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the_scotsman wrote:


I can absolutely see why Scorpions are not in the game and rangers are: Rangers provide a different role than any of the other units, a Scorpion is a Storm Guardian with +1S, +1Ld and +2sv.

But those Tyranid Lictors, being Tyranid Warriors with +2 S, +1 W, +3 M and overall identical saves due to how their rules work in cover....those are okay!

But...but...but Lictors are fluffy and wholly appropriate for Kill Team! They match the idea perfectly! They suit the concept! They're infiltration and stealth specialists!

Drat, you got me there.

If only Eldar had an Aspect shrine that were suited for Kill Team, that matched the idea and were infiltration and stealth specialists....oh wait, those are Striking Scorpions..

 Boss Salvage wrote:

 Boss Salvage wrote:


So yea, looking like there's a way to buy more CP ala AOS.

Got it from the Drive Through review:

+1 CP per full 10 Force (points + other campaign stuff) lower your team is than the highest team in the match

Likely not a ton of extras in matched play, and even then you're shorting yourself a dude in the hope you're at least 10 under the other team(s).

Can't use the same tactic in a phase, generic ones are:



- Salvage

Or if a good portion of your fire team gets killed. Then you wouldn't be able to get enough new recruits to fill up the points.
But I agree it doesn't look like it will come up very often.

 Haighus wrote:
I think this is easier to rationalise if you consider the scale of the missions. They are not hugely important on a global campaign scale, but more like locally vital targets. Blowing up a supply dump, assassinating a local commander, that kind of thing.

So when GW says 'elite warriors' and 'die-hard special operatives' what they actually mean (obviously! dur) is unremarkable dudes. Well that's nice and clear!


Why would the Eldar ever send their professional soldiers (except the plastic ones!) on such missions when they can send citizen levies? makes perfect sense. Narrative forged.

 Scott-S6 wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:

What is kill team supposed to be? If its a group of highly specialised soldiers

No, it isn't. It's about regular guardsmen, Marines, firewarriors, etc.

If the basic marine was sternguard and the basic tau was a crisis suit then you might have a point that eldar should have been all aspect warriors.

I'm pretty sure the thematic inspirations for Kill Team include things like the A-Team, Rambo, the Dirty Dozen and so forth...you know, teams of specialists operating behind enemy lines, fighting against rivals of similar calibre to survive.

Not regular guardsmen, Marines, firewarriors etc.

If that was the case then Factions would NOT include Deathwatch, Grey Knights or Harlequins.

PErsonally, all I;'ve seen of KT so far has disappointed me.

I was hoping GW would learn from SW:A and give us a specialist game based around small squads of specialists, allowing us to convert up unorthodox models in different roles with unconventional armaments to stand out from the crowd.

Instead we're getting plug and play Necromunda Lite with 40k elements.

Worse still - you're restricted by what the kit actually has as far as wargear options go.

I personally was pissed by the CSM preview basically giving us trash tier NPC Grunts as our kill team - the only saving grace would have been converting things up for different Legions - using Power Mauls and Hammers for IW teams, going melta heavy...or perhaps Axe and Chain Axe heavy for a WE kill team....Or sticking Claws on a NL team...

But haha, wargear is restricted worse than SWA!

All the hype in terms of concept but a massive swing and a miss in terms of execution.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Lord Damocles wrote:

 Haighus wrote:
I think this is easier to rationalise if you consider the scale of the missions. They are not hugely important on a global campaign scale, but more like locally vital targets. Blowing up a supply dump, assassinating a local commander, that kind of thing.

So when GW says 'elite warriors' and 'die-hard special operatives' what they actually mean (obviously! dur) is unremarkable dudes. Well that's nice and clear!


Why would the Eldar ever send their professional soldiers (except the plastic ones!) on such missions when they can send citizen levies? makes perfect sense. Narrative forged.

Why would the CSM Kill Team ever be anything beyond NPC grunt bad guys? Who stand around oblivious to everything? At least I can work some themes with Eldar - a Ranger heavy Alaitoc infiltration team, a mixed Guardian team done up as Black Guardians of Ulthwe....but I'm struggling to even look at CSM when I know full well that the CSM options are literally going to be Boltgun OR bolt pistol and chainsword - but not boltgun and chainsword because no no no, that's not how it works.

