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 Wulfmar wrote:
I'm probably late to the party here as I've only looked properly at what GW is selling for Killteam

£37.50 for five Burna Boyz (Usually £15.50) a terrain piece and some cardboard? Really?

If I conveniently ignore the ridiculous price... special cards for the Orks with rules that are only available in the box, and not in the main card pack or BRB? Isn't that like a pay-to-win/get perks kinda collectable game sorta thing? "Only I can use these special abilities because I bought the expensive box rather than a normal box of Burna Boyz"

But let's move past that... 5 Burna Boyz kill Team. .. is it somehow comparable to the 5 Primaris Reavers Space Puppy Furryteam?

Am I missing something here? I feel like I am missing something that makes this all perfectly acceptable and somehow logical

The RRP on that Terrain is £25 as it's a significant size kit. Plus you get a background booklet, 13 tactics cards, 2 mission cards, 5 character cards and a sheet of Ork themed gaming tokens. With discount you can pick it up for £30, seems like a decent price to me.

The card text will be online next Saturday and unless you are playing in a very strict official tournament then there is no need for the actual cards so not really pay to win.

It's a saving if you're after the terrain, granted. My preference is just to get the squad with cards (or preferably have race specific ability packs you can buy separate from boxes or bundles).

The fact the cards will be online has settled my incredulity somewhat, I'll just have to keep my fingers crossed for aforementioned race specific ability card packs (as I prefer nice printed cards as opposed to hand written, but again that's just preference)

Thanks for the clarification, very helpful!

 Haighus wrote:

 Cephalobeard wrote:
That makes flamers much less attractive than I had originally thought.

Except you can spread the shots to models within 2" of the target. There are also typically 2-3" bubbles for aura effects, so units want to bunch up to get aura effects, but then they are vulnerable to multi-shot weapons...

I like it.

That definitely helps a bit.

I'm sure resellers are going to split these expansion boxes up- sure you may need to pay a nominal fee for the cards, but if you aren't interested in the terrain, someone else certainly will be, even moreso when it's cheaper than usual.

I don't want another crane (not like I painted the one I already have), but I know I might scoop up some cheap boyz just to try something new.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2018/07/25/25th-july-preview-the-writhing-shadowgw-homepage-post-1/

"You won’t find these tactics anywhere else – if you’re looking to try them out, make sure to get the set!" - isn't that pretty much 'nope' to hopes of complete tactic deck down the line?

 Irbis wrote:

"You won’t find these tactics anywhere else – if you’re looking to try them out, make sure to get the set!"

That's pretty disgusting.

 Crimson wrote:

 Irbis wrote:

"You won’t find these tactics anywhere else – if you’re looking to try them out, make sure to get the set!"

That's pretty disgusting.

Disgusting or great business? While I don't like it, I don't condone it, I can understand it. I wouldn't say disgusting, just disappointed.

Eh, so what was the Ork Exclusive tactic?

My list is already garbage, but what am I missing out on?

 Crimson wrote:

 Irbis wrote:

"You won’t find these tactics anywhere else – if you’re looking to try them out, make sure to get the set!"

That's pretty disgusting.

You won't find these tactics anywhere else... besides the internet like 1 day before the set is even availible to buy.

Davor wrote:

Disgusting or great business?

Unfortunately, probably both.

Cordial wrote:

 Scott-S6 wrote:

 David Clarke wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:
One thing to bear in mind with all this talk of blobbing is that multi-shot weapons become much, MUCH more powerful in this game system when models are bunched together. a multi-shot weapon (say, a frag cannon) can only get a single flesh wound on a guardsman - the only way to get multiple wound rolls is by using a multi damage weapon - but against four guardsmen grouped up, you can roll the 2d6 and say "ok, every guardsman eats two hits of this roll of 8.

Same deal with say, a storm bolter. "I'm going to make one shot against each guardsmen" is going to be much more effective than 4 shots on one guardsman.

I'm not quite following what you are trying to say here. If a single guardsman gets shot by a frag cannon he's getting hit 2d6 times, which will be 2d6 wound rolls followed by the resultant save & injury rolls. The combat sequence rules in the book describe making the attacks one at a time with a side bar for fast dice rolling which allows you to roll all the attacks for the same weapon at once. I'm completely lost on where the idea of Frag Cannon will only result in single flesh wound comes from(other than my usual piss poor dice rolling!)?

