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 Crimson wrote:
That preview seems to confirm what I feared: that you just have the options available to the squads in 40K. No fun things like Infiltrators with arquebuses allowed. Boring.

No model. No rule.

You shouldn't be surprised.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Crimson wrote:
That preview seems to confirm what I feared: that you just have the options available to the squads in 40K. No fun things like Infiltrators with arquebuses allowed. Boring.

No model. No rule.

You shouldn't be surprised.

I hoped that even kitbashing would have been allowed. They specifically limited the faction choices to those with a lot of multipart plastic kits.

It's modern GW. Kitbashing? What's that?

 Crimson wrote:

 Apple Peel wrote:

Then what is the bloody point of colored plastic?

There is no point.

As already stated, they allow you to differentiate between the two sides, and are good for beginners.

Letting any unit take any wargear it wants could have a lot of unintended consequences for a game that GW intends to have a competitive circuit for.

 Sqorgar wrote:

 Yodhrin wrote:
Aye, not my bag at all. Limited units, limited options, "catch 'em all" rules collecting, ech. Ah well, back to hoping for a new Inquisimunda.

"catch 'em all" rules collecting? Do you have a similar opinion about Necromunda and Blood Bowl's use of tactics cards? What about Magic the Gathering? Is that a cynical exercise in forcing consumers to pay extra to have all the rules?

Uh, yeah. It is.

 Arachnofiend wrote:
Letting any unit take any wargear it wants could have a lot of unintended consequences for a game that GW intends to have a competitive circuit for.

Yeah, it might unintentionally allow creativity and fun...

 Crimson wrote:

 Arachnofiend wrote:
Letting any unit take any wargear it wants could have a lot of unintended consequences for a game that GW intends to have a competitive circuit for.

Yeah, it might unintentionally allow creativity and fun...

So early detractors are either cheap completionists and people too creative to house rule stuff.

 Crimson wrote:

 Arachnofiend wrote:
Letting any unit take any wargear it wants could have a lot of unintended consequences for a game that GW intends to have a competitive circuit for.

Yeah, it might unintentionally allow creativity and fun...

What combinations would actually give you a better unit/statline? All the combos I could think of would at best lead to a side-grade option, with most being strictly worse.

 Sinful Hero wrote:

 Crimson wrote:

 Arachnofiend wrote:
Letting any unit take any wargear it wants could have a lot of unintended consequences for a game that GW intends to have a competitive circuit for.

Yeah, it might unintentionally allow creativity and fun...

What combinations would actually give you a better unit/statline? All the combos I could think of would at best lead to a side-grade option, with most being strictly worse.

Yeah, I just want to be able to make bunch of funky conversions and be able to use them in the game without having to create a ruleset by myself (and convince other people to use that ruleset.) Inquisimunda stuff is really popular and featured in WD regularly. I really don't understand why the official rules cannot support such approach. It is not that hard: have a list of profiles to choose from and a list of gear to equip them with.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

JSG wrote:

So early detractors are either cheap completionists and people too creative to house rule stuff.

Making house rules is easy, convincing your gaming community to use them less so.

I don't know. Maybe I'm lucky and my group of 15-20 people is very open to house rules (We greatly house rule AoS even for tournaments), but Necromunda, Killteam, etc... are the kind of games that if you want to play as a narrative game, are made to be house ruled.

I had 0 problems when I wrote Stormcast rules to use in our Mordheim campaing in AoS.

I just hope someone, GW or the fan community whips up rules for some of the Forgeworld stuff. I'd love to be able to use my Thallax or my Ursarax. It doesn't need to be tournament legal even. Just give me the ability to actually use them.

 Albino Squirrel wrote:

 Sqorgar wrote:

 Yodhrin wrote:
Aye, not my bag at all. Limited units, limited options, "catch 'em all" rules collecting, ech. Ah well, back to hoping for a new Inquisimunda.

"catch 'em all" rules collecting? Do you have a similar opinion about Necromunda and Blood Bowl's use of tactics cards? What about Magic the Gathering? Is that a cynical exercise in forcing consumers to pay extra to have all the rules?

