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That NOVA pack is... frankly amazing. GW has put together a fantastic pack with really specific terrain and missions, as well as secondary objectives. It looks like they took a page out of ITC's book and made their own rules. They even have points on cheating and slow-play!

This is definitely the right direction, and it makes me even more excited for what's to come for Kill Team!!

So, just got the Killteam dice, and symbols on both 1's AND 6's just seems a bit too much and too confusing when some dice have 1's and some dice have 6's but I'll manage.

But what do we do with the d10? It seems theyre only used for the fun rando background charts, and with them, the Skull is on the one and the 10 is a zero...

Now I never really cared if the design was on the Ones. I use the GW skull dice as wound counters for that exact reason, when I see that skull, i know hes one wound from death. But these dice are just all over...

I only use d10 for casualty chart in campaign.

After playing some games of KT, I feel like I can say height is a huge factor.
It enables a model to see nearly every model on the board, guard every objective, be out of reach of melee, and often obscured or just not visible.
A high model with a good gun (not something every team has or has an answer to) is generally a deciding factor in games.
While it's totally fine for casual games, I can wholly understand why the limitation is there for competitive games, as melee is already severely affected by the ruleset and preponderance of Flamers.
Will have to try it out, but it seems like a positive change at first glance.

Arbitrary height restrictions are just that - arbitrary.

Removing an further element of manoeuvre and positioning from the game is dumb.

If you handwriting is a little bigger:
http://design-minion.com/KillTeam_TeamSheet.pdf

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Arbitrary height restrictions are just that - arbitrary.

Removing an further element of manoeuvre and positioning from the game is dumb.

Have you played the game? I'm just curious, since my groups already realized that height advantages are deciding games. I'm not sure how long its going to take others to realize how stupid simple it is. Most armies can pull it off, but those that can't have no answer to it.
This makes the height changes not arbitrary. They would be if they had no effect/purpose, but they're clearly being put into the format to stop camping, which IS a problem in this game. For a lot of teams, its too easy to get around the obscurement and half-range modifiers. Limiting the field of deployment makes the game much more fair.
That's very much the opposite of arbitrary.
Imagine Reivers just dropping and rising to the top/bottom floor of a 6" tall building every time they get charged or fall back. It's the very definition of unfun.
2" is plenty tall - that's enough to gain a significant LOS advantage, once you figure your mini adds another inch or so.
At the same time, melee can reach you without having to roll a 10+ only for you to fall back another 3".


But I'd wager 2" probably doesn't cover much of GW's terrain, so these rules may not get used widely.

I'd support a 2" limit if the terrain included was like a plastic 40k version of Zone Mortalis and the game was explicitly about tunnel fighting.

If 3d terrain that comes with the game ruins the game play, then something went really wrong here. Like it didn't have enough playtesting or the rules really weren't that important to the product as it's about pushing terrain kits with the idea of a functional game rather than actually providing one.

It's specifically in a tournament pack. So it's perfectly possible that other rules in that pack, say the four turn limit, necessitated a limit on going high.

If the tournament pack is what's required to really make the game function, then that should have been the starting point in the game itself. The terrain should probably not be 5" high if the game only truly works when you max it out at 2". A 40k zone mortalis type terrain set and then rules like this tournament pack assuming a ceiling would be a great way to have the rules and terrain work together.

Is Neronoxx correct in the assessment that high advantage can be totally game deciding? If it is, then well, this games got problems given the terrain that comes right in the core box wrecks the game.

I could totally see though that things get even more wonky if you can scale up super high but there's not enough turns for an opponent to deal with your elevated model in a tournament game that must end after four rounds.

This is certainly not a good sign though, that the very first thing that happens to make the game be the "tight" and "competitive" rules set they talked about on the community site is to basically ban going up on top of the terrain that comes with the game, add fundamentally shorter turns and so on. Neronoxx's reports about the importance of high ground are also very troubling.

Who said it was needed to make it function?

Do terrain like necromunda had with walkways etc. Then guy up has no easy visbility. Los blocking is not just 2d either.


Also if guy at up sees you so do you.

Played a couple of games on Thursday which were ok - nothing special but ok.

Height was important - as there is no restrictions on objective placement you can put it high and then depending on the mission garrison it.

Height for shooting was less important as we had a lot of scatter terrain and different levels - much more than say is shown in the game box.

However despite this terrain density we had little close combat - shooting - especially flamers doing all the work really.

We had quite a few 3+ BS shooters ( I was using the marine rules as Sisters since GW could not be bothered to put their rules in) and so still hitting on 4+ a lot of the time - better if you have a comms specialist or sniper.

The somewhat odd initiative system does mean that Winning Initiative" is really only good if you are in charge range. Otherwise its a bad thing. I don't understand why you can't choose to go second if you "win" the roll?

Still lot of niggles for me in the game.

 Symbio Joe wrote:
If you handwriting is a little bigger:
http://design-minion.com/KillTeam_TeamSheet.pdf

Cheers for that! Also a lot more printer friendly!

The 2" height thing is a bit odd. Do they just mean during deployment placement?

Isn't the first level of the terrain in the box higher than 2"? When the tournament organisers put together their terrain they might as well not bother with the upper floor sections.

 BrookM wrote:
All we know for now is that Dark Eldar, Necrons and a Death World Kill Zone are still on the way, along with themed dice for them.

