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Isn't the best case for Inqusition that they don't make the base game, such that they're added in the future?

Being added post-release means a real good chance they get actual models - even if it's just one kit that does just henchmen.

And then, if they have more henchmen, an Agents book makes even *more* sense.

I have a similar feel about Sisters. Wouldn't it be cool if they did a Sisters KT as an expansion before the 40k codex and plastic range came out? Something to cut your teeth on, and a easing into the plastic range to help GW logistics?

Not saying either will happen, but there is potential for a lot of good. But then, there was a ton of potential for the 7e CWE book, and we all know what happened with that.

If everything was included how could they sell you expansions? Think, people... ;-)

The Infinity scenery packs are like $10 or so and have a good bit of card terrain and 24"x34" poster mats for folks looking to get stuff on the cheap. The 2 newest sets (Neon Lotus and Kurage Station) come with walkways as well as building/containers. If memory serves (I'm not at home to check) the walkways are wide enough for 40mm round bases.

I have like 4 sets from starters and con swag and they're actually really good. Well worth it IMO. Plus you can get a good feel for the size of Kill Team.

 Dr_Keenbean wrote:
The Infinity scenery packs are like $10 or so and have a good bit of card terrain and 24"x34" poster mats for folks looking to get stuff on the cheap. The 2 newest sets (Neon Lotus and Kurage Station) come with walkways as well as building/containers. If memory serves (I'm not at home to check) the walkways are wide enough for 40mm round bases.

I have like 4 sets from starters and con swag and they're actually really good. Well worth it IMO. Plus you can get a good feel for the size of Kill Team.

Worth mentioning that these products work because Infinity has a 'secondary' cardboard box inside of the boxes that the scenery kits take advantage of for structural support.

Without that, they're just pretty scenery but can't hold diddly.

As for loud stuff - ASM jumppacks, flamers, meltas, etc.

It's like the Boltgun. If you're shooting, it's not stealthy anymore.

You get into position. You then execute. You don't fire the jumppacks or Boltguns or other noisy things until you're ready for the enemy to know you're there. So you pull the trigger/ignite the pack/etc when things get loud - as in, top of turn 1 of the game, most likely.

The best covert ops would involve the enemy never knowing you're there. Or at least, not right away. No noise. No alarm given. You get in and get out. Those aren't the missions we'll be playing. You don't commit to ops with a 50/50 chance of winning: you do ops you've carefully set up with 99% chance of success. We're only playing those ops we commit to, then things go sideways to the point of being 50/50.

Much like, in 40k, the average battle is Marines destroying some independent power or traitors or whatever. They pop in and route the enemy. Or IG just show up and devestate, with their superior logistics, equipment and training (fluffwise, IG are very well armed/trained/equipped compared to most forces). Or Craftworlders... never even take the field. Or naval assets destroy the target from orbit. Or artillery destroy the target beyond visual range. We don't play those engagements. Most are more like 100k points vs 1k points. No point in playing it.

Similarly, ASM make sense in a killteam. They would hoof it into position, then when things get hot, rocket themselves into where they need to be. (edit - Pull up the DoW2 intro again. Great short video of a pair of killteams.)

I think the lack of ASM is more the "no packs or bikes" choice the design team made. I'd rather they were added as super costly choices that weren't talked up, so they could be taken, but couldn't break the game, but that has it's downsides too.

Also, I hope either they or some great community (HoR) extends the rules to more models.

Imagine a game against IG who are escorting a Chimera with a VIP: IG needs to protect the Chimera long enough for the VIP to get away. Attackers need to pop it.

Imagine needing to clear out an IG artillery battery. It fires every turn (always aimed off-map). The attackers get VP for each gun silenced. The defenders get VP for each gun fired. Completely possible for a suicidal assautl upon the guns to wipe out your kill team and still win!

Or just an old fasion monster hunt. Need to take down that Hive Tirant! Basically, with a "DM" playing the "NPC" monster, and the KT (or even 2, with different players, for some scary monsters!) aiming to bring it down!

As with the CWE thread in general, I'm wishlisting. But I'm enjoying wishlisting.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Dr_Keenbean wrote:
The Infinity scenery packs are like $10 or so and have a good bit of card terrain and 24"x34" poster mats for folks looking to get stuff on the cheap. The 2 newest sets (Neon Lotus and Kurage Station) come with walkways as well as building/containers. If memory serves (I'm not at home to check) the walkways are wide enough for 40mm round bases.

I have like 4 sets from starters and con swag and they're actually really good. Well worth it IMO. Plus you can get a good feel for the size of Kill Team.

Worth mentioning that these products work because Infinity has a 'secondary' cardboard box inside of the boxes that the scenery kits take advantage of for structural support.

Without that, they're just pretty scenery but can't hold diddly.