"If a model's wounds are reduced to 0 any further attacks directed against this model by the attacking weapon are not resolved and then the player controlling the the attacking model makes an injury roll for the target model"

So you get 12 hits on a guardsmen, wound and failed save on the first one - the rest are discarded and you make one injury roll.

Weapons with high damage (higher than 1) get to make multiple rolls on the injury table so that isn't wasted but excess shots/hits on a model get you nothing.

That makes no sense. Since you're never forced to fast roll your attacks, why would you ever fast roll for a multishot weapon instead of just doing them one at a time to mitigate wasting shots? Or in the case of a sniper rifle where you roll a 6 and inflict a mortal wound in addition to the weapon's regular damage, you'd do the injury roll for the mortal wound and the normal damage is lost... so you could only ever get your mortal wound and normal damage onto a model is if it has 2+ Wounds.

I agree, the rule does seem to read that way from the book, but in the demo of the game on WHTV last Friday, they had multishot weapons incurring an injury roll for each point of unsaved damage.

It doesn't have anything to do with fast rolling unless you have more than one of the same weapon on a model. Once a model hits zero wounds you throw away the rest of that weapon's shots.

Re the WHTV example either that was subsequent weapons or they were just playing it wrong (wouldn't be the first time).

In answer to warhanmer TV doing something wrong you still declare all of the shots targets before you roll. You select a model to shoot. Roll dice for variable shots. Select targets.

It is your choice to fast roll or not but if I have six shots going on bucky and 2 to cap over there, 5 hit bucky 3 wound bucky only takes 1 injury for that, move on to the two shots that cap took whether you roll them all at once or not the declared shots against that target are wasted passed that injury roll (including mortals from snipers and such)

Funny thing to note is even if you get hit with a 6 damage weapon and you miraculously make 6 flesh wounds and no taken out, you only suffer one flesh wound because you roll all 6 injuries and take the worst roll.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also in reference to the starters I think 8 genestealer may be one of the closest to an actual kill team in a box. One more stealer and youre at 99 points Lol

Reivers aren't awful maxing out their gear will get you close but skitarii is the only bonafide one to give you a full team ironic since the Gsc is so low

 Crimson wrote:

 Irbis wrote:

"You won’t find these tactics anywhere else – if you’re looking to try them out, make sure to get the set!"

That's pretty disgusting.

How long before GW triumphantly announce “THE GAME YOU ASKED FOR!”

Pancakey wrote:

 Crimson wrote:

 Irbis wrote:

"You won’t find these tactics anywhere else – if you’re looking to try them out, make sure to get the set!"

That's pretty disgusting.

How long before GW triumphantly announce “THE GAME YOU ASKED FOR!”

in the case of killteam, this is the game I have been begging for.

 thekingofkings wrote:


in the case of killteam, this is the game I have been begging for.

Me too, I'm incredibly excited about it, and that's even with my favorite faction not being represented initially. It is kind of disappointing the tactics cards won't be available separately from the starter packs, but it's not a huge deal to me as A) You don't need them to play B)You really only will be picking up the ones for factions you play. Of the factions I'm going to play Admech and GSC are in the starter, and I will be picking up the Scions set because I want more Scions and the terrain is something I will use, so the cards are a nice bonus. Dark Eldar and Deathwatch aren't yet released, so I'm not sure if I'll be picking those starters up....but if they have decent terrain and models I can use at a decent price I will. I will say the Ork set feels a bit lackluster, as the Burnas/Lootas are one of the cheapest kits available, don't make a full kill team, and I don't imagine most people will want a ton of cranes. They could have at least tossed in one of the easy to assemble Battle of Vedros Boy packs in there to give you a few more bodies.

That said, Saturday can't come soon enough.

 Sabotage! wrote:

 thekingofkings wrote:


in the case of killteam, this is the game I have been begging for.

