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I didn't say his martial arts or his detective skills I said his intellect. His raw intelligence. Give me a reason why the only people on the planet more intelligent then him are meta humans with enhanced intelligence or have something wrong with them to make them smarter. And even THOSE people are less intelligent than him the vast majority of the time. Or, we could keep talking about starwars.
The issue here, for me, is that raw intelligence is not something I need to have explained. Some people are just born with intellectual gifts that dwarf the common man, it happens in the world and we have many great thinkers throughout history to prove it. I have no problem that Batman was born an extremely intelligent person who then worked himself up to master detective after years of studying and practising his craft. Rey's spontaneous proficiency with the Force is absolutely something that I need to have explained, because it runs so contrary to the established rules of the Star Wars universe. Luke was Force sensitive his entire life but that sensitivity manifested itself in very subtle ways, like being able to bullseye native life on Tatooine in his skyhopper. It wasn't until he actually started working at it with Obi-Wan that he was able to do anything that would qualify as space magic.
Rey? Completely throws all that out of the window. She not only resists but actually reverses a mind probe, beats Kylo Ren after she was thrown hard enough into a tree to be knocked out, flys the Falcon better than Han, etc. Sure, Luke manages to fly an X-wing, but he at least had some experience flying in his T-16. Rey is depicted as a homeless scavenger who scrounges parts all day just to get her next meal, when the flying feth would she possibly have learned to be a pilot? And a pilot that's that good? Everything about Rey just flies in the face of the Star Wars universe, which is a huge reason why I really dislike the sequel trilogy. It's fine if they want to make her powerful, but they need to make her earn it.
Except luke says i have only seen this raw power once before.
These are my opinions. This is how I feel. Others may feel differently. This needs to be stated for some reason.
I didn't say his martial arts or his detective skills I said his intellect. His raw intelligence. Give me a reason why the only people on the planet more intelligent then him are meta humans with enhanced intelligence or have something wrong with them to make them smarter. And even THOSE people are less intelligent than him the vast majority of the time. Or, we could keep talking about starwars.
The issue here, for me, is that raw intelligence is not something I need to have explained. Some people are just born with intellectual gifts that dwarf the common man, it happens in the world and we have many great thinkers throughout history to prove it. I have no problem that Batman was born an extremely intelligent person who then worked himself up to master detective after years of studying and practising his craft. Rey's spontaneous proficiency with the Force is absolutely something that I need to have explained, because it runs so contrary to the established rules of the Star Wars universe. Luke was Force sensitive his entire life but that sensitivity manifested itself in very subtle ways, like being able to bullseye native life on Tatooine in his skyhopper. It wasn't until he actually started working at it with Obi-Wan that he was able to do anything that would qualify as space magic.
Rey? Completely throws all that out of the window. She not only resists but actually reverses a mind probe, beats Kylo Ren after she was thrown hard enough into a tree to be knocked out, flys the Falcon better than Han, etc. Sure, Luke manages to fly an X-wing, but he at least had some experience flying in his T-16. Rey is depicted as a homeless scavenger who scrounges parts all day just to get her next meal, when the flying feth would she possibly have learned to be a pilot? And a pilot that's that good? Everything about Rey just flies in the face of the Star Wars universe, which is a huge reason why I really dislike the sequel trilogy. It's fine if they want to make her powerful, but they need to make her earn it.
From Wookiepedia:
Inside the walker, Rey also had a computer display from an old BTL-A4 Y-wing assault starfighter/bomber that she used to learn alien languages, study the schematics of Republic and Imperial starships, and run flight simulations in order to hone her skills as a pilot.
The main differences between Rey and Luke have to do with time. There are obviously ridiculous concepts and conceits that people have a much longer history with, and those that have been recently presented to us.
It makes no sense that even a professional atmospheric stunt pilot -- which Luke is not -- would be able to hop into a space fighter and do what he did at the battle of the Death Star. I *believe* that attempts to iron over this point were made as early as the SW radio show, which IIRC had a scene on Yavin with Luke being tested out in the simulator. And was that in the novelization as well? I'm not sure. But there are many more equivalencies between Rey and Luke than there are differences. It's just that we've had four decades of getting used to the idea of Luke doing those things.
