US & NA Politics Thread

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**Ustrello**

Well well well, how long before the republican hacks in the house start bawling like gelded calf?

https://www.yahoo.com/news/rebuke-trump-key-senate-panel-endorses-finding-russia-attacked-2016-election-210143332.html

The Senate Intelligence Committee, rejecting doubts conveyed by President Trump as recently as last week, has become the latest body to officially conclude that the Russian government conducted a wide-ranging campaign — including cyberattacks — to influence the 2016 presidential election.

An unclassified seven-page report, released by the committee Tuesday with full bipartisan support, was based on an extensive, year-and-a-half-long investigation into the U.S. intelligence community’s January 2017 assessment that the Kremlin carried out its campaign in part for the purpose of promoting Trump’s candidacy and discrediting Hillary Clinton.

The committee’s conclusion: The assessment, which had been ordered by President Obama, is a “sound intelligence product” that was prepared by analysts who “were under no politically motivated pressure to reach any conclusions” and was based on a “range of all-source reporting,” albeit much of it still classified.

The panel’s findings are hardly a surprise. All of those who have reviewed the January 2017 intelligence community assessment — including the most senior officials of the Trump administration — have endorsed the conclusions that the Russians hacked the Democratic National Committee and undertook a wide variety of other measures to interfere in the U.S. election.

The only outlier continues to be the president who, in a tweet written shortly after the announcement he will meet Russian President Vladimir Putin this month at a summit in Helsinki, once again cast doubt on the findings of his own government.

**feeder**

Ustrello wrote:
Well well well, how long before the republican hacks in the house start bawling like gelded calf?

https://www.yahoo.com/news/rebuke-trump-key-senate-panel-endorses-finding-russia-attacked-2016-election-210143332.html

The Senate Intelligence Committee, rejecting doubts conveyed by President Trump as recently as last week, has become the latest body to officially conclude that the Russian government conducted a wide-ranging campaign — including cyberattacks — to influence the 2016 presidential election.

An unclassified seven-page report, released by the committee Tuesday with full bipartisan support, was based on an extensive, year-and-a-half-long investigation into the U.S. intelligence community’s January 2017 assessment that the Kremlin carried out its campaign in part for the purpose of promoting Trump’s candidacy and discrediting Hillary Clinton.

The committee’s conclusion: The assessment, which had been ordered by President Obama, is a “sound intelligence product” that was prepared by analysts who “were under no politically motivated pressure to reach any conclusions” and was based on a “range of all-source reporting,” albeit much of it still classified.

The panel’s findings are hardly a surprise. All of those who have reviewed the January 2017 intelligence community assessment — including the most senior officials of the Trump administration — have endorsed the conclusions that the Russians hacked the Democratic National Committee and undertook a wide variety of other measures to interfere in the U.S. election.

The only outlier continues to be the president who, in a tweet written shortly after the announcement he will meet Russian President Vladimir Putin this month at a summit in Helsinki, once again cast doubt on the findings of his own government.

And no one was surprised. You either accept reality, or double down on the alternate facts.

**Ouze**

I never thought I would see the day when a foreign power conducted what was essentially an attack on the American way of democracy, and have the party in power - either party - not only refuse to do anything, but actively deny it happened in the face of all evidence because they benefited from it.

It's like all the worst gak liberals said about Dick Cheney and Halliburton, but if it was actually true instead.

**NinthMusketeer**

Even having it a personal goal to abandon all pretense of taking humanity seriously I find it a bit surreal.

**cuda1179**

While I definitely agree that Russia tried to influence the election, I can see how one might argue that what they did didn't effect the overall outcome.

**Wolfblade**

cuda1179 wrote:
While I definitely agree that Russia tried to influence the election, I can see how one might argue that what they did didn't effect the overall outcome.

trump only won by 80,000 votes. Russia's facebook ad campaign alone reached over 126 million. It's not hard imagining it affecting the campaign. People who argue Russia didn't have an effect are either shills, or oblivious

**Ouze**

cuda1179 wrote:
While I definitely agree that Russia tried to influence the election, I can see how one might argue that what they did didn't effect the overall outcome.

