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 Peregrine wrote:
Of course terminators can be fine in kill team. Imagine a single terminator cost 100 points, with nothing but their 40k stat line. That would be laughably weak and probably lose every game. And obviously at 1ppm they'd be utterly broken. So obviously there's a middle ground where a terminator is a powerful model, but has a point cost that reflects its power.

Isn't 100 points the amount you get for your whole unit in KT??

 Togusa wrote:

 Peregrine wrote:
Of course terminators can be fine in kill team. Imagine a single terminator cost 100 points, with nothing but their 40k stat line. That would be laughably weak and probably lose every game. And obviously at 1ppm they'd be utterly broken. So obviously there's a middle ground where a terminator is a powerful model, but has a point cost that reflects its power.

Isn't 100 points the amount you get for your whole unit in KT??

Congrats on identifying his point. 200 IQ.

 Nostromodamus wrote:

 Togusa wrote:

 Peregrine wrote:
Of course terminators can be fine in kill team. Imagine a single terminator cost 100 points, with nothing but their 40k stat line. That would be laughably weak and probably lose every game. And obviously at 1ppm they'd be utterly broken. So obviously there's a middle ground where a terminator is a powerful model, but has a point cost that reflects its power.

Isn't 100 points the amount you get for your whole unit in KT??

Congrats on identifying his point. 200 IQ.

I misread his post.

-=Edited for Politeness - Lorek =-

I compiled a breakdown of the Kill Team scenery sets:

Kill Team Starter Set (8 frames)


Ruins (2 frames)


Administratum (3 frames)


Sanctum (5 frames)

Basilicanum (7 frames)

jullevi wrote:
I compiled a breakdown of the Kill Team scenery sets:

Kill Team Starter Set (8 frames)



Ruins (2 frames)


Administratum (3 frames)


Sanctum (5 frames)



Basilicanum (7 frames)

Them thar images seem to be broken good sir!

jullevi wrote:
I compiled a breakdown of the Kill Team scenery sets:

I salute this work. Was figuring you got an Administratum (although it kind of looked like too much stuff for that in the Kill Box picture), but actually you get a Basilicanum minus the statues (and a box of Ruins). GW is finding a way to get fans a lot of terrain to throw down on the table (at a nice profit for them) with all this stuff.

THAT's A LOTTA SPRUES!!!


Automatically Appended Next Post:

ecurtz wrote:
Terminators should be fine, and I'd like to be able to use Kill Team as a more crunchy Space Hulk, so I hope we see them in an expansion. Even if they are really difficult to kill, that's not a deciding factor in a lot of scenarios - make them expensive and a bit slow and everything should balance out.

DEATHWING!!!!

jullevi wrote:
I compiled a breakdown of the Kill Team scenery sets:

Kill Team Starter Set (8 frames)

Spoiler:

Ruins (2 frames)

Spoiler:

Administratum (3 frames)

Spoiler:

Sanctum (5 frames)

Spoiler:

Basilicanum (7 frames)

Spoiler:

Thank you for the post!

So it looks like the Kill Team starter is basically the Basilicanum combined with the ruins set minus the statue sprue. That means you are basically getting the GSC, Ad-Mech, and rules, boards, etc. for free in the starter set.

That crafty GW. I wanted the statue sprue, so I’ll have to get the Bascillica set on it’s own.
Thanks for the break down on cost. That’s the information I have been looking for. That’s all I needed to decide to get the whole starter box.

Do we know yet how many specialists are allowed on a kill team and whether or not you can have more than one of the same type of specialist?

Currently you can have 4 specialists in matched play.

1 Leader
3 others

there is no rule limiting duplication.

There is a matched play rule that you can only include level 1 specialists in normal matched play games.

If you want to play with Terminators, go play Space Hulk. The reason Terminators are so powerful is that it's 2 wounds with a 2+ armor save and a 5+ invul save that could potentially be improved to 4+ if tzeentch or iron halo, and 3+ invul with storm shield. The game starts to break down.