What Luke did? You mean almost get himself killed at the Battle of Yavin?
It was only the Force that let him make the final shot, his squadronmates and Han kept him from getting killed by TIEs, and he almost crashed into the freaking Death Star making a strafing run against some Turbo-laser batteries. Not that impressive really.
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gorgon wrote: It's just that we've had four decades of getting used to the idea of Luke doing those things.
They were also introduced to us when we were younger and less aware of our own limitations and failings. We hadn't yet let life beat us into submission and still generally believe we can do anything we see someone else do.
Scrabb wrote:Yeah, Lance ignored me when I tried to engage him on one of his (many, many) points about the sequel trilogy whilst having plenty of time and energy to trade barbs with that dorito fellow.
He's arguing concurrently that Luke is both a mary sue and unwanted, uninteresting, and incapable.
He also thinks Han hasn't suffered for his criminal past even though he spends rather a lot of screen time hanging on a wall for falling on the wrong side of a gangster's good will so....
idk.
Sorry you fealt ignored. I likely just missed it in my trading barbs with the dorito fellow. That was a lot of fun for me.
No worries. If you post on dakka expecting a response you're gonna have a bad time.
Lukes big strength isn't his fighting ability or his power with the force. He's not super exceptional with either. It's his conviction. He almost looses his gak and starts to go dark giving in to his anger and hate when he takes off vaders arm in RotJ. What makes Luke great is that he then goes right back, throws his lightsaber away and is willing to die right then and there instead of turning. Lukes REAL greatness as a character is his conviction.
*stands and applauds*
That being said, hes equally at fault for all the things people peg on Rey. He learns force powers as he needs them. He's a flat cardboard person in ANH and most of Empire. And until the prequels told us about the prophecy he was just some guy who was strong in the force for no reason. But hey, it's all ok back then and bad now. Why?
and we're back to disagreeing. I don't think either Luke or Rey is a flat character. Luke's "I want to get off this backwards desert planet and explore the galaxy" is more relatable to me than Rey's "I'm waiting for my parents so I can have a sense of belonging."
It's okay back then and not now because it was one thing back then and another thing now.
Luke gets pwned by tusken raiders while Rey does the pwning. The first time anyone is better than her at anything (engineering/melee combat/piloting/using the force/marksmanship) is when she's brought into the presence of the supreme leader of the First Order. This is despite her learning how to use a blaster in a twelve second clip and having zero formal force training. Luke had training before he could move an object. Luke had a lot of training before he was attempting to manipulate minds with the force. They just aren't the same thing.
Also Han was supposed to die at the end of Empire. Fords contract was up and it was the ending he wanted. His part in RotJ was added due to the characters popularity. And no, Han hasn't suffered for his criminal past. Because he didn't learn anything from it. 30 years later hes in another ship being the same kind of criminal.
And this is where you completely lose me. He hasn't suffered is not the same thing as he hasn't learned. Han definitely suffered. And him ending up back as a smuggler is him suffering. Remember, he got settled down. Had a kid. And he failed at that life and was failing at smuggling as well. Don't you remember those gangsters mocking him in TFA?
And you bounce around erratically with your arguments. You post: fan theories, real world studio contract business, the content of the actual movies, and EU canon interchangeably in your arguments depending on which strata agrees most closely with your intended effect.
Anything not actually in these movies cannot legitimately be deployed to defend them.
Scrabb amply demonstrates that trying to justify the inept characterization of Rey by attacking that of Luke just demonstrates that one simply doesn’t recall the OT movies clearly.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/05/24 17:26:11
It makes no sense that even a professional atmospheric stunt pilot -- which Luke is not -- would be able to hop into a space fighter and do what he did at the battle of the Death Star. I *believe* that attempts to iron over this point were made as early as the SW radio show, which IIRC had a scene on Yavin with Luke being tested out in the simulator. And was that in the novelization as well? I'm not sure. But there are many more equivalencies between Rey and Luke than there are differences. It's just that we've had four decades of getting used to the idea of Luke doing those things.