Ah nice, I was wondering if the Chaos tactic was a goof on their part, but nice to see that some can't be unlocked until later down the line in campaigns.

fresus wrote:
Or if a good portion of your fire team gets killed. Then you wouldn't be able to get enough new recruits to fill up the points.
But I agree it doesn't look like it will come up very often.

Yea, I was just assuming one-off matched play stuff where everybody's fresh and stuff. There's certainly some fun single day campaigns to be had with KT for those of us who can't commit to drawn out things.

Side quibble: Noticed that the wording on Tacticals only allows 1 special weapon and/or 1 heavy, while Scouts can double down on heavies (tho snipers are lumped in the same selection as heavy weapons). Hoping my CSM can take 2x special still (although it's a pretty minor thing).

- Salvage

Do we know yet if Guard can make medics yet? Really curious how things like that would play out.

 Cephalobeard wrote:
Do we know yet if Guard can make medics yet? Really curious how things like that would play out.

I think in narrative campaigns every faction will have access to medic specialists.

 axisofentropy wrote:

 Cephalobeard wrote:
Do we know yet if Guard can make medics yet? Really curious how things like that would play out.

I think in narrative campaigns every faction will have access to medic specialists.

Ah, allow me to elaborate. I meant within Matched play. I have a lovely model I want desperately to convert into a medic, and this is the prime opportunity.

 Cephalobeard wrote:
I'm a little bummed by only Level 1 specialists being allowed for Matched play.

This is really the one thing I've seen so far that has seriously disappointed me; since specialist upgrades have point costs attached to them I see no reason why we can't pay for the higher tiers. I want to run a team that's just four tier 3 badasses.

Some entries must have access to it, but I'm wondering if all factions do? For example Poxwalkers only have two skill trees listed (Combat + Zealotry?), not sure the Plague Marine entry has access to all the missing ones, though one of its profiles might.

- Salvage

 Arachnofiend wrote:

 Cephalobeard wrote:
I'm a little bummed by only Level 1 specialists being allowed for Matched play.

This is really the one thing I've seen so far that has seriously disappointed me; since specialist upgrades have point costs attached to them I see no reason why we can't pay for the higher tiers. I want to run a team that's just four tier 3 badasses.

It's very odd. As soon as I saw points I immediately thought "Okay, cool, this is how they balanced it for matched play." and then... I kept reading...

*GW slaps a rulebook*

This thing can fit so many restrictions in it

Only special equipment I saw for Guard is a vox caster if I saw it correctly.

 AndrewGPaul wrote:

 Galas wrote:

Guardians are basically militias, like the High Elf Spearmen of Fantays. Yeah, some of them did had a time in some warrior path, but Eldar jump fron path to path regularly, many guardians never had military training.

Like I said, the background I remember stated that Guardians had all previously been warriors. Perhaps that bit's been dropped at some point.

No.
Guardians are militia. But guardians with an good previous experience of combat (aka who have been aspect warrior in a previous path) are usually leaders of the squad. Well at least it was the case in old editions.

I was fairly certain that guardians were *trained* militia. Not just random citizens picked up and told how to fight.
While that's certainly not the same thing as a career soldier, it's probably on par with about 1/2 the guard regiments (accounting for rookie inflow from casualties)

 DarkStarSabre wrote:

 Scott-S6 wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:

What is kill team supposed to be? If its a group of highly specialised soldiers

No, it isn't. It's about regular guardsmen, Marines, firewarriors, etc.

If the basic marine was sternguard and the basic tau was a crisis suit then you might have a point that eldar should have been all aspect warriors.

I'm pretty sure the thematic inspirations for Kill Team include things like the A-Team, Rambo, the Dirty Dozen and so forth...you know, teams of specialists operating behind enemy lines, fighting against rivals of similar calibre to survive.

Not regular guardsmen, Marines, firewarriors etc.

If that was the case then Factions would NOT include Deathwatch, Grey Knights or Harlequins.

PErsonally, all I;'ve seen of KT so far has disappointed me.

I was hoping GW would learn from SW:A and give us a specialist game based around small squads of specialists, allowing us to convert up unorthodox models in different roles with unconventional armaments to stand out from the crowd.

