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 lolman1c wrote:
I think someone suggested somewhere that Orks should get the Gretchin ability that 20+ orks gives your +1 to their BS and WS instead of the +1 attack. Then maybe the Waaagh Banner swaps out to the +1 attack. That way people have a reason to choose between a shoota horde and a choppa horde (and you get the added bonus of not having the game getting slogged down by 30+ more dice that don't do much when you already have 100+ attacks).

Wow, that is a great suggestion that could actually work really well. It is a fluff fitting solution that helps problems with shooting while essentially keeping things close to the same if you stack with the banner, and if you don't it saves a little time on rolling all those extra attacks in exchange for the better chance to hit with both shooting and melee. You may average out to a few less hits in melee without the banner, but the improved shooting would be worth it in my opinion!

Davor wrote:

I am not saying you are right or wrong. I like this new informartion GW is doing. Nice to know and not be kept in the dark. Yes I would like more information but I like what GW is doing now than what they did in the Kirby years.

"Nice to know and not be kept in the dark"

There hasn't been any information on the Ork codex in almost two months.

Davor wrote:

 An Actual Englishman wrote:

Davor wrote:

An Actual Englishman wrote:What sort of idiotic company announces a pair of codexes then focuses on other games, specialist or otherwise?

Seems like a very, VERY stupid thing to do unless the wait is worth it and for many that means new models as well as a strong rule set.

Oh my. You are proving Kirby right.

How so?

One of our complaints about Games Workshop was GW never tells us what is going on. We as a community would ask for it. We say how come Privateer Press would release info for like 6 months or more ahead of time before being released. This was part of the Kirby era. I believe it was Kirby who tried to keep EVERYTHING a secret. So saying with the words you used, would seem like it is wrong what GW is doing now giving us information about future projects and Kirby was correct in what he did then.

I am not saying you are right or wrong. I like this new informartion GW is doing. Nice to know and not be kept in the dark. Yes I would like more information but I like what GW is doing now than what they did in the Kirby years.

The Ork codex isn't a secret. We all knew it was comming because they said it would come out last year. If anything he is proving Kirby wrong because they are still keeping everything a secret until like 1 week before it comes out. Hell, they do this even with their big projects! Imagine if a big tripple A game company had a game coming out and they didn't even talk about it in detail until a month in advance?

I'm still of two minds about this method though. On the one hand I enjoy surprises (although I have a feeling I might not like the ork one) and on the other hand I feel it's very anti consumer (especially in the modern world with so much stuff to spend my money on).

Davor wrote:

One of our complaints about Games Workshop was GW never tells us what is going on. We as a community would ask for it. We say how come Privateer Press would release info for like 6 months or more ahead of time before being released. This was part of the Kirby era. I believe it was Kirby who tried to keep EVERYTHING a secret. So saying with the words you used, would seem like it is wrong what GW is doing now giving us information about future projects and Kirby was correct in what he did then.

I am not saying you are right or wrong. I like this new informartion GW is doing. Nice to know and not be kept in the dark. Yes I would like more information but I like what GW is doing now than what they did in the Kirby years.

GW haven't told us anything though? We are still kept in the dark and lied to. They said they'd get all major codexes out within a year of 8th and haven't. Also it isn't news that the Ork codex is one of the next 2, we're one of only 4 factions left.

We don't know if Orks or Space Wolves are next.
We don't know if there are going to be new models with the codex.
We don't know when it will release because it hasn't followed the same pattern as any other codex release.

These are all questions that the community has repeatedly asked GW.

I see very little change in terms of information now and information during the Kirby era. The primary difference is that GW now has an active online presence that keeps feeding people the same, bs line of 'soon' or makes a stupid joke when someone asks a question they refuse to answer. Certainly their marketing had improved. Their values and habits, unfortunately, are exactly the same.

Regardless you've missed the point of my first post that you originally responded to. GW built some hype when they announced Space Wolves and Ork codexes. Both sets of players breathed a sigh of relief thinking it wouldn't be long before they could play with all their toys. GW has gakked all over this hope by releasing other games and focusing on other things before the codexes. The majority of both sets of players are pissed and it is literally because of the actions of GW. It was a poor and stupid production decision.

It is starting to feel like they're having problems with the SW and Ork codices. First they miss the deadline on the all codices in a year, and now they either have to find release slots, or they're just stalling the releases. At first I thought the former, but I'm starting to think of may be the latter.

phillv85 wrote:
It is starting to feel like they're having problems with the SW and Ork codices. First they miss the deadline on the all codices in a year, and now they either have to find release slots, or they're just stalling the releases. At first I thought the former, but I'm starting to think of may be the latter.

