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 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
The codex isn't out though. How would do we know the points haven't dropped?
And logically, if they didn't change the points cost in the codex, then they aren't going to do it in chapter approved either, as that is scheduled to be released 2 months from now.

That's kind of what I was wondering. Why are people already putting hopes for CA for price drops when we don't know did they drop points in codex and any point changes in CA would be already decided by now! I would be looking at codex first and if that's dud then I would just have to accept short of spring FAQ(and more unlikely autumn faq) there's not much hope for price drop before CA2019. Using CA2018 to adjust points before codex is even out feels odd. If GW already knew points are off wouldn't the codex FAQ in 2weeks after codex be more sensible for such a quick errata...


Automatically Appended Next Post:

geargutz wrote:

tneva82 wrote:


Well there's model on sale so odds of dissapearing was super slim to begin with.

And CA? People are so dissapointed with codex already they are hoping for post-codex point reductions? That would be funny. GW deciding to drop points before codex is even released.

im just glad CA exists. it provides that opportunity that if the codex does suck then it can be fixed later.

yes, we dont have the codex right now, so there is a lot of speculation. but history has shown orks have been mishandled, its easier to expect GW to screw up on orks then it is to think they will buff us to top tear. so many of us will be pessimistic until we have the codex and have played enough to understand where our codex is in the meta.

even if there are great things in our codex there are alot of units that will most likely not be competitive. if the defkopta still sucks in the codex then we will have to look forward to CA for any hope. some popple build their collections around units that suck (i bloody play dreadmob lol).

Thing is CA2018 is too close for fixing points for ork codex. CA2018 is already done and decided. Lead times. People seems to have this weird conception books are finished like week before it comes on sale. If orks will be getting point adjustements in CA look at CA2019 and not CA2018.

Agree. CA will most like have no changes in store for orks outside FW models and general rules changes.

CA could still have corrections since the Ork Codex was likely finished and printing before CA. So typo or error spotted after print date could be corrected in the CA.

That said I do agree there shouldn't be a wholesale larger changes and likely nothing in balance or from player feedback.

 Overread wrote:
CA could still have corrections since the Ork Codex was likely finished and printing before CA. So typo or error spotted after print date could be corrected in the CA.

That said I do agree there shouldn't be a wholesale larger changes and likely nothing in balance or from player feedback.

Not happening, Nids were released early November last year and dind't receive any point change in the CA

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
The codex isn't out though. How would do we know the points haven't dropped?
And logically, if they didn't change the points cost in the codex, then they aren't going to do it in chapter approved either, as that is scheduled to be released 2 months from now.

well first off some people had the codex (or some version of it) and thanks to the WWW some leaks are gonna happen

there was a vid from a french youtuber, he posted a game of new orks... codex army was 1750 points
if you crunch the number you get the same index army for about 1730ish points. one entry, a bike mob, was not mentioned properly. could have been normal bikers or nobbikers so maybe the index army would be around 1800 points.
either way... seems like there wont be a massive points drop across the board

Obi_wang wrote:
This gives me hope! My plan was to have an airborne type army with koptas, jets, and stormboyz. Perhaps the Rad Rockets and Warboss Leadfoot Gas Chugga will have a chance after all...

Yea. I am thinking now of getting two trike bosses, one for each kopta wing, and multi-charging the crap out of the opponent on turn 1.

I think the koptas will survive in combat against most shooty units, and not too many have fall back and shoot (IG can, but will not get frfsrf.)

If I can fit them on the table around the bosses, I would also charge with trukks full of things. The opponent is going to be severely hampered (in my mind) and won't be able to do much against the trukks (and boy spillage). Then everything walks in on turn 2.

Yea! I win!

Now to actually play the game...

