Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Purifying Tempest wrote:

 Crimson wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:


Why would anyone including my Dark Eldar get to use more than 3 detachments in normal games?

Because that's the rules for normal games.

We've scoured the rulebook, again, and only found the suggestion. Please quote for me where this is a rule.

If you're talking about local houserules and 3rd party tournament rules, go ahead.

The only rule we've found is the bit about "an army can contain any number of detachments", which seems right there to spit in the face of everyone saying DE can only take 3.

Again, we shall see in May when GW has the finals for their GT. They use the 3 detachment limit aswell.
My bet is on DE not getting an exception in the rulepack.

Purifying Tempest wrote:

 Crimson wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:


Why would anyone including my Dark Eldar get to use more than 3 detachments in normal games?

Because that's the rules for normal games.

We've scoured the rulebook, again, and only found the suggestion. Please quote for me where this is a rule.

If you're talking about local houserules and 3rd party tournament rules, go ahead.

The only rule we've found is the bit about "an army can contain any number of detachments", which seems right there to spit in the face of everyone saying DE can only take 3.

That’s my point. The rule is that in normal game you can have any number of detachments.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Ordana wrote:
Again, we shall see in May when GW has the finals for their GT. They use the 3 detachment limit aswell.
My bet is on DE not getting an exception in the rulepack.

Grand Tournament is not a 'normal game.'

It's a little strange to me that people are so reluctant to allow Dark Eldar to work the way they're clearly supposed to work. Like, a "3 DE Patrols only take up one detachment 'slot'" rule doesn't actually make Eldar soup much stronger, right? What it does is promote more than just a token DE presence. Everyone agrees that as-is you can bring a single DE Patrol to unlock Agents of Vect. Everyone agrees that you can bring a cheap Battalion to generate CPs about as efficiently as the 3 Patrols do (DE HQs are not cheap). The benefit to players here is really just that you can include more than a single kind of DE HQ or Troop without rapidly using up your detachment allowance -- the point is not to punish a player for not spamming a very small number of units. Right? I mean, probably you only prefer 3 Patrols to a Battalion if you actually have a use for both an Archon and a Haemonculus and both Warriors and Wracks. I'm not sure anyone wants to pay for an extra Archon just to get 1 CP.

It does quiet a bit actually as you would actually become a cheaper CP farm than a guard brigade. But its only 8 CP instead of 9 but that extra cp will coat another 78points when IG become 5ppm

Guard battalion is slightly cheaper than the 3 patrols but only generates 3 CP not 4 that the 3 patrols does not to mention you can still bring ynarri soulburst and alitoc factions which arn't exactlly struggling to build competitive lists. But an extra 4 cp for sub 300 points and agents of vect, you can bet that would be a stable of eldar soup

Ice_can wrote:
It does quiet a bit actually as you would actually become a cheaper CP farm than a guard brigade. But its only 8 CP instead of 9 but that extra cp will coat another 78points when IG become 5ppm

Guard battalion is slightly cheaper than the 3 patrols but only generates 3 CP not 4 that the 3 patrols does not to mention you can still bring ynarri soulburst and alitoc factions which arn't exactlly struggling to build competitive lists. But an extra 4 cp for sub 300 points and agents of vect, you can bet that would be a stable of eldar soup

Again, what you're saying here is that it is overpowered to be able to pay 70 points for an Archon and 1 CP. Because otherwise you can already do exactly this with Battalions instead of Patrols. Do you actually think people would make that trade?

The Guard Battalion is also not "slightly cheaper". It is less than 2/3 the price, would be significantly cheaper even with (purely hypothetical!) 5 ppm Infantry, and has the option to upgrade one of the (very useful) Company Commanders to a (very useful) Primaris Psyker. Also it comes with Kurov's Aquila which is easily worth the 1 CP difference by itself.

Edit: Like, the worst-case scenario here is that instead of just bringing 2 Archons and 3 units of Warriors for ~230 points and 3 CP, you instead bring 2 Archons, 2 units of Warriors, 1 Haemonculus, and 1 unit of Wracks for ~320 points and then use a 1 CP stratagem to give the Haemonculus the warlord trait that gives you d3 more CP, for an average of 5 CP. That's still only a small improvement in CP per point and is still less efficient than a Guard Battalion, and now you've got to figure out what to do with a Haemonculus and a unit of Wracks.

I dont understand what you mean by an archon and a cp for 70 points.