Agreed, that seems to be the most logical explanation for the delay and lack of information.

MY gut feeling is that there's some financials at play here. could it be they're delaying those two codices so that they have some "proven performers" for a quarterly review?

It's possible, but the GW financial year started on the first of July, if they want to skip Q1 (which makes financial sense with AOS 2, Kill Team and potentially Adeptus Titanicus) it'll mean it will be at least 4 months since they said SW and Orkz are next. That's a big gap when they wanted them said and done in a year.

phillv85 wrote:
It's possible, but the GW financial year started on the first of July, if they want to skip Q1 (which makes financial sense with AOS 2, Kill Team and potentially Adeptus Titanicus) it'll mean it will be at least 4 months since they said SW and Orkz are next. That's a big gap when they wanted them said and done in a year.

Less then you might think. that second quarter would proably be september, and if Orks and Space Wolves came out GW could legitimately say that they kept to their promised schedule because Codex Space Marines was a september release. so from start toi finish they released all codices in a year. (and my gut says that GW was indeed thinking a year from Codex Space Marines, not from Dark Imperium)

 An Actual Englishman wrote:

phillv85 wrote:
It is starting to feel like they're having problems with the SW and Ork codices. First they miss the deadline on the all codices in a year, and now they either have to find release slots, or they're just stalling the releases. At first I thought the former, but I'm starting to think of may be the latter.

Agreed, that seems to be the most logical explanation for the delay and lack of information.

I wouldn't say it is the onlynone. More likely is they're moving products about based on what they think will sell more. For example, AoS was likely put half way through the year because it looks super good on their financial report. While Orks would not have given them the huge boom that the other sales do so was moved back to a quieter month.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

BrianDavion wrote:

phillv85 wrote:
It's possible, but the GW financial year started on the first of July, if they want to skip Q1 (which makes financial sense with AOS 2, Kill Team and potentially Adeptus Titanicus) it'll mean it will be at least 4 months since they said SW and Orkz are next. That's a big gap when they wanted them said and done in a year.

Less then you might think. that second quarter would proably be september, and if Orks and Space Wolves came out GW could legitimately say that they kept to their promised schedule because Codex Space Marines was a september release. so from start toi finish they released all codices in a year. (and my gut says that GW was indeed thinking a year from Codex Space Marines, not from Dark Imperium)

I agree with you there. In order to find that year qoute you need to find the article that talks about it. I remember I found it ince but forget where it is.

Bad news everyone. Turns out people were correct and a lot of our stuff is becoming webstore exclusive only. Look at the Ork sections... we now don't have an official stand alone HQ sold in stores anymore. Also sad to see the deffdread become a store exclusive (unless this alread was but i swear I saw it in the store).

https://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Warhammer-40-000?N=1125463923+2983157288+1182037304&Nr=AND%28sku.siteId%3AGB_gw%2Cproduct.locale%3Aen_GB_gw%29&Nrs=collection%28%29%2Frecord%5Bproduct.startDate+<%3D+1533114840000+and+product.endDate+>%3D+1533114840000%5D&view=all

I don't think Orks have been moved to a quiet month though, If they come out in september? thats invariable a busy time for GW. last year we got space marines in that month.

that said I think it's best to temper expectations. I predict Space Wolves will only get the useal "Primaris with upgrade sprues and a special Lt" Orks will proably get a handful of kits, good kits and ones they'll be glad to have but if they go in expecting an entire Ork line revamp, they'll be dissappointed.

A "big release" from GW in this day and age tends to be 4 kits and a character,

it's what Space Marines got more or less, it's what custodes got, it's what each of the marine factions technicly got, I'd expect around that tops for Orks.

In response to my last post aparntly the person who pmed me about the webstore exclusive stuff might be behind on info. I haven't been to a gw in 6 mo ths so I can't confirm but this stuff was taken off shelves in April aparntly.

 lolman1c wrote:
In response to my last post aparntly the person who pmed me about the webstore exclusive stuff might be behind on info. I haven't been to a gw in 6 mo ths so I can't confirm but this stuff was taken off shelves in April aparntly.