Luke wasn't getting paid to fly his T-16 around, but it's established that he had exceptional skills by the the Beggar's Canyon exchange with Biggs. He also had support from all the other Alliance pilots, the Falcon, and Obi-Wan's force ghost; it isn't like he did it on his own.
Life does not cease to be funny when people die any more than it ceases to be serious when people laugh.
I forgot that important fact: in Luke’s first fight he’s beaten unconscious by sand people, in Rey’s first fight she beats the crap out of several goons and the stormtrooper Finn. That was an early warning sign...
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/05/24 19:11:20
2018/05/24 19:42:03
Subject: Re:Star Wars: The Last Jedi - Reconsidered?
So, to reclairfy my points without triggering the mod again:
In my view this film was awful. Really, really awful. In fact I want the First Order to win, as there is no conceivable way for the Rebels to survive. In fact, lets make that my first point.
The Rebellion is dead. BTFO'd. Gone. They went from the ruling government in the first film to being at war and hurt. By the time this film starts they are losing badly (which does make you wonder how the first order was able to build such a vast fleet in the first place without anyone knowing) and have pretty much become the Rebellion again. But they still have a fl-waitaminute. Yes, they have a fleet. A small one, with only a few Cruisers as their capital ships, and they seem to lack any dedicated carriers. To make matter weirder we later find that the bombers we saw in the opening sequence where the only ones they possess, which means the fighters must also be the only ones, which means that they must have lost the rest of their fighter/bomber reserves. This is not a fighting force now, this is a crippled hound. They are low on ships and on fighter/bombers which means they cannot really fight.
If this was not bad enough we later learn that all of the rebellion is in this fleet, said fleet which then gets mullered by the First Order. By the end of the film the Alliance has gone from having a small but serviceable fleet with a strike complement of small craft and numbers totalling a few thousand to having no capital ships, no small craft, a total of about 100 people at the most and most likely less, and having a single armed freighter. That is it. And to make matters worse nobody cares about them, we where told so in the film, the other planets do not care about the Rebellion at all. They are gone, nothing is left. There is no coming back from this, not without some Writer Fiat.
Next up, the blatant SJW/Tumblr pandering. I mean, can you make this any more obvious. Look at the cast and how 'special' and 'diverse' each one is, and how 'clever' they are shown to be.... Except they are not. Ray mary sues her way through most problems by simply being the best at everything even if other people have been doing whatever it is for decades and she has only just taken it up, the ex-janitor-trooper guy does not really do much except go to find the hacker, and every chance he has at character development is blocked by the chubby asian girl whom seems to have some mental issues going on based on how she acts throughout the film. Admiral Ackbar is unceremoniously killed off and replaced by Admiral Tumblr whom then proceeds to lead the, as someone else dubbed it, Ship of Fools, on one of the stupidest exercises in all of scifi Blackwater naval history, her grand plan being to outrun the First Order Dreadnought (what happened to the rest of that fleet by the way - where they just sitting about twiddling their thumbs or something?) by slowly crawling along at the exact same speed as it, not bothering to use the lighter ships better acceleration profile to try and outmanoeuvre it or run out of range. We are then later told that she is "really clever and a strategic genius" because of her grand plan that even Leia agrees with which is to load all the survivors into the unarmoured unarmed and unshielded transports and send them running to the base whilst praying that the Cruiser keeps the enemy fleet distracted, and they dont bother to check for small vessels running under the radar.
All in all it was the two female characters, Chubby and Tumblr, who got to me the most as the writers had two other perfectly good female characters whom would actually have been better, but they chose to kill them off. The Bomber Gunner whom saw her crew die, but still managed to complete her mission. Getting back to her carrier she would most likely be traumatised and this could lead to a character trying to overcome their fear of void combat and return to the fight, coping with the loss of her friends and the guilt of having survived where they did not, struggling to overcome these in order to help try and save the rebels and prevent her remaining friends from being killed. We also had the A-wing ace, a rival to the male ace and someone who could have been developed a lot more. Both where killed off in favour of the SJW approved versions.
Add in all the other nonsense such as freeing the alien space ponies, the all white men are evil, etc, and you just get a clusterfeth of the worst kind of internet memeage.