A dark eldar battalion is 18 points more than a guard battalion. Ao not like your hurting for ways to get cheap CP.

DE can bring brigades quite easily. The only issue is do they have a competitive unit in each slot?

HQ - not great (we don't know a lot yet about how good they are though)
troops - excellent (cheap)
elites - excellent (core units)
fast attack - excellent(lots of good options now - 3 man bikes?)
Heavy - excellent(ravagers or min sqourge units)

I am really not seeing why people don't think DE will bringe brigade. The only reason they wouldn't bring it is to bring multiple patrols if that was a better option. Seeing how their weak spot is HQ though - I really doubt patrols will work.

So - your best strategem is not going off vs DE. Just accept it. There is even a chance you might have to still pay for it. Hopefully - they will fix this cross codex nonsense with stratgems so we only have to worry about this when playing against DE and not also vs ynnari/craftworlds.

I think the point is that for 9 CP to make a Guard Brigade the cost is X (like 1000 or something), to make a DE 6 patrol match to get 8 CP it costs them 6x70 archons and 6x30 Kabalites.

That is all naked, so like 600 points for 8 CP.

But apparently, there is something broken about paying 1000 points for 9 CP, Imperium players think guard are the only ones allowed to do it.

Edit: Math in the AM is rough.

Edit Edit: Also, with that Guard Brigade, you get A LOT OF STUFF. That Dark Eldar patrol spam is 6 archons and 30 Kabalites, hardly game-winning.

Purifying Tempest wrote:
I think the point is that for 9 CP to make a Guard Brigade the cost is X (like 1000 or something), to make a DE 6 patrol match to get 8 CP it costs them 6x70 archons and 6x30 Kabalites.

That is all naked, so like 600 points for 8 CP.

But apparently, there is something broken about paying 1000 points for 9 CP, Imperium players think guard are the only ones allowed to do it.

Edit: Math in the AM is rough.

Edit Edit: Also, with that Guard Battalion, you get A LOT OF STUFF. That Dark Eldar patrol spam is 6 archons and 30 Kabalites, hardly game-winning.

Guard can bring a brigade for around 400 points. What's really silly is they can do it by bringing nothing but their best units.

 Eihnlazer wrote:
Dark elder get to use patrol detachments for CP unlike other armies yet they don't have to do so. They can take 2 battalions or a brigade just like anyone else for 9+ CP.

They will be fine without their 6 patrols.

And then no trait for that brigade.

Also: reading the wording on their Patrol detachment ability, they get +4 CP for AT LEAST 3 Patrols, and +8 CP for AT LEAST 6 Patrols.

That means they cannot keep spamming it. If they bring 12 Patrols they only get +8 CP.

So matched play, if they want to hammer CP, they need to now invest in Battalions to continue getting CP after 11 (8+3).

Again, this is not game shattering... especially for a faction with no psychic powers.

tneva82 wrote:

 Eihnlazer wrote:
Dark elder get to use patrol detachments for CP unlike other armies yet they don't have to do so. They can take 2 battalions or a brigade just like anyone else for 9+ CP.

They will be fine without their 6 patrols.

And then no trait for that brigade.

No additional warlord trait you mean? Remains to be seen if that even matters - though if it does - you can still do brigade plus 2 patrols or 2 battalions if you really want.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Purifying Tempest wrote:
Also: reading the wording on their Patrol detachment ability, they get +4 CP for AT LEAST 3 Patrols, and +8 CP for AT LEAST 6 Patrols.

That means they cannot keep spamming it. If they bring 12 Patrols they only get +8 CP.

So matched play, if they want to hammer CP, they need to now invest in Battalions to continue getting CP after 11 (8+3).

Again, this is not game shattering... especially for a faction with no psychic powers.

No one is saying it is game shattering. People are just trying to dispel this notion that DE wont be able to play this stratagem 3+ times in a game. They are wrong - DE will be capable of shutting a stratagem down. ALL GAME.

tneva82 wrote:

 Eihnlazer wrote:
Dark elder get to use patrol detachments for CP unlike other armies yet they don't have to do so. They can take 2 battalions or a brigade just like anyone else for 9+ CP.

They will be fine without their 6 patrols.

And then no trait for that brigade.

Except for their covens being all deoptimized for that "choice"

You know, the whole core of their codex?

