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Anyone else catch the brief reference to ‘Quark of Ferengenar’?

As for Mr Vup, his makeup kept reminding me of something. Turns out, it was Marilyn Manson from Bo Selecta. Mostly because of the mouth movements

I was watching Trekyard's review and they were talking about the bodycount of New Trek.

They've got a point.

Sure, people died in previous versions, but they were nearly always just Redshirts and mooks. Sure, obstacles could been overcome far more quickly with liberal phaser use on setting 8, but it didn't go that way. People talked, negotiated and reasoned their way through the problem.

Nowadays, people just get a phaser (or sword) for being in the way. It's all a bit Altered Carbon, which is cool and all, just not particularly Trekky.

Up to E4 and still really struggling with this.
Realised that it dosent know what it wants to actually be.

The subplot of creepy romulan guy tries to seduce robot girls is utter zzzz at this point and basically needs to be removed altogether.

 Chillreaper wrote:
I was watching Trekyard's review and they were talking about the bodycount of New Trek.

They've got a point.

Sure, people died in previous versions, but they were nearly always just Redshirts and mooks. Sure, obstacles could been overcome far more quickly with liberal phaser use on setting 8, but it didn't go that way. People talked, negotiated and reasoned their way through the problem.

Nowadays, people just get a phaser (or sword) for being in the way. It's all a bit Altered Carbon, which is cool and all, just not particularly Trekky.

I think they’re going with a bit of a “fall of Rome” thing, with the collapse of the Romulan Empire and the Mars disaster having seriously (perhaps critically) destabilised the Federation.

Still enjoying it.

Jeri Ryan was great and looks great too - interesting story and definatly would enjoy reading/ watching more of her as a vigilante - especially enjoyed her

Agreed the story is meandering along and in tone seems like a cross between original series and DS9 - its certainly better than 2nd season of Discovery IMO.

The violence is on par with OS as well - especially the films.

In tersm of the big plot -

 Jadenim wrote:

 Chillreaper wrote:
I was watching Trekyard's review and they were talking about the bodycount of New Trek.

They've got a point.

Sure, people died in previous versions, but they were nearly always just Redshirts and mooks. Sure, obstacles could been overcome far more quickly with liberal phaser use on setting 8, but it didn't go that way. People talked, negotiated and reasoned their way through the problem.

Nowadays, people just get a phaser (or sword) for being in the way. It's all a bit Altered Carbon, which is cool and all, just not particularly Trekky.

I think they’re going with a bit of a “fall of Rome” thing, with the collapse of the Romulan Empire and the Mars disaster having seriously (perhaps critically) destabilised the Federation.

I get the impression that the Federation is doing alright, just not along the cold-war style boarder with the Romulans, which they've basically abandoned. I don't get a sense that the Federation itself is as yet under threat nor even that its destabilised to any great degree. If anything its just given the whole incident the massive cold shoulder and moved on with itself. Abandoning the Neutral Zone worlds mostly to the Rangers and not much else; whilst also leaving the Romulans to sort their own situation out. We've not really seen nor heard of any other major problems in the Federation, remembering that this is a good decade and a half after the Dominion War.

If anything is under threat its the ideals of the Federation rather than the Federation as a functional political power body.


The Dominion War challenged the Federation with its first major interstellar conflict on a large scale. The Borg were similar, but thus far every incursion we've seen of them is a bit like Tyranid Hive Fleets - a single massive Cube or smaller single ships striking into worlds. Rather than multiple cubes hitting on multiple fronts. Meanwhile most other war situations were often overcome through diplomacy or through a single show of force. Furthermore against all those odds the Federation rose up and managed to win. We might also assume that after the events of the Dominion War and Voyagers adventures, the Federation might have more capable military ships now than it had in the past. Remembering that the Defiant, whilst a powerful warship, was still a very small craft and that the Nemesis film really did show how their larger ships are very under-prepared for an actual opposing army that builds an actual warship. Whilst we've not seen it, the Federation could have warships at the ready now.

The Romulan disaster appears to have challenged the Federation with its first major interstellar humanitarian project and by all accounts they've failed to achieve their full potential. Both in the initial run and in the fallout of the event.

