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Anakin, Luke and Ben are only Force adepts tied to a specific bloodline.
Particular as Jedi are well against relationships and attachments.
Seriously. Elsewhere in the Lore, you’re either Force Sensitive, or your not, And if you are, there’s various levels (indicated by the concentration of midichlorians in your blood, but not generated by them( of ability.
Outside of the Skywalker bloodline (which was artificial), there are no great blood lines that I can think of.
As Snoke explains, ‘as the Darkness rises (Kylo) so the Light to face it’.
The Force evidentially seeks to keep itself in some form of balance.
This is also seen in the OT. Palpatine thought he has it in the bag. He reckoned Anakin was his clear equal in that respect, and sought from the start to enslave him. It worked. Shame he choked and didn’t see Luke coming. Why not?
Think back to Windu’s statement that the dark side had occluded the Jedi’s ability to see the future. That door likely swung both ways - and Palatine’s arrogance saw to the rest.
Did Palpatine come from a great bloodline of Force Adepts? Nope. Yet nobody is bringing thaf up.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Rey is an inevitable ‘immune system’ as The Force seeks its own balance. Doesn’t have to be a descendant of Great Jedi or Magnificent Sith. At all. That’s not how The Force works.
So just lay your fan theories down. And FFS stop getting butthurt you were wrong.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/05/29 20:40:01
Fed up of Scalpers? But still want your Exclusives? Why not join us?
Crimson Devil wrote: If Rey turns out to be Luke's daughter, who he abandoned on a desert world. And he never recognized her. Then the moral of the entire Star Wars franchise is; Jedi are bad Fathers.
Or rather how easy it is their children to be hidden from them.
Given how old Ben was in TLJ flashbacks, and how close in age Rey and he seem, it is much less likely for Rey to be Luke's daughter without him knowing.
Which is why my new favorite theory/hope if the Kenobi theory.
Correct. And he looks at least 16 in the flashback. So Rey would be about 6. Luke would have to be a REALLY bad dad/jedi to either not know she existed at that time or to have abandoned her on Jakku. You have to get really in the weeds to explain that away. It can be done, like maybe he knew she existed and thought she died during Ben's revolt. But then Ben would know her and would probably be the one who left her on Jakku. Which leads to some interesting subtext that changes his interactions with her so far. Could work, but doubtful.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/05/29 20:59:25
Ben leaving her on Jakku's pretty much the only way her being "someone" works for me.
On theories, I think the other interesting possibility with some of the unanswered mystery boxes, is the vision from TFA of Kylo marching on the burning Jedi temple with the Knights of Ren simply hasn't happened yet.
2018/05/29 21:02:43
Subject: Re:Star Wars: The Last Jedi - Reconsidered?
Ouze wrote: That feeling when the studio that released the 3rd highest grossing movie of all time in the US a few months ago is described as "running it into the ground".
3rd Highest Grossing movie of all time doesn't mean a damn thing when movies cost 10x more than they used to (in an age when the dollar is worth even less). I take every claim of "highest grossing" with a huge grain of salt nowadays, considering that movies can have the same viewership but make 10x more.
Correct. And he looks at least 16 in the flashback. So Rey would be about 6. Luke would have to be a REALLY bad dad/jedi to either not know she existed at that time or to have abandoned her on Jakku.
You have to get really in the weeds to explain that away. It can be done, like maybe he knew she existed and thought she died during Ben's revolt. But then Ben would know her and would probably be the one who left her on Jakku. Which leads to some interesting subtext that changes his interactions with her so far.
Could work, but doubtful.
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maybe he didn't so much abandon her, but hid her there from ben and his supposed knights he has running around. Everyone knows the sith and their minions hate sand so desert planets are the perfect hiding spots
in reconsidering TLJ - I think the only reasonable conclusion that can come from the reconsideration is a complete trashing of 7 and 8 and a rewrite with a single director. We can just look back on these and call them the "fail episodes".
Yeah - they made money - but they were trash.
If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced.
- Fox Mulder
Crimson Devil wrote: If Rey turns out to be Luke's daughter, who he abandoned on a desert world. And he never recognized her. Then the moral of the entire Star Wars franchise is; Jedi are bad Fathers.
