure though.
Bow down to Guilliman for he is our new God Emperor!
Martel - "Custodes are terrible in 8th. Good luck with them. They take all the problems of marines and multiply them."
"Lol, classic martel. 'I know it was strong enough to podium in the biggest tournament in the world but I refuse to acknowledge space marines are good because I can't win with them and it can't possibly be ME'."
DakkaDakka is really the place where you need anti-tank guns to kill basic dudes, because anything less isn't durable enough.
2018/04/29 02:23:36
Subject: Codex Adeptus Custodes: By His will alone
Alright. You genuinely either don't get it or are refusing to get it. Either way, way, this is going nowhere. I would advise, for the second time in this thread, we all cease this discussion and move on.
Bow down to Guilliman for he is our new God Emperor!
Martel - "Custodes are terrible in 8th. Good luck with them. They take all the problems of marines and multiply them."
"Lol, classic martel. 'I know it was strong enough to podium in the biggest tournament in the world but I refuse to acknowledge space marines are good because I can't win with them and it can't possibly be ME'."
DakkaDakka is really the place where you need anti-tank guns to kill basic dudes, because anything less isn't durable enough.
2018/04/29 03:04:28
Subject: Codex Adeptus Custodes: By His will alone
This is the Tactics subforum, and Bikes were proven SEVERAL times to be super effective. You're choosing to be contrarian just for the sake of being contrarian at this point. Why?
CaptainStabby wrote: If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.
jy2 wrote: BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.
vipoid wrote: Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?
MarsNZ wrote: ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
2018/04/29 03:09:16
Subject: Codex Adeptus Custodes: By His will alone
Bow down to Guilliman for he is our new God Emperor!
Martel - "Custodes are terrible in 8th. Good luck with them. They take all the problems of marines and multiply them."
"Lol, classic martel. 'I know it was strong enough to podium in the biggest tournament in the world but I refuse to acknowledge space marines are good because I can't win with them and it can't possibly be ME'."
DakkaDakka is really the place where you need anti-tank guns to kill basic dudes, because anything less isn't durable enough.
2018/04/29 05:45:05
Subject: Re:Codex Adeptus Custodes: By His will alone
Even if you don’t run bikes, it still makes more sense to start the vexila on the table. It moves at the same speed as your infantry, and if you deepstrike stuff in the implication is that the deepstrikers will be assaulting and not in need of the -1. But if you really wanted that extra protection, why not just take another vexilla? It’s basically the same points as it’s version of a shield captain (allarus/normal) with 1 less wound/attack, and in the non-allarus version you can still take whatever melee weapon you want.
Hope is the first step on the road to disappointment.
2018/04/29 08:50:40
Subject: Codex Adeptus Custodes: By His will alone
What do you guys think about taking Victor of the Blood Games more than once? Worth it without Grand Strategist?
Also, what about Praetorian Plate on a vexilla praetor? Turn 1 set up a charge with a bike captain and some other bikes, turn 2 charge. During enemy's fight phase, teleport the vexilla next to the enemy. Turn 3 use the vexilla teleport homer and drop a bunch of Allarus terminators into combat. It's unfortunate how many turns this takes, plus it takes 3 CP and a relic. It works a lot better if your opponent charges your captain turn 1 or if you pull off a first turn charge.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/04/30 16:10:39
2018/04/30 16:22:35
Subject: Codex Adeptus Custodes: By His will alone
Victor is based on how many CP you have. I like to plot out how many CP I expect to use in a game (then add a few extra just in case) and if I have points left over Victor is an instant buy.
If you think you'll use cp to reroll saves for your captain at least twice in the game, its work buying.
2018/04/30 17:13:06
Subject: Codex Adeptus Custodes: By His will alone
If I think I can spare the CP I use it on one Shield-Captain.
Bow down to Guilliman for he is our new God Emperor!
Martel - "Custodes are terrible in 8th. Good luck with them. They take all the problems of marines and multiply them."
"Lol, classic martel. 'I know it was strong enough to podium in the biggest tournament in the world but I refuse to acknowledge space marines are good because I can't win with them and it can't possibly be ME'."
DakkaDakka is really the place where you need anti-tank guns to kill basic dudes, because anything less isn't durable enough.
2018/04/30 17:17:45
Subject: Codex Adeptus Custodes: By His will alone
Meatgrinder wrote: Victor is based on how many CP you have. I like to plot out how many CP I expect to use in a game (then add a few extra just in case) and if I have points left over Victor is an instant buy.
If you think you'll use cp to reroll saves for your captain at least twice in the game, its work buying.
About the same here. Get a rough idea of what CP I'll NEED for that match and then put Victor on Shield-Captains till I run out of spare CP or Captains.
