Ork speculation/chat - [new rumour p75 and in OP-Clan Warlord Traits]

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**tneva82**

Yes. But that's why the problem is with the damn thing costing ridiculous points. But it's silly to say knight h2h is "only marginally better" while not saying knight shoots only marginally better when the ratio is about the same.

Now albeit shooty killyness is generally better than stompy killiness but still the issue is less so with kill power as it's with durability(main culprit here being degration chart. In terms of wounds 40 wounds is actually better than 24 with 5++ especially when that 5++ is only for shooting) and price combined with lack of strategems, relics etc.

Put up stompa around price of knight and see how it goes. Hell stompa IS orks knight equilavent(it most definitely isn't titan equilaven) so that's where it should be both in power and points.

**Jidmah**

I somehow missed the part where the stompa is better in CC than a knight.

The slash of a mega-choppa has the same profile as a knight stomp, both have 4 attacks. The smash profile has more AP than the knight's fist and hits on 3+ instead of 4+. However, if your place the fist with the relic or use the stratagem, it becomes better than the stompa.

So, a non-Galant Knight is about equal in combat to a stompa and easily outshoots it. You can have almost three knights for the price of one stompa.

**Ratius**

Please let GW fix da Stompa. I have two raring to get back on the tabletop.

**adamsouza**

They need to drop whatever point premium they are paying for transport capacity.

Also, grot gunners, or some sort of excessive firepower rule that gives Stompas a +1 to hit with ranged weapons

**gnome_idea_what**

adamsouza wrote:
They need to drop whatever point premium they are paying for transport capacity.

Also, grot gunners, or some sort of excessive firepower rule that gives Stompas a +1 to hit with ranged weapons

The transport capacity cost is awkward because for orks, there’s not much that’s worth transporting.

**SemperMortis**

tneva82 wrote:
SemperMortis wrote:

As far as a stompa being better in CC? Well not really. Against most targets a smart player will use the slash profile which is 12 attacks hitting on 3s wounding on 2 against T5 and below. Against another knight that is wounding on 3s. So against a Knight you get 8 hits on average, 5-6 wounds on average, -2 AP brings a knights armor to 5+ so he will save 2 of those wounds on average so 3-4 go through for D3 damage each averaging 6-8 damage. using the other profile its 4 attacks hitting on 3s so 3 hits, wounding on 2s so probably 3 wounds and 18 damage. I would probably use that profile and hope my dice don't betray me But the Knight paladin has 4 attacks, hitting on 3s wounding on 3s so 3 hits 2 wounds and 12 damage on average....So the knight hits harder with ranged weapons and in CC is only marginally worse. in trade offs the Stompa can carry 20 models (whoopee) and has a plethora of lesser (crappier) guns, the Knight on the other hand has a 5+ built in invuln vs shooting. Ohh, and you can take 2 Knight Paladins for cheaper then a single Stompa....
.

Ummm...Your definitions are bit weird. You say knight is only marginally worse in h2h when face to face stompa does 50% more damage. Meanwhile shooting say against T7 3+ target stompa does 2,72222222195 and knight RFBC does 4,148148135703704 which is, wait for it, 52% more than stompa would do. Against T8(say duel between the 2) advantage then turns toward stompa. T4 or worse advantage for knight increases. So how come you say flat out "harder with shooting and CC only marginally worse" when advantage is about same? More accurate thus would be "knight shoots marginally better and is marginally worse".

Issue is less with damage output and more about survivability and high price cost. But "better at shooting, only marginally worse in h2h" is somewhat dishonest.

Because simply put, Hand to hand is weaker then Ranged combat. That is why I say its only marginally better. Add to that, I picked a standard knight to use the RFBC, other knight models have better close combat abilities. Hell the Lancer one can deal some serious damage to a stompa in a single fight phase in CC. 4 attacks rerolling on 3s is 3 or 4 hits, those hits are wounding on 3s and deal 6 damage each, no saves. so 2-3 will definitely go through, and in retaliation, the Knight gets a 4++ in close combat AND -1 to hit in CC, so the Stompa is now hitting on 4s so the stompas 4 attacks only hit twice and wound twice on average which then the knight will save 1 because 4++ so 6 damage. And again, a Knight lancer...about half the price of a Stompa, so you could take the lancer and a range oriented knight, or hell just take two RFBC Knights and kill the Stompa without much hassle.

The thing is a giant lump of uselessness right now, I REALLY want GW to fix that

**tneva82**

Sheesh why i even bother when people don't read what i write but what they want to read

**SemperMortis**

tneva82 wrote:
Sheesh why i even bother when people don't read what i write but what they want to read

I was merely explaining my position based on your comment that my definition was a bit weird. Durability and price are definitely the corner stone failures of the stompa but honestly, even at the cost of a knight it wouldn't be worth taking because of how quickly it degrades. Knock it down 1 tier and you kill HALF its dakka. If you have a -1 to hit army wide, you basically can ignore the Stompa's shooting from the get go, but at tier 2 it literally can't even hit anything.