And lets no even start on how much Padme sucks.
If JJ wants to revisit the parentage question, maybe a 'third way' would be to come at it from the maternal angle. They could reveal the mother, but leave the father a mystery. And not in a 'there was no father' way.
I believe there were some clickbait articles going around recently about the possibility of Mara Jade being cast, and whether she's Rey's mom. Mara Jade seems like a bad idea on a number of levels, but perhaps some parts of the concept could work. What if her mom had been in Vader's or Palpatine's employ? She'd truly be a mirror of Ben then.
I dunno. The whole thing is a bit of pickle, so JJ will probably let RJ's take on it stand.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/05/29 21:11:09
So Ben abandons Rey on Jaku? Then forgets she exists - force mind wipes himself? Nope - doesn't work. It's ether impossible or lame.
Disney wants to get away from "divine rights." Shes a slum girl that does everything better than the most powerful force wielders - that's the way it is.
If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced.
- Fox Mulder
Xenomancers wrote: So Ben abandons Rey on Jaku? Then forgets she exists - force mind wipes himself? Nope - doesn't work. It's ether impossible or lame.
Disney wants to get away from "divine rights." Shes a slum girl that does everything better than the most powerful force wielders - that's the way it is.
I thought it could work post TFA; I'm less convinced now. In TFA Kylo gets notably upset not just that the map escaped in the Falcon, but specifically that some girl from Jakku was involved. The idea would be that you'd have Snoke giving Ben the order to kill the younglings, but in keeping with his "failed Vader" shtick from TFA, he'd be unable to and ends up hiding them around the galaxy instead.
I'm still holding out for Rey being a young student that was trained, but was mind-wiped to protect her from Snoke. I'd be a bit more forgiving if that were shown.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/05/29 21:26:43
I think it speaks to the quality of TLJ when after I had part of the movie spoilered for me by an NPR interview I grimaced at everything I heard and have never bothered to watch it, making it the only Star Wars movie or TV show to date that I have never seen, and overall I have to say I enjoyed all the others, including the animated Clone Wars movie.
My thought was "Uhk, that sounds worse than the worst parts of the prequels". TFA had me pretty wary already.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/05/29 22:34:02
"By this point I'm convinced 100% that every single race in the 40k universe have somehow tapped into the ork ability to just have their tech work because they think it should."
Adeptus Doritos wrote: I'm still holding out for Rey being a young student that was trained, but was mind-wiped to protect her from Snoke. I'd be a bit more forgiving if that were shown.
She was abandoned at too young of an age for training to be possible. It would also only be possible with a mutual mind wiping of both Luke and Rey - which is fething lame (which seems Johnsonesq honestly). I think It's possible that Abrams wanted for Rey to be Lukes daughter (she really should be) but Johnson Gaked that up. I think the only possible salvation for a good episode 9 is Rey reads in the the jedi books that "the chosen one" keeps appearing until balanced is achieved or something and Rey is Anakin Reborn.
Kylo sucesfully pulls Rey to the dark side but then he has a change of heart and the fight to the death with reversed rolls.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/05/29 23:11:03
If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced.
- Fox Mulder
Crimson Devil wrote: So you're upset Holdo didn't share her plans with a reckless pilot recently demoted by Holdo's superior officer? If it had been anyone other than Leia, Poe would've been in the brig or out the airlock.
For what? Leading a successful (if costly) attack on an enemy capital ship that would have wiped out the fleet before it left orbit that they utterly failed to stop by issuing a recall order on the bombers ?
If Poe is a failure for leading the attack from the front, Leia and Ackbar fail by not issuing recall orders... or just skipping off into hyperspace and leaving Poe to face the New Order alone.
That's yet another severe plot hole in this movie - if Poe really was wrong, Leia and Ackbar could easily have overridden his orders. And there's no sign they even tried.
The Fleet could have left as soon at the last transport reached the fleet. They had plenty of time to leave if Poe had returned. The Dreadnought fired at the base 6:12 minutes in. The last transport reaches the fleet and Leia orders Poe back. But he ignores her and turn off his com. At 7:40 the bombers arrive. At 10:30 the Dreadnought is ready to fire again, but gets blown up.