Me too, I'm incredibly excited about it, and that's even with my favorite faction not being represented initially. It is kind of disappointing the tactics cards won't be available separately from the starter packs, but it's not a huge deal to me as A) You don't need them to play B)You really only will be picking up the ones for factions you play. Of the factions I'm going to play Admech and GSC are in the starter, and I will be picking up the Scions set because I want more Scions and the terrain is something I will use, so the cards are a nice bonus. Dark Eldar and Deathwatch aren't yet released, so I'm not sure if I'll be picking those starters up....but if they have decent terrain and models I can use at a decent price I will. I will say the Ork set feels a bit lackluster, as the Burnas/Lootas are one of the cheapest kits available, don't make a full kill team, and I don't imagine most people will want a ton of cranes. They could have at least tossed in one of the easy to assemble Battle of Vedros Boy packs in there to give you a few more bodies.

That said, Saturday can't come soon enough.

hells yeah, I am just sitting on some sprues waiting to build and paint right now, I have some custodes and sisters of silence i am debating keeping in case they make an appearance

 thekingofkings wrote:


hells yeah, I am just sitting on some sprues waiting to build and paint right now, I have some custodes and sisters of silence i am debating keeping in case they make an appearance

You totally gave me an idea on what to do since I don't any tempestus scions I might use my sisters of silence as my "elite" guardsmen for that kill team..... I think a headswap and I should be fine

 Scott-S6 wrote:

"If a model's wounds are reduced to 0 any further attacks directed against this model by the attacking weapon are not resolved and then the player controlling the the attacking model makes an injury roll for the target model"

So you get 12 hits on a guardsmen, wound and failed save on the first one - the rest are discarded and you make one injury roll.

Weapons with high damage (higher than 1) get to make multiple rolls on the injury table so that isn't wasted but excess shots/hits on a model get you nothing.

Cheers for clearing that up for me. That makes sense, changes my default assumptions on the relative merits of multi-shot vs multi-damage weapon which I'd imagine is the authorial intent behind the rule.

 David Clarke wrote:

 Scott-S6 wrote:

"If a model's wounds are reduced to 0 any further attacks directed against this model by the attacking weapon are not resolved and then the player controlling the the attacking model makes an injury roll for the target model"

So you get 12 hits on a guardsmen, wound and failed save on the first one - the rest are discarded and you make one injury roll.

Weapons with high damage (higher than 1) get to make multiple rolls on the injury table so that isn't wasted but excess shots/hits on a model get you nothing.

Cheers for clearing that up for me. That makes sense, changes my default assumptions on the relative merits of multi-shot vs multi-damage weapon which I'd imagine is the authorial intent behind the rule.

I think it really cements multi shot weapons having a spray and pray effect where you want to spread a lot of damage or suppressing fire but don't expect to kill anything but you hit anyone with a lascannon youll hit one person really well and make their existence past tense

Man, Reanimation Protocols is gonna be REALLY funny against multi-damage weapons. The more dice you roll, the more likely one of them is going to be a 6.

Just a note on damage. I think there are a few misconceptions. If a weapon scores wounds, you only have to roll the number of injury dice it takes to reach zero, so a 1 wound model that takes 3 wounds rolls once, but a three wound model that takes 3 wounds rolls three times. Its a pretty cool way to balance multi wound models. Yes you will last longer, but you have higher odds of being taken out by multi wound weapons.

Smellingsalts wrote:
Just a note on damage. I think there are a few misconceptions. If a weapon scores wounds, you only have to roll the number of injury dice it takes to reach zero, so a 1 wound model that takes 3 wounds rolls once, but a three wound model that takes 3 wounds rolls three times. Its a pretty cool way to balance multi wound models. Yes you will last longer, but you have higher odds of being taken out by multi wound weapons.

Incorrect it specifically states that it has to be an weapon with a damage greater than one. If you reduce my warrior to 0 wounds with 6 shots that all deal 1 damage I only roll 1 injury.

"If a model loses its last wound to an attack that has a Damage characteristic of more than 1, the player rolling the attack makes a number of injury rolls equal to that characteristic when making the injury roll..."

I think the interesting thing that keeps popping up in games ive played is your opponent is supposed to roll injuries for your models but every person ive played automatically rolls their own, maybe its because the roll is after saves and youre already rolling the dice but technically its something the opponent rolls

Your opponent rolling for injuries of your models may be due to some tactic cards influencing the roll.

Definitely love that one especially with a Lictor grasping talons. I think it could be handled by either player but I brought it up as something to watch out for simply because i kept noticing it at the tables

Requiet wrote:
If you reduce my warrior to 0 wounds with 6 shots that all deal 1 damage I only roll 1 injury.

