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Moosatronic Warrior wrote:
I continue to be baffled by the apparent success of triple Doom Scythes. The stratagem doesn't do that much damage as far as I can see (only own 2 so never tested it), like, if you hit most of my lists with that it wouldn't be crippling. I feel like it's got to be a ton of Methodical Destruction/ MWBD Tesla doing the heavy lifting in that list. Move blocking with aircraft still works well despite the FAQ so that helps, and they can screen vs deepstrike assault units.

I find that they give us a good chance against tau, as if they castle up we auto win by using strat on the drones. or if they spread out, its easier to clear threats compared to their normal castle.

considering so many people got nerfed and tau got buffed. im starting to always prepare to play against tau at some point at an event now

In addition to the other points, the triple doom scythes also have the benefit of being -1 to hit. When combined with our current trend of 3 Quantum Shielded DDAs, we end up with a pretty tanky list.

I've posted about a very similar list to the GP one (with the only change being a Lord with Veil plus the third squad being Gauss), and I'm very pleased to see it show results.

moonsmite wrote:

Moosatronic Warrior wrote:
I continue to be baffled by the apparent success of triple Doom Scythes. The stratagem doesn't do that much damage as far as I can see (only own 2 so never tested it), like, if you hit most of my lists with that it wouldn't be crippling. I feel like it's got to be a ton of Methodical Destruction/ MWBD Tesla doing the heavy lifting in that list. Move blocking with aircraft still works well despite the FAQ so that helps, and they can screen vs deepstrike assault units.

I find that they give us a good chance against tau, as if they castle up we auto win by using strat on the drones. or if they spread out, its easier to clear threats compared to their normal castle.

considering so many people got nerfed and tau got buffed. im starting to always prepare to play against tau at some point at an event now

You mean the +1 to hit strat then? so the teslas do work? (as I don't see the other option, the 3D3 MW being particularly useful against drones)


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Moosatronic Warrior wrote:
I continue to be baffled by the apparent success of triple Doom Scythes. The stratagem doesn't do that much damage as far as I can see (only own 2 so never tested it), like, if you hit most of my lists with that it wouldn't be crippling. I feel like it's got to be a ton of Methodical Destruction/ MWBD Tesla doing the heavy lifting in that list. Move blocking with aircraft still works well despite the FAQ so that helps, and they can screen vs deepstrike assault units.

I feel the same.. I guess I'll finish up my three models and take them to town.

I did try them once against AM, and they did in deed wreck havock (they were also backe by 2 DDAs), but I got to go first and had them for two turns, cripling 2 out of 3 LRBT's in a corner, and then devastating three tightly packed infantry units those two turns. After that the Death rays no the two remaining flyers did nothing and the teslas just plunked off shots here and there, helping with what ever else my army was doing.

But there is certainly a disrupting effect to them. My opponent then tended to reorganize to deal with them in his front yard, rather than move up-field in a well coordinated manner.

Tau when they castle up ready to overwatch with full army have tons of small unlts, particularly drones, bunched up. You will wipe tons

Your kidding right? Majority of drone units are 5-6 in each one and have to be 3" away from their target. so the 3d6 gets to go off on 3+ and average of 6 mortal wounds for each unit you can clip.

Then you have 24 tesla shots to start shooting down the rest of the drones which passed their fnp or were out of range of the beam.

managed to get this off and only hit two units of drones, but by the end of the first shooting, there was only one unit of drones left and i managed to shoot my doomsday's directly at some broadsides with no drone protection.

as they had to split their units to avoid me getting a huge hit with my beam it allowed me too take some units down and give me a chance. though if they castled up like most tau players, there would of been no drones left

moonsmite wrote:
Your kidding right? Majority of drone units are 5-6 in each one and have to be 3" away from their target. so the 3d6 gets to go off on 3+ and average of 6 mortal wounds for each unit you can clip.

Then you have 24 tesla shots to start shooting down the rest of the drones which passed their fnp or were out of range of the beam.

managed to get this off and only hit two units of drones, but by the end of the first shooting, there was only one unit of drones left and i managed to shoot my doomsday's directly at some broadsides with no drone protection.

as they had to split their units to avoid me getting a huge hit with my beam it allowed me too take some units down and give me a chance. though if they castled up like most tau players, there would of been no drones left

Had similar experience against Tau. He splitted his army in two, and hide behind LoS blocking terrain. The Scythes found a line of sight anyway. His defensive deployment also kinda gave me the board and the objectives.