Uh, yeah. It is.

Magic was a bad example, since it is the most cynical exercise in forcing consumers to pay extra in gaming - but not to have all the rules. The cards (and thus rules) are not intended to be universally available to every player, so it is kind of silly to complain that they do what they are intended to do.

Complaining that tactics cards are not universally available to every player (for free) is kind of like complaining that you can't field space marines without buying their models. This is a lifestyle game and GW is looking for ways to add value and variety over the course of the game's (presumably long) lifespan, keeping it fresh and interesting and driving new purchases and excitement. Tactics cards, by themselves, contribute a bit but not a lot, which is why GW is trying to bundle them with a bunch of other content which also contributes a bit but not a lot, to create an attractive package with a value greater than the sum of its parts. The cards are not the selling point, or even worth hunting down to collect - but people feel entitled to the cards and so things start getting a little whiny.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Crimson wrote:
That preview seems to confirm what I feared: that you just have the options available to the squads in 40K. No fun things like Infiltrators with arquebuses allowed. Boring.

No model. No rule.

You shouldn't be surprised.

First picture in Community's post show a guy with arquebus, so I would say it will be possible. We will know soon.

People just want the rules so they can play. Not wanting to buy multiple products to get all the upgrade cards or tactics cards or gang cards or whatever they call them isn't being whiny. Especially in this age of apps and free pdf warscrolls where bundling rules with additional purchases is a super inefficient way of doing things.

So many X-Wing players have gotten burnt out by the upgrade card treadmill that even Fantasy Flight is no longer doing cross-faction purchasing to get all the rules for 2nd edition X-Wing.

I just hope this game gives me a reason to dust off my Grey Knight's and give them another go. I am really upset we have no rules for sisters (of battle or silence), Inquisition, or assassins. A harlequin kill team does sound really fun though.

The more I look at the starter contents including terrain, the more I think this might be a pretty straightforward attempt to get the needed return on capital on the new terrain like what shadow war was for sector mechanicus terrain. It worked then, so this is the same sort of product model extended out into a multi-product range.

"Have some burna boys and a crane you likely could have never been convinced to buy together if it wasn't for these cardboard counters and some cards we bundled it with! Don't worry, we'll also sell you some Primaris marines bundled with some pipes or something later on too!"

And then the mechanicus faction focus having 4 units out of 2 kits. If that holds than this game is really going to be limited in its possibilities. Which I guess is what you want if the real goal is to fund the development of new terrain for 40k. If Orks end up with only 4 units (burna, lootas as they share the same kit and 2 others?) then i think it'll be a pretty clear sign that it's not worth the development time needed to make the stats and possible upgrade paths for all the other possible ork options if 4 will do. The return on investment for anything other than narrow subsets of each range just isn't there if the real goal is to sell sector mechanicus add on terrain like the crane and to fund the new terrain.

I was largely excited for a game like this, but when I saw the crane bundled with the orks and then only 4 units of the mechanicus covered in their faction focus, I became more suspicious of this as a cash grab to fund new 40k terrain.

The more I read/see about this Kill Team game, the more it seems to have very little to do with the Rogue Trader stuff that was leaked a couple of months back. Other than sharing maybe mechanics/rules, it is very unlikely that Rogue Trader is an 'expansion' for Kill Team.

The board, doors, objectives, and computer consoles...the fact that there are a bunch more baddies than a '10-man' kill team would need...are all factors that point to Rogue Trader being a standalone (with perhaps it's own future expansions) board game, not unlike the 2D Necromunda 2017 game crossed with Space Hulk. Linked missions on board a Rogue Trader ship (there's an escape pod there in the background as well).

Where was the evidence that RT was part of this Kill Team product line, which subsequently drove the Mods to combine the rumor threads for both?

As far as the Kill Team product line...the fact that the Shadespire rules team had their hands on it, and the comments about it being a tight rules set, made for competitive, organized play, are good indicators that there will be very limited choices in units/loadouts, and lots of (useful) universal cards packed with each of the faction specific AND Location specific products (gotta catch 'em all, etc). The more model/list customization that is allowed, the more room for imbalance....so those that are hoping for an Inquisimunda/RPG-like free-for-all are gonna be disappointed, I think. Of course, these are just educated guesses that could be wrong...the clues are pointing this way.

