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So just finished the last season of season of Discovery. Ya , I know it’s been a while but I didn’t want to get Paramount+ for a show I didn’t really like that much. It was an ok season I guess but the ending was kind of weird. There’s sort of three endings.

The two episode premier of LD S5 is out today.

Booyah!

 KamikazeCanuck wrote:
So just finished the last season of season of Discovery. Ya , I know it’s been a while but I didn’t want to get Paramount+ for a show I didn’t really like that much. It was an ok season I guess but the ending was kind of weird. There’s sort of three endings.

Spoiler:

The ending the the usual saving the universe storyline which was fine. Then the flash forward to Burnham’s happy ever after ending - also fine. But then why does she have to go out with Discovery to the middle of no where by herself? Seems like a plot seed that is not a plot seed?

beast_gts wrote:

 KamikazeCanuck wrote:
So just finished the last season of season of Discovery. Ya , I know it’s been a while but I didn’t want to get Paramount+ for a show I didn’t really like that much. It was an ok season I guess but the ending was kind of weird. There’s sort of three endings.

Spoiler:

The ending the the usual saving the universe storyline which was fine. Then the flash forward to Burnham’s happy ever after ending - also fine. But then why does she have to go out with Discovery to the middle of no where by herself? Seems like a plot seed that is not a plot seed?

Spoiler:

Burnham’s happy ever after was added when it was confirmed that it would be the last ever episode, and Discovery was left unmanned in deep space to fulfil the Short Trek episode Calypso.

Oh ok. Thanks. I didn't even know about these Short Treks. Seems like something that should be on Youtube but are not...


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 AduroT wrote:
Booyah!

I second this Booyah.

New LD day.

It's hard to say much about it. It doesn't have the chance to get dramatic moments like other Trek that stick in your memory but it's a real good laugh every time.
It's goofy and that's perfect because you can't appreciate Trek without going "well that's just silly" and enjoying it.

On the one hand, I always wanted them to address the Jennifer situation after Season 3.

On the other hand, this was not what I expected and it's kind of so dumb it's neither dramatic or funny. Like the end of it was good imo, but the set up and follow through was largely stupid in an eye rollingly this is dumb kind of way.

The Boimler side plot was just funny because Ransom is like the Randy Marsh of Lower Decks except they never showed him so much they overused him and made him no longer funny.

But on the whole the episode was a bit meh.

I liked it. We’ve been given our season issue with the parallel universe breaches.

Heck yeah, Klingon culture episode.

Not related to newer shows, but I put on TOS in the background recently and I have to say that Sulu's character arc from Bailey's replacement (The Corbomite Maneuver) to being the captain of a starship that proclaims 'Fly her apart then!' in The Undiscovered Country is easily my favorite character development from TOS. It's funny to compare him to Chekov because from the start Sulu is relatively no-nonsense and competent while Chekov is a goofball well into the films. They didn't go all in on character development in the same manner as modern TV, but TOS had some interesting, understated character writing as far as secondary and tertiary characters went.

Except for the women. Through the first 12 episodes of s1 and it's worse than I remembered.

There's a persistent rumor that women were hired according to how the performed on Rodenberry's casting couch.

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:
There's a persistent rumor that women were hired according to how the performed on Rodenberry's casting couch.

There’s an even darker rumor relating that rumor to the unnamed executive who…let’s say caused Grace Lee Whitney’s departure.

I don’t know if it’s good or bad that Roddenberry didn’t survive to the Me Too era.

ASIAK, it's not really a rumor anymore and more of a known open secret from the time Rodenberry worked on the shows. I remember reading through Memory Alpha way back 20 years ago when the site was first going up and there were whole sections on some episodes discussing the behind the scenes rumors on what was going down and at this point since Rodenberry has passed others have come out and essentially confirmed that's what happened.

Sulu and Chekhov's arcs are going an interesting way with the movies

Like Sulu being the one working hard to get a captains chair and when he is almost there out of friendship with Kirk needs to start from scratch and again makes it even getting the ship he wants

while Chekov somehow want to outsmart everyone and be in command from the start makes to to 1st officer and gets stuck there after brain damage and it might be the friendship with Kirk as the only reason why he is still an officer on active duty

and for Grace Lee Whitney, her character made it from NCO in TOS and TMP to Lieutenant Commander on the Excelsior

Seems Sonak’s demise gave her that Tapestry epiphany on the fleeting nature of life.

“Oh no, they’re forming. …Wellp, guess I’ll stop dawdling on my career.”


That Chekov observation is brilliant. I’d never put his Ceti Alpha Eel trauma together with his later-series character, but it explains a lot.

“She has wonderful muscles.” —not Fleet Admiral Pavel Chekov.

*weeps in Ensign Harry Kim*

 LordofHats wrote:
ASIAK, it's not really a rumor anymore and more of a known open secret from the time Rodenberry worked on the shows. I remember reading through Memory Alpha way back 20 years ago when the site was first going up and there were whole sections on some episodes discussing the behind the scenes rumors on what was going down and at this point since Rodenberry has passed others have come out and essentially confirmed that's what happened.

Not trying to downplay or excuse Roddenberry's behaviour, but I'm pretty sure that was just business as usual across the board for Hollywood at the time.
By all accounts it didn't change much until recently, and it wouldn't surprise me at all if it still hasn't changed much in reality.

It still is imo. Maybe not as overtly, but I don't think the current generation of producers, actors, and crews will be spared some of them turning out to have a real unsavory side to them in 20 plus years when any interest in obscuring it has faded.

Still can talk about anything star trek in here? Sat down and watched the motion picture the other day with my son, it was a fun experience. The kids still mostly will only sit down to watch TAS, but I'm trying to get them to watch TOS.

