[40K] Kill Team News & Rumours page 148 : Arena expansion, new warzone and new models

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**witchdoctor**

I'd be surprised if Terminators weren't available around the time of the Rogue Trader release. Something about small elite teams fighting in environments with corridors and bulkheads seems to remind me of another boxed miniature game from GW...

IIRC, there was a CA or Black Gobbo (or whatever the web content was called at the time) article on a set of rules to turn 4th Edition Kill Team into Space Hulk. They had a nice terrain article with it too.

**drbored**

Terminators are just too strong for Kill Team. Adding them would shift the meta too far towards anti-armor with melta guns and fusion pistols being king, and flamers and bolters good for nothing.

The way injury rules work in Kill Team, a terminator with 2 wounds could last an incredible amount of time before being taken down, all the while being able to shoot and charge without fear. It just wouldn't be balanced, and not every faction gets access to a 2-wound 2+ save model that also has a 5++ invul save to be worth it, and some of the factions that do are even worse. Blightlord Terminators pack all of that, but are also T5. How do you balance that? The answer is: You don't. So you don't add them.

**Neronoxx**

drbored wrote:
Terminators are just too strong for Kill Team. Adding them would shift the meta too far towards anti-armor with melta guns and fusion pistols being king, and flamers and bolters good for nothing.

The way injury rules work in Kill Team, a terminator with 2 wounds could last an incredible amount of time before being taken down, all the while being able to shoot and charge without fear. It just wouldn't be balanced, and not every faction gets access to a 2-wound 2+ save model that also has a 5++ invul save to be worth it, and some of the factions that do are even worse. Blightlord Terminators pack all of that, but are also T5. How do you balance that? The answer is: You don't. So you don't add them.

No, but consider an expansion that was terminators only
That gets the juices flowing alright

**Davor**

Neronoxx wrote:
drbored wrote:
Terminators are just too strong for Kill Team. Adding them would shift the meta too far towards anti-armor with melta guns and fusion pistols being king, and flamers and bolters good for nothing.

The way injury rules work in Kill Team, a terminator with 2 wounds could last an incredible amount of time before being taken down, all the while being able to shoot and charge without fear. It just wouldn't be balanced, and not every faction gets access to a 2-wound 2+ save model that also has a 5++ invul save to be worth it, and some of the factions that do are even worse. Blightlord Terminators pack all of that, but are also T5. How do you balance that? The answer is: You don't. So you don't add them.

No, but consider an expansion that was terminators only
That gets the juices flowing alright

What about other armies then that don't have terminators? Why eliminate your player base to stop playing? While Terminators would be great for Death Wing, it would suck for others who don't get any equivalents.

**Barzam**

Aren't Tau stealth suits already more or less Terminator equivalents? Same with Tyranid Warriors? Termies would just need to be pretty limited, like you can only take one and no Cyclone missiles. I think it could work.

**Mr.Church13**

drbored wrote:
Terminators are just too strong for Kill Team. Adding them would shift the meta too far towards anti-armor with melta guns and fusion pistols being king, and flamers and bolters good for nothing.

The way injury rules work in Kill Team, a terminator with 2 wounds could last an incredible amount of time before being taken down, all the while being able to shoot and charge without fear. It just wouldn't be balanced, and not every faction gets access to a 2-wound 2+ save model that also has a 5++ invul save to be worth it, and some of the factions that do are even worse. Blightlord Terminators pack all of that, but are also T5. How do you balance that? The answer is: You don't. So you don't add them.

What? If Terminators are too strong because of 2 wounds then Warriors, Intercessors, and I think Stealth Suits all have to go also.

**Kanluwen**

drbored wrote:
Terminators are just too strong for Kill Team. Adding them would shift the meta too far towards anti-armor with melta guns and fusion pistols being king, and flamers and bolters good for nothing.

The way injury rules work in Kill Team, a terminator with 2 wounds could last an incredible amount of time before being taken down, all the while being able to shoot and charge without fear. It just wouldn't be balanced, and not every faction gets access to a 2-wound 2+ save model that also has a 5++ invul save to be worth it, and some of the factions that do are even worse. Blightlord Terminators pack all of that, but are also T5. How do you balance that? The answer is: You don't. So you don't add them.