For about 4 years the right-wing media acted like two black guys with a stick standing in front of a polling place in Philadelphia was a mortal threat to the voting rights of Americans*. If that was a big deal but the Russia stuff was debatable, then it's not a very honest argument.

In any event, if we agree that Russia interfered with the 2016 election, then it's largely immaterial if it was effective or not. You'd be pretty mad if I was firing a gun at your house even if I didn't actually hit the house.

*And I'm not engaging in whataboutism, that was one of the clearest cases of voter suppression I've ever seen in the last decade. The charges should never have been dropped.

**tneva82**

Vaktathi wrote:
Trump now claiming that Harley Davidson's EU move (raised in mid 2018) retroactively caused sales to fall in 2017...

More to the point...what motorcycle companies that arent already in the US is Trump working with to bring here? Especially that would compete for HD's already shrinking target market?

Haha. And I thought I had seen all in Trump's stupid excuses. This is getting into whole new realm of absurdity.

**Iron_Captain**

thekingofkings wrote:
LordofHats wrote:
feeder wrote:
ChargerIIC wrote:
Mrs. Esterhouse wrote:
We all know republicans will never admit or even realize their hypocrisy. They’re the party of christians after all. And christians wrote the book on hypocrisy!

EDIT: The above statement is unacceptable on Dakka Dakka. - Manchu

Unacceptable, but not removed? So..semi-acceptable?

Left up as a warning, like a severed head on a gate. Esterhouse prob got a temp OT ban for that post.

Nothing says beware like a bloody head on a pike

Like Ned Stark

Dakka mods are so cruel... Don't get on their bad side guys. They'll go medieval.

**AduroT**

LordofHats wrote:
feeder wrote:
ChargerIIC wrote:
Mrs. Esterhouse wrote:
We all know republicans will never admit or even realize their hypocrisy. They’re the party of christians after all. And christians wrote the book on hypocrisy!

EDIT: The above statement is unacceptable on Dakka Dakka. - Manchu

Unacceptable, but not removed? So..semi-acceptable?

Left up as a warning, like a severed head on a gate. Esterhouse prob got a temp OT ban for that post.

Nothing says beware like a bloody head on a pike

Don’t forget the most important part.

**Cheesecat**

nels1031 wrote:
Cheesecat wrote:
and making your dick stink being more of a culprit for the losing sales.

What percentage of genitalia of the near 150,000 people who purchased HD bikes in 2017 and all the millions in the preceding years have you had in and around your face to state that as an empirical fact?

Having your crotch near a hot engine that spews out gassy smoke for long periods of time, tends to make the genitals very smelly I mean that's just science.

**Whirlwind**

NinthMusketeer wrote:
In other news, while the motives are questionable at best, I fully support acting against affirmative action: https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/trump-administration-reverses-obama-on-affirmative-action/ar-AAzxjBd?li=BBnb7Kz

The first reason I oppose it is principle; giving minorities favored status is effectively discrimination against whites, which is illegal and simply not the right way to do things. As mentioned in the article there is also spillover into larger minorities as well.

However if the overall system is already discriminatory at the lower levels then it is only acting as a counterbalance. If you counterbalance at the top that should hopefully balance out in the long term as more ethnically diverse people are successful because they have got to the top universities, schools and colleges. Having a 100% non-discriminatory approach just favours the status quo, i.e. the wealthy elite can pay for the better education maintaining their position. If you have an already discriminatory society then you need these sort of laws to start to balance this out but it does take time and we as a species have a long way to go before that happens.

The second is because affirmative action doesn't work. It results in students getting into higher level colleges than they would normally; colleges they tend not to be prepared for and drop out of at a higher rate. On average it makes said minority students worse off than if they had gone to a lower level school.

Do we have evidence for this statement or is just surmising? Do the laws of physics change at different colleges. Do the works of Shakespeare change? Do climate change models differ. Once you get to a certain level what you are taught doesn't change, the more you pay likely does change how you are taught and the quality of it however.

**Iron_Captain**

Cheesecat wrote:
nels1031 wrote:
Cheesecat wrote:
and making your dick stink being more of a culprit for the losing sales.

What percentage of genitalia of the near 150,000 people who purchased HD bikes in 2017 and all the millions in the preceding years have you had in and around your face to state that as an empirical fact?

