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But this is a team being sent on a special mission - not necessarily an elite force.

So you're sending in a demoman to blow up that fuel dump, a tech with machine spirit expertise to get some vital data, a medic to patch up a wounded pilot, and their escort. It's The Dirty Dozen, a rag-tag assortment of people with special skills.

Of course you're going to get Guardians. One of your KT might be a bonesinger, hoping to repair a damaged wraithgate, for example. Eldar will have diverse skills from the paths they've walked, and someone on the Warrior path may either not have it, or just plain be too deep into the warrior path to use it at the moment. A Guardian by virtue of being a civilian should have more flexibility to use these alternative skills.

Exactly, its saving private Ryan - random squad gets tasked with doing something.

The extra detail shows that instead of being 10 random copy paste guys they all actually have different skills and abilities.

 Graphite wrote:
But this is a team being sent on a special mission - not necessarily an elite force.

So you're sending in a demoman to blow up that fuel dump, a tech with machine spirit expertise to get some vital data, a medic to patch up a wounded pilot, and their escort. It's The Dirty Dozen, a rag-tag assortment of people with special skills.

Of course you're going to get Guardians. One of your KT might be a bonesinger, hoping to repair a damaged wraithgate, for example. Eldar will have diverse skills from the paths they've walked, and someone on the Warrior path may either not have it, or just plain be too deep into the warrior path to use it at the moment. A Guardian by virtue of being a civilian should have more flexibility to use these alternative skills.

Hmm Gw says different on the Community site:

The game’s focus is on covert operations – players hand-pick their kill teams of die-hard special operatives to get a specific job done, whether that be reconnaissance, sabotage or assassination

Your kill team is a

squad of elite warriors

,

Not my words GWs

Basic Astra Militarum troopers are elite warriors - they're the top 10% of any given world's military forces.

 AndrewGPaul wrote:
Basic Astra Militarum troopers are elite warriors - they're the top 10% of any given world's military forces.

And the Kill-Team being made up of actual Guardsmen rather than, say, Conscripts makes a big difference too...

This is an issue that exists within the Guard Codex. Not much differentiates a Guardsman from a Veteran Guardsman, and then a Veteran Guardsman from a Scion. It mostly comes down to squad options--Vets can take more Specials than a normal Guard Squad and Scions have unique guns and a better save.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 AndrewGPaul wrote:
Basic Astra Militarum troopers are elite warriors - they're the top 10% of any given world's military forces.

And the Kill-Team being made up of actual Guardsmen rather than, say, Conscripts makes a big difference too...

This is an issue that exists within the Guard Codex. Not much differentiates a Guardsman from a Veteran Guardsman, and then a Veteran Guardsman from a Scion. It mostly comes down to squad options--Vets can take more Specials than a normal Guard Squad and Scions have unique guns and a better save.

Which makes it even more annoying that they didn't include Guard Veterans - the ability to tailor a "elite" team of "Specialists" with varied equipment would have been very much in the supposed flavour of the game.

But then they also might have been bothered to include things like Camo cloaks, carapace armour etc

Of course you're going to get Guardians. One of your KT might be a bonesinger, hoping to repair a damaged wraithgate, for example. Eldar will have diverse skills from the paths they've walked, and someone on the Warrior path may either not have it, or just plain be too deep into the warrior path to use it at the moment. A Guardian by virtue of being a civilian should have more flexibility to use these alternative skills.

I quite like this argument - however equally it makes zero sense not to include the actual Eldar Warriors that are highly skilled specialists.......

 AndrewGPaul wrote:
Basic Astra Militarum troopers are elite warriors - they're the top 10% of any given world's military forces.

Mine have a funny way of showing it...

 Mr Morden wrote:

Which makes it even more annoying that they didn't include Guard Veterans - the ability to tailor a "elite" team of "Specialists" with varied equipment would have been very much in the supposed flavour of the game.

There are guard veterans, they're just represented differently in this game. They're your specialists (or the regular dudes after getting a lot of XP.) Veteran is just an experienced guardsman, in a game where there is a system for representing experience with skills and bonuses there is no reason for them to be different profiles.

 Crimson wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:

Which makes it even more annoying that they didn't include Guard Veterans - the ability to tailor a "elite" team of "Specialists" with varied equipment would have been very much in the supposed flavour of the game.

There are guard veterans, they're just represented differently in this game. They're your specialists (or the regular dudes after getting a lot of XP.) Veteran is just an experienced guardsman, in a game where there is a system for representing experience with skills and bonuses there is no reason for them to be different profiles.

Unfortunately You cannot take veterans in matched play supposedly. Troops are restricted to level 1...
So no, veterans are not represented in Kill Team. At least in matched play

Level 1 is still representing veteran soldiers.

Blame it all on the damn d6!!!

Gnollu wrote:

 Crimson wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:

Which makes it even more annoying that they didn't include Guard Veterans - the ability to tailor a "elite" team of "Specialists" with varied equipment would have been very much in the supposed flavour of the game.