No the chapter trait equilavent. They don't have same keyword for all slots so it would be like mixing marines and ig. No chapter bonus etc.

Just settle for 3 patrols or battallions

Ice_can wrote:
I dont understand what you mean by an archon and a cp for 70 points.

A dark eldar battalion is 18 points more than a guard battalion. Ao not like your hurting for ways to get cheap CP.

I'm making explicit the trade-off that you're claiming is overpowered. You're obscuring what's actually going on by making all kinds of comparisons to different things. Like, in your last post you started out by talking DE Patrols being more point-efficient sources of CP than a Guard brigade, ignoring that nobody thinks that brigades are a particularly point-efficient source of CP. Then you start comparing the 3 DE Patrols to a Guard Battalion (incorrectly saying that the Battalion is only slightly cheaper) and talking as if the 3 Patrols alongside Alatoic and Ynnari detachments would be too much.

I'm pointing out that you're not grappling with the trade-off the Eldar player would actually have to make here. Even with a firm 3 detachment limit the Eldar player can obviously bring the Alatoic and Ynnari detachments and then a 3 CP DE Battalion. If you instead adopt a rule that lets 3 DE Patrols only use up one 'slot', then the trade-off is still not "do I take this DE detachment or a Guard Brigade?" Obviously, right? The decision to be made is: "do I take a DE Battalion or 3 DE Patrols?"

The main difference between a Battalion and 3 Patrols is that the Patrols get 1 more CP and require 1 more HQ. So that's the question you have to ask: "do I want to pay 70 points and get an HQ and 1 CP?" I feel like most lists aren't willing to do that. You do it if you actually want to bring a variety of DE units rather than just Archons and Warriors, but in that case you're not just bringing them for the CP.

 Xenomancers wrote:

Again, this is not game shattering... especially for a faction with no psychic powers.

No one is saying it is game shattering. People are just trying to dispel this notion that DE wont be able to play this stratagem 3+ times in a game. They are wrong - DE will be capable of shutting a stratagem down. ALL GAME.

 Xenomancers wrote:

tneva82 wrote:

 Eihnlazer wrote:
Dark elder get to use patrol detachments for CP unlike other armies yet they don't have to do so. They can take 2 battalions or a brigade just like anyone else for 9+ CP.

They will be fine without their 6 patrols.

And then no trait for that brigade.

No additional warlord trait you mean? Remains to be seen if that even matters - though if it does - you can still do brigade plus 2 patrols or 2 battalions if you really want.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Purifying Tempest wrote:
Also: reading the wording on their Patrol detachment ability, they get +4 CP for AT LEAST 3 Patrols, and +8 CP for AT LEAST 6 Patrols.

That means they cannot keep spamming it. If they bring 12 Patrols they only get +8 CP.

So matched play, if they want to hammer CP, they need to now invest in Battalions to continue getting CP after 11 (8+3).

Again, this is not game shattering... especially for a faction with no psychic powers.

No one is saying it is game shattering. People are just trying to dispel this notion that DE wont be able to play this stratagem 3+ times in a game. They are wrong - DE will be capable of shutting a stratagem down. ALL GAME.

AND? If they're spending all their CP on Agents of Vect... guess what they're NOT spending their CP on?

So...

No one gets stratagems for the game in your hyperbolic world?

Also, this can only be used once per phase. You can use other stratagems in the same phase. So you are still advantaged by getting command rerolls and other codex stratagems AFTER they've used Vect on your "I win" button.

Random amusing thought: Playing with an opponent that agrees you can use the Reroll Stratagem on the Most Important Rule, then using Agents of Vect.

Vect is such a magnificent bastard that his spies can break the 4th Wall.

Purifying Tempest wrote:

 Crimson wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:


Why would anyone including my Dark Eldar get to use more than 3 detachments in normal games?

Because that's the rules for normal games.

We've scoured the rulebook, again, and only found the suggestion. Please quote for me where this is a rule.

If you're talking about local houserules and 3rd party tournament rules, go ahead.

The only rule we've found is the bit about "an army can contain any number of detachments", which seems right there to spit in the face of everyone saying DE can only take 3.

I don't have to quote anything to anyone The majority of people in clubs and tournaments use the suggested max number of detachments that is in the rules. Its a House Rule but a GW suggested one.

If your group is happy to play the rules straight that's also cool.