And then we move on to the scriptwriting, all the witter banter and random access humour that was so funny, so utterly hilarious.... Except it was not. that first intro bit with the ace calling admiral whatshisname and the whole scene of him doing the "Are you there yet, guess I'll hold, etc" was just, well, boring. It added nothing to the film except to increase the runtime and it really did not make anyone laugh, unless they did so because of the cringe factor. Luke tossing the lightsaber - so funny! Such wit! Not. I just could not get into the humour, and none of the lads I was watching with could either.
The First Order is another point. What is it exactly. We had the build up in the first film as to how scary and dangerous Snord is, we see him using force lighting in this film, he is THE Big Bad, and then he just ups and dies like that. The worst part is how he does it - in this stupidly drawn out sequence where, whilst monitoring Bens brain, he somehow manages to fail to notice Bens intentions to stab him instead of Ray which is.... Stupid really. So the Big Bad is dead, what happens now? Well, nothing really, nothing changes. For someone whom was bigged up as this huge force of evil which everything rested on, Snorks death had a noticably pathetic affect on the rest of the universe. He dies and the First Order sort of shrugs and goes "okay then". That was it? I mean, was that it? The very lynch pin of the First Order is slain and they just proceed as if nothing had happened? Its pathetic.
Ben then takes over, and so the bad guys now have a tantrum prone manchild in charge. But hey, they have pretty much won now, so it should not matter much.
That is another thing actually, the alliance between Ben and Ray. I really wanted to see where that would have gone, but alas it was deemed verbotten by the writers. A pity too as it could have made for an interesting plot, Ray and Ben coming together and working out the differences to make a new Empire, or something similiar. Or going over to the rebels, Ben attoning for his past and trying to make things right. Or the two of them splintering away and starting a new movement of their own to balance things out. It could have been interesting, but alas, no.
Ben is the other thing. He is not a villain, he cant be. The way he is portrayed is just abysmal, he is an utter joke. A angry manchild whom tantrus every time he does not get his own way and who tries to act all cool and edgy. He is a joke, and should never be compared to Darth Vader. Vader was an actual villain, an interesting character and someone you could look at and feel frightened by. Ben is a angsty teenager trying to act cool and failing.
Of course, Ben is there as a token to the Anakin -Luke-X family, which is what Star Wars has originally been about. We have been following this one family, so we have to have an actual member of it staring in the film, as a token. But it feels hollow, the film is really all about how cool Ray is, and Ben's relation to the Skywalker family feels more like a token than anything else.
I would go on, but just thinking about the film is making my brain hurt, so there you are. My points on the latest Star Wars fanfilm.
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For example: I really liked Kylo Ren in TFA. I liked that he was portrayed as moody and kind of a wannabe. But TLJ just doubles down on this, rather than growing the character. It was fun and surprising in TFA. It was just frustrating to see him undergo no character development in TLJ, especially when some of the things he does imply the potential for change and growth. Subverted again suckas!
All in all it was the two female characters, Chubby and Tumblr, who got to me the most as the writers had two other perfectly good female characters whom would actually have been better, but they chose to kill them off.
Since Carrie Fisher died in real life the only way Leia could be kept around is with weird CGI, and that was roundly criticized with the treatment of Peter Cushing in Rouge One. Rose is extraneous, but Paige can sacrifice herself without her sister being in the movie. Holdo would work if she were better written.
Life does not cease to be funny when people die any more than it ceases to be serious when people laugh.
2018/05/24 21:57:13
Subject: Re:Star Wars: The Last Jedi - Reconsidered?
When Rose confesses her love to Finn, it adds an extra dimension to the developing Finn/Rey/Poe/Rey/Ren love quadrilateral.
Also I like the idea that a lowly maintenance technician can be a hero and play an important part without having to be the secret scion of a super-powered prince.
Now, imagine how that exact same story would have been received using big-name Marvel or DC characters all acting very much out of character. Superman instead of Dr. Manhattan, losing contact with humanity. Reed Richards planning world peace by blowing up several major cities.
So, the DCU x2?