RedNoak wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
The codex isn't out though. How would do we know the points haven't dropped?
And logically, if they didn't change the points cost in the codex, then they aren't going to do it in chapter approved either, as that is scheduled to be released 2 months from now.

well first off some people had the codex (or some version of it) and thanks to the WWW some leaks are gonna happen

there was a vid from a french youtuber, he posted a game of new orks... codex army was 1750 points
if you crunch the number you get the same index army for about 1730ish points. one entry, a bike mob, was not mentioned properly. could have been normal bikers or nobbikers so maybe the index army would be around 1800 points.
either way... seems like there wont be a massive points drop across the board

What units were in the list? If they are going heavy on boyz that might just mean their point increase is leveling out with some of the drops across other units.

 JimOnMars wrote:

Obi_wang wrote:
This gives me hope! My plan was to have an airborne type army with koptas, jets, and stormboyz. Perhaps the Rad Rockets and Warboss Leadfoot Gas Chugga will have a chance after all...

Yea. I am thinking now of getting two trike bosses, one for each kopta wing, and multi-charging the crap out of the opponent on turn 1.

Good luck. Even with advance+charge 14" isn't enough to reliably T1 charge if enemy doesn't want to and even then only against chaff. With evil sunz it becomes bit more doable but again gunlines are often 30" or so away from enemy DZ line so...

I think the koptas will survive in combat against most shooty units, and not too many have fall back and shoot (IG can, but will not get frfsrf.)

Then again chaff losing shooting isn't big deal as they are chaff. Not shooty unit of death.

Evil Sunz stormboyz and DA JUMPED mobs have a pretty decent chance of T1. 13+1d6+1 = 15 inches minimum with an average of 17.5 then make a charge on 2d6 (re-rolling both or just one if the rumors are true) and adding +1 to the result is not a terribly unlikely thing to happen and in fact reliable if they deploy towards the line. Of course if they deploy back then you at least secure board control as they will be pinned in and you for sure are in T2.

The other option of course are blood axe stormboyz who will survive shooting a bit better but likely give up the T1, but still be auto in on turn 2.

 Tibs Ironblood wrote:
Evil Sunz stormboyz and DA JUMPED mobs have a pretty decent chance of T1. 13+1d6+1 = 15 inches minimum with an average of 17.5 then make a charge on 2d6 (re-rolling both or just one if the rumors are true) and adding +1 to the result is not a terribly unlikely thing to happen and in fact reliable if they deploy towards the line. Of course if they deploy back then you at least secure board control as they will be pinned in and you for sure are in T2.

The other option of course are blood axe stormboyz who will survive shooting a bit better but likely give up the T1, but still be auto in on turn 2.

17+2d6=24". Add in 1" average for decent odds(9" even with reroll is 50-50. NOT reliable) and you are still at 25". That is not enough UNLESS opponent wants you to. It was fashionable in '90's to deploy exactly on deployment zone line. These days though gunlines have realized it's better to deploy further back.

And if opponent deploys so that he allows you to do T1 charge...Well generally that means he WANTS you to do and in that case...Are you really sure you want to do what opponent is wanting you to do? Either he's providing you with targets that are irrelevant to lose(chaff) drawing your units out of support easily killed or they are units that will rip your chargers apart.

tneva82 wrote:

 Tibs Ironblood wrote:
Evil Sunz stormboyz and DA JUMPED mobs have a pretty decent chance of T1. 13+1d6+1 = 15 inches minimum with an average of 17.5 then make a charge on 2d6 (re-rolling both or just one if the rumors are true) and adding +1 to the result is not a terribly unlikely thing to happen and in fact reliable if they deploy towards the line. Of course if they deploy back then you at least secure board control as they will be pinned in and you for sure are in T2.

The other option of course are blood axe stormboyz who will survive shooting a bit better but likely give up the T1, but still be auto in on turn 2.

17+2d6=24". Add in 1" average for decent odds(9" even with reroll is 50-50. NOT reliable) and you are still at 25". That is not enough UNLESS opponent wants you to. It was fashionable in '90's to deploy exactly on deployment zone line. These days though gunlines have realized it's better to deploy further back.