Instead we're getting plug and play Necromunda Lite with 40k elements.

Worse still - you're restricted by what the kit actually has as far as wargear options go.

I personally was pissed by the CSM preview basically giving us trash tier NPC Grunts as our kill team - the only saving grace would have been converting things up for different Legions - using Power Mauls and Hammers for IW teams, going melta heavy...or perhaps Axe and Chain Axe heavy for a WE kill team....Or sticking Claws on a NL team...

But haha, wargear is restricted worse than SWA!

All the hype in terms of concept but a massive swing and a miss in terms of execution.

Yes, precisely! I was hoping to build my own A-team with specialists with unorthodox weapons and equipment, with rules that reflected that. Instead we get 8th with some recycled ideas thrown in.

 Mmmpi wrote:

 AndrewGPaul wrote:

When did Scorpions become the "stealthy" ones, anyway?

Since they were first given stats.

1st and 2nd edition army lists make no such claim.

I was wrong about the Guardians, though - the ones with prior Aspect Warrior experience provide the officers, not the entire force.

Dreyf wrote:

 AndrewGPaul wrote:

 Galas wrote:

Guardians are basically militias, like the High Elf Spearmen of Fantays. Yeah, some of them did had a time in some warrior path, but Eldar jump fron path to path regularly, many guardians never had military training.

Like I said, the background I remember stated that Guardians had all previously been warriors. Perhaps that bit's been dropped at some point.

No.
Guardians are militia. But guardians with an good previous experience of combat (aka who have been aspect warrior in a previous path) are usually leaders of the squad. Well at least it was the case in old editions.

You’re right about Guardian Defenders; the thing about former Aspect Warriors becoming officers goes all the way back to the late Rogue Trader era.

In some codexes, starting with 3rd edition’s when they became a formal unit, Storm Guardians were said to have previously walked the Path of the Warrior in a close combat-oriented temple.

 AndrewGPaul wrote:

 Mmmpi wrote:

 AndrewGPaul wrote:

When did Scorpions become the "stealthy" ones, anyway?

Since they were first given stats.

1st and 2nd edition army lists make no such claim.

I was wrong about the Guardians, though - the ones with prior Aspect Warrior experience provide the officers, not the entire force.

Yeah their Phoenix Lord is the one with Stealth in the earliest descriptions (although I need to check my WD where they first appeared) - they def "Stalk the Shadows" emulating the Pheonix Lord by 2006

 Mr Morden wrote:

Yes, precisely! I was hoping to build my own A-team with specialists with unorthodox weapons and equipment, with rules that reflected that. Instead we get 8th with some recycled ideas thrown in.

You wanted to build a team of 4 dudes armed with Mini-14’s who can’t hit the broad side of a barn?

Tbo_stephen wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:

Yes, precisely! I was hoping to build my own A-team with specialists with unorthodox weapons and equipment, with rules that reflected that. Instead we get 8th with some recycled ideas thrown in.

You wanted to build a team of 4 dudes armed with Mini-14’s who can’t hit the broad side of a barn?

That's one hyper-elite Ork kill team.

Tbo_stephen wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:

Yes, precisely! I was hoping to build my own A-team with specialists with unorthodox weapons and equipment, with rules that reflected that. Instead we get 8th with some recycled ideas thrown in.

You wanted to build a team of 4 dudes armed with Mini-14’s who can’t hit the broad side of a barn?

um, those are ac556.

anyway, I'm kinda feeling shortchanged by the eldar(all flavours).

 Arachnofiend wrote:

Tbo_stephen wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:

Yes, precisely! I was hoping to build my own A-team with specialists with unorthodox weapons and equipment, with rules that reflected that. Instead we get 8th with some recycled ideas thrown in.

You wanted to build a team of 4 dudes armed with Mini-14’s who can’t hit the broad side of a barn?

That's one hyper-elite Ork kill team.

With one Black Ork with a Mowhawk!

Racerguy180 wrote:

Tbo_stephen wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:

Yes, precisely! I was hoping to build my own A-team with specialists with unorthodox weapons and equipment, with rules that reflected that. Instead we get 8th with some recycled ideas thrown in.

You wanted to build a team of 4 dudes armed with Mini-14’s who can’t hit the broad side of a barn?

um, those are ac556.

anyway, I'm kinda feeling shortchanged by the eldar(all flavours).