Warriors have a 4+ armor save and 3 wounds. Lictors actually LOST their ability to get a 3+ armor save in cover and instead only have a 5+ armor save and a -2 to hit from range while obscured.

Just not worth it to bring Terminators into the mix. There's whole other games for those. Like, y'know, 40k. Space Hulk. Death Wing.

I don't know why people have such a hard time giving up those big elite units and vehicles to play a game that's about the basic troops.

drbored wrote:
If you want to play with Terminators, go play Space Hulk. The reason Terminators are so powerful is that it's 2 wounds with a 2+ armor save and a 5+ invul save that could potentially be improved to 4+ if tzeentch or iron halo, and 3+ invul with storm shield. The game starts to break down.

Warriors have a 4+ armor save and 3 wounds. Lictors actually LOST their ability to get a 3+ armor save in cover and instead only have a 5+ armor save and a -2 to hit from range while obscured.

Just not worth it to bring Terminators into the mix. There's whole other games for those. Like, y'know, 40k. Space Hulk. Death Wing.

I don't know why people have such a hard time giving up those big elite units and vehicles to play a game that's about the basic troops.

Just don't make those upgrades possible and keep it stuck at a 5++. Problem solved.

jullevi wrote:
I compiled a breakdown of the Kill Team scenery sets:

Kill Team Starter Set (8 frames)

Spoiler:

Ruins (2 frames)

Spoiler:

Administratum (3 frames)

Spoiler:

Sanctum (5 frames)

Spoiler:

Basilicanum (7 frames)

Spoiler:

Excellent work! Thank you for this.

Terminators under 8th rule are meh (and probably overpriced if they're in KT). In 7th KT they could be trouble because it used a different AP system.

blaktoof wrote:
Currently you can have 4 specialists in matched play.

1 Leader
3 others

there is no rule limiting duplication.

There is a matched play rule that you can only include level 1 specialists in normal matched play games.

I couldve sworn it said that you specifically could NOT take two of the same specialties in a kill team but you could have any number of the same in a roster

Chopstick wrote:
Terminators under 8th rule are meh (and probably overpriced if they're in KT). In 7th KT they could be trouble because it used a different AP system.

agreedo

and to be clear, nothing's stopping you and your friends from putting anything into Kill Team. You'll see how similar everything is, go ahead and try it with the 40k points; it's "close enough" to forge a good narrative. Have a kill team versus dreadnought game. go nuts! I might write rules for Inquisition...

*sigh* And still, not one sodding box of terrain that is just intact panels and floors.

Before anyone starts, it's all stunning and I'm glad it exists, but it really would be nice to one day be given the option to build a large, intact structure without having tons of leftover ruined bits. Hell I've still got no clue why GW don't sell the individual sprues as webstore exclusives - if they want people buying from them at full price that'd do the job.

 Yodhrin wrote:
*sigh* And still, not one sodding box of terrain that is just intact panels and floors.

Before anyone starts, it's all stunning and I'm glad it exists, but it really would be nice to one day be given the option to build a large, intact structure without having tons of leftover ruined bits. Hell I've still got no clue why GW don't sell the individual sprues as webstore exclusives - if they want people buying from them at full price that'd do the job.

I know, it really irritates me that I need to buy 2 or more of the same terrain kit to make 1 remotely whole building.

 Stormonu wrote:
I believe with even up to Dreadnaughts being fielded too.

I think you grossly underestimate how tough vehicles are in this edition.

At BS3+ with no modifiers to have a 75% chance of killing a dread you need:
12 krak missile shots (76.6%)
6 short range melta shots (75.9%)
13 overcharged plasmagun shots (77.1%)

The moment you introduce a unit like that melta and plasma are the only weapons worth taking and you have to be spamming them. 4 or 5 really is the useful minimum and you really want more than that. Any faction that can't take that many might as well not bother.

Not a good change.