I was in my GW store a week or two ago and apparently "ALL Ork models are on 'last chance to buy" not most but ALL.Presumably they're reboxing for the codex, although if there are any Ork kits you partiuclarly like might be an idea to snag em now simply because Orks are a line that might see some old stuff getting replaced. I think space wolves are proably pretty safe

While I realise GW is once again a darling of the stock market I'd be surprised if the culture has become that focused on the share price.

I suspect the reality - unfortunately for people here - is that Ork and SW players (never mind GSC players, all 5 of them) are not big earners. Certainly not unless there are considerable model releases (i.e. 3-5 kits which can in themselves build a mini faction, like say a Speed Freaks list).

By contrast AOS 2, Kill Team, Titanicus etc probably are. They therefore take the limelight.

If the Codex is just pushed out with some points reductions it is fair to ask though why they have taken months to do put it out. (The reality I suspect is the lack of Ork players/thinkers at GW which has been the case for 10-15 years.)

Tyel wrote:
I suspect the reality - unfortunately for people here - is that Ork and SW players (never mind GSC players, all 5 of them) are not big earners.

Everything I've heard from people who are at least somewhat connected in GW and the amount of support they get suggests that SW are pretty big sellers. Bigger than DA and BA, probably bigger than most xenos ranges. But yeah, orks are not.

My entire time pkaying Orks I've never come across another Ork player... it's a sad fact of my area. However, I see a good 3 maybe 4 SW players... but this is just personal experience.

This is purely anecdotal, but there are lots of Ork players around here. By Ork players I mean people with Ork armies. Many of them don't bring Orks to competitive events.

I think a lot of the Ork range has aged well, but there is a huge amount of it on the used market, so I can see why it might not sell well for GW. Most of the newer kits have looked cool, but had really bad rules (Orkonauts, Flash Gitz, Wazbom) so I can see why people might only buy one of those but not muliple to build a list around. Mek Gunz look good and the KMK has good rules, but in that instance the kit itself is very expensive for what you get so I imagine a lot of people either don't run them or use 3rd party or scratch builds.

Seriously, I didn't even know the wazbom existed for like 2 years! And it's down to me never seeing anyone using one online. XD honestly though, it's a cool model I'd love to have but so many things ask for my money now adays it's hard to give it up for something i might not use.

the kitbashy nature of orks proably also doesn't help. When an Ork player goes to make a looted Lemen Russ, all GW sees is "we sold a Lemen Russ"

An Actual Englishman wrote: They said they'd get all major codexes out within a year of 8th and haven't. Also it isn't news that the Ork codex is one of the next 2, we're one of only 4 factions left.

Did GW say that? I only remember that about 10 codices would be updated in 2017 and they did that. I don't recall GW ever saying that all codices would be out. Not saying you are wrong just surprised to see it. Any chance you have a link to that? If GW did say that, I can see why you are upset. I am still waiting for Genestealer Cults.

Ork players are not uncommon - they’re actually a very popular army; the problem is, you can only pull them out and game with them so many times in 10 years, before you really begin to wonder if you’re even having fun - Orks haven’t been good since 3rd edition, and that’s a time ago.

And, “orks don’t get focus because their not big earners”; even if it’s not true, it’s a viscous circle - why buy an army that doesn’t get any care from the parent company, why give a product care if no-one is buying it?

Sadly though, it IS the GW method - gotta keep pushing this Imperials every release.

3rd edition was 18-20 years ago. Would you still be playing that army actively after all that time, if they never got any shreds of care? Always being he punching bag, “mindless horde”, “fun”/random army? The ork players ARE out there; I’m always seeing new threads showcasing new boys/conversions; heck, look at the number of posts in the Ork Tacticas compared to other armies - always the most.

Boyz is best.

I know a lot of people who have ork armies, the problem is that none of them play Orkz anymore because the army has been trash for about 8 years now.

Ork armies are gimmicky in the extreme. You want an army of walkers? Kan wall with dreadz/nauts and a stompa in support.

You want speedy units? Warbikers, Deff Koptas, Trukkz and stormboyz in a Speed Freakz list.

Want ALL OF THE DAKKA!?!!!! Lootas, Mek Gunz, and a host of other things.

The issue is that a lot of players bought a single play style of orkz and then when it became almost impossible to win or even have a chance of winning with that army they just sidelined it and picked up Marines or Eldar or Tau like everyone else. Hell I think my store has about 12 weekly players, 8 of which have ork armies, and we have at least 30 casual players who come in 1-2 times a month and at least some of them have casual ork armies.