Having your crotch near a hot engine that spews out gassy smoke for long periods of time, tends to make the genitals very smelly I mean that's just science.

I thought bikers wore trousers and pants?

**Crispy78**

Ouze wrote:
I never thought I would see the day when a foreign power conducted what was essentially an attack on the American way of democracy, and have the party in power - either party - not only refuse to do anything, but actively deny it happened in the face of all evidence because they benefited from it.

It's like all the worst gak liberals said about Dick Cheney and Halliburton, but if it was actually true instead.

It's because the findings are absolutely devastating to Trump's rampaging narcissism, and his internal narrative that he was voted in by a landslide, is massively popular, had the biggest inauguration and so on. It doesn't fit with his self-obsessed worldview so is just ignored or referred to as fake news.

**Whirlwind**

Iron_Captain wrote:
Cheesecat wrote:
nels1031 wrote:
Cheesecat wrote:
and making your dick stink being more of a culprit for the losing sales.

What percentage of genitalia of the near 150,000 people who purchased HD bikes in 2017 and all the millions in the preceding years have you had in and around your face to state that as an empirical fact?

Having your crotch near a hot engine that spews out gassy smoke for long periods of time, tends to make the genitals very smelly I mean that's just science.

I thought bikers wore trousers and pants?

I thought they were talking about hairy asses?

**Frazzled**

Ouze wrote:
I never thought I would see the day when a foreign power conducted what was essentially an attack on the American way of democracy, and have the party in power - either party - not only refuse to do anything, but actively deny it happened in the face of all evidence because they benefited from it.

It's like all the worst gak liberals said about Dick Cheney and Halliburton, but if it was actually true instead.

What are you talking about? Trump called them and they said they didn't do nothing. What more do you need?

**CptJake**

Cheesecat wrote:
nels1031 wrote:
Cheesecat wrote:
and making your dick stink being more of a culprit for the losing sales.

What percentage of genitalia of the near 150,000 people who purchased HD bikes in 2017 and all the millions in the preceding years have you had in and around your face to state that as an empirical fact?

Having your crotch near a hot engine that spews out gassy smoke for long periods of time, tends to make the genitals very smelly I mean that's just science.

Damn, I've owned and ridden various bikes for the last 20 plus years and ridden with hundreds of other folks over the time. Seen literally thousands of bikes, many Harleys or similar V-twin machines.

Not ONE spewed 'gassy smoke' anywhere near the rider. In fact I can only think of maybe 2-3 bikes that spewed smoke at all and they were off road dirt bikes which were burning too much oil. If you use The Google and search for images you'll see these long pipe looking things on most bikes. These are called 'exhaust pipes' and vent exhaust away from the rider.

Clearly you don't understand the 'science' behind modern engines.

**Ustrello**

Iron_Captain wrote:
Cheesecat wrote:
nels1031 wrote:
Cheesecat wrote:
and making your dick stink being more of a culprit for the losing sales.

What percentage of genitalia of the near 150,000 people who purchased HD bikes in 2017 and all the millions in the preceding years have you had in and around your face to state that as an empirical fact?

Having your crotch near a hot engine that spews out gassy smoke for long periods of time, tends to make the genitals very smelly I mean that's just science.

I thought bikers wore trousers and pants?

You'd think that until you see idiots wearing shorts and a tshirt with no helmet while riding

**djones520**

Ustrello wrote:
Iron_Captain wrote:
Cheesecat wrote:
nels1031 wrote:
Cheesecat wrote:
and making your dick stink being more of a culprit for the losing sales.

What percentage of genitalia of the near 150,000 people who purchased HD bikes in 2017 and all the millions in the preceding years have you had in and around your face to state that as an empirical fact?

Having your crotch near a hot engine that spews out gassy smoke for long periods of time, tends to make the genitals very smelly I mean that's just science.

I thought bikers wore trousers and pants?

You'd think that until you see idiots wearing shorts and a tshirt with no helmet while riding

Yes, one area of "overbearing government" that I support is helmet laws. Michigan is a prime example of how the decision to not wear helmets screws the citizenry as a whole, and not just the idiot biker. We're (general tax payer pool) on the hook for paying the hospital bills that insurance won't cover for the vegetables the result it in, due to state law requirements.