Well, technically, they’re just Hollywood props. Regarding the actual firearms, one’s full auto (with a shorter barrel, potentially) and one’s semi auto, but otherwise, they’re the same gun. Props for catching/pointing out the difference, even if the unwashed masses don’t get it

Tbo_stephen wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:

Yes, precisely! I was hoping to build my own A-team with specialists with unorthodox weapons and equipment, with rules that reflected that. Instead we get 8th with some recycled ideas thrown in.

You wanted to build a team of 4 dudes armed with Mini-14’s who can’t hit the broad side of a barn?

Missing the point and insulting a fun tv show! Nice!

Slight change of topic but is anyone aware of a breakdown of the terrain sprues in the core box vs the new terrain kits and also the new kill team sector mechanics box vs the existing sets? Thanks.

Does anyone know if the new core team box will include everything for 2 people to split (other than an additional core manual) and have everything they need to play the game individually (ie. against other people)? I wasnt sure if there were cards or markers/tokens in the box that would need to bought separately.
Just trying to decide if we need to both order a core team box or not.

plessiez wrote:
Slight change of topic but is anyone aware of a breakdown of the terrain sprues in the core box vs the new terrain kits and also the new kill team sector mechanics box vs the existing sets? Thanks.

I don't know for sure, but the current thought is it's an Administratum and Ruins sets. The Sector Mechanicus Killzone is a Ferratonic Incinerator, an Alchomite Stack, and a set of the new pipes (Thermic Plasma Conduits), I believe. I know for sure that they are $60, $50, and $35 for the three sets included if purchased individually.

-Edit, looked up the names.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Vindemus wrote:
Does anyone know if the new core team box will include everything for 2 people to split (other than an additional core manual) and have everything they need to play the game individually (ie. against other people)? I wasnt sure if there were cards or markers/tokens in the box that would need to bought separately.
Just trying to decide if we need to both order a core team box or not.

The core box contains all the tokens and cards required for gameplay, along with a board and sufficient, if not complete, terrain coverage. I did hear on one of the reviews today that the Genestealer cult unit of 10 guys is not enough to actually make a 100 point kill team, though I haven't seen their section in the rulebook myself. If that's actually the case, you may want to expand your Genestealer cult collection on day one, though that wouldn't require buying a second core set.

Thanks to GMG's review, we can confirm that while a single box of Skitarii Rangers/Vanguards can build a full 100 point Kill Team, a box of 10 Genestealer Cult dudes can only fill out, at best, 75 points of the full 100.

So, if you're planning on doing Genestealer Cult, get another box, or tack on some other models. :/

 Mr Morden wrote:

 AndrewGPaul wrote:

 Mmmpi wrote:

 AndrewGPaul wrote:

When did Scorpions become the "stealthy" ones, anyway?

Since they were first given stats.

1st and 2nd edition army lists make no such claim.

I was wrong about the Guardians, though - the ones with prior Aspect Warrior experience provide the officers, not the entire force.

Yeah their Phoenix Lord is the one with Stealth in the earliest descriptions (although I need to check my WD where they first appeared) - they def "Stalk the Shadows" emulating the Pheonix Lord by 2006

I checked the unit entry in the 2nd edition Codex for Scorpions, but not for Karandras. In any case, the WD where they first appeared was 127, several years before Phoenix Lords appeared in the game. Since they're described as green with yellow, black and orange markings (and depicted with sashimono-style back banners), it doesn't look like stealth was anything they particularly bothered with.

Anyway, I think I've ripped the arse out of this conversation long enough.

As for Matched Play only including the first level of the Specialist skill trees, that was to be expected, IMO; they already said that the advancement rules were part of Narrative Play, so that seems clear that in Matched Play, you only get "basic" units. If it's a problem, then just play Narrative.

drbored wrote:
Thanks to GMG's review, we can confirm that while a single box of Skitarii Rangers/Vanguards can build a full 100 point Kill Team, a box of 10 Genestealer Cult dudes can only fill out, at best, 75 points of the full 100.

So, if you're planning on doing Genestealer Cult, get another box, or tack on some other models. :/

I guess this problem is why they decided to give CP compensation to players who don't get to 100 points.