3CP is a lot but I can def see when it might be worth it - if you have that many CP left at a given moment - eg I have had to re-roll before to get St C to resurrect.

tneva82 wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:

Again, this is not game shattering... especially for a faction with no psychic powers.

No one is saying it is game shattering. People are just trying to dispel this notion that DE wont be able to play this stratagem 3+ times in a game. They are wrong - DE will be capable of shutting a stratagem down. ALL GAME.

Nah cp is going to be low or they lose their chapter trait EQUILavent. Brigades no trait, battalions big hq tax, 3 patrols 7 cp and no allies

 Mr Morden wrote:

Purifying Tempest wrote:

 Crimson wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:


Why would anyone including my Dark Eldar get to use more than 3 detachments in normal games?

Because that's the rules for normal games.

We've scoured the rulebook, again, and only found the suggestion. Please quote for me where this is a rule.

If you're talking about local houserules and 3rd party tournament rules, go ahead.

The only rule we've found is the bit about "an army can contain any number of detachments", which seems right there to spit in the face of everyone saying DE can only take 3.

I don't have to quote anything to anyone The majority of people in clubs and tournaments use the suggested max number of detachments that is in the rules. Its a House Rule but a GW suggested one.

If your group is happy to play the rules straight that's also cool.

3CP is a lot but I can def see when it might be worth it - if you have that many CP left at a given moment - eg I have had to re-roll before to get St C to resurrect.

The point I've been trying to hammer home is that this rule is not based off of a rule, thus needs to be examined hard as the intention is for Dark Eldar to bring in the 4-5 detachment range, if not something upwards of 7. They have the rules and the mechanics to support it for something outside of I want to drop 500 points in Guard for 9 CP in my Ultramarine army.

In Dark Eldar's case, the "suggestion" in the base rulebook is just narrowly restrictive to the faction, and if it is not called out for what it is, people will continue to force Dark Eldar into that archiac restriction. Dark Eldar will not be able to mechanically perform as GW intended them to with Covens and Patrols because they're forced into Battalions. Bringing issue to it now allows time for the discussion to happen outside of "the rule is 3!!!!" Because if "the rule is 3!!!!" stands, then DE are gimped right from the deployment of their codex, and no one will have the flexibility to say: you know, maybe we should let them try to do the patrol spam and let's see how bad it is before we slam them with a generalized rule.

This is kind of in the same ballpark as: Hive Tyrants are OP, so let's fix it by limiting all HQs in all armies to 1 per detachment. It fixes the "problem" with one faction in the most destructive way to a lot of other factions.

Purifying Tempest wrote:

The point I've been trying to hammer home is that this rule is not based off of a rule, thus needs to be examined hard as the intention is for Dark Eldar to bring in the 4-5 detachment range, if not something upwards of 7. They have the rules and the mechanics to support it for something outside of I want to drop 500 points in Guard for 9 CP in my Ultramarine army.

In Dark Eldar's case, the "suggestion" in the base rulebook is just narrowly restrictive to the faction, and if it is not called out for what it is, people will continue to force Dark Eldar into that archiac restriction. Dark Eldar will not be able to mechanically perform as GW intended them to with Covens and Patrols because they're forced into Battalions. Bringing issue to it now allows time for the discussion to happen outside of "the rule is 3!!!!" Because if "the rule is 3!!!!" stands, then DE are gimped right from the deployment of their codex, and no one will have the flexibility to say: you know, maybe we should let them try to do the patrol spam and let's see how bad it is before we slam them with a generalized rule.

This is kind of in the same ballpark as: Hive Tyrants are OP, so let's fix it by limiting all HQs in all armies to 1 per detachment. It fixes the "problem" with one faction in the most destructive way to a lot of other factions.

Not any more than other factions. But sure if you are happy to face effective 30 plus cp imperium soup feel free.

Or maybe general lack of cp's is designed feature to put limit on this cp...as if one had lots of cp's there would be entire armies that might just as welj not bother to deploy vs de.

The whole 3 detachment limit is stupid. It serves one purpose, to stop guard gaining insane amount of CP. Why not fix the actual problem, the Guard's too effective CP generation, instead of forcing lame restriction on other armies?

tneva82 wrote:

Purifying Tempest wrote:

The point I've been trying to hammer home is that this rule is not based off of a rule, thus needs to be examined hard as the intention is for Dark Eldar to bring in the 4-5 detachment range, if not something upwards of 7. They have the rules and the mechanics to support it for something outside of I want to drop 500 points in Guard for 9 CP in my Ultramarine army.