Answer:
You balance it as part of a "High Value Target" package with things like Striking Scorpions/Warp Spiders, Mandrakes/Incubi, Crisis Suits, things of that nature.

I can't really find anything readily acceptable for AdMech at the moment(originally I thought of a Datasmith and Kastelan as a pair but that just doesn't work) and I'm sure people will argue until they're blue in the face that you can't actually do this but it's actually fairly doable.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Barzam wrote:
Aren't Tau stealth suits already more or less Terminator equivalents? Same with Tyranid Warriors? Termies would just need to be pretty limited, like you can only take one and no Cyclone missiles. I think it could work.

Stealth Suits are 3+ saves with a -1 to Hit at 12" or further--at least in the main game.

**Davor**

Mr.Church13 wrote:
drbored wrote:
Terminators are just too strong for Kill Team. Adding them would shift the meta too far towards anti-armor with melta guns and fusion pistols being king, and flamers and bolters good for nothing.

The way injury rules work in Kill Team, a terminator with 2 wounds could last an incredible amount of time before being taken down, all the while being able to shoot and charge without fear. It just wouldn't be balanced, and not every faction gets access to a 2-wound 2+ save model that also has a 5++ invul save to be worth it, and some of the factions that do are even worse. Blightlord Terminators pack all of that, but are also T5. How do you balance that? The answer is: You don't. So you don't add them.

What? If Terminators are too strong because of 2 wounds then Warriors, Intercessors, and I think Stealth Suits all have to go also.

I believe the problem is NOT IN THE WOUNDS but in the SAVES. A 2+ save takes you a long way especially when there is not as much volume of fire like in 40K. I could very well be wrong, but that is my guess.

**Stormonu**

drbored wrote:
Terminators are just too strong for Kill Team. Adding them would shift the meta too far towards anti-armor with melta guns and fusion pistols being king, and flamers and bolters good for nothing.

The way injury rules work in Kill Team, a terminator with 2 wounds could last an incredible amount of time before being taken down, all the while being able to shoot and charge without fear. It just wouldn't be balanced, and not every faction gets access to a 2-wound 2+ save model that also has a 5++ invul save to be worth it, and some of the factions that do are even worse. Blightlord Terminators pack all of that, but are also T5. How do you balance that? The answer is: You don't. So you don't add them.

Wow, is it weird hearing “terminators are too powerful!” I don’t agree. It would be somewhat akin to facing a knight army in regular 40K. It could be done, and I believe with even up to Dreadnaughts being fielded too.

For terminators, you would be fielding, at most, 3 at one time. Most teams are going to have more than one heavy weapon in their team anyway, so the extreme toughness can be mitigated if the opposing team is careful. Further, if they follow the SW:A rules (and with GW laziness, I don’t believe they would change that mechanic), you don’t make an injury check until the last wound is lost.

It would be tough fight, quite possibly a boring fight. But again, it wouldn’t be much different than a 40K game vs. Knights.

**BrookM**

Right now the focus of the game is more on light infantry as per the devs. YMMV as to what classifies as such, but they will add more units and unit types later down the line, working their way up from the groundwork they've laid down with the initial release.

IIRC Stealth Suits have a flat -1 to hit in Kill Team, no range was mentioned I think.

**Peregrine**

Of course terminators can be fine in kill team. Imagine a single terminator cost 100 points, with nothing but their 40k stat line. That would be laughably weak and probably lose every game. And obviously at 1ppm they'd be utterly broken. So obviously there's a middle ground where a terminator is a powerful model, but has a point cost that reflects its power.

**Bharring**

I wouldn't do Termies beside Scorpions/Spiders/Incubi/Mandrakes.

I'd do Termies beside Termies/Wraithguard/Grots.

ASM - with and without jetpacks - would go well in an expansion with Spiders/Incubi/Mandrakes/Vespids.

Scorpions would be in an expansion with SM Scouts.

(yes, that last line was a joke.)

**Mr Morden**

Barzam wrote:
No reason they couldn't get them to work here. I'm also kind of surprised Commissars aren't available.

Terminators for all Marine factions in the future would be nice, as would allowing cultists to be taken by Death Guard. They get a lot of wargear options, but are woefully limited in troop types. I can't exactly see Poxwalkers being anything aside from meatshields.

There is a vast amount of basic stuff (*) they didn't bother with never mind advanced stuff such as Terminators.