Mr Morden, I just read your first spoiler and I have to ask: that string of words was supposed to describe a character on Star Trek, right?

I guess Chakitay’s finally gained some character.

I'm glad I wasn't the only one that saw an extra bit of subtext tension going on there...


Although, more logically, Chakotay being a senior, or Founding member of the Fenrisian Rangers definitely seems like a thing that could have happened...

 Overread wrote:

The Romulan disaster appears to have challenged the Federation with its first major interstellar humanitarian project

Uh...no?
There have been dozens of those. Have some examples:

https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Humanitarianism

Voss wrote:

 Overread wrote:

The Romulan disaster appears to have challenged the Federation with its first major interstellar humanitarian project

Uh...no?
There have been dozens of those. Have some examples:

https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Humanitarianism

Are any of those even close to being on the same scale as evacuating an entire solar system (the home system of a major interstellar empire) before a supernova?
As Overread stated in the full text you cut short, the Federation ultimately failed in this endeavour. And when put to the test, they failed it morally, as well.

It’s too much of a pain to do a proper quote on the iPad, but this is what I was thinking about:

“If anything is under threat its the ideals of the Federation rather than the Federation as a functional political power body.”

If the Federation abandons it’s ideals, then it isn’t the Federation anymore, just another two-bit empire. They’ve abandoned hundreds of worlds to lawlessness and vigilante rule, they’ve got former senior Starfleet officers living in drug-laced poverty on Earth and they are turning a blind eye to, if not actively supporting, a foreign power’s black-ops kill team on Earth.

Federation’s got problems man.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, I would watch the hell out of a Jeri Ryan fronted “Rangers of Fenris” series...

The thing is, how completely different is that from what they did in the Cardassian Demilitarised Zone that caused the rise of the Maquis?

I think the 'ideals' argument is the right one. Hopefully they'll show some more hints that the Federation still has then and there being frustrated by the Not so secretly evil bad guys though.

The Maquis were a much smaller band of rebels on a handful of worlds that weren't densely populated. By and large they were early colonists who left the Federation; colonised worlds and then came under threat from the Cardassians. Basically operating outside of Federation space and in a political situation where there was friction with Cardassia.

The Federation has never really been a military might of the kind to "police space" outside of its own boarders. They've never gone for a more overt attack and defend policy. In many ways this saved them because it meant that they could hold boarders against races like the Romulans and Cardassians without as much threat of invasion. Hostile as those races were, the Federation wasn't "pushing" that hostility.


The Romulan disaster is a whole different matter. Here the prime hostile race reached out for help; furthermore the fallout from the supernova has left them crippled. With the Romulans pulling back and the Federation doing so at the same time; both have left the old Neutral Zone. Federation has some presence in the Rangers, but clearly not enough to hold law and order. In short its a corner they've abandoned which eats at the very morals and ideals upon which the Federation has prided itself; built itself and also "marketed" to the other races.

 Compel wrote:
The thing is, how completely different is that from what they did in the Cardassian Demilitarised Zone that caused the rise of the Maquis?

I think the 'ideals' argument is the right one. Hopefully they'll show some more hints that the Federation still has then and there being frustrated by the Not so secretly evil bad guys though.

In some ways I think that’s the tipping point that started the Federation down this path; once you get used to the idea of sacrificing your high ideals for real politik, you’re going to keep edging further away from that idealism.

I also remember a certain legendary' captains initial reponse to the Praxis disaster - "let them die" - its a human repsonse, and for all the token aliens on screen the Federation hads always been a human institution.

Jeri Ryan needs to make that show

 Jadenim wrote:

 Compel wrote:
The thing is, how completely different is that from what they did in the Cardassian Demilitarised Zone that caused the rise of the Maquis?

I think the 'ideals' argument is the right one. Hopefully they'll show some more hints that the Federation still has then and there being frustrated by the Not so secretly evil bad guys though.

In some ways I think that’s the tipping point that started the Federation down this path; once you get used to the idea of sacrificing your high ideals for real politik, you’re going to keep edging further away from that idealism.

We’re also only really seeing high end Federation/Starfleet politics, rather than shipboard. So the attitudes encountered might’ve been there all along?