I can have multiple larger metal models (heavy infantry, TAGS) on those rooftops without the boxes. They have tabs on the inside that hold things in place. The newer buildings even have fold-in tabs on all 4 corners that add even more stability because they are taller than the cardboard. You do not need the boxes for them to be stable enough to game with. They're nice, but not required.

Maybe don't stand a metal dread on top of them but otherwise you're perfectly fine.

 Dr_Keenbean wrote:

I can have multiple larger metal models (heavy infantry, TAGS) on those rooftops without the boxes. They have tabs on the inside that hold things in place. The newer buildings even have fold-in tabs on all 4 corners that add even more stability because they are taller than the cardboard. You do not need the boxes for them to be stable enough to game with. They're nice, but not required.

Maybe don't stand a metal dread on top of them but otherwise you're perfectly fine.

Gonna have to agree to disagree on this one. Even properly assembled, I couldn't get them to hold up a fireteam of Grunts or Marauders.


With all that out of the way...I'm starting to come around on Kill Team after seeing pricing. $60 for a starter seemed a bit wacky at first, but given that there's scenery in the box it's not as bad as I thought.

 Mr Morden wrote:
You might have noticed I was also asking why options shown on Guard models were not part of the game, why resin inflitarators like Mandrakes were not included but Scouts and Lictors are fine

Who knows? So GW can sell expansion books? Maybe they are and we don't know?

But then you started complaining about Sisters, which brings us to...

 Mr Morden wrote:
but hey its easier to insult rather than discuss - well done.

Nah son, I can do both. Multitasking!

 Mr Morden wrote:
On Sisterrs specfically - we don't know when they are coming and they are "Supposed" to be sorting out "something" for Chapter Approved - well if they can be bothered and its not replaced by something to do with Marines.

As has been said, Sisters are being completely redone, from the ground up, so they're not about to put a whole set of rules for something that's going to be replaced pretty quickly, not in the core book for a new game line that they're clearly investing heaps into. The last thing you want to do is sell a core book that comes with a "Oh, but pages 225-232 won't be legal in 6 months, just FYI". That's the opposite of future proofing.

 Mr Morden wrote:
Are you really suggesting that these rules will not need huge FAQs and updates anyway over the course of a year - have you ever played a GW game?

Which has all of nothing do to with what I said above. Mistakes/errata/ambiguities are different from the complete redesign of a major faction.

 Mr Morden wrote:
Inquistiors are THE unit that would have been perfect for this sort of game but guess what.

Inquistion is a half-realised concept with a model line missing a bunch of what was originally released, and none of it in plastic. Of course they're not involved.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Dr_Keenbean wrote:

I can have multiple larger metal models (heavy infantry, TAGS) on those rooftops without the boxes. They have tabs on the inside that hold things in place. The newer buildings even have fold-in tabs on all 4 corners that add even more stability because they are taller than the cardboard. You do not need the boxes for them to be stable enough to game with. They're nice, but not required.

Maybe don't stand a metal dread on top of them but otherwise you're perfectly fine.

Gonna have to agree to disagree on this one. Even properly assembled, I couldn't get them to hold up a fireteam of Grunts or Marauders.


With all that out of the way...I'm starting to come around on Kill Team after seeing pricing. $60 for a starter seemed a bit wacky at first, but given that there's scenery in the box it's not as bad as I thought.

Fair enough. YMMV, as with anything!

I can't decide how I feel about the inclusion of scenery in the warband packs. On one hand it feels like padding to up the price but give fewer minis. On the other hand Kill Team is going to be very scenery-reliant and this is a good way to get more scenery into people's collections.

Kill Team Focus: Deathwatch on Warhammer Community.

 Dr_Keenbean wrote:

I can't decide how I feel about the inclusion of scenery in the warband packs. On one hand it feels like padding to up the price but give fewer minis. On the other hand Kill Team is going to be very scenery-reliant and this is a good way to get more scenery into people's collections.

I think it's going to be very reliant upon what scenery they do or don't include.

The Ork set gives you $40 of scenery, a $25 kit, a little booklet detailing that specific premade kill team and its lore, a set of tokens specifically for that faction, that faction's tactic cards(including 6 specific to that premade Kill Team I'm betting) for $60+tax.
On the flipside, the Marine one gives you a $50 scenery kit, $35 kit, booklet, etc for $60+tax.

The Marine one gives you a better deal, monetarily, but the terrain is just a couple of poles essentially while the Ork one gives you those cranes.
And for those who don't really care about the "starter" sets but instead want just a scenery bundle...the Sector Mechanicus set is $85 for an Alchomite Stacks($50), Promethium Forge($75), and a set of Thermic Plasma Conduits($35).