I am curious if light vehicles like dreadnoughts or sentinels will make an appearance. I’d love to have a squad of purifiers backed up by a dread!

I am generally very critical of GW but I fail to understand some of the criticism here.
If the game is supposed to be played on a small scale, it's quite obvious that, at least on its initial implementation, the rules will focus on iconic infantry units for each faction.
There is no need to require very different units that need balancing, as long as the team can be heterogeneous enough in equipment and yet still composed of models of comparable size and power.
Why ask for vehicles? Is counter-intuitive for the purpose of such game.

 Fango wrote:
so those that are hoping for an Inquisimunda/RPG-like free-for-all are gonna be disappointed, I think. Of course, these are just educated guesses that could be wrong...the clues are pointing this way.

I think you're right. Probably my favorite thing about 40k is the open nature of it. And Inquisimunda type gaming is definitely something I'd want out of a 40k skrimish game. This looks like it'll be the opposite. As you pointed out, the rules are described as being by the shadespire people and called "tight." So I think it'll be vary focused on a tiny subset of each factions, leaving most of the possibilities unexplored.

 Fango wrote:


Where was the evidence that RT was part of this Kill Team product line, which subsequently drove the Mods to combine the rumor threads for both?

and

SO, GO ON THEN. WHAT’S KILL TEAM: ROGUE TRADER?
Wouldn’t you like to know! If we had to hazard a guess, we’d say it was some kind of expansion
to Kill Team that looked at Rogue Traders. If we tell you anything more, the Inquisition will have
to start executing writers, which tends to lead to delays.
Far be it from us to suggest that Kill Team: Rogue Trader is just one example of how this new
game allows us to explore heretofore unrealised corners of the the 41st Millennium, not to
mention the new factions and models available after launch..

https://whc-cdn.games-workshop.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/07/KIll_Team_QA.pdf



Guys, this is only the begining... the core rules.. Im sure that we will see a lot of extras.

 Fango wrote:
The more I read/see about this Kill Team game, the more it seems to have very little to do with the Rogue Trader stuff that was leaked a couple of months back. Other than sharing maybe mechanics/rules, it is very unlikely that Rogue Trader is an 'expansion' for Kill Team.

From the Kill Team Q&A:

SO, GO ON THEN. WHAT’S KILL TEAM: ROGUE TRADER?

Wouldn’t you like to know! If we had to hazard a guess, we’d say it was some kind of expansion to Kill Team that looked at Rogue Traders. If we tell you anything more, the Inquisition will have to start executing writers, which tends to lead to delays.

Far be it from us to suggest that Kill Team: Rogue Trader is just one example of how this new game allows us to explore heretofore unrealised corners of the the 41st Millennium, not to mention the new factions and models available after launch...

 Fango wrote:
The more I read/see about this Kill Team game, the more it seems to have very little to do with the Rogue Trader stuff that was leaked a couple of months back. Other than sharing maybe mechanics/rules, it is very unlikely that Rogue Trader is an 'expansion' for Kill Team.

The board, doors, objectives, and computer consoles...the fact that there are a bunch more baddies than a '10-man' kill team would need...are all factors that point to Rogue Trader being a standalone (with perhaps it's own future expansions) board game, not unlike the 2D Necromunda 2017 game crossed with Space Hulk. Linked missions on board a Rogue Trader ship (there's an escape pod there in the background as well).

Where was the evidence that RT was part of this Kill Team product line, which subsequently drove the Mods to combine the rumor threads for both?

As far as the Kill Team product line...the fact that the Shadespire rules team had their hands on it, and the comments about it being a tight rules set, made for competitive, organized play, are good indicators that there will be very limited choices in units/loadouts, and lots of (useful) universal cards packed with each of the faction specific AND Location specific products (gotta catch 'em all, etc). The more model/list customization that is allowed, the more room for imbalance....so those that are hoping for an Inquisimunda/RPG-like free-for-all are gonna be disappointed, I think. Of course, these are just educated guesses that could be wrong...the clues are pointing this way.