I don't know if it is a reliable technique against a skilled opponent, and it is kinda first turn dependent, but it certainly put a lot of pressure. The menace of the stratagem is messing with the opponent's deployment and target priority.

Kurs against something tightly packed, anything that is area-effect is usually a good thing.

I was thinking more in terms of unit stats, and Tau drones sometimes being 1-2 model units where it would be overkill.

Anyway. Disregard me.

I think we are seeing a backlash against stacked buffs on units. Notice that things like the Vindicare assassin and Doomscythe stratagem becoming popular, meaning that you can hit associated support characters.

I played a triple Doomscythe list a few weeks back, and made a big deployment mistake. It's certainly not as easy as, say, slapping a knight on the table and removing everything you point at. But, it's not bad either.

Got massacred today vs blood angels. Made whole bunch of mistakes and top of that dice was ice cold. Mistakes in order>

a) deploying doomsday ark bit too far MIGHT have been mistake. I was preparing for him getting T1(tournament used the altering deployment with first one to finish getting +1 to roll so we useed it) and was leery of death company of bazillion attacks or the librarian dreadnought with his 8"+12"+charge potential. Here though after getting first turn I could only see death company. Librarian dreadnought managed to actually block LOS to the baal predator.
b) taking first turn might have been mistake. My first turn I could pretty much just shoot with tomb blades, doomsday ark(death company with main guns, small guns out of range) and death scythe that raced to his deployment zone to score double vp from behind the enemy lines(the scenario had similar maelstrom thing to tactical gambit).
c) not my mistake per se but this backfired spectacularly when he discarded 2 for 1 and got priority orders and big game hunter. That was whopping 8 vp if his warlord(the sanquinary special character) kills my death scythe. He softened it with banner bearer with fist and when he got 4 past saves I was chanting "kill kill kill" needing 9 wounds but alas he got 8. 100% sure he would have rerolled the 3 wounds had he killed the flier.
d) T1 I charged with wraiths vs death company. While I killed 5 they died in return attack. I def felt lack of h2h counter charge unit later
e) first turn too cautious with movement. Should have moved boldly forward. As it is T2 I was STILL out of range with 24" guns.
f) veiled with immortals to his rear. Bad bad idea. That veil would have been gold later as would have been the warscythe overlord vs those infernal sanquinary guard.

In the end I couldn't deal with sanquinary, the banner bearer, death company, sanquinary guard, some scouts, 3d6 charging assasin etc that were tagging me into close combat. I had to flee and use DDA and tomb blades to do killing which just wasn't enough despite doing fairly well overall. But those 2++ jump pack 2 wound powerfist guys with buffs were just too nasty.

After turn 5 it was like 20-5 and I had dda, overlord and that's about it left.

The other thing to keep in mind with Doom Scythes is in ITC, they make it very easy to pick up Recon and Behind Enemy Lines point on the first few turns. Then your units that are moving up will scoop up the rest in later turns.

Any chance that people who are reporting from Tournaments or games please put their experience (bad and good) into a Spoiler.

People come here to find and discuss tactics. Not to see how some one fudged up a game they played. Especially when its a wall of text with no proper paragraphs to make the reading easier.

I know this is a tactical forum and i'm really sry that my post is not tactic related but i feel you guys are the only people that can rly understand me...

I'm playing with friends in a local group and feel pretty mobbed.
We are house rouling a few things we think don't make much sense like big models provide cover to smaller ones behind them and for the most part i'm totally ok with it. But recently the house rules started to become completly anti necron...
Here are a few of them:

-Can't use the reanimation stratagem on wraith squats larger than 3.
-Max Squat-size for Tomb Blades is 6
-Can't use Vail of Darkness turn 1
-We are using deepstrike rules from 7 edition with scatter 2 D6 pick the lowest and models have to be played in coicentric cirles (which doesn't sound anti necron but im the only one with big unit squads that deepstrike [20x Warriors with Veil]) + you can't deepstrike above ground Level and with the terrain we mostly use this means i can't deepstrike in or near cover (thanks to sqatter rule units get destroyed if the land in a Wall)
-we just got allowed to ignore dmg of 1 with quantum deflection stratagem which got immidatly overrulled...