 Tannhauser42 wrote:

Voss wrote:

 Overread wrote:

The Romulan disaster appears to have challenged the Federation with its first major interstellar humanitarian project

Uh...no?
There have been dozens of those. Have some examples:

https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Humanitarianism

Are any of those even close to being on the same scale as evacuating an entire solar system (the home system of a major interstellar empire) before a supernova?
As Overread stated in the full text you cut short, the Federation ultimately failed in this endeavour. And when put to the test, they failed it morally, as well.

Yeah, but they only reason they failed in either regard is because the premise of this show is Sir Patrick Stewart's hubris is required to save us all from the grimderp he added to a setting of hope and optimism.

Quibbling over what counts as a 'major project' is missing the point.

The Federation has been dying of internal rot since TNG.

When Starfleet had been infiltrated by alien worm-things.
Then more than a few "questionable" decisions made during the Dominion war (We can only win by committing genocide on the other side - the changeling virus).

Then the dodgy-brothers dealings in Insurrection (sell out the inhabitants of fountain-of-youth planet ).

Wouldn't it be nice if at the end of Picard we find out that it was the alien worm-things all along that were still there and causing the Federation's internal rot?

Now we’re really getting places!

Precisely my thoughts!

Did you guys see the RLM tweet about Icheb? Did that really happen?

I “can’t wait” for Barclay’s doubtlessly-inevitable graphic rape scene. But is he victim or perpetrator? Stay tuned to find out. Star Trek!

The what now?

In terms of this episodes sudden action and speed?

As I’ve said before, the show runners have the difficult task of....

A) Getting the point
B) Coming up with a pint that’s actually interesting
C) Also canon fitting
D) Filling us in on 20 odd years of history.

This episode? This is what I hope is the beginning of the pay off for the viewer.

Much as I’ve enjoyed all of it, I’m glad we’re now getting a faster pace, and my faith appears to be being rewarded.

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
Did you guys see the RLM tweet about Icheb? Did that really happen?

I “can’t wait” for Barclay’s doubtlessly-inevitable graphic rape scene. But is he victim or perpetrator? Stay tuned to find out. Star Trek!

Yeah I have no idea what you’re talking about.

Whee!

Now we're talking. First half of season one is slow, scene setting and possibly getting to care about the odd character; second half is things happening.

To be fair, it worked on me, because I actually did care about what was going to happen to a couple of them right at the end.

It's like the Fellowship of the Ring - even more so in book form. If you base your view of Lord of the Rings based on its slow start you miss all that it sets up.

 Overread wrote:
It's like the Fellowship of the Ring - even more so in book form. If you base your view of Lord of the Rings based on its slow start you miss all that it sets up.

I haven’t read those books (crucify me later).

But film wise? Yes.

Now, if the mods could allow me a very small swear?

What a delight it was to see Picard still full of piss and vinegar toward The Borg.....

Doubly so when he met Hugh and began to reassess his values,

That? That is the Picard I know and love. A man of prejudice, as we all are, but with a mind open enough to be proven wrong. Would that our entire species, regardless of political preference could be so wise,

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:

 Overread wrote:
It's like the Fellowship of the Ring - even more so in book form. If you base your view of Lord of the Rings based on its slow start you miss all that it sets up.

I haven’t read those books (crucify me later).

No no I think the time is now!! Clearly you've managed to avoid your punishment for far too long!!

Still you could redeem yourself! You can start with The Hobbit - heck if I recall right you could even make a double start and read the story with/to the sproglet that I recall you mentioning. Along with exposing to proper 80-90s cartoons its a duty to make sure that the foundation of so much fantasy is revealed to them as well!

Plus you could get one of those fancy illustrated editions of the books

 AduroT wrote:

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
Did you guys see the RLM tweet about Icheb? Did that really happen?

I “can’t wait” for Barclay’s doubtlessly-inevitable graphic rape scene. But is he victim or perpetrator? Stay tuned to find out. Star Trek!

Yeah I have no idea what you’re talking about.

Now I have seen footage of it. Icheb gets tortured and mutilated, and has to be mercy-killed by Seven. This motivates her to become a vigilante, killing his torturers, and Picard turns a blind eye. If you don’t see why this is a problem for a Star Trek show, I don’t know what to tell you.