I might be wrong on the Promethium Forge and it might be one of the other scenery bundles(which had built-in savings to begin with!) but that's $160 in scenery alone--plus the mat and rules for it.

Bharring wrote:
I have a similar feel about Sisters. Wouldn't it be cool if they did a Sisters KT as an expansion before the 40k codex and plastic range came out? Something to cut your teeth on, and a easing into the plastic range to help GW logistics?

It would be great if it happened but they didn't say anything about it happening and given their track record regarding sisters...

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

Bharring wrote:
I have a similar feel about Sisters. Wouldn't it be cool if they did a Sisters KT as an expansion before the 40k codex and plastic range came out? Something to cut your teeth on, and a easing into the plastic range to help GW logistics?

It would be great if it happened but they didn't say anything about it happening and given their track record regarding sisters...

I don't want to rouse any hopes but they did hint that with the Chapter Approved Codex they might drop a few things for Sisters.

I could see a plastic HQ and Sisters themselves being done this way.

I haven't played (or even seen) all of the factions in the game, but it occurred to me that the choice of what units GW included might not be solely based on what's 'appropriate'. My reasoning on this is that you also have to look at what possible loadouts are available in those choices.

Taking the orks and the Guard for example:
Orks get 4 troop choices but each choice only has one maybe two loadouts available. Boyz are described as being close combat specialists, so probably no Shootas, but they may get the power klaw. Burnas, Lootas, Gretchin, and Kommandos only have a single loadout each, maybe the Mega Blasta for the Mek.

Guard have multiple loadouts including flamers, grenade launchers, chainswords and pistol, las rifle. It was also recommended in the article to get the Command Squad which adds Sniper rifles, plasma, meltas, and heavy flamers.

Anything you want, as long as it's not Lasguns on Sergeants.

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
It would be great if it happened but they didn't say anything about it happening and given their track record regarding sisters...

God forbid any of you have any hope for once.

But it would be pretty cool if they did release Sisters and their included terrain was something that allowed them to build a ruined chapel of sorts (some combination of the new terrain should do that), and a scenario for defending said shrine, or taking it back, etc.

That would be a cool way of releasing them.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
God forbid any of you have any hope for once.

I had hope before. It's why I don't have hope now.

 Ghaz wrote:
Kill Team Focus: Deathwatch on Warhammer Community.

I love that first one: now I have make a Space Wolf and a Dark Angel, bickering all the way trough the game...

How are Tactic cards going to work if you only buy the rule book??
They are not available for purchase separate from the main box set.

 Genoside07 wrote:
How are Tactic cards going to work if you only buy the rule book??
They are not available for purchase separate from the main box set.

I'd say the cards are only for convenience, and you're fine using the tactics directly from the book without playing any cards. I don't expect we'll need to draw from closed decks of cards or anything like that...

 Insane Ivan wrote:

 Genoside07 wrote:
How are Tactic cards going to work if you only buy the rule book??
They are not available for purchase separate from the main box set.

I'd say the cards are only for convenience, and you're fine using the tactics directly from the book without playing any cards. I don't expect we'll need to draw from closed decks of cards or anything like that...

This is the impression that I get as well. It also seems like the "6 tactic cards exclusive to this set" for the Kill Team starters are going to be themed to that specific set and the premade Kill Team within.

From the stream: Kill Teams are 100 pts

Your roster can have loads of models, you can swap between games / bring in replacements for slain models.

ALSO, THIS IS NOT THE SISTERS OF BATTLE THREAD, CEASE.

Peachy's Kill Team

 BrookM wrote:
Peachy's Kill Team

12 models, so we can go over 10, then. Good news for Guard and Gretchin.

And his open play team, which allows you to pick from any army. This example is a Dark Eldar slave party:

That team looks cool.
[edit] Was talking of Peachy's Kill Team

And that should tide over anyone wantimg Inquisition until they get a proper team, I’d say?

Ooh! Shame that mixing and matching is only for open, but it sounds awesome!

Duncan's working on a House Griffith retinue and from the box Scions, but with some cool conversions planned.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Max models in a game per side are 20 according to Peachy.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
With a bit of squeezing you can fit 19 Nids into 100 pts somehow.

 BrookM wrote:
Duncan's working on a House Griffith retinue and from the box Scions, but with some cool conversions planned.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Max models in a game per side are 20 according to Peachy.

Cool, that allows for a lot of difference in power levels between models!

At 100 point, I’m imagining that many weapon options will either be free swaps or otherwise have a lot of similarity in points-per-upgrade. And probably be limited to a certain number of models.

Some nice conversions in the slave party, especially the Sister and the dual sword Catachan.

 Crimson wrote:
Ooh! Shame that mixing and matching is only for open, but it sounds awesome!

Would have been better to have it in narrative play. "Have fun with options" is kind of redundant in the "do whatever you want" game mode.