And if opponent deploys so that he allows you to do T1 charge...Well generally that means he WANTS you to do and in that case...Are you really sure you want to do what opponent is wanting you to do? Either he's providing you with targets that are irrelevant to lose(chaff) drawing your units out of support easily killed or they are units that will rip your chargers apart.

You bring up some very good points that I largely agree with. To be fair to charge/advance distance though you are just as likely to get 18 as 17 and don't forget the +1 to the charge roll with the possibility of re-rolling one or both dice (though the rumors on this are very vague and probably false). I do however see your point about even if you can charge is it a good charge target. The extra mobility is still incredibly solid though and can really help in getting into position in the movement phase now that you can't charge over screens. Either way blood axes or evil sunz are almost always auto in t2 so perhaps that is another solid feather in the cap of the blood axes.

 Tibs Ironblood wrote:

RedNoak wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
The codex isn't out though. How would do we know the points haven't dropped?
And logically, if they didn't change the points cost in the codex, then they aren't going to do it in chapter approved either, as that is scheduled to be released 2 months from now.

well first off some people had the codex (or some version of it) and thanks to the WWW some leaks are gonna happen

there was a vid from a french youtuber, he posted a game of new orks... codex army was 1750 points
if you crunch the number you get the same index army for about 1730ish points. one entry, a bike mob, was not mentioned properly. could have been normal bikers or nobbikers so maybe the index army would be around 1800 points.
either way... seems like there wont be a massive points drop across the board

What units were in the list? If they are going heavy on boyz that might just mean their point increase is leveling out with some of the drops across other units.

posted it here

And yet there are plenty of armies without screens that also don't deploy further back like elves. If you're afraid of gunlines with bauble wraps. Well, deep strike in, kill chaff, 3 cp to fight again. Consolidate and get in mellee with the whole gunline. Anywayz, there are plenty of new opportunities. Ork betta strike is real.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Evil sunz are gona be the best pick for all those deepstrikers we're gona get. Besides, with regenerating mobz that will also have 2/3 chance (or better) to make successful charges i'm starting to think of actually adding a kff mek to the list to actually get a chance to regen a mob. 5++, 6+++ and ye got a bunch of damn 'ard to remove boyz. Think ye ain't making t1 charges and it's a bad strategy? Don't spend pts on stormboyz, get more boyz.

since we've never had Klan tactics I dont know how they work. Can I have Multiple tactics if I take multiple detachments? So for instance, my main detachment is Speed Freakz so they use evil sunz. But could I also take my Kommandos in a Blood Axe battalion or detachment and have them benefit from the Blood Axe Klan trait?

SemperMortis wrote:
since we've never had Klan tactics I dont know how they work. Can I have Multiple tactics if I take multiple detachments? So for instance, my main detachment is Speed Freakz so they use evil sunz. But could I also take my Kommandos in a Blood Axe battalion or detachment and have them benefit from the Blood Axe Klan trait?

Yeah. It's determined by detachment, so you could have three different Kultures if you have three detachments. So you could do Blood Axe kommandos and Bad Moons artillery alongside your Evil Sunz.

They just need to be a legal detachment on their own (so you'll need at least an hq, though two and a couple grot units for bonus cp never hurts).

 Trimarius wrote:

SemperMortis wrote:
since we've never had Klan tactics I dont know how they work. Can I have Multiple tactics if I take multiple detachments? So for instance, my main detachment is Speed Freakz so they use evil sunz. But could I also take my Kommandos in a Blood Axe battalion or detachment and have them benefit from the Blood Axe Klan trait?

Yeah. It's determined by detachment, so you could have three different Kultures if you have three detachments. So you could do Blood Axe kommandos and Bad Moons artillery alongside your Evil Sunz.

They just need to be a legal detachment on their own (so you'll need at least an hq, though two and a couple grot units for bonus cp never hurts).

How common is that in 40k? It seems like it will be a no-brainer for orks...does drukari do that much?