And a few things that are still being discussed for House rules:

-can't use advance and charge stratagem on wraith squats with more than 3
-using Veil to get out of combat counts as falling Back

I just wanted to get this of my soul. I mean i'm still winning most of my games.
U guys don't have to answer this post was mostly for myself.

PS: sry for any spelling fails
PPS: befor you ask. No other fraction don't have any house rules against them

Seems like a reasonable complaint, Surtr, but I'd make an independent thread for it. This is, as you noted, the tactics thread.

It sounds like your group is full of low tier players that can not think out of a wet paper bag. These "rules" are in no way logical, just passion and fear.
If you are still beating them then they need to play with a handicap for a chance, at least at their poor ability to play the game.

If you want a real game ask for it and if they are too scared then go to a different game shop for one. It might be you are the big fish in your small pond and you have out grown them tactically.

Surtr wrote:
I know this is a tactical forum and i'm really sry that my post is not tactic related but i feel you guys are the only people that can rly understand me...

sry and rly are not in the English dictionary, download Grammarly. Whether this is the right place to post depends on what you want? Do you want to whine, do you want help figuring out the social situation you are in or do you want to win? House rules and comps have been a part of at the very least Warhammer Fantasy Battles since way back, I think it's perfectly natural to ask the Necrons 8th ed. tactica thread how to beat a scene that has house rules, ITC is just house rules as well. You already know whether this is fair and this is not the place to ask how to talk to your friends or to whine. Maybe your friends just want casual games and you are too into the competitive side of things, start putting some handicaps on yourself, while the rules technically aren't fair, it isn't fair either if your opponents are bringing fluffy Word Bearers with 20 man CSM blobs and you bring a competitive Necron list. Let us assume that is not the case and you want to continue beating them.

Surtr wrote:
I know this is a tactical forum and i'm really sry that my post is not tactic related but i feel you guys are the only people that can rly understand me...Here are a few of them:

You need to post all of them if you want actual help otherwise we can go back and forth and I'll give you 7 different lists that are more powerful than what you are bringing now and you can start pulling my leg by saying "oh that is actually also banned".

Surtr wrote:

-Can't use the reanimation stratagem on wraith squats larger than 3.
-Max Squat-size for Tomb Blades is 6
-Can't use Vail of Darkness turn 1
-We are using deepstrike rules from 7 edition with scatter 2 D6 pick the lowest and models have to be played in coicentric cirles (which doesn't sound anti necron but im the only one with big unit squads that deepstrike [20x Warriors with Veil]) + you can't deepstrike above ground Level and with the terrain we mostly use this means i can't deepstrike in or near cover (thanks to sqatter rule units get destroyed if the land in a Wall)
-we just got allowed to ignore dmg of 1 with quantum deflection stratagem which got immediately overruled...

And a few things that are still being discussed for House rules:

-can't use advance and charge stratagem on wraith squats with more than 3
-using Veil to get out of combat counts as falling Back

With the old DS rules, I'd avoid using 90% of units that DS, Veil of Darkness is still good even if it is useless T1, but if they nerf it so it counts as falling back I'd stop using it. The nerf to Quantum Deflection is perfectly reasonable, whoever wrote that FAQ doesn't know the rules, they were just making gak up on the spot. I think TBs are still fine in units of 3-6, it's no big deal that you cannot use the big squads. I would stop using Warriors because they are gak without the Veil, use them to proxy Tesla Immortals instead. 3x5 Tesla Immortals, Overlord, Lord, Seraptek Heavy Construct, Gauss Pylon, Gauss Pylon. Place the Pylons on the table. Use cardboard cutouts to field your Seraptek Heavy Construct and Gauss Pylons, they'll probably get nerfed next. Now we move on to 3x10 Tesla Immortals, Imotekh, Lord, 3x DDA, 3x Doom Scythe, Tomb Blades and Scarabs to fill out pts. Next, they nerf DDAs and Doom Scythes, so we spam Destroyers, 18 of them, the rest of your army is Tesla Immortals, Tomb Blades and Scarabs. Next they nerf Destroyers and Tesla Immortals, we move on to 18 Novokh Wraiths, we don't use a Cryptek so the Revival Strat is not important and we do not play Nephrekh so Advance and Charge is less important as well, Destroyer Lord with Crimson Haze WL trait, Nightbringer and Scarabs and Tomb Blades to fill out pts. If they nerf Wraiths and Scarabs you quit. I have played in a group with house rules as well and the politics is a nightmare, playing in a competitive group gets rid of most of those problems because all you need is a little bit of common sense and RAW.