There are guard veterans, they're just represented differently in this game. They're your specialists (or the regular dudes after getting a lot of XP.) Veteran is just an experienced guardsman, in a game where there is a system for representing experience with skills and bonuses there is no reason for them to be different profiles.

Unfortunately You cannot take veterans in matched play supposedly. Troops are restricted to level 1...
So no, veterans are not represented in Kill Team. At least in matched play

So, because something isn't represented in one, restricted, game mode, that means it's not represented at all.

 AndrewGPaul wrote:

So, because something isn't represented in one, restricted, game mode, that means it's not represented at all.

Maybe I'm just bitter because of fact I cannot run few level 4 badass Scions in matched play

On the other hand leveling through campaign... I was one of the guys reloading XCOM game multiple times just to save favorite character .
I think it can actually add another layer of game to Kill Team, grooming one favorite character to become True Hero

 AndrewGPaul wrote:

Gnollu wrote:

 Crimson wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:

Which makes it even more annoying that they didn't include Guard Veterans - the ability to tailor a "elite" team of "Specialists" with varied equipment would have been very much in the supposed flavour of the game.

There are guard veterans, they're just represented differently in this game. They're your specialists (or the regular dudes after getting a lot of XP.) Veteran is just an experienced guardsman, in a game where there is a system for representing experience with skills and bonuses there is no reason for them to be different profiles.

Unfortunately You cannot take veterans in matched play supposedly. Troops are restricted to level 1...
So no, veterans are not represented in Kill Team. At least in matched play

So, because something isn't represented in one, restricted, game mode, that means it's not represented at all.

Arguably the most relevant game mode as its the one most people will play?

Its so sad there are so many possibilities and opportunities for mainstream play ruled out by this rule set :(

Well, if you insist on limiting yourself, that's not a flaw in the game, it's a flaw in your group.

Why is running a campaign not "mainstream"? I mean, the success of Shadow War: Armageddon proved it's popular, did it not?

 AndrewGPaul wrote:
Well, if you insist on limiting yourself, that's not a flaw in the game, it's a flaw in your group.

Why is running a campaign not "mainstream"? I mean, the success of Shadow War: Armageddon proved it's popular, did it not?

Its not my limitation its GWs - now granted we can probably sort out something occasionally but rather than saying - hey everyone turn up with a Kill team and get on with it we would either have to go into huge detail about the house rules or simply plain the ultra-bland vanilla version.

Admittedly the game's not out, but from what's been said, I don't see where you'd need to house-rule anything - just pick a Kill Team and play some games.

The Matched Play rules don't allow for advancement because it's the only way to keep teams balanced, but in a campaign that's less of a problem.

Since we've got points for upgrades, I'm having trouble seeing why you couldn't just advance some dudes if you wanted to when playing with your buds (apart from that one sentence). Honestly not upgrading seems most useful for just that first game of the day / campaign, so everybody starts off newbs. Not really one-offs.

And this isn't me being one of them weird open / narrative play people, I'm a strict adherent to matched play or GTFO. This just seems a bit too dumb when we've got all the tools at hand.

- Salvage

Are they points costs, or XP costs?

Narrative play seems to be gw's focus with this book. I think GW sees narrative as the default with options for matched and open if people want to play it that way.
I've seen a lot of discussion of the various factions and units that will be in the game. What do people think of the hybrid activation system? It all seems pretty slick to me with movement happening as a group and then shooting and combat alternating and non movers shooting first, while chargers attack first in combat. The scouting phase at the beginning sounds interesting. I wonder why they made it optional.
I, personally am happy that it has strong similarities to 8th. It will make it much easier to learn.
I also like the limited playing space, as I will be able to play it pretty easily in my living room.
So far while I agree that striking scorpions, wracks and a couple of others are odd omissions, with 16 factions now and at least 2 more on the way, I am cautiously optimistic.
That said I am still not sure whether to jump in now or wait for the Rogue trader box.

Gnollu wrote:

Unfortunately You cannot take veterans in matched play supposedly. Troops are restricted to level 1...
So no, veterans are not represented in Kill Team. At least in matched play

Being a specialist is still a reasonable representation of being a veteran.

Though I agree that it is stupid decision to limit the level in matched; there is already point costs for higher levels, so why not just use those?

You would imagine it's because reducing variables makes it easier to balance.

The trade off for balance is limiting options, generally speaking

 AndrewGPaul wrote:
Are they points costs, or XP costs?

Here's the text:



Here's to not playing "normal" matched play games! Whatever those are!

- Salvage

Sorry if this has been covered before but it's been a while since I paid attention to the Kill Team news. I saw a bunch of videos on youtube recently reviewing the game and was wondering if the points values for the various figs have been leaked. I looked through the various WH community previews and didn't see them listed there and wasn't sure if the values would be the same as in the codex books given that the utility of the various models and obviously the rules are different.

Ah, OK, thanks.