 JimOnMars wrote:

 Trimarius wrote:

SemperMortis wrote:
since we've never had Klan tactics I dont know how they work. Can I have Multiple tactics if I take multiple detachments? So for instance, my main detachment is Speed Freakz so they use evil sunz. But could I also take my Kommandos in a Blood Axe battalion or detachment and have them benefit from the Blood Axe Klan trait?

Yeah. It's determined by detachment, so you could have three different Kultures if you have three detachments. So you could do Blood Axe kommandos and Bad Moons artillery alongside your Evil Sunz.

They just need to be a legal detachment on their own (so you'll need at least an hq, though two and a couple grot units for bonus cp never hurts).

How common is that in 40k? It seems like it will be a no-brainer for orks...does drukari do that much?

Soup's basically just a more extreme version of this, so it's pretty common. Dark Eldar, since you mentioned them, are designed to do this, which is why they have that bonus to patrol cp. I'll often run a couple of different hive fleets in a Tyranid army (Kraken battalion for the 'stealer shock with a shooty/physic defense Chronos battalion, for example). Guard might run their tanks as one regiment and their foot-sloggers as another (assuming they don't ally in something, too).

Not everyone wants to break up their buffs or pay for more characters in mono-book armies, though, so not every book does it as well. And some people are against it on principle, too, of course.

 Trimarius wrote:

 JimOnMars wrote:

 Trimarius wrote:

SemperMortis wrote:
since we've never had Klan tactics I dont know how they work. Can I have Multiple tactics if I take multiple detachments? So for instance, my main detachment is Speed Freakz so they use evil sunz. But could I also take my Kommandos in a Blood Axe battalion or detachment and have them benefit from the Blood Axe Klan trait?

Yeah. It's determined by detachment, so you could have three different Kultures if you have three detachments. So you could do Blood Axe kommandos and Bad Moons artillery alongside your Evil Sunz.

They just need to be a legal detachment on their own (so you'll need at least an hq, though two and a couple grot units for bonus cp never hurts).

How common is that in 40k? It seems like it will be a no-brainer for orks...does drukari do that much?

Soup's basically just a more extreme version of this, so it's pretty common. Dark Eldar, since you mentioned them, are designed to do this, which is why they have that bonus to patrol cp. I'll often run a couple of different hive fleets in a Tyranid army (Kraken battalion for the 'stealer shock with a shooty/physic defense Chronos battalion, for example). Guard might run their tanks as one regiment and their foot-sloggers as another (assuming they don't ally in something, too).

Not everyone wants to break up their buffs or pay for more characters in mono-book armies, though, so not every book does it as well. And some people are against it on principle, too, of course.

With cheap HQs and the cheapest troops in the game, I can easily see a 3-brigade mixed ork list. Suns for vehicles and transports, Blood Axe assaulters, Bad Moons for shooting. Not sure whether walkers would be suns or axes...maybe even moons if they had enough shots.

Ork Soup should be a thing.

Hmmm, I’ve got Skullz and Freebootaz, hopefully there’s some synergy there. Not about to repaint ‘em or try to claim that all those ladz in blue and white are actually Sunz or something.

 koooaei wrote:
And yet there are plenty of armies without screens that also don't deploy further back like elves. If you're afraid of gunlines with bauble wraps. Well, deep strike in, kill chaff, 3 cp to fight again. Consolidate and get in mellee with the whole gunline. Anywayz, there are plenty of new opportunities. Ork betta strike is real.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Evil sunz are gona be the best pick for all those deepstrikers we're gona get. Besides, with regenerating mobz that will also have 2/3 chance (or better) to make successful charges i'm starting to think of actually adding a kff mek to the list to actually get a chance to regen a mob. 5++, 6+++ and ye got a bunch of damn 'ard to remove boyz. Think ye ain't making t1 charges and it's a bad strategy? Don't spend pts on stormboyz, get more boyz.