You can try and get them on prodigy. it's on Netflix now.

I only just watched the first season of Picard recently, after watching all five seasons of Discovery. Discovery was very meh, there were some good moments but overall it was more spectacle than substance. Picard, at least the first season, was a bit better. I've heard season 2 was less good, but I'll get myself through it.

 ZergSmasher wrote:
I only just watched the first season of Picard recently, after watching all five seasons of Discovery. Discovery was very meh, there were some good moments but overall it was more spectacle than substance. Picard, at least the first season, was a bit better. I've heard season 2 was less good, but I'll get myself through it.

I could not stomach Discovery by the end of Season 2 - Picard had some really good ideas and characters - and some truely awful ones - Rafaella Musiker stands out as one of the worst in ST for me.....

But a lot depends on what you like

To be fair Rafaella is basically a "broken" character and a very rare example of an addict with a broken past that we see in Star Trek. Personally I think its a challenging role to play because a lot of elements will end up with her doing things and having attitudes that are not your ST norm and are not endearing.

I do like the character overall, but it’s always bugged me she just sort of…turns up as a character.

Granted I can only immediately think of Vash as an alternative from TNG, but it was still a bit jarring to have someone entirely new.

True, its one of those "she was never there but she always was" characters which can make her hard to like. Then again Picard Season 1 is set a good chunk of time after TNG that there's certainly room for growth of new relations and all.

Plus Picard was openly trying to avoid contacting and abusing his privileges toward his old crew. So it fits that he'd reach out to friends and such that we likely wouldn't have seen through his TNG time period and life.


I think the only sad thing is that we never see her really revisit her family after season 1. Which is honestly a little bit of a failing of all 3 seasons - a lot of the sub and main plots get introduced and resolved but never revisited.

Thinking a bit further? Ro could be another candidate (though she does turn up eventually).

She had a tumultuous relationship with Picard, and was of course intended to take Kira Nerys’ role in DS9.

Given she nicked off to infiltrate, and later join, The Maquis, there’s a potential “redemption” arc there (though whilst many of their actions were reprehensible, the Maquis’ fight was not without genuine moral merit).

Personally the only real continuation I want from Picard are

I’d like to see Discovery discounted almost entirely.

It definitely had its moments, particularly with the Mirror Universe*. But the future stuff was particularly if not spectacularly dull.

So….the Burn was caused by a Kelpian throwing a tantrum? K

Oh and our nacelles are now all floaty, because programmable matter? K

And whilst it hurtled waaaaaay into the future? It’s still set stuff in stone which doesn’t need to be set in stone. If they do another series following on from Picard, we know a bunch of stuff that now can’t happen.

But then, I still wish they’d properly followed up on post-Dominion War Alpha Quadrant. That war fundamentally altered the balance of power, and saw previously unseen levels of cooperation between the three big players by getting the Romulans onboard.

Picard does (again, eventually) pick up some of those pieces. But where’s the exploration and cooperation in the Gamma Quadrant? What happened to the Dominion after it was forced to stand down?

DS9 left a powerful legacy that I don't think any writer has wanted to dare challenge or try to work with. Picard is the closest we get to anything really exploring the aftershock and effects.

I guess part of the issue is that a LOT of the actors have moved on and got older. Bringing them together is not easy - heck it seems like it took 2 full seasons of Picard before they could get a good chunk of the old crew together for season 3.


It's hard to really explore DS9 without having Sisco, Kira, Odo and others appear. Even if just in supporting roles.
Because in the end its not just the story we want its also seeing where those characters went because they were so pivotal in the story.

Could always do a semi-cameo type thing.

Last time we saw Sisko, he went to be with the Prophets, at least for a while.

Now I understand the actor has shied away from Trek since, so getting him back for a series seems….unlikely. But a first episode cameo, as we had with Picard at the start of DS9? That might be an appealing prospect with a big enough bag o’cash.

Of course, Rene Auberjonois is no longer with us, and I’m not sure anyone else could convincingly play Odo, despite the whole “he’s a shapeshifter so could be a talking chair I suppose”.

I do think Trek has suffered from the change to TV viewing habits since its 90’s heyday.

TOS, TNG, and Voyager were all entirely episodic. Yes they had set history, and that informed what came after. And DS9, like Babylon 5 was an early trailblazer in arcing storylines and strong (like, staggeringly strong, to the point it’s rarely been equalled, let alone better) character development.

But now? Arcing shows, and the desire for people to binge watch, are kind of the norm. And not all such shows are equal.

We also have far shorter seasons on streaming, as you don’t need that syndication episode count. Sometimes that’s good, as it means less filler guff made just to up the count. Sometimes though? It means those odd, intended to be one-off characters and episodes which caught the audience interest are trimmed out. Though of course that thought is purely speculative, on account I’m arguing that something wasn’t made would’ve been ace.

And I think that’s where DS9 really found its strength. The arcing stories and character developments were solid. But some of its best moments came from the asides and B plots.

Immediate thoughts there turn to Quark, Rom, Nog, Ishka and Grand Nagus Zeke. In fact, most if not all Ferengi centric episodes were really enjoyable, but didn’t often tie into the main plots.

They did however provide significant development to one of the lesser powers, and indeed one which was frankly laughable when it first started out in TNG. It turned them into one of the most interesting and detailed cultures in the Alpha Quadrant, and some of the more interesting characters.

Just think. If Quark, Rom and Nog all remained just background bit players? We’d have missed out on the Root Beer analogy, and Quark’s (entirely accurate) observations about humanity and its failings.

Those scenes were reflective, and showed us how other species view the Federation.










Three scenes, all Quark centric. All really interesting insights which, if he had remained a background second fiddle, we’d have been denied.