**d-usa**

Pass a simple “no helmet, no welfare” law, the government will stay out of their lives, nobody has to pay for their decision, everybody is happy.

**Rosebuddy**

Ouze wrote:

In any event, if we agree that Russia interfered with the 2016 election, then it's largely immaterial if it was effective or not. You'd be pretty mad if I was firing a gun at your house even if I didn't actually hit the house.

I agree that, just as we should do with a mad gun man, the police should arrest Russia.

**Ustrello**

djones520 wrote:
Ustrello wrote:
Iron_Captain wrote:
Cheesecat wrote:
nels1031 wrote:
Cheesecat wrote:
and making your dick stink being more of a culprit for the losing sales.

What percentage of genitalia of the near 150,000 people who purchased HD bikes in 2017 and all the millions in the preceding years have you had in and around your face to state that as an empirical fact?

Having your crotch near a hot engine that spews out gassy smoke for long periods of time, tends to make the genitals very smelly I mean that's just science.

I thought bikers wore trousers and pants?

You'd think that until you see idiots wearing shorts and a tshirt with no helmet while riding

Yes, one area of "overbearing government" that I support is helmet laws. Michigan is a prime example of how the decision to not wear helmets screws the citizenry as a whole, and not just the idiot biker. We're (general tax payer pool) on the hook for paying the hospital bills that insurance won't cover for the vegetables the result it in, due to state law requirements.

Had a family friend who was riding his bike killed because of a distracted driver. He was at a red light when a lady on her phone hit him going 40 miles per hour, thankfully snapped his neck so he wasn't awake for anything because he got trashed by the impact. Worst part is that Florida does not have cell phone laws while driving, and because the woman was a single mom with no family she got away with a slap on the wrist ( a few months in jail and a couple years of probation)

**Xenomancers**

The difference between Russia essentially putting out an add campaign to trash Hillary on facebook and shooting blindly at a house while missing it is. This kind of stuff already happens by both parties constantly. The act of trashing a candidate is not an illegal or unexpected act. These acts are carried out by individuals (americans) all over the country and it is not illegal. (perhaps hacking someone's email is illegal but if what you are telling me is the Russians hacked some email releasing democratic corruption to the public - that won it for trump? You are just blind IMO) Plus after 2 plus years of trying to link that to Trump - and utterly failing...it really is time to burry that hatchet.

Trump won for one reason above all others. When the democrats did not support Sanders - to the point they cheated him out of the nomination. That is where they lost it. As is typical with democratic politicans. Identity is more important than substance.

I would have voted for Sanders. Guess who I voted for instead....you could ask thousands of center right center left people who voted for trump - I bet you 90% would have voted for Sanders.

**MrDwhitey**

I laughed pretty loud about that "identify is more important than substance" part.

**Frazzled**

Happy SCARE THE CRAP OUT OF YOUR PETS DAY!

**djones520**

Frazzled wrote:
Happy SCARE THE CRAP OUT OF YOUR PETS DAY!

Yeah. My oldest hates them, my two youngest could care less. We're going out this year, first time since we've moved to where fireworks are legal that we won't be home with the dogs. Gonna lock them up tonight, and put fans on in the room as loud as possible to try to drown the noise out, but I'm still worried about what i'm going to come home to.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Ustrello wrote:
djones520 wrote:
Ustrello wrote:
Iron_Captain wrote:
Cheesecat wrote:
nels1031 wrote:
Cheesecat wrote:
and making your dick stink being more of a culprit for the losing sales.

What percentage of genitalia of the near 150,000 people who purchased HD bikes in 2017 and all the millions in the preceding years have you had in and around your face to state that as an empirical fact?

Having your crotch near a hot engine that spews out gassy smoke for long periods of time, tends to make the genitals very smelly I mean that's just science.

I thought bikers wore trousers and pants?

You'd think that until you see idiots wearing shorts and a tshirt with no helmet while riding

Yes, one area of "overbearing government" that I support is helmet laws. Michigan is a prime example of how the decision to not wear helmets screws the citizenry as a whole, and not just the idiot biker. We're (general tax payer pool) on the hook for paying the hospital bills that insurance won't cover for the vegetables the result it in, due to state law requirements.