Oh sure once in a while you play against idiot. I hate to count doing that though

Just don't count on a t1 charge and that's it. Pretty darn reliable turn 2 charges now. Even regular boyz - especially evil sun ones - can make reluable t2 charges. And besides, half deployments are closer than 24" apart now.

im imagining a fun dreddmob list based on theory and what we know.

in evil swunz detachment
so ill have a fulle sqaud of manz, then a weirdboy to da jump them turn 2.
then have 3 deffdredds to put in telyport to port in on turn 2 (if 3 cant fit under 20pl after index then ill just throw in a gorkanaut)
while the enemy is bothering with a t2 megacharge there is a squad of 6 killakanz, a mork/gorkanaut, escorted by a defftrike (index bikemek with kff to cover these)
maybe have a megacharga mekadredd thrown in there.
add a bat detachment with grots for cp battery (maybe a bigmeksag deathskull for sniping)

admittedly 1st turn the main mob of kilakanz and the trike will have to endure enemy dakka, but by the time they are close to the enemy on turn 2 then the deepstrike comes in for some serious turn 2 charges

this is all theory, but a list i want to try to figure out on how to do when i get the codex. hopefully this might all fit in a 2000pt list

 JimOnMars wrote:

With cheap HQs and the cheapest troops in the game, I can easily see a 3-brigade mixed ork list. Suns for vehicles and transports, Blood Axe assaulters, Bad Moons for shooting. Not sure whether walkers would be suns or axes...maybe even moons if they had enough shots.

Ork Soup should be a thing.

It sure will be a thing. However, i think the clans are different here.

Deepstrikers: evil sunz are best here. +1 to charge is better than any other clan trait. However, if vehicles do get the rumored 3d6 charge, a deepstriking naught could be either blood axe, snakebite or maybe goffs for extra choppiness and nobz/meganobz inside.

Footslogging hordes: evil sunz for larger games again. You'll likely be running a couple kff meks and a painboy there, thus you do need extra speed. 4 extra inches of movement across 2 turns is a big deal. Also, extra charge range is great for outflanking regenerated mobz.
Optionally, it could be blood axes or deffskullz for 5+ armor or 6++ if you ain't bringing kff. Or goffs for Ghaz and knighthunting boyz. Snakebites...not sure. Probably not the best horde clan.

Speed freak and vehicle heavy lists are better off as snakebites or blood axes. They don't need extra speed but lack durability. The only exception is a squad of bikes for -1 to hit. However, bikes are srill meh.

Fire support: depending on which units you take it's either deffskullz or bad moonz. I think deffskullz are better for kmk. Arguably. They are undoubtedly better for trukkbustas though.

Fire support -

Bad Moon Lootas with the 5+ DDD strat. Gold, Jerry! Gold!

Aaaah why are all the Ork clans so cool!! I've always been Loota heavy, with mixed foot slogging, and trukks.

Im not sure which direction to go! Might have to go neutral and do a desert theme.

 Nightlord1987 wrote:
Aaaah why are all the Ork clans so cool!! I've always been Loota heavy, with mixed foot slogging, and trukks.

Im not sure which direction to go! Might have to go neutral and do a desert theme.

Yeah, it's definitely not as cut-and-dry as some of the other army traits, and I do want to keep my army thematic when it comes to how they're painted. I'm glad I chose Deffskullz as my main faction, but they don't synergize very well with the dred mob I have.

For those not following along on stream or N&R -

Kustom Boosta Blasta is 100
Bikes are 23
Boyz are 7

BW has 3 variants. One is a gunboat with BS4.

KFF is units not models and 9"

(KFF is units not models and 9")

...but still "wholly within", right?

Was hoping bikes would go down more, but a lot of the klan traits make them a lot more palatable as a unit, particularly blood axes and evil sunz.

Cool that the BW has more variants so that we can run a blitz brigade without having to worry about the rule of 3 coming in. Hopefully the Killkannon gets a bit of a buff so the 4+ BS variant is worth taking.

 ZoBo wrote:
(KFF is units not models and 9")

...but still "wholly within", right?

No, I don't think so - otherwise it would be models.

Flashgitz are BS4 now. Captain is BS3. Gun better, but I missed the details.

Regen strat is confirmed.
DDD 5+ strat is confirmed.