2018/04/30 17:19:00
Subject: Codex Adeptus Custodes: By His will alone
Meatgrinder wrote: Victor is based on how many CP you have. I like to plot out how many CP I expect to use in a game (then add a few extra just in case) and if I have points left over Victor is an instant buy.
If you think you'll use cp to reroll saves for your captain at least twice in the game, its work buying.
About the same here. Get a rough idea of what CP I'll NEED for that match and then put Victor on Shield-Captains till I run out of spare CP or Captains.
How much spare CP do you budget?
2018/04/30 23:26:57
Subject: Codex Adeptus Custodes: By His will alone
Meatgrinder wrote: Victor is based on how many CP you have. I like to plot out how many CP I expect to use in a game (then add a few extra just in case) and if I have points left over Victor is an instant buy.
If you think you'll use cp to reroll saves for your captain at least twice in the game, its work buying.
About the same here. Get a rough idea of what CP I'll NEED for that match and then put Victor on Shield-Captains till I run out of spare CP or Captains.
How much spare CP do you budget?
Depends a lot on my opponent, which CP allows us to decide per match. You use Victor when you deploy the guy thankfully. My lists usually run 8-12 CP for Custodes. I tend to use Victor once or twice.
2018/04/30 23:41:50
Subject: Codex Adeptus Custodes: By His will alone
2 CP is a lot for Custodes and my current list has 8 CP so against a lot of armies I probably won't use it unless I am really counting a lot on my Warlord.
Bow down to Guilliman for he is our new God Emperor!
Martel - "Custodes are terrible in 8th. Good luck with them. They take all the problems of marines and multiply them."
"Lol, classic martel. 'I know it was strong enough to podium in the biggest tournament in the world but I refuse to acknowledge space marines are good because I can't win with them and it can't possibly be ME'."
DakkaDakka is really the place where you need anti-tank guns to kill basic dudes, because anything less isn't durable enough.
2018/05/01 17:06:27
Subject: Re:Codex Adeptus Custodes: By His will alone
I've been giddy recently about using my R&H for the first time since 7th as a supporting force for my Custodes, so here's a list that uses one of my R&H tanks that haven't been able to field since 6th:
It's based off of that surprise Shadowsword list that made the rounds where the Shadowsword + infantry were supported by lots of fast, tough CC units. One thing I can't decide is whether to keep the Custodian infantry for the 13CP or drop them in favour of more bikes but only have 9CP.
What do you think?
Ghorros wrote: The moral of the story: Don't park your Imperial Knight in a field of Gretchin carrying power tools.
Marmatag wrote: All the while, my opponent is furious, throwing his codex on the floor, trying to slash his wrists with safety scissors.
2018/05/01 17:31:25
Subject: Codex Adeptus Custodes: By His will alone
Hmm, CP or more bikes is one of the few areas it's a wash. You have lots of objective holders so don't worry about needing the Guardians for that either.
Maybe this will help clarify it: IF you keep the Guardians, I'd drop the second Dawneagle Captain for a Vexilla Praetor with the -1 to Hit flag. He adds a lot of survivability to Guardians. If you want to keep the second Dawneagle Captain, I'd drop the Guardians and just take more bikes.
Also, I'd make the Company Commander your Warlord. Use Grand Strategist and Kurov's Aquila as long as you can, then when the Company Commander dies pay 1 CP for Shoulder the Mantle and move it on to the Dawneagle Captain (he generates a Warlord trait when you do).
2018/05/01 17:37:36
Subject: Codex Adeptus Custodes: By His will alone
Played two 1k point games against 1k Sons the other day.
I ran a battalion with 2 bike captains with 3++, 3 squads of 3 guard, and a vexilla magnifica, with an aux detachment with 1 vindicare.
He ran something like 3 squads of 10 rubrics, an exalted sorceror on a disc and a daemon prince.
That winged daemon prince with his buffed S10 (diabolic strength) D3 and additional attacks on to-hit of 6 was ripping apart my custodes guard left and right, and his extra movement phase from warptime pretty much guaranteed charges whenever he needed one. And death hex... oh man, death hex. RIP shield captains.
Smite spam from everything pretty consistently downed my dudes, although I did roll a 6 to save against them a few times. Inferno boltguns are perfect against custodes, reducing their 2+ to 4+, same as their invul. Soulreaper cannons are also amazing, and the squad-level force stave hurts as well. Hurricane bolters don't do anything to rubric squads, but guardian spear shooting is decently effective.