Sorry if this is a repost, but has this been noticed yet?

Huh, that's weird. I wonder what that's about. Index Necron is really out of date, so it can't be referring to that provisional rule set.

White dwarf articles are often index: XXX named so maybe something in white dwarf. If we are super lucky there's some new rules in there. If not just fluff.

That book, what's-it-called that brought CP costed detachments, Necrons got nothing but were promised to get something later. Maybe that's it.

If so hopefully actually useful ones and not be giant nerf ala ynnari

Not that specialist det's are likely going to be big game changer for necrons anyway. They generally require cp and necrons aren'"t filled with them. Best case they have very good relic to use taking cp cost to just 2/3 cp(keeping in mind you still want veil likely)

I find the CP detatchments add a bit of bloat to the game but new rules are welcome. I wonder if they'll give us additional strategems or change any datasheets.

Well any new stratagems would be in the special det's almost certainly. So you need to unlock them with CP. Not too bad for chaos, eldar, imperium, orks, tyranids etc with easy 2 battallions+. Harder for necrons.

Datasheets I'm not expecting.

Surtr wrote:
I know this is a tactical forum and i'm really sry that my post is not tactic related but i feel you guys are the only people that can rly understand me...

I don't think there's anything wrong with a small group placing handicaps on one player if they always win, but there are better ways to do it. If you keep house ruling lots of specific things you can end up with a mess. A much more elegant solution would be to impose a points, or power level, handicap on the player who keeps winning. If you get 1250pts vs. your opponents 1500pts, then you can play the rules as they are written, which is much simpler for everyone. If you still always win you can adjust the handicap.

Doctoralex wrote:
Sorry if this is a repost, but has this been noticed yet?

Someone asked about it on the Warhammer TV facebook, they responded with a simple reply:



It speaks volumes about the state of the Faction when even the smallest statement about them sparks such a response from the players.

Had a good doubles game at 2k points with 1ksons and my necrons vs admech, blood angels, and assassins.

For once in my life, everything pulled its weight. The destroyers ran shop, immortals killed troops efficiently, and doomsday ark squared off against dunecrawlers, and lived through QS.

Solid showing for the faction in the ITC format. Snagged center-board, and stuck there.

 Draco765 wrote:

Doctoralex wrote:
Sorry if this is a repost, but has this been noticed yet?

Someone asked about it on the Warhammer TV facebook, they responded with a simple reply:

Spoiler:

It speaks volumes about the state of the Faction when even the smallest statement about them sparks such a response from the players.

I suspect that the warhammer TV facebook person may be misinformed. Advertising it as an Index implies at least some rule changes.

 Draco765 wrote:

Doctoralex wrote:
Sorry if this is a repost, but has this been noticed yet?

Someone asked about it on the Warhammer TV facebook, they responded with a simple reply:

Spoiler:

It speaks volumes about the state of the Faction when even the smallest statement about them sparks such a response from the players.

 Werekill wrote:

 Draco765 wrote:

Doctoralex wrote:
Sorry if this is a repost, but has this been noticed yet?

Someone asked about it on the Warhammer TV facebook, they responded with a simple reply:

Spoiler:

It speaks volumes about the state of the Faction when even the smallest statement about them sparks such a response from the players.

I suspect that the warhammer TV facebook person may be misinformed. Advertising it as an Index implies at least some rule changes.

Well, just a couple of weeks ago it was Index: Astartes Ultramarine and all they did was talk about them, no new/fixed rules, no new models etc.

Yeah I suspect the social media team are not misinformed and this is literally nothing but a badly named segment on their show.

Ugh, that's super frustrating to hear.