Units, equipment, weapon options - the sheet amount of customisation they ruled out with the copy paste and fanatical aversion to allowing kit bashing is scary.

Terminators would be fine - if you balance them.

**ecurtz**

Terminators should be fine, and I'd like to be able to use Kill Team as a more crunchy Space Hulk, so I hope we see them in an expansion. Even if they are really difficult to kill, that's not a deciding factor in a lot of scenarios - make them expensive and a bit slow and everything should balance out.

**Kanluwen**

Bharring wrote:
I wouldn't do Termies beside Scorpions/Spiders/Incubi/Mandrakes.

I'd do Termies beside Termies/Wraithguard/Grots.

Grots/Gretchin are in already...

ASM - with and without jetpacks - would go well in an expansion with Spiders/Incubi/Mandrakes/Vespids.

So, here's the way I'd do things:

Spoiler:

Also not sure if someone had posted this or not:

Spoiler:

From the Twitter of "Ashes of the Imperium", a good shot of the sprue contents and the colors of the sprues.

**Arachnofiend**

Actually a bit miffed that we're getting chapter tactics. I kinda liked the idea of being able to paint your dudes however you want without worrying about your favorite legion being the Bad One.

**Kanluwen**

Arachnofiend wrote:
Actually a bit miffed that we're getting chapter tactics. I kinda liked the idea of being able to paint your dudes however you want without worrying about your favorite legion being the Bad One.

Amusingly enough, a lot of the specialties will likely become far more useful here if they're just a 1:1 port.

**Irbis**

Davor wrote:
I believe the problem is NOT IN THE WOUNDS but in the SAVES. A 2+ save takes you a long way especially when there is not as much volume of fire like in 40K. I could very well be wrong, but that is my guess.

You realize plasma guns/pistols as well as power weapons are cheap as chips in KT, right? If you can have a Kill Team of 4 lictors, then I don't see why 1 or 2 termies would be a problem especially seeing they are slow and their offensive output is what, 2 bolters?

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Kanluwen wrote:
So, here's the way I'd do things:
Marines and Deathwatch--Sternguard/Vanguard

Also not sure if someone had posted this or not:

Spoiler:

From the Twitter of "Ashes of the Imperium", a good shot of the sprue contents and the colors of the sprues.

...why would DW want worse version of their own Veterans?

As for box, here, have unboxing video showing everything clearly including post-assembly:

**Mr.Church13**

Davor wrote:
Mr.Church13 wrote:
drbored wrote:
Terminators are just too strong for Kill Team. Adding them would shift the meta too far towards anti-armor with melta guns and fusion pistols being king, and flamers and bolters good for nothing.

The way injury rules work in Kill Team, a terminator with 2 wounds could last an incredible amount of time before being taken down, all the while being able to shoot and charge without fear. It just wouldn't be balanced, and not every faction gets access to a 2-wound 2+ save model that also has a 5++ invul save to be worth it, and some of the factions that do are even worse. Blightlord Terminators pack all of that, but are also T5. How do you balance that? The answer is: You don't. So you don't add them.

What? If Terminators are too strong because of 2 wounds then Warriors, Intercessors, and I think Stealth Suits all have to go also.

I believe the problem is NOT IN THE WOUNDS but in the SAVES. A 2+ save takes you a long way especially when there is not as much volume of fire like in 40K. I could very well be wrong, but that is my guess.

Well since Terminators are probably my favorite unit in the gameI can safely say that that 2+ means very little in the new AP world of 8th. At even -1 you become just a space marine and a space marine is basically a guardsman. I'm not saying the AP rules are bad but honestly I cant even remember the last time I got a full save in a game based on 8th edition rules. So I'm not seeing an issue with Terminators.

PS: Also Mortal Wounds.

**Requiet**

Whoever thinks 4+ and 5+ armor saves with 3 wounds are broken I don't think were playing the same game folks -.- how difficult is it to kill three guardsmen? That's what youre looking at for a single warrior or Lictor. No deepstrike shenanigans and the Lictor has the -1 to shoot. Once you guys get some actual experience killing off the bugs you'll pretend you never said such silly things >.>

**Justyn**

So how are Thunderwolves a thing in Kill Team if there is not Space Wolves faction?