It seems that you can have a large "roster" of troops to choose your Kill Team for any given game from; perhaps the higher-level skills are situational to a degree that would be difficult to use in a Matched Play game (where you would be expected, perhaps, to choose your Kill Team before knowing the mission or the opponent)?

 Boss Salvage wrote:

 AndrewGPaul wrote:
Are they points costs, or XP costs?

Here's the text:



Here's to not playing "normal" matched play games! Whatever those are!

- Salvage

Indeed!

This actually makes special scenarios even easier to set up, just give players a reduced point amount to build a single operative with for say, a Halloween event and away we go.

 warboss wrote:
Sorry if this has been covered before but it's been a while since I paid attention to the Kill Team news. I saw a bunch of videos on youtube recently reviewing the game and was wondering if the points values for the various figs have been leaked. I looked through the various WH community previews and didn't see them listed there and wasn't sure if the values would be the same as in the codex books given that the utility of the various models and obviously the rules are different.

I've been able to gather or guess at some teams based on the French unboxing video:

NECRONS
15 Deathmark
10 Flayed One
16 Immortal
12 Warrior

All options free

HARLIES
12 Player

0 Grenades
2 Neuro Disruptor
1 Fusion Pistol
0 Shuriken Pistol

4 Kiss
3 Caress
2 Embrace
0 Blade

CRAFTWORLDERS
10 Dire Avenger
11 *Exarch
7 Guardian Defender
8 *Heavy Weapon Platform
11 Ranger
6 Storm Guardian
7 *Gunner

0 Chainsword
0 Aeldari Blade
2 Diresword
1 Power glaive

2 Shuriken Cannon
3 Starcannon
0 Shuriken Catapult
0 Avenger Shuriken Catapult
3 Fusion Gun
4 Bright Lance
3 Flamer
5 Aeldari Missle Launcher
0 Ranger Long Rifle
0 Shuriken Pistol
0 Plasma Grenade
2 Scatter Laser

4 Mirror Shield

CSM
4 Cultist
5 *Gunner
5 *Champ
12 Chaos Space Marine
13 *Gunner
13 *Champ

5 Icon of Wrath
1 Icon of Flame
3 Icon of Despair
5 Icon of Excess
1 Icon of Vengeance

0 Autogun
0 Autopistol
0 Bolt pistol
0 Boltgun
3 Flamer
0 Frag grenade
3 Heavy bolter
0 Heavy stubber
0 Krak grenade
3 Meltagun
3 Plasma gun
1 Plasma pistol
0 Shotgun

0 Brutal assault weapon
0 Chainsword
4 Power fist
2 Power sword

DEATH GUARD
14 Plague Marine
15 *Gunner
15 *Fighter
15 *Champ
3 Poxwalker

2 Bubotic axe
4 Flail of Corruption
4 Great Plague Cleaver
0 Improvised weapon
3 Mace of Contagion
0 Plague knife
0 Plaguesword
4 Power fist

0 Blight Grenades
3 Blight Launcher
0 Bolt Pistol
0 Boltgun
0 Krak Grenade
3 Meltagun
3 Plague belcher
4 Plague spewer
3 Plasma gun
1 Plasma pistol

3 Icon of Despair

Space Marines

15 Intercessor
16 *Gunner
16 *Sergeant
16 Reiver
17 *Sergeant
10 Scout
11 *Gunner
11 *Sergeant
12 Tactical
13 *Gunner
13 *Sergeant

0 Shotgun
0 Auto bolt rifle
0 Bolt carbine
0 Bolt pistol
0 Bolt rifle
0 Boltgun
3 Combi-flamer
2 Combi-grav
3 Combi-melta
4 Combi-plasma
3 Flamer
0 Frag grenade
2 Grav-gun
1 Grav-pistol
0 Heavy bolt pistol
3 Heavy bolter
0 Krak grenade
3 Meltagun
5 Missile launcher
3 Plasma gun
1 Plasma pistol
0 Shock grenade
1 Sniper rifle
0 Stalker bolt rifle

0 Chainsword
0 Combat knife
4 Power fist
2 Power sword

1 Auspex
0 Auxillary grenade launcher
1 Camo cloak
1 Grapnel launcher
1 Grav-chute

^ SM from the Drive Through unboxing, which has very clear shots. All other numbers are as close as I could tell from blurry screen caps of folded pages and making some assumptions about consistent page layout when it comes to weapon names.

- Salvage

Aside from Colonel Schaeffer who had the 3rd edition IG Colonel statline. Is there any way to field the Last Chancers (the original Kill Team for all you whipper snappers) using this Astra Militarium list and the specialist skill trees? Can you even still do it or get close with the Veterans entry in the regular 8e List?

Kicking myself for selling the Last Chancers models a number of years ago.

I'm just hoping that this game will be fun enough for an excuse to use my dusty old Grey Knights. Even if it is just the strikes.

Seeing as we haven't seen the complete skill trees or Imperial Guard equipment list yet, unknown.