In Dark Eldar's case, the "suggestion" in the base rulebook is just narrowly restrictive to the faction, and if it is not called out for what it is, people will continue to force Dark Eldar into that archiac restriction. Dark Eldar will not be able to mechanically perform as GW intended them to with Covens and Patrols because they're forced into Battalions. Bringing issue to it now allows time for the discussion to happen outside of "the rule is 3!!!!" Because if "the rule is 3!!!!" stands, then DE are gimped right from the deployment of their codex, and no one will have the flexibility to say: you know, maybe we should let them try to do the patrol spam and let's see how bad it is before we slam them with a generalized rule.

This is kind of in the same ballpark as: Hive Tyrants are OP, so let's fix it by limiting all HQs in all armies to 1 per detachment. It fixes the "problem" with one faction in the most destructive way to a lot of other factions.

Not any more than other factions. But sure if you are happy to face effective 30 plus cp imperium soup feel free.

Or maybe general lack of cp's is designed feature to put limit on this cp...as if one had lots of cp's there would be entire armies that might just as welj not bother to deploy vs de.

30 CP? Really? Exaggerating now?

How many points are you going to dedicate to farming CP? 30 CP is what? 9 BNs? 3 BDEs? A BN for guard is what? 200 points? x 9 = 1800 points. A BDE is 500? x 3 = 1500 points?

What real threats can you present with 200-500 points in a 2000 point game? And, sure, you have 30 CP, but it isn't like Guard alone have game shattering stratagems.

CP have always been a trade of crap models for stratagems. If you want a lot of them, you get exactly what you deserve: a field that's going to get trashed by any decent army.

Edit: funny... 3 BDEs, what stops Guard from doing it now?

I don't know how people say Dark Eldar will have CP problems.

You know that not everyone is Eldar or Imperial Guard playing with brigades and 12-15 CP's everygame.

Most armies out here start the game with 7-8 CP, with a batallion+other detachment (Vanguard, Outrider, etc...)

Dark Eldar start the game with 7 CP if they do 3 patrols and with the 1-3 CP Hoemunculus warlord trait then can start with even more without a problem, and then they can regain even more CP with the Black Heart warlord trait. And with the 1 CP for three warlords traits they can start with both of them.

My Dark Angel lists never has more than 8 CP, 3 for battle forge, 3 for a Batallion, +1 for Vanguard, +1 for Azrael.

If everyone could spam 12-15 CP, whats the point of CP? You should suffer to use stratagems, every one should be a relevant decision.

EDIT: And I'm not saying this like "OMG DARK ELDAR OP INFINTIE CP AGENTS OF VECT LITERALLY NO COUNTERPLAY", but that they are in a better position in relation with CP than literally any other army that is not Craftworld Eldar or Imperial Guard.

And yeah, Dark Eldar can bring a Brigade and two patrols without much of a problem, if they want to have three different factions. Or even two batallions and a patrol.

Different factions are balanced around access to CP, though.

Space Marines are not expected to sport 12-15 CPs, they simply would be choked with units generating CP and not many effective units.

Potency of Stratagems and availability of Force Multipliers go into the equation for balancing CP.

Guard can get a lot of CP, but their Stratagems are decent (not omg awesome!). Blood Angels have some potent stratagems, but their access to those CP are far more restrictive than guard. This is all discounting the affect of souping factions like IG for CP into things like Blood Angels.

Dark Eldar have no psychic phase, so some of that is going to have to be carried by stratagems. Which means CP are likely going to be more valuable to them to compete against armies that can generate a lot of power in that phase (DE neither has psychic buffs, nor access to a lot of counters to those buffs from other armies).

Saying that 1 CP is worth the same to a Guard Player as to a Blood Angel player may be a bit disingenuous. The factions weight CP (per point and max) differently.

Except that argument as you admit falls appart when the mass soup became normal.

The way I view the patrols generating CP was to give dark eldar away to avoid the troops and HQ tax that would come from double battalion without taking the CP hammering of using vanguard, spearhead etc.

And it does have to be considered as to how powerful allowing any army containing dark eldar including soup to ignore the detachment limitations.