**warhead01**

Anyone else see that Grukk is back but for Kill team and with a under a different name. The real question is who would Grukk be hiding from and why is he in the witness protection program under the name Bitzog...

**Jidmah**

Maybe he knows the secrets of the Dark Angels?

**An Actual Englishman**

The return of Grukk's model renamed is interesting for a few reasons I think.

First, initially I thought its clear GW's intentions is to have the model become our generic PK Warboss but on second thought they may be trying to shift some stock before a new, much more interesting model release happens.

Second I assume it means Grukk is officially dead in the fluff moving forward.

Third it'll be interesting to see how GW handle other Warboss models. Outside a metal kit we have no boss with Big Choppa. Something that they must be keeping as an option given the existence of Ead Woppas KC. We don't have a boss in MA etc We're getting the new Trike boss who replaces the biker boss.

Perhaps other new boss models are incoming?

**warhead01**

An Actual Englishman wrote:
The return of Grukk's model renamed is interesting for a few reasons I think.

First, initially I thought its clear GW's intentions is to have the model become our generic PK Warboss but on second thought they may be trying to shift some stock before a new, much more interesting model release happens.

Second I assume it means Grukk is officially dead in the fluff moving forward.

Third it'll be interesting to see how GW handle other Warboss models. Outside a metal kit we have no boss with Big Choppa. Something that they must be keeping as an option given the existence of Ead Woppas KC. We don't have a boss in MA etc We're getting the new Trike boss who replaces the biker boss.

Perhaps other new boss models are incoming?

What's I'd hope for. Yes I know... Is that with Grukk being a cad sculpt maybe they had tried other options for him in their sculpting. Maybe they can print out a few new army for him. I have Grukk on a shelf, I just got him to paint and don't recall how he's put together. Maybe his left army up the the shoulder is a separate part?
It would be good but I expect nothing.

I'm also not interested in yet another Warboss, for myself. although if it went hand in hand with better stats and options it would be difficult not to resize my Warboss to the larger body. Provided it would just look like he's grown bigger.

**Perfect Organism**

I haven't seen anything about the Grukk model coming back. Anyone got a link?

They do seem very keen on making plastic characters at the moment, so I wouldn't be surprised if orks got an absolute load of them. Mega-armour warboss seems almost guaranteed to me. Probably a bunch of entirely new ones as well.

**warhead01**

Perfect Organism wrote:
I haven't seen anything about the Grukk model coming back. Anyone got a link?

They do seem very keen on making plastic characters at the moment, so I wouldn't be surprised if orks got an absolute load of them. Mega-armour warboss seems almost guaranteed to me. Probably a bunch of entirely new ones as well.

There's a picture on the Warhammer community site. Garro on FB posted about the Kill Team expansion and in the comments someone posted some pictures.
https://www.facebook.com/Garro30k/posts/1976691232351463?__xts__%5B0%5D=68.ARBXeBRQ3Entt72HddwbiZdM6uaFlufuzwMSAMGoa2AdiUGgUqLswS_5_z4Aw1Msv7X1bHh0SSfqXdnQrR0lUGSULZXExZpX6npVUAu530ZF3RR4cHB9NFJwOfGcmDW4G33HkDTwg0F0oZPAYqWGYD-h1HWmcgHO-YLdjMKxZPZNpm92zzU9Xg&__tn__=-R

**Vitali Advenil**

Perfect Organism wrote:
I haven't seen anything about the Grukk model coming back. Anyone got a link?

They do seem very keen on making plastic characters at the moment, so I wouldn't be surprised if orks got an absolute load of them. Mega-armour warboss seems almost guaranteed to me. Probably a bunch of entirely new ones as well.

Warboss with MA and a proper Big Mek model hopefully. Right now the only Big Mek models we have are puny or are modeled with the SAG. Big Meks are supposed to be roughly Warboss-size, or at least that of a large nob clad in all sorts of kustom gubbins.

**An Actual Englishman**

Is anyone else surprised that GW decided the first release in "Orktober" should be a box set of Eldar vs SM with new leaders for each?

Orktober my arse.

**warhead01**

An Actual Englishman wrote:
Is anyone else surprised that GW decided the first release in "Orktober" should be a box set of Eldar vs SM with new leaders for each?

Orktober my arse.

I'm past the disappointment stage already. I have zero expectations now. It'll happen when it happens. All this is doing is giving me more time to put money aside for the drop dates.