Which is ing stupid, and an obvious candidate to be house ruled to one injury roll per wound. Surviving the first bullet doesn't magically make the other ones disappear. TBH I can't imagine anyone playing this RAW.

Requiet wrote:

Smellingsalts wrote:
Just a note on damage. I think there are a few misconceptions. If a weapon scores wounds, you only have to roll the number of injury dice it takes to reach zero, so a 1 wound model that takes 3 wounds rolls once, but a three wound model that takes 3 wounds rolls three times. Its a pretty cool way to balance multi wound models. Yes you will last longer, but you have higher odds of being taken out by multi wound weapons.

Incorrect it specifically states that it has to be an weapon with a damage greater than one. If you reduce my warrior to 0 wounds with 6 shots that all deal 1 damage I only roll 1 injury.

"If a model loses its last wound to an attack that has a Damage characteristic of more than 1, the player rolling the attack makes a number of injury rolls equal to that characteristic when making the injury roll..."

I think the interesting thing that keeps popping up in games ive played is your opponent is supposed to roll injuries for your models but every person ive played automatically rolls their own, maybe its because the roll is after saves and youre already rolling the dice but technically its something the opponent rolls

Are you sure you're reading it right? Because to me it seems to be referring to an single attack. If there's multiple attacks, then you would roll a number of dice equal to the total damage characteristic

"If a model loses its last wound to an attack that has a Damage characteristic of more than 1, the player rolling the attack makes a number of injury rolls equal to that characteristic when making the injury roll..."

If we are to assume that the 6 attacks with a damage characteristic of 1 are all separate attacks (in other words, each one is an attack), then yes, you would roll 6 injury rolls.

There's also a statement that, after rolling an injury roll, you discard all other pending attacks and don't resolve them. IMO the only reasonable explanation is that the intent was to discard the pending attacks if the model dies, just stating the obvious that you don't need to keep rolling to wound a model that is already gone and you don't get to move the attacks to a different model. It's just so obviously stupid that if you get shot twice you magically make the second bullet go away if you survive the first one, and your chance of dying is no greater than if you had only been shot once.

Requiet wrote:

Smellingsalts wrote:
Just a note on damage. I think there are a few misconceptions. If a weapon scores wounds, you only have to roll the number of injury dice it takes to reach zero, so a 1 wound model that takes 3 wounds rolls once, but a three wound model that takes 3 wounds rolls three times. Its a pretty cool way to balance multi wound models. Yes you will last longer, but you have higher odds of being taken out by multi wound weapons.

Incorrect it specifically states that it has to be an weapon with a damage greater than one. If you reduce my warrior to 0 wounds with 6 shots that all deal 1 damage I only roll 1 injury.

"If a model loses its last wound to an attack that has a Damage characteristic of more than 1, the player rolling the attack makes a number of injury rolls equal to that characteristic when making the injury roll..."

I think the interesting thing that keeps popping up in games ive played is your opponent is supposed to roll injuries for your models but every person ive played automatically rolls their own, maybe its because the roll is after saves and youre already rolling the dice but technically its something the opponent rolls

This lead to some weirdness in munda where if you had, say, 3W remaining and got hit by a Dam. 3 weapon, you'd make 3 injury roles. It felt pretty counter intuitive that extra wounds provided no buffer when being hit by multi-damage weapons.

I've also read that if you are hit by a multi-damage weapon in Kill Team you roll an injury dice for every point of damage and pick *only the highest* roll. This means high damage weapons are more likely to take someone out instantly, but you don't end up with stacks of flesh wounds on a low roll. It also makes the supposed Necron RP ability pretty damn good,

 Crimson wrote:

 Irbis wrote:

"You won’t find these tactics anywhere else – if you’re looking to try them out, make sure to get the set!"

That's pretty disgusting.

And it's not even a original terrible idea, FFG got rightfully pilloried for this kind of gak in X-Wing

 Captain Joystick wrote:
I got to (briefly) skim through the book, rolled on the guard background tables for fun. My kill team is a crack team of tank hunters with a solid Rep. You don't wanna mess with these guys. They've gone AWOL in search of treasure in no-man's land.

Oddball wrote:Always with the negative waves Moriarty, always with the negative waves.