Probably counts as - They have said if your faction is not there - just use another.

So its probably a guardsman or a Lictor or something.....

Best Army Ever, going to use all my Thunderwolves as Guardsmen.

**frankelee**

Considering that Kill Team is a completely separate game from Warhammer 40K, I'm not sure how any model they want to include is "too powerful". You don't have any idea what their rules are.

**Baxx**

W40k is different from N17 too, still a genestealer would be way too powerful without even thinking about what the rules would be. Similar to how broken the solitair was in SWA.

**Kanluwen**

So here's the terrain breakdown for Kill Team:

Games Workshop Product Page wrote:- 3 frames of Sector Imperialis buildings, each making 3 sections of ruins featuring shattered window sections, broken columns and pipework;
- 2 frames of ruins and floors: each contains 1 ruined corner piece section, 3 sections of broken floor, 1 section of unbroken floor, 1 small broken column, 4 small broken floor sections, 1 top piece, 2 support arches, 2 lamps which plug into the underside of the floor sections and 1 small circular lamp;
- 2 frames of walls and windows: each contains 4 complete wall sections, along with 4 columns, 1 ruined column top piece, 2 column top pieces, a vent and 2 small lamps;
- 1 frame of columns: 4 complete columns, 1 large archway, 2 support arches, 2 small lamps, 4 top pieces for the columns and 2 small broken floor sections.

It's hard to judge exactly what is what, but from what I'm able to puzzle out so far:

"Sector Imperialis Buildings" frames(read: Ruins kit):

Spoiler:

This is the "ruins and floors" frame, actually making more than just "scatter terrain" I guess?

Spoiler:

Frame of "Walls and Windows":

Spoiler:

Lastly you have the "columns" frame:

Spoiler:

It doesn't look like they give you any one specific scenery set in this, but rather you basically get a Sanctum Basilicum set minus the set of small statues and buttresses--ballpark the scenery value for the box for at least $105USD just for the ruins alone.

**Nightlord1987**

Arachnofiend wrote:
Actually a bit miffed that we're getting chapter tactics. I kinda liked the idea of being able to paint your dudes however you want without worrying about your favorite legion being the Bad One.

Haha same here. My Night Lords finally not being Counts as Alpha Legion was sounding good.

But oh well. Guess we're back to just picking the best trait over fluff again.

Maybe in Killteam Fear will actually be useful? Still doubt it.

**Apple Peel**

I was reading through the “supposedly” leaked rules, and I got to the Scions page, and if you were following this before, it actually does appear that Scions can take grenade launchers. It was just god-awfully blurred!

**stonehorse**

Arachnofiend wrote:
Actually a bit miffed that we're getting chapter tactics. I kinda liked the idea of being able to paint your dudes however you want without worrying about your favorite legion being the Bad One.

Just paint them however you like and use counts as rules, they are your models. I have yet to encounter anyone who is so strict that they'd disallowed counts as. If you do encounter someone like that, simply tell them they are a bit of a killjoy, and don't play with them.

**Coolyo294**

Sorry id this has already been asked, but i don't really feel like digging through 71 pages to find it. What are the points cost for vanilla marines? And can tacticals take heavy weapons?

**FrothingMuppet**

I was hoping we would get some tasty statue action in the box set but it looks like i'd need to pick up one of the two kits (or both) to scratch that itch

**Rubenite**

That Killzone: Sector Mechanicus box is a phenomenal deal. From the description on the NZ webstore:

Included are enough components to build an Alchomite Stack (a series of chimneys evoking the thick, acrid atmosphere of industry), a Ferrotonic Furnace (an enormous silo filled with toxic chemicals – or worse) and 2 sets of Plasma Conduits.

I'll assume they meant Ferrotonic Incinerator as that is the Furnace + walkways, so we have:

Ferrotonic Incinerator £35 / $60
Alchomite Stack £30 / $50
Plasma Conduits £22.50 / $35
Plasma Conduits £22.50 / $35
Total £110 / $180

All for £50 / $80. Plus you get the board and missions.

Looking forward to the Sector Munitorium shown on the Kill Team website and assuming the same price, we've got:

Munitorium Containers £30 / $50
Munitorium Containers £30 / $50
Galvanic Servohauler £25 / $40
Total £85 / $140

Still a pretty great deal!