Doing that with characters could work if it were something like the Injustice series, where you have Supes go full dictator. But still, that is taking known characters and creating a separate, alternate universe to answer the question of "What if this guy went rogue?"
Exactly. The Justice Lords work because they are an alternate reality. The Watchmen work because they another universe entirely. Do that sort of thing in the main line and you just lose everything - continuity, fans, and ultimately sales.
Because saying you are no better then "Genocide the Jedi, Enslave the wookies and galaxy" Palpatine and "Genocide the species on that one planet, take over the galaxy" is.. kind of summing up things in a very weird fashion.
Canonically the Sith were founded by a Jedi, the Wookies were already de facto enslaved by the Transdoshans, and Palp didn't enslave anyone. The slavery was all done by the Hutts.
Yeah the Sith overall were founded.... Well okay it depends on what sources being used, as it seems to be in general they've been changing how the Sith overall started each time and I'm not actually sure what the current disneycanon is. Though Jedi don't exactly help themselves when it comes to giving the Sith new members due to their rules.
The Wookie's were enslaved by the Trandoshans while being given direct benefit to do so by the Empire. Which turned the planet into a defacto slave race for the Empire in general while granting the Trandoshans overall power as a result. The Empire quite overlooks the slave trade when it comes to aliens since they generally were very humancentric. Though I imagine if there was a reason the Empire would've eventually turned and tried to conquer the outer rim fully and take over the Hutts operations.
True. And TLJ makes it clear the New Republic wasn't exactly antislavery either...
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/05/24 22:12:01
master of ordinance wrote: I mean, was that it? The very lynch pin of the First Order is slain and they just proceed as if nothing had happened?
The King is dead, long live the King. The FO is basically a monarchy, the only person that can challenge Kylo for leadership is a dude he can easily stab and blame it on Rey; like he blamed Snoke's killing on her.
Life does not cease to be funny when people die any more than it ceases to be serious when people laugh.
2018/05/24 22:25:09
Subject: Re:Star Wars: The Last Jedi - Reconsidered?
Kilkrazy wrote: When Rose confesses her love to Finn, it adds an extra dimension to the developing Finn/Rey/Poe/Rey/Ren love quadrilateral.
Also I like the idea that a lowly maintenance technician can be a hero and play an important part without having to be the secret scion of a super-powered prince.
So what important role does Rose play?
Let's look at what she does. She mentions her sister died taking out the Dreadnaught. She stops Finn from abandoning the Resistance. She goes on a mission with Finn to retrieve a Resistance hacker... and fails. She sets a bunch of critters temporarily free while leaving slave kids to suffer. She brings a traitor back to the Resistance. She flies a skispeeder around accomplishing nothing. And then she DOOMS THE RESISTANCE by preventing Finn from taking out the Battering Ram Laser (TM) by ramming it a full minute before it fires by ramming him and nearly killing both of them. Then she declares self-sacrifice is bad (despite her sister and Admiral Hodo both doing it earlier in the film) and forces a kiss on Finn in one of the most cringeworthy sexual assaults ever shown on film.
Remove Rose and the only thing of importance that changes is that Finn gets away from the Resistance, and so does NOT assist Rose in bringing a traitor back to betray the Resistance plan. The survivors successfully hide on not-Hoth as the First Order pursues Hodo off into the vacuum.
Oh, dear, it looks like Rose harmed things far more than helped.
To be fair, every character harmed more than helped.
Future War Cultist wrote: The fact that they made Snoke the only alien in a faction full of humans (and the leader to boot) sits weird with me now. Does that make me a bigot?
Is he actually an alien or did he just lightning a saber?
The problem is we have a whole segment of the audience holding her and Hodo up as something better 'because woman', but their actions were every bit as harmful as Finn and Poe's.
CHAOS! PANIC! DISORDER!
My job here is done.
2018/05/24 22:49:18
Subject: Re:Star Wars: The Last Jedi - Reconsidered?
Future War Cultist wrote: The fact that they made Snoke the only alien in a faction full of humans (and the leader to boot) sits weird with me now. Does that make me a bigot?
Maybe it's more a comment on how easy it is to get humans to be storm troopers for any bad idea as long as the leader appears strong.