Seriously did any of you guys actually watch the film?
So at any time between 6:12 and 7:40 Leia or Ackbar could have issued a recall order to the bombers... and didn't.
Bleak tone of failure. Apparant lack of consequence to major loss of bad guys during previous movie.(they only mention the death star once of handedly). are the biggest I can think of right now. Pacing was a big problem throughout the OT. Bland main character (Luke is no less bland than Rey).
These are genuine correct criticisims of TLJ but they were also correct for ESB.
Sorry there are more but my memory is kind of occupied with upcoming exams atm.
The major difference being that ESB tells an entertaining story, and TLJ does not. In the end, TLJ loses out as it strives to subvert everything and everyone for no reason other than subversion.
The user scores had a large disparity with the Critics scores, ignore rotten tomatoes for a second, even other sites had a large disparity.
... ...
The aggregate user rating for TLJ counting IMDB and Rotten Tomatoes is 68%, with over half a million ratings given.
The professional critic rating on IMDB is 85% and the IMDB user rating is 73%.
There's a variance but it's not that large.
Don’t you give me that “aggregate” nonsense lol
Current rotten tomatoes scores: critics 91%,viewers 46%, clear disparity
Metacritic: metascore 85, user score 4.5/10, disparity
IMDb, is as you say, still disparity.
So all 3 of these sites show a very clear disparity between the critics and the viewers, so what happens when you average film goer Google’s it to see if it’s good and worth watching... well... they are deceived either intentially or not.
That is why now more than ever we need independent film reviews and thankfully you tube provides that quite nicely.
TBH I haven't looked at metacritic. I didn't actually know it existed, but I'll have a look now when I get a bit of time.
However my calculation of the aggregate of IMDB and Rotten Tomatoes is correct.
Look at the average scores given by the 190K users who have scored the film on Rotten Tomatoes.
The overall 46% score is simply the number of scores above 3.5/5 = 7/10. It's not the viewers' score.
Automatically Appended Next Post: I've had a look at Metacritic. It's not possible to integrate the user score here because it's not based on a 1-10 scale like Rotten Tomatoes and IMDB.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Actually I spoke too soon. I see a way to integrate the Metacritic score.
It won't make much difference, though, because it's such a minor site compared to the other two. Only 7K ratings compared to over half a million on the other two sites.
I'll do that when I get home. I've got a spreadsheet setup.
One should be aware of a little detail about how Rotten Tomatoes comes up with their scores. It's not a true average of all scores, especially the viewer scores.
Rotten Tomatoes discards all scores under a full star. They do this for all movies, of course; that way they don't really turn the screws on a bad movie and alienate the studio.
Unfortunately, this time it leads to people like you drawing a false conclusion from the numbers they calculate. If you pick random samplings of 100 viewer reviews, you find a LOT of half-star and zero-star scores. If you use your spreadsheet to repeatedly calculate the actual average of several random samples, you wind up with a viewer review score in the twenties, not the forties.
IMBd is owned by LucasFilms, yes? I think in this case we can discard their poll as biased. They have a vested interest in not calculating in really negative reviews.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/05/30 00:15:33
Crimson Devil wrote: So you're upset Holdo didn't share her plans with a reckless pilot recently demoted by Holdo's superior officer? If it had been anyone other than Leia, Poe would've been in the brig or out the airlock.
For what? Leading a successful (if costly) attack on an enemy capital ship that would have wiped out the fleet before it left orbit that they utterly failed to stop by issuing a recall order on the bombers ?
If Poe is a failure for leading the attack from the front, Leia and Ackbar fail by not issuing recall orders... or just skipping off into hyperspace and leaving Poe to face the New Order alone.
That's yet another severe plot hole in this movie - if Poe really was wrong, Leia and Ackbar could easily have overridden his orders. And there's no sign they even tried.
So at any time between 6:12 and 7:40 Leia or Ackbar could have issued a recall order to the bombers... and didn't.