Solo dark eldar are probably ok, but nothing in any cidex so far has indicated that GW tests soup builds when writing a codex.
Throwing out the one accepted rule that atleast limits soup just because " the intention is for Dark Eldar to bring in the 4-5 detachment range, if not something upwards of 7" . The minuit the rule is broken for dark eldar, eldar soup will want the same treatment. Once eldar soup has unlimited detachments how do you justify every other faction having a limitation that eldar can ignore.
It ends in a free for all that punishes non soup factions to insane levels.

Soup is a totally different argument.

I dislike soup because the outcome becomes: balance based on soup.

Also, I've always hated that armies that are not imperium, chaos, or elves get shafted so hard by this new allies matrix. But arguing to balance dark eldar because of craftworlds makes even less sense.

Purifying Tempest wrote:
Different factions are balanced around access to CP, though.

Space Marines are not expected to sport 12-15 CPs, they simply would be choked with units generating CP and not many effective units.

Potency of Stratagems and availability of Force Multipliers go into the equation for balancing CP.

Guard can get a lot of CP, but their Stratagems are decent (not omg awesome!). Blood Angels have some potent stratagems, but their access to those CP are far more restrictive than guard. This is all discounting the affect of souping factions like IG for CP into things like Blood Angels.

Dark Eldar have no psychic phase, so some of that is going to have to be carried by stratagems. Which means CP are likely going to be more valuable to them to compete against armies that can generate a lot of power in that phase (DE neither has psychic buffs, nor access to a lot of counters to those buffs from other armies).

Saying that 1 CP is worth the same to a Guard Player as to a Blood Angel player may be a bit disingenuous. The factions weight CP (per point and max) differently.

Except there is no indication that this is how it works. Space Marines for example are bad at generating CP, and their stratagems are expensive and mostly suck.

 Crimson wrote:
The whole 3 detachment limit is stupid. It serves one purpose, to stop guard gaining insane amount of CP. Why not fix the actual problem, the Guard's too effective CP generation, instead of forcing lame restriction on other armies?

Guard isn't only issue. This strategem would be too good as well if de had easy way to get cp's.

But guess you aren't interested in balanced games


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Purifying Tempest wrote:

tneva82 wrote:

Purifying Tempest wrote:

The point I've been trying to hammer home is that this rule is not based off of a rule, thus needs to be examined hard as the intention is for Dark Eldar to bring in the 4-5 detachment range, if not something upwards of 7. They have the rules and the mechanics to support it for something outside of I want to drop 500 points in Guard for 9 CP in my Ultramarine army.

In Dark Eldar's case, the "suggestion" in the base rulebook is just narrowly restrictive to the faction, and if it is not called out for what it is, people will continue to force Dark Eldar into that archiac restriction. Dark Eldar will not be able to mechanically perform as GW intended them to with Covens and Patrols because they're forced into Battalions. Bringing issue to it now allows time for the discussion to happen outside of "the rule is 3!!!!" Because if "the rule is 3!!!!" stands, then DE are gimped right from the deployment of their codex, and no one will have the flexibility to say: you know, maybe we should let them try to do the patrol spam and let's see how bad it is before we slam them with a generalized rule.

This is kind of in the same ballpark as: Hive Tyrants are OP, so let's fix it by limiting all HQs in all armies to 1 per detachment. It fixes the "problem" with one faction in the most destructive way to a lot of other factions.

Not any more than other factions. But sure if you are happy to face effective 30 plus cp imperium soup feel free.

Or maybe general lack of cp's is designed feature to put limit on this cp...as if one had lots of cp's there would be entire armies that might just as welj not bother to deploy vs de.

30 CP? Really? Exaggerating now?

How many points are you going to dedicate to farming CP? 30 CP is what? 9 BNs? 3 BDEs? A BN for guard is what? 200 points? x 9 = 1800 points. A BDE is 500? x 3 = 1500 points?

What real threats can you present with 200-500 points in a 2000 point game? And, sure, you have 30 CP, but it isn't like Guard alone have game shattering stratagems.

CP have always been a trade of crap models for stratagems. If you want a lot of them, you get exactly what you deserve: a field that's going to get trashed by any decent army.

Edit: funny... 3 BDEs, what stops Guard from doing it now?

Nah for about 1000 pts you get 18 cp fos guard of which third regenerates. Thus 24. Add in 5+ chance to get from opponents plus 3 from say marines and another regenerate. 27. Plus some regenerated ones wil' regenerate. 30 is easy. Even without getting more from enemy strategems

And what stops? Can't take 5 guard battalions plus ally battalion(s).