Had a family friend who was riding his bike killed because of a distracted driver. He was at a red light when a lady on her phone hit him going 40 miles per hour, thankfully snapped his neck so he wasn't awake for anything because he got trashed by the impact. Worst part is that Florida does not have cell phone laws while driving, and because the woman was a single mom with no family she got away with a slap on the wrist ( a few months in jail and a couple years of probation)

Coworker, same exact story. Sitting at a light, teenage girl texting just rams into him. Died 4 days later, was in a coma, so never had to suffer at least.

**Wolfblade**

Xenomancers wrote:
The difference between Russia essentially putting out an add campaign to trash Hillary on facebook and shooting blindly at a house while missing it is. This kind of stuff already happens by both parties constantly. The act of trashing a candidate is not an illegal or unexpected act. These acts are carried out by individuals (americans) all over the country and it is not illegal. (perhaps hacking someone's email is illegal but if what you are telling me is the Russians hacked some email releasing democratic corruption to the public - that won it for trump? You are just blind IMO) Plus after 2 plus years of trying to link that to Trump - and utterly failing...it really is time to burry that hatchet.

Trump won for one reason above all others. When the democrats did not support Sanders - to the point they cheated him out of the nomination. That is where they lost it. As is typical with democratic politicans. Identity is more important than substance.

I would have voted for Sanders. Guess who I voted for instead....you could ask thousands of center right center left people who voted for trump - I bet you 90% would have voted for Sanders.

So, if Russians aren't linked to trump, then whats the deal with almost literally everyone in his campaign having Russian connections, taking Russian money, or having secret meetings with Russians or how they worked to help trump? Also, there's a big difference between Americans running attack ads, and a foreign government running attack ads and hacking the election. Also, just because Mueller hasn't released his findings to you does not mean they've failed, just that they haven't released what they've found. I'd go on, but I don't think you're interested in any sort of facts judging by the way you're desperately covering for trump and Russia and spouting the fox news line.

**MrDwhitey**

Drunk driving/Texting while driving should be punished extremely harshly.

I do remember when we had a thread here ages ago and several people went on about how it was vital they text/take calls while driving.

**Vaktathi**

Xenomancers wrote:
The difference between Russia essentially putting out an add campaign to trash Hillary on facebook and shooting blindly at a house while missing it is. This kind of stuff already happens by both parties constantly.

Sure, but both sides are doing so as Americans with ostensibly at least their view of the best policies. Intent matters in law for a reason.

The act of trashing a candidate is not an illegal or unexpected act.

It is when it's being done by a foreign power.

These acts are carried out by individuals (americans) all over the country and it is not illegal. (perhaps hacking someone's email is illegal but if what you are telling me is the Russians hacked some email releasing democratic corruption to the public - that won it for trump? You are just blind IMO) Plus after 2 plus years of trying to link that to Trump - and utterly failing...it really is time to burry that hatchet.

Did we miss Russia buying tons of misleading ads, running political social media groups dedicated to ramping up tensions through the active spread of misinformation, etc...?

Trump won for one reason above all others. When the democrats did not support Sanders - to the point they cheated him out of the nomination.

Sanders was who I was hoping would win the Democratic nominationtoo, but no, Trump did not win because Sanders didn't, certainly not in any direct way.

That is where they lost it. As is typical with democratic politicans. Identity is more important than substance.

Um...you mean like literally the entirety of the Republican primary and Trump's campaign? Trump certainly didn't win based on considered policy proposals, because they were (and largely still are) basically nonexistent or spur of the moment.

I would have voted for Sanders. Guess who I voted for instead...

Let me guess...the guy who won the GOP nomination by running almost entirely on Identity issues?

Nobody was stopping you from still voting for Sanders, or anyone else you wanted to.

Frazzled wrote:
Happy SCARE THE CRAP OUT OF YOUR PETS DAY!

Spoiler:

My neighborhood is going to sound like Syria again tonight I'm sure

**d-usa**

I’m not saying that “they focus on identity politics” frequently sounds like “they focus on every identity other than straight white Christian males”, but the GOP often seems to focus on the itentity politics about the victim of identity politics.

It’s not like “those animals” “infiltrating” and “breeding” in our country taking “our jobs” and raping and murdering “our daughters” has anything to do with identity politics, that’s just a liberal thing.