**SemperMortis**

An Actual Englishman wrote:
Is anyone else surprised that GW decided the first release in "Orktober" should be a box set of Eldar vs SM with new leaders for each?

Orktober my arse.

hold on let me check my surprise levels....nope, bone dry.

If GW releases anything in "Orktober" beyond the new speedfreakz game I'll be happily surprised.

**redboi**

At this point I'd honestly be thoroughly blown away if Orks are even released in October

**An Actual Englishman**

Lol glad to see my fellows are also at a low in terms of hype.

**Vitali Advenil**

We still have a full week until October. Our previews still have a very large chance of landing this week.

**tneva82**

An Actual Englishman wrote:
Is anyone else surprised that GW decided the first release in "Orktober" should be a box set of Eldar vs SM with new leaders for each?

Orktober my arse.

Only yourself to blame for coming up with ideas yourself that GW then didn't deliver. Lol. You have been warned of doing this yet you keep doing it. You set up yourself for dissapointment. Blame yourself for being dissapointed then.

**redboi**

tneva82 wrote:
An Actual Englishman wrote:
Is anyone else surprised that GW decided the first release in "Orktober" should be a box set of Eldar vs SM with new leaders for each?

Orktober my arse.

Only yourself to blame for coming up with ideas yourself that GW then didn't deliver. Lol. You have been warned of doing this yet you keep doing it. You set up yourself for dissapointment. Blame yourself for being dissapointed then.

I mean you can't really blame him when GW literally called it "Orktober"

**ZoBo**

to be fair, tneva, GW did actually say "Orktober" themselves...it would be a reasonable assumption to then be expecting at least most of the month to be filled with orky goodness...as it stands, the first we'll actually be able to get our hands on any new ork stuff, is the 13th, almost halfway through the month...

(primaris vs eldar box, killteam stuff - preorder 29th, release 6th...so earliest ork preorders = the 6th...release, the 13th...and it could be even later, that's just the earliest it could be!)

GW have actually "named" a month after a particular faction, and we're gonna be halfway through the month before we actually have anything new for that faction...that is a bit disappointing...

**tneva82**

ZoBo wrote:
to be fair, tneva, GW did actually say "Orktober" themselves...it would be a reasonable assumption to then be expecting at least most of the month to be filled with orky goodness...as it stands, the first we'll actually be able to get our hands on any new ork stuff, is the 13th, almost halfway through the month...

(primaris vs eldar box, killteam stuff - preorder 29th, release 6th...so earliest ork preorders = the 6th...release, the 13th...and it could be even later, that's just the earliest it could be!)

GW have actually "named" a month after a particular faction, and we're gonna be halfway through the month before we actually have anything new for that faction...that is a bit disappointing...

But then some people went all "Oh that means it's 100% ork releases!" assumption themselves. And not say think about the possibility it just means orks comes in october combined with pun on words.

People make assumptions themselves, they have only themselves to blame. Especially with WD leaks making it more likely it's end of the month.

ALSO GW has habit of using PRE ORDER date as deciding factor what month release is considered. Next saturday is, wait for it, SEPTEMBER! Since when september is part of october? So even if october WERE all orks(nevermind non-ork releases we know are coming as well) you would have first orktober preorder, wait for it, 6.10. How unusually logical. October releases coming in october.

You make up assumptions yourself, blame yourself for the dissapointment.

**Moriarty**

An Actual Englishman wrote:
Lol glad to see my fellows are also at a low in terms of hype.

‘Hope is the first step on the road to disappointment.’

**Jidmah**

redboi wrote:
At this point I'd honestly be thoroughly blown away if Orks are even released in October

It's September.

**tneva82**

Jidmah wrote:
redboi wrote:
At this point I'd honestly be thoroughly blown away if Orks are even released in October

It's September.

As is this saturday. Orks are coming on october. Not surprising thus they don't come on preorder for september(preorder being the defining moment).

If I had to put a wage I would be putting money on pre-release info for this sunday, codex for week after that.

Codex out on 27th would be slightly inconvenient as I have mega battle from 18:00 onward but I'm already making open office sheet with point costs etc for my list so that come the codex I can just plug in points and have new point total in one go

**JawRippa**

We are all very tired of waiting. Don't pour salt on the wound with petty posts, tneva.

Judging by the fact that GW hasn't given us proper teases yet, they'll start releasing teasers throughout october and then preorders will start at the end of the month. I guess speedfreaks leak was a legit leak, thus we have this huge info release gap?

As for myself, I've kept my expectations low, but if after all this wait, we'll get an uninspired codex, then I'll turn into salt elemental.

**Jidmah**

"I have become salt incarnate!"

Bonus points for modeling a morkanaut out of salt crystals.