Terminators have a much smaller impact (although they still drive the emphasis hard to special weapons) - two rapid firing over charged plasmaguns have an 84% chance of doing 2 wounds and a 46% chance of doing 4. 2 short range meltaguns have a 59% chance of doing 2 wounds and a 49% chance of doing 4. That's not great. 20 bolter shots has a 31% chance of doing 2 wounds and a 32% chance of doing nothing...

Also not a good change albeit not nearly as catastrophic as vehicles.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Racerguy180 wrote:

 Yodhrin wrote:
*sigh* And still, not one sodding box of terrain that is just intact panels and floors.

Before anyone starts, it's all stunning and I'm glad it exists, but it really would be nice to one day be given the option to build a large, intact structure without having tons of leftover ruined bits. Hell I've still got no clue why GW don't sell the individual sprues as webstore exclusives - if they want people buying from them at full price that'd do the job.

I know, it really irritates me that I need to buy 2 or more of the same terrain kit to make 1 remotely whole building.

Hopefully we'll get a new imperial sector box.

 stonehorse wrote:

 Arachnofiend wrote:
Actually a bit miffed that we're getting chapter tactics. I kinda liked the idea of being able to paint your dudes however you want without worrying about your favorite legion being the Bad One.

Just paint them however you like and use counts as rules, they are your models. I have yet to encounter anyone who is so strict that they'd disallowed counts as. If you do encounter someone like that, simply tell them they are a bit of a killjoy, and don't play with them.

Count as rules annoy me, regardless of what my opponent thinks. I don't want my Iron Warriors to play like Alpha Legion just because AL's rules are mechanically superior. Iron Warriors aren't exactly known for being sneaky.

In that case, get 5 marines with the rules you want and paint them up. Problem solved?

Baxx wrote:
In that case, get 5 marines with the rules you want and paint them up. Problem solved?

If Alpha Legion was the army I wanted to play I would have painted them that way in the first place...

So what is everyone preordering?

I went for the starter box plus basilicanum and kill zone mechanicum plus a promethium refinery.

That should give me two well stocked kill zones.

Starter Box (for £63.80) and a second board off ebay to play multi-player games.

I went with two base boxes (have a lack of 40k appropriate buildings so thought this would be good opportunity to get some cheap), 1 zone Mecnachum (already have two Kill Team boxes and two extra refinaries so hopefully getting close to a good Necromunda table now) and one each of the Ork and SM Kill Team boxes plus a pack of the KT cards and a Gretchen box as was all I was missing for full Ork options.

Starter and sector mechanicus was going to get Orks but the crane will be in the next killzone so I figured ill wait to see what the rules are in the starters before I got that route. Hard pressed between a second starter or the sanctum/basicilica sets (want those statues) or honestly just ebaying for more sector mechanicus gantries to make a real field of it

Just the Starter Set for me. I have enough minis for making my SM Kill Team. I may get more of the Terrain at some point.

Starter collection (free express shipping, yas!) and a Sanctum for me, may get the Scions starter if it goes up next weekend.

I wanted more terrain, but sadly it's not as cheapo as the previous Cities of Death stuff was. Guess I'll slowly add to the city over time then, but for now the starter contents + Sanctum should be enough to fill out 22” x 30” comfortably.

I'd love to get the Sector Mechanicus killzone, but I already have way more Mechanicus terrain then I'll ever need right now.

 Arachnofiend wrote:
Count as rules annoy me, regardless of what my opponent thinks. I don't want my Iron Warriors to play like Alpha Legion just because AL's rules are mechanically superior. Iron Warriors aren't exactly known for being sneaky.

Why? If they are supposed to be siege masters, they totally need to be. Mining and counter-mining involved sending kill teams into small tunnels for centuries in real life, ditto for sallies out of and into fortifications, as well as patrolling no man's shelled land and attempts to capture prisoners. Out of all styles of warfare, sieges tend to favour kill team style operations the most, because say armoured or air mobile division or mounted/bike infantry tactics other marines prefer can do without small infiltration and scout squads, you kind of need them for static warfare unless you're dumber than an ork...