The Fleet could have left as soon at the last transport reached the fleet. They had plenty of time to leave if Poe had returned. The Dreadnought fired at the base 6:12 minutes in. The last transport reaches the fleet and Leia orders Poe back. But he ignores her and turn off his com. At 7:40 the bombers arrive. At 10:30 the Dreadnought is ready to fire again, but gets blown up.
Seriously did any of you guys actually watch the film?
Tell me again how it's all Poe's fault.
For that matter, if you're just trying to escape, why even launch the bombers. the rebellion was obviously out gunned, whichever admiral allowed them to launch in the first place is at fault. Probably Holdo, ordering a frontal assault against a fleet of star destroyers, that's just stupidity of the highest order. because the odds of surviving a frontal assault is 3,720 to 1.
Sure scramble the fighters the keep their fighters off your ships then jump away, attacking them from a weakened position is madness.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/05/30 00:25:38
2018/05/30 00:24:33
Subject: Re:Star Wars: The Last Jedi - Reconsidered?
Kilkrazy wrote: People who didn't like TLJ, are you going to not watch whatever comes next in the series?
Sideline movies, maybe. Future trilogies not involving JJ and Rian, maybe. TLJ literally killed any further interest I had in the characters created in TFA, alongside any interest in future works of those two directors.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Earth127 wrote: No Galef backtracking now on who Rey's parents are ,would be bad storytelling and retroactively devalue her confrontation with Kylo Ren. And it would break the mirror characterisation between her and Kylo Ren.
IMHO what the cave meant :Rey does not need her parents, she is her own parents.
I wonder if the cave scene means she's a clone. It would fit the imagery if she's just one of many Reys.
"I had a vision too. I know who your parents were... You are a Kenobi!"
Rey "... Who?"
Rey has no idea who the hell Kenobi is/was. That is a scene that would mean nothing to the people in the film and only something to the viewers. It would be full on terrible.
Interesting. Rey could well be Kenobi's grandaughter and still be the child of a couple of nobodies that no one had ever heard of.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/05/30 00:31:06
Crimson Devil wrote: So you're upset Holdo didn't share her plans with a reckless pilot recently demoted by Holdo's superior officer? If it had been anyone other than Leia, Poe would've been in the brig or out the airlock.
For what? Leading a successful (if costly) attack on an enemy capital ship that would have wiped out the fleet before it left orbit that they utterly failed to stop by issuing a recall order on the bombers ?
If Poe is a failure for leading the attack from the front, Leia and Ackbar fail by not issuing recall orders... or just skipping off into hyperspace and leaving Poe to face the New Order alone.
That's yet another severe plot hole in this movie - if Poe really was wrong, Leia and Ackbar could easily have overridden his orders. And there's no sign they even tried.
So at any time between 6:12 and 7:40 Leia or Ackbar could have issued a recall order to the bombers... and didn't.
The Fleet could have left as soon at the last transport reached the fleet. They had plenty of time to leave if Poe had returned. The Dreadnought fired at the base 6:12 minutes in. The last transport reaches the fleet and Leia orders Poe back. But he ignores her and turn off his com. At 7:40 the bombers arrive. At 10:30 the Dreadnought is ready to fire again, but gets blown up.
Seriously did any of you guys actually watch the film?
Tell me again how it's all Poe's fault.
For that matter, if you're just trying to escape, why even launch the bombers. the rebellion was obviously out gunned, whichever admiral allowed them to launch in the first place is at fault. Probably Holdo, ordering a frontal assault against a fleet of star destroyers, that's just stupidity of the highest order. because the odds of surviving a frontal assault is 3,720 to 1.
Sure scramble the fighters the keep their fighters off your ships then jump away, attacking them from a weakened position is madness.
You really think Holdo would do something so risky? Nothing about her character portrayal on screen says risk-taker. The set up would implicate Poe since he is in command of the attack, but since we don't see it screen who knows. What we can surmise is once the bombers start their attack run they were not capable of surviving a withdrawal. Hence Leia not ordering them to retreat. Press the attack and make their death's have value.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/05/30 01:30:48
sirlynchmob wrote: Probably Holdo, ordering a frontal assault against a fleet of star destroyers, that's just stupidity of the highest order.