2018/05/24 23:39:58
Subject: Re:Star Wars: The Last Jedi - Reconsidered?
Kilkrazy wrote: Also I like the idea that a lowly maintenance technician can be a hero and play an important part without having to be the secret scion of a super-powered prince.
For example: I really liked Kylo Ren in TFA. I liked that he was portrayed as moody and kind of a wannabe. But TLJ just doubles down on this, rather than growing the character. It was fun and surprising in TFA. It was just frustrating to see him undergo no character development in TLJ, especially when some of the things he does imply the potential for change and growth. Subverted again suckas!
I REALLY disagree with this. We see him develop a lot. Snoke mocks his helmet wearing wanna be ass and he realizes hes just been living in vader shadow and snokes shadow and trying to fit into a mold that came before. The moment he smashed that helmet to pieces was the moment he started to be his own person. When he turned on the light saber and killed snoke his chains were broken and the FO was his to grab and lead as he saw fit, fitting nobodys desires but his own.
He wanted Rey to abandon the Jedi like he abandoned snoke and have them both run off into the first order sunset. But it was HIM that wanted it. I think the TLJ saw a bunch of growth for kylos character.
Scrabb wrote:
Spoiler:
That being said, hes equally at fault for all the things people peg on Rey. He learns force powers as he needs them. He's a flat cardboard person in ANH and most of Empire. And until the prequels told us about the prophecy he was just some guy who was strong in the force for no reason. But hey, it's all ok back then and bad now. Why?
and we're back to disagreeing. I don't think either Luke or Rey is a flat character. Luke's "I want to get off this backwards desert planet and explore the galaxy" is more relatable to me than Rey's "I'm waiting for my parents so I can have a sense of belonging."
It's okay back then and not now because it was one thing back then and another thing now.
Luke gets pwned by tusken raiders while Rey does the pwning. The first time anyone is better than her at anything (engineering/melee combat/piloting/using the force/marksmanship) is when she's brought into the presence of the supreme leader of the First Order. This is despite her learning how to use a blaster in a twelve second clip and having zero formal force training. Luke had training before he could move an object. Luke had a lot of training before he was attempting to manipulate minds with the force. They just aren't the same thing.
Also Han was supposed to die at the end of Empire. Fords contract was up and it was the ending he wanted. His part in RotJ was added due to the characters popularity. And no, Han hasn't suffered for his criminal past. Because he didn't learn anything from it. 30 years later hes in another ship being the same kind of criminal.
And this is where you completely lose me. He hasn't suffered is not the same thing as he hasn't learned. Han definitely suffered. And him ending up back as a smuggler is him suffering. Remember, he got settled down. Had a kid. And he failed at that life and was failing at smuggling as well. Don't you remember those gangsters mocking him in TFA?
And you bounce around erratically with your arguments. You post: fan theories, real world studio contract business, the content of the actual movies, and EU canon interchangeably in your arguments depending on which strata agrees most closely with your intended effect.
I think we are falling into a trap of forum arguing over the course of weeks. We are starting to see individual arguments as the persons actual whole position. So I am going to rewind a sec and restate my actual position on this movie.
TLJ I enjoyed. Starwars in general is fun but incredibly dumb and also made for children (of all ages, but children first and foremost). I take particular umbrage with the Mary Sue argument because it's leveled at Rey specifically while ignoring all the other characters in all the other pop culture that are equally guilty. When I say Luke is a mary sue it's only in comparison to Rey. I don't actually think Mary Sues are a thing. I just think it's ridiculous to call out this character for it so much.
Likewise, I also don't think Rey or Luke are particularly flat. But if one is flat the other is equally flat. Because they both have about the same range and growth in their respective first 2 movies.
If your argument is that Yoda couldn't have known about what was happening to Luke and Leia, then I can explain it, either from canon sources or fan theories that just fit. This all ignoring that it's just dumb fun to begin with. If you say a character was always supposed to be "this" then I can site the litany of evidence we have that nothing was planned for so you have to take these things in chronological order of release as the dumb things they are. When I make those arguments I am arguing against someone else point in that moment.