Davor wrote:

An Actual Englishman wrote: They said they'd get all major codexes out within a year of 8th and haven't. Also it isn't news that the Ork codex is one of the next 2, we're one of only 4 factions left.

Did GW say that? I only remember that about 10 codices would be updated in 2017 and they did that. I don't recall GW ever saying that all codices would be out. Not saying you are wrong just surprised to see it. Any chance you have a link to that? If GW did say that, I can see why you are upset. I am still waiting for Genestealer Cults.

Yea, they said it. I don't have a link as I'm on phone and about to go sleep but a quick google search should help you locate when and where.

 Perfect Organism wrote:

Tyel wrote:
I suspect the reality - unfortunately for people here - is that Ork and SW players (never mind GSC players, all 5 of them) are not big earners.

Everything I've heard from people who are at least somewhat connected in GW and the amount of support they get suggests that SW are pretty big sellers. Bigger than DA and BA, probably bigger than most xenos ranges. But yeah, orks are not.

Yeah I guess you might be right on SW. Its pretty easy to buy some wolf riders and now some Wulfen and you are a lot of the way to a list.

Doesn't do anything for me, but I know a few SW players.

 An Actual Englishman wrote:

Davor wrote:

An Actual Englishman wrote: They said they'd get all major codexes out within a year of 8th and haven't. Also it isn't news that the Ork codex is one of the next 2, we're one of only 4 factions left.

Did GW say that? I only remember that about 10 codices would be updated in 2017 and they did that. I don't recall GW ever saying that all codices would be out. Not saying you are wrong just surprised to see it. Any chance you have a link to that? If GW did say that, I can see why you are upset. I am still waiting for Genestealer Cults.

Yea, they said it. I don't have a link as I'm on phone and about to go sleep but a quick google search should help you locate when and where.

pretty sure they never said this on the community page because i can;t find it.

Ok, so, i have a bit of news that i haven't seen mentioned anywhere in this thread yet.

Bear in mind this comes from groups of players that contain known play testers and i don't know how "recent" this is or not.

Essentially, i was at an event last weekend, and there were quiet chats about the Ork codex going on.

From what was said, there have been a few issues with the codex and the play testers have kicked it back to GW to be fixed.

Now, i'm not sure whether this will require a complete re-write, but, a significant part of it needs to change from what i believe.

Essentially, the codex is said to be perfect for open play and narrative player, however, it is a hot broken pile of "REALLY?!?" when it comes to matched play.

The biggest issue, was that Orks were able to infiltrate EVERYTHING. I'm not sure whether this was in the deployment phase or turn 1, but, essentially to cut a long story short, the play testers realised that having 2000 points worth of orks all within 9" of your opponents army turn 1 might be a little bit of an issue.

I'm not sure what the other issues are/were, if there were actually any, nor do i know what the impact on release the kick back will have - but i think it is 100% worth to get the info out there that there has been a delay because GW went from codex creep to codex creep with half a dozen space rockets strapped to the back.

No idea in regards to SW and GSC though.

Interesting... the problem is that I wouldn't know the full codex so wouldn't know if it is broken or it's just people who want to nerf Orks. I'll admit is something is broken and everything able to DS turn 1 does sound a little OP but would be awesome if it was turn 2. However, now you have be super concerned that GW goes "okay... so we made 1 ork tactic good... let's nerf the entire book into oblivion so it never works again!

But something perfect for a casual game? I super hope gw just fixes that 1 issue and not nerf everything if this rumour is true.

Kdash wrote:

The biggest issue, was that Orks were able to infiltrate EVERYTHING. I'm not sure whether this was in the deployment phase or turn 1, but, essentially to cut a long story short, the play testers realised that having 2000 points worth of orks all within 9" of your opponents army turn 1 might be a little bit of an issue.

My guess would be that was the result of an OP stratagem or clan tactic for Blood Axes.

Hmm, well, that kinda steps on Kommandos toes so it seems strange that you'd be able to Infiltrate regular boyz even for a Blood Axe army.

And gee, Orks being OP. Yea, let's stop the presses literally.

So I just wanted to bring in some speculation after staring too hard into the warp: with AoS units/models sneaking into 40k (oh hi Tzaangors and Mutalith Vortex Beast), I could see an arguement for Feral Orks making a return into the army again, which would also mean that GW wouldn't need to drop so much money on new kits since they already have some really darn good ones in AoS for Orks right now, we just need to sneak them over to 40k.