Was there information found somewhere that told you or is this just assumed/educated speculation?

 skoffs wrote:

 BrookM wrote:
All we know for now is that Dark Eldar, Necrons and a Death World Kill Zone are still on the way, along with themed dice for them.

Was there information found somewhere that told you or is this just assumed/educated speculation?

Aside from it being mentioned somewhere before, maybe here but now buried deep, the core rulebook features nice new art of some of the various specialists of certain races, all of whom coincidentally have their own starter boxed set / starter set booklet.

Only ones with fancy new art and no starters yet are Dark Eldar and Necrons. The Dark Eldar team is depicted as being in the death world forest, complete with overgrown Eldar ruin in the background.

And before we say it, Scions get no fancy art in the core rulebook, but do have a starter of their own.

The information actually comes from an advertisement in a GW store where they had a 'Check out Kill Team!' pamphlet and on the back of that pamphlet it had a list of where to find all of the different kits that you could get in Kill Team and how to purchase them.

On this list they had such things as 'Aberrants' being only available in Overkill, but they also had starter boxes for Tau, Necron, Drukhari, and Deathwatch listed with their kill team names (like Writhing Shadow for Tyranids).

In that list it had:

Necron - Immortals/Deathmarks
Tau - Breachers/Fire Warriors(I think)
Drukhari - Wyches
Deathwatch - Deathwatch Veterans

So we know that those are the next 4 starter sets that are coming, however the list must not look out very far because we know that Aberrants are coming too since we've seen new ones in a recent GW teaser.

Expect these next 4 starter sets very shortly.

Vorian wrote:
Who said it was needed to make it function?

Just going off what people are reporting about the importance of vertical height and the fact that GW opened up with an organized play document that banned putting your miniatures on an elevation over 2" Is Neronoxx's take on the importance of height wrong? If so, why did GW seek to put such a restriction in for this first organized play pack?

In a campaign is a reiver who has taken some shooting skills going to grapnel hook his way to a good vantage point and dominate the game? Is it going to become being about each time trying their best to develop a vertical capable shooting expert and the teams that can't just being out of luck?

Is it the turn 4 thing where if you put an objective high enough and defend it reasonable, 4 turns is just never enough time to take it? Or is there more to it than that? Do things really break down when you put good shooting units 5" up so they can see lots?

Does the game require loads more scatter terrain so that if you go up in elevation the combination of the angle and scatter terrain will mean you see way less?

The reduced game length is definitely a factor and the unfortunately limited terrain that is standard at tournaments is also a factor.

Combining the two of those makes it an issue, I think.

You're taking an event pack, which is a specific set of rules, and applying it to the core game.

The ban on going up is specifically for that pack and so says nothing about the core game because it doesn't apply there.

I imagine it will be like Necromunda and benefit from lots of terrain no matter how you're playing it though.

 BrookM wrote:

 skoffs wrote:

 BrookM wrote:
All we know for now is that Dark Eldar, Necrons and a Death World Kill Zone are still on the way, along with themed dice for them.

Was there information found somewhere that told you or is this just assumed/educated speculation?

Aside from it being mentioned somewhere before, maybe here but now buried deep, the core rulebook features nice new art of some of the various specialists of certain races, all of whom coincidentally have their own starter boxed set / starter set booklet.

Only ones with fancy new art and no starters yet are Dark Eldar and Necrons. The Dark Eldar team is depicted as being in the death world forest, complete with overgrown Eldar ruin in the background.

And before we say it, Scions get no fancy art in the core rulebook, but do have a starter of their own.

So far we've had releases in order of the faction focus which would make dark eldar and deathwatch next, both of whom are pictured in the deathworld forest killzone (which is also shown in the kill zone section of the trailer).

The next factions would be Harlequins, Tau and Necrons - Tau and Necrons are shown in a trenches kill zone in the faction focus.

Vorian wrote:
You're taking an event pack, which is a specific set of rules, and applying it to the core game.

Right, which is what an event pack does. It identifies things in the core game that need changing for the game to work for the event.

The ban on going up is specifically for that pack and so says nothing about the core game because it doesn't apply there.

It says that there's something about vertical movement in the core game that will make the event fail if they allow it. Or they're wrong and they made an event back with a totally needless restriction.

Banning climbing on upper floors is totally crazy. If the game cannot handle people using the terrain that is sold with it, it is an utter failure.

Not that I really believe that vertical movement is an issue, it is just movement. If you want some restrictions then allowing objective placement only on the ground level might be a sane one.

 Crimson wrote:
Banning climbing on upper floors is totally crazy. If the game cannot handle people using the terrain that is sold with it, it is an utter failure.

Not that I really believe that vertical movement is an issue, it is just movement. If you want some restrictions then allowing objective placement only on the ground level might be a sane one.

Maybe its an issue with the event itself not having much terrain? Allowing objective up high and having a even smaller number of turns than usual would not work so that might be the reason?

I think the 4 turn limit and potentially having to cross the table and climb a high ruin might be more likely contributing factors to the 2” rule rather than some grand conspiracy that the game is innately broken by the very terrain it’s packaged with...

And these terrain rules are NOVA only, unless someone has already had a chance to go through the GW produced event packs.

I don't get it. How is being up higher a benefit? I haven't got to play yet so I don't know or understand.

It is probably a benefit more for shooty armies than close combat armies?

Can you charge 'up' a level in killteam?

It could well be to prevent CC minis having to move to the base of a structure (and get shot), then take a second move to get up it (and get shot again) as they can't pause half way up a wall?