MY point being that a lot of these judgments are unfair and based on things that either never really existed, have been confirmed to be different, or can easily be explained. If you didn't like the movie, fine. Good. Like what you like. But I must admit I really enjoy the debate and in that respect when I disagree over peoples points I like hashing it out.
Luke and Rey- Luke was a farmer who has clearly never been in a real fight and always been protected by his adoptive family. Rey had to survive on her own and has clearly had to fight to protect herself and did so. Luke SHOULD get beat down by tusken raiders. Rey SHOULD fight off a bunch of goons. Finn wasn't trying to fight anyone. He might have had some training but clearly his heart has never been in the actual fighting. We see that consistently. Also he was a janitor.
I take Reys raw power, which Luke has said hes only seen once before (referencing Ben) which means not even Vader had their raw power, to account for a lot. Rey and Kylo are on a tier all their own. I take Reys doing stuff not as anything with any finesse, but instead as plowing through barriers. Her RAW power pushed in a direction is enough to get a lot done. It makes me think of Starkiller from force unleashed. He is described in the same way. He isn't especially good with force stuff. He couldn't use the force to lift a bunch of bricks and build a wall. But on the other hand he can tear a star destroyer out of the sky and crash it into a city.
Han: I agree with what you say. But it wasn't really the point I was trying to make. Id have to go back and see what I was answering to even remember that bit. lol
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2018/05/25 01:11:21
These are my opinions. This is how I feel. Others may feel differently. This needs to be stated for some reason.
2018/05/25 01:10:15
Subject: Re:Star Wars: The Last Jedi - Reconsidered?
Kilkrazy wrote: Also I like the idea that a lowly maintenance technician can be a hero and play an important part without having to be the secret scion of a super-powered prince.
Sure, that was Finn's deal.
And even then they made him the partly comic relief of the group. Which is one of the utterly most disappointing choices given I think he's actually far more interesting as a character then either Poe or Rey.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/05/25 01:10:48
2018/05/25 03:17:29
Subject: Re:Star Wars: The Last Jedi - Reconsidered?
Kilkrazy wrote: When Rose confesses her love to Finn, it adds an extra dimension to the developing Finn/Rey/Poe/Rey/Ren love quadrilateral.
Also I like the idea that a lowly maintenance technician can be a hero and play an important part without having to be the secret scion of a super-powered prince.
So what important role does Rose play?
Let's look at what she does. She mentions her sister died taking out the Dreadnaught. She stops Finn from abandoning the Resistance. She goes on a mission with Finn to retrieve a Resistance hacker... and fails. She sets a bunch of critters temporarily free while leaving slave kids to suffer. She brings a traitor back to the Resistance. She flies a skispeeder around accomplishing nothing. And then she DOOMS THE RESISTANCE by preventing Finn from taking out the Battering Ram Laser (TM) by ramming it a full minute before it fires by ramming him and nearly killing both of them. Then she declares self-sacrifice is bad (despite her sister and Admiral Hodo both doing it earlier in the film) and forces a kiss on Finn in one of the most cringeworthy sexual assaults ever shown on film.
Remove Rose and the only thing of importance that changes is that Finn gets away from the Resistance, and so does NOT assist Rose in bringing a traitor back to betray the Resistance plan. The survivors successfully hide on not-Hoth as the First Order pursues Hodo off into the vacuum.
Oh, dear, it looks like Rose harmed things far more than helped.
The problem is we have a whole segment of the audience holding her and Hodo up as something better 'because woman', but their actions were every bit as harmful as Finn and Poe's.
My points exactly.
Free from GW's tyranny and the hobby is looking better for it
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2019/04/25 05:01:02
Subject: Re:Star Wars: The Last Jedi - Reconsidered?
Snoke obviously is a human whose features have been twisted and smeared by the power of the force to reveal his inner evil. This is a fairly common trope for evil villain characters.
The problem is we have a whole segment of the audience holding her and Hodo up as something better 'because woman', but their actions were every bit as harmful as Finn and Poe's.
Hey, Kylo Ren killed Snoke. I think that means he made the gallaxy a better place.
If you post on dakka expecting a response you're gonna have a bad time.