Actually it's a brilliant strategy. You trade a few expendable bombers for a massive capital ship, that's a massive victory for the resistance. Who cares if they all die, you still killed way more than the bombers cost. Send in the next wave of bombers against the next capital ship, and repeat until the First Order's fleet is wiped out. The stupidity is people weeping about the fact that people die in war and fighter pilots are expendable munitions (something Poe seems to understand very clearly) instead of building up a lot more bombers and winning the war.
There is no such thing as a hobby without politics. "Leave politics at the door" is itself a political statement, an endorsement of the status quo and an attempt to silence dissenting voices.
sirlynchmob wrote: Probably Holdo, ordering a frontal assault against a fleet of star destroyers, that's just stupidity of the highest order.
Actually it's a brilliant strategy. You trade a few expendable bombers for a massive capital ship, that's a massive victory for the resistance. Who cares if they all die, you still killed way more than the bombers cost. Send in the next wave of bombers against the next capital ship, and repeat until the First Order's fleet is wiped out. The stupidity is people weeping about the fact that people die in war and fighter pilots are expendable munitions (something Poe seems to understand very clearly) instead of building up a lot more bombers and winning the war.
Usually yes - if you have any kind of support and logistics, any kind of functioning military structure...
Remember that the entire Republic military were overwhelmed in a day and they apparently have no prospect or resupply or reinforcements - that's the main issue - there is no resistance to speak off, just a bunch of idiots in some clapped out ships.
You really think Holdo would do something so risky? Nothing about her character portrayal on screen says risk-taker. The set up would implicate Poe since he is in cpmmand of the attack, but since we don't see it screen who knows. What we can surmise is once the bombers start their attack run they were not capable of surviving a withdrawal. Hence Leia not ordering them to retreat. Press the attack and make their death's have value.
Like the majority of the film its lazy and weak writing, stuff just gets chucked in to make the next scene vaguely work, no involved really cares to make any form of coherent narrative.
I AM A MARINE PLAYER
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Inquisitor Amberley Vail, Ordo Xenos
"I will admit that some Primachs like Russ or Horus could have a chance against an unarmed 12 year old novice but, a full Battle Sister??!! One to one? In close combat? Perhaps three Primarchs fighting together... but just one Primarch?" da001
Mr Morden wrote: Remember that the entire Republic military were overwhelmed in a day and they apparently have no prospect or resupply or reinforcements - that's the main issue - there is no resistance to speak off, just a bunch of idiots in some clapped out ships.
Then they fail and die anyway. Might as well go down shooting and take a few enemy ships with them. Still a success.
There is no such thing as a hobby without politics. "Leave politics at the door" is itself a political statement, an endorsement of the status quo and an attempt to silence dissenting voices.
sirlynchmob wrote: Probably Holdo, ordering a frontal assault against a fleet of star destroyers, that's just stupidity of the highest order.
Actually it's a brilliant strategy. You trade a few expendable bombers for a massive capital ship, that's a massive victory for the resistance. Who cares if they all die, you still killed way more than the bombers cost. Send in the next wave of bombers against the next capital ship, and repeat until the First Order's fleet is wiped out. The stupidity is people weeping about the fact that people die in war and fighter pilots are expendable munitions (something Poe seems to understand very clearly) instead of building up a lot more bombers and winning the war.
Leia cared.
Sure, if you have infinite resources and manpower, that strategy works. It doesn't work when your ships don't have enough fuel for more than 1 jump, and those funding you and buying the bombers just had their planets & factories blown away, not forgetting your advisory does have infinite resources and manpower.
Losing all your ships and people with only a handful of people escaping on a small freighter is losing the war. the war is over the first order won. The "rebellion" will now be seen like the bundy bunch sitting in a building thinking they're making a difference, while the rest of the universe turns a blind eye towards them because they lost. The bundy's "militia" had more people then the rebellion has and they were only up against 1 country, not the galaxy.
If they had taken the fuel from the bombers the ships could have made a second jump each in different directions, then they'd at least pass for a guerrilla army. But no system in their right mind will join the rebellion now, they just saw the destruction of numerous planets for supporting them, and the rebellion brings nothing to the table to protect any worlds that might join, because they lost everything.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/05/30 12:15:44