If you read the Q&A pdf they posted in their article it specifically calls out that Rogue Trader is an expansion for Kill Team.

Relevant text

SO, GO ON THEN. WHAT’S KILL TEAM: ROGUE TRADER?
Wouldn’t you like to know! If we had to hazard a guess, we’d say it was some kind of expansion
to Kill Team that looked at Rogue Traders. If we tell you anything more, the Inquisition will have
to start executing writers, which tends to lead to delays.
Far be it from us to suggest that Kill Team: Rogue Trader is just one example of how this new
game allows us to explore heretofore unrealised corners of the the 41st Millennium, not to
mention the new factions and models available after launch...

Ninjaed, they beat me to it

Ok, so that's pretty damnable evidence...having Kill Team branding all over the Rogue Trader book. I missed these when they were initially leaked.

Still, it doesn't seem to fit as a location expansion for this launch...specifically, the 22"x30" boards with 3D terrain...

I think Rogue Trader is gonna be a box game, much like Necromunda 2017 (including price point - Ok, MAYBE closer to $125 US), using the Kill Team skirmish rules, and probably have rules included (Or printed in White Dwarf!) to use the Rogue Trader and crew as a Kill Team in the other 3D skirmish games.

 Kaiyanwang wrote:
I am generally very critical of GW but I fail to understand some of the criticism here.
If the game is supposed to be played on a small scale, it's quite obvious that, at least on its initial implementation, the rules will focus on iconic infantry units for each faction.
There is no need to require very different units that need balancing, as long as the team can be heterogeneous enough in equipment and yet still composed of models of comparable size and power.
Why ask for vehicles? Is counter-intuitive for the purpose of such game.

Exactly.

When looking at this in the context of recent GW activity, I reckon they want to get the ruleset out in the wild with the core game being straight forward. Then once they get feedback flowing in, they can use that to craft the more complicated, interesting additions, and release more adventurous stuff.

The Rogue Trader expansion looks to be following this, and even has enough time to include changes based on feedback.

I am sure we will see Inquisition and Sisters of Battle as soon as they get plastic releases (so next year for Sisters), and new units will be added to the game as they feel more confident with the ruleset.

This is basically a safe release to get the ball rolling. It is still pretty massive by itself.

 Zarroc1733 wrote:
I just hope this game gives me a reason to dust off my Grey Knight's and give them another go. I am really upset we have no rules for sisters (of battle or silence), Inquisition, or assassins. A harlequin kill team does sound really fun though.

Kill Team rules for Sisters of Battle will certainly come along with their plastic models in 2019. I would not be surprised if an Inquisition kill team is next in line for an expansion pack after Rogue Trader. An Inquisition vs. Lost and the Damned box would be pretty cool.

 Fango wrote:
Ok, so that's pretty damnable evidence...having Kill Team branding all over the Rogue Trader book. I missed these when they were initially leaked.

Still, it doesn't seem to fit as a location expansion for this launch...specifically, the 22"x30" boards with 3D terrain...

I think Rogue Trader is gonna be a box game, much like Necromunda 2017 (including price point - Ok, MAYBE closer to $125 US), using the Kill Team skirmish rules, and probably have rules included (Or printed in White Dwarf!) to use the Rogue Trader and crew as a Kill Team in the other 3D skirmish games.

It will be a different "killzone". Killzone: Zones Mortalis or something. We already have the Imperialis one and Killzone: Sector Mechanicus announced, and spacecraft interiors (Zones Mortalis) and death world jungles have been mentioned. I fully expect there to be an Eldar box with some of the Death world jungle terrain in the near future.

 Fango wrote:


Still, it doesn't seem to fit as a location expansion for this launch...

The Community article specifically gives the interior of a starship as an example of a killzone.

I'm actually hoping they throw in Adeptus Arbites at some point. So many little factions in 40k that are ideal to flex their muscle on a smaller scale, they'd be insane not to work it in.

Looking the next month WD



I think we wil se more rules, or packs to use battlezones