I tabled him both games, but they were probably due to mistakes on his part and the vindicare killing his exalted sorceror pretty consistently. I downed the daemon prince in game one by throwing both shield captains at him, then shooting him with the vindicare after he killed the captains. I downed him in game two by throwing two custodes guard squads at him... 5 died and the last guard managed to finish off the prince with a 3 damage spear stab. A lone bike captain can generally take an entire rubic squad by himself in combat, but it takes a long time. A squad of 3 custodes guard can also take a full rubic squad in combat... if they make it there.
2018/05/01 17:41:02
Subject: Codex Adeptus Custodes: By His will alone
Audustum wrote: Hmm, CP or more bikes is one of the few areas it's a wash. You have lots of objective holders so don't worry about needing the Guardians for that either.
Maybe this will help clarify it: IF you keep the Guardians, I'd drop the second Dawneagle Captain for a Vexilla Praetor with the -1 to Hit flag. He adds a lot of survivability to Guardians. If you want to keep the second Dawneagle Captain, I'd drop the Guardians and just take more bikes.
If I lose the second Captain then I lose the +5CP; a Vexilla is an elite not an HQ.
Also, I'd make the Company Commander your Warlord. Use Grand Strategist and Kurov's Aquila as long as you can, then when the Company Commander dies pay 1 CP for Shoulder the Mantle and move it on to the Dawneagle Captain (he generates a Warlord trait when you do).
Is the CP regeneration worth losing the 3++ AND the 5+++ on the Shield Captain? The best thing about him is that he can soak up so much damage (I took him against Tau last week for a 1000pts game: he soaked up TWO rounds of the entire Tau armies firepower before going down, that was enough time for the Guardians and the Guard to run up the board and swamp over his battlesuits).
Ghorros wrote: The moral of the story: Don't park your Imperial Knight in a field of Gretchin carrying power tools.
Marmatag wrote: All the while, my opponent is furious, throwing his codex on the floor, trying to slash his wrists with safety scissors.
2018/05/01 17:58:41
Subject: Codex Adeptus Custodes: By His will alone
mrhappyface wrote: Is the CP regeneration worth losing the 3++ AND the 5+++ on the Shield Captain? The best thing about him is that he can soak up so much damage (I took him against Tau last week for a 1000pts game: he soaked up TWO rounds of the entire Tau armies firepower before going down, that was enough time for the Guardians and the Guard to run up the board and swamp over his battlesuits).
You can use 1CP to give him Auric Acquilas.
2018/05/01 18:05:31
Subject: Codex Adeptus Custodes: By His will alone
Audustum wrote: Hmm, CP or more bikes is one of the few areas it's a wash. You have lots of objective holders so don't worry about needing the Guardians for that either.
Maybe this will help clarify it: IF you keep the Guardians, I'd drop the second Dawneagle Captain for a Vexilla Praetor with the -1 to Hit flag. He adds a lot of survivability to Guardians. If you want to keep the second Dawneagle Captain, I'd drop the Guardians and just take more bikes.
If I lose the second Captain then I lose the +5CP; a Vexilla is an elite not an HQ.
Also, I'd make the Company Commander your Warlord. Use Grand Strategist and Kurov's Aquila as long as you can, then when the Company Commander dies pay 1 CP for Shoulder the Mantle and move it on to the Dawneagle Captain (he generates a Warlord trait when you do).
Is the CP regeneration worth losing the 3++ AND the 5+++ on the Shield Captain? The best thing about him is that he can soak up so much damage (I took him against Tau last week for a 1000pts game: he soaked up TWO rounds of the entire Tau armies firepower before going down, that was enough time for the Guardians and the Guard to run up the board and swamp over his battlesuits).
Yeah my brain was in Outrider Detachment mode (only 1 HQ required).
As noted, you can give the Captain the 3++ with 1 CP. He only loses the 5+++ until the Company Commander dies, then Shoulder the Mantle lets him grab it right back! It all comes down to timing and when you really need that defensive buff on him.
mrhappyface wrote: Is the CP regeneration worth losing the 3++ AND the 5+++ on the Shield Captain? The best thing about him is that he can soak up so much damage (I took him against Tau last week for a 1000pts game: he soaked up TWO rounds of the entire Tau armies firepower before going down, that was enough time for the Guardians and the Guard to run up the board and swamp over his battlesuits).
You can use 1CP to give him Auric Acquilas.
Credit where it's due. You said it first.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/05/01 18:05:43
2018/05/01 18:34:07
Subject: Codex Adeptus Custodes: By His will alone
mrhappyface wrote: You can't spend 1CP to give the shield captain a relic though as you can only take relics from your warlord's army.
Aha, see the FAQ's (though I forget which one). You can use the Stratagem to give a relic for any faction as long as you have access to that faction's Stratagems. Doesn't matter if it's the same as the Warlord or not. The Warlord just gets a freebie.
