Forgeworld Huge Price Spike

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**Asmodios**

The problem in GW has always had FW priced as the "elite" or "high end" models of their line. GWs increased pricing over time as well as larger plastic kits have kinda forced FW to up the price to maintain this status. Anyone whos taken some basic business classes can tell you that the psychology to perceive a more expensive item as "better" or "more elite". IMO the smart long-term strategy would be to normalize the pricing between GW and FW and have FW offer more customizable options like they do with rhino doors and transfer sheets now. Do lots of limited runs of small unique stuff for specific armies. that way its essentially adding a "tax" to make an army unique which is something most people try to do with their army.

I was at the new citadel opening here in Texas this morning and there were tons of people complaining about the pricing and openly talking about buying from china. I honestly feel that this was a huge mistake. Even more than raising the price just the fact that the US is being screwed over for no real reason

**Excommunicatus**

FWIW, I bought Zarakynel on March 11, 2018. I paid £163.10, including shipping and HST, which converts to $289.47 CAD using the exchange rate from that date.

Today, Zarakynel would cost me $220.35 CAD, including shipping and HST.

So...

**Elbows**

"So..."

What you've done here is what several other posters have done. Yes, a handful of models are cheaper. Most are not. I don't think anyone cares about singular model samples, they're more concerned with the general pricing trend which has gone up, not down.

**Blastaar**

Excommunicatus wrote:
FWIW, I bought Zarakynel on March 11, 2018. I paid £163.10, including shipping and HST, which converts to $289.47 CAD using the exchange rate from that date.

Today, Zarakynel would cost me $220.35 CAD, including shipping and HST.

So...

So... outliers do not prove the mean.

**Baragash**

Banville wrote:
Bellerophon wrote:
I sympathise with you non-UKers, but something like this was inevitable if they introduced regional pricing. I’m going to compare with USD given that applies to most of you here, but the same logic applies to other currencies too. I’ve just had a browse around the main GW site and the FW site, switching between GBP and USD, and it looks as though they’re applying pretty much the same conversion as they do for the rest of their products – the USD price is the GBP price multiplied by something in the region of 1.6 or 1.7, then adjusted to a round-looking number.

It’s effectively a FW price hike for you guys because the GBP is weak at the moment, but you’ve been at the mercy of exchange rates whenever thinking about ordering FW. Just a quick search shows that in August 2015, the GBP was worth nearly 1.6 USD – so the new FW US prices are the same as what you would have paid if you had ordered three years ago. In August 2008 you could get very nearly 2 USD for 1 GBP – so you’d have been getting the better deal with these prices. With the admittedly small number of data points above, the fact that the GBP has been worth anything from a little over 1USD to 2USD over the last 10 years should be a clear explanation for why they’ve set the general USD prices across GW the way they have.

The GBP may go up again. It may even go up again enough that you’re better off with the regional prices, though given the uncertainty surrounding the looming Brexit I doubt that will happen any time soon. You’ve had a period of unusually “cheap” FW with the weak GBP, and it’s unfortunate that it’s had to come to an end.

This is always going to be an issue with regional pricing vs ordering direct from the country of origin. Any company setting regional prices doesn’t want to have to fluctuate them as the exchange rate changes, so they’re always going to want to set them based on the normal long-term variation of exchange rates between the two currencies such that they can make a satisfactory profit unless the exchange rate goes nuts. In addition to the exchange rate, they need to factor in warehousing and distribution, freight, customs, import duties and any other local taxes. Plus, if their analyists are worth their salt they’ll take into account local competition, popularity in the market, and then average wages and disposable income of their likely customers in the market. It’s the local conditions that mean price comparisons between countries difficult to make. It may be irritating to learn that you’re paying more in USD than a British collector does in GBP – but then I believe the average American earns a fair bit more than the average Brit, so that might make them think that you can afford to pay more. Are wargamers ‘average’? You’d have to ask the analysts.

It’s perhaps important to bring up Brexit again, since it might be a driver in this. It seems more likely that the UK will crash out of the EU without a deal in place, potentially reverting to WTO rules rather than bilateral trade deals, which may increase the costs for British companies exporting goods. It may be that GW looked at their figures, realised that they were making less profit off FW than they could be if they expanded their regional pricing policy to cover it, and that post-Brexit conditions threaten to eat a bit more of the profit margin away. It’s easy to see why the accountants might want to apply the local prices and boost the profit margins now so that the post-Brexit figures don’t look so ominous.

I feel like I should also say something about who to blame for this. It’s easy to see that FW prices have gone up and then rage at FW as an entity, but I reckon this has GW accountancy department written all over it.

A thousand per cent this. FW and GW aren't gouging people while twirling moustaches. They're responding to a pretty dire economic fallout coming down the tracks by trying to get ahead of it.

Our friends in the UK crashing out of the EU is going to have a serious effect on pricing and import duties. I'm in my late 30s and the older I get, the more I realise that voting for stuff actually has a genuine impact on my day to day life.

No.

Before the change GW bore no currency risk because paying £X for anything was paying £X for anything regardless of the prevailing exchange rate.

GW introduced currency risk to the equation by switching purchases to local currencies, then insulated themselves against that risk by slapping a premium on the current rate such that there would have to be a highly significant movement in the economic landscape to mean they receive less than £X for the product.

**Mulletdude**

This is another reason I will not buy anything from Forge World. We're all comparing prices from different regions, completely oblivious to the fact that the prices on FW's site are including the 20% VAT. Even looking at the 5 year high for conversion rate between GBP & USD, which is 1.71, the prices are laughably too high.

For example, a Sicaran is 79 GBP on UK FW. This includes the 20% VAT, as is required over there. 79 GBP converted at 1.71 USD per GBP is $134, which is what I pay with tax for that model (8.25% tax in my state). So this is essentially being taxed twice. Once from VAT, the other from my state. At the 5 year GBP->USD conversion ratio high of 1.71.

The base price for a Sicaran is 66 GBP (w/o VAT). This 66 converted at the year high of 1.43 is only approx $94, which is still really high for a model, but more in line with something I would consider paying. What we actually see on the storefront is $123. Even with extra shipping costs and costs for maintaining a warehouse in the US, this is too high.

TLDR: I'm tired of these prices including VAT when I don't live in Europe.

**Bellerophon**

Baragash wrote:
No.

Before the change GW bore no currency risk because paying £X for anything was paying £X for anything regardless of the prevailing exchange rate.

GW introduced currency risk to the equation by switching purchases to local currencies, then insulated themselves against that risk by slapping a premium on the current rate such that there would have to be a highly significant movement in the economic landscape to mean they receive less than £X for the product.

Yes, this is true. I wasn't arguing against this point and indeed I wasn't trying to argue in favour of the change. In the first sentence of my post I stated that this was inevitible if they introduced regional pricing. The main thrust of my argument was around why they set the prices at the levels they did, since some people seem to think that they should just be paying, say, USD prices as determined by the current exchange rate. I was also trying to get to the bottom of why they decided to introduce it, rather than just complaining.

Non-UK Forgeworld buyers have had it good for the last couple of years because of the weak GBP. It may not seem that way because this stuff is still very expensive for what it is, but in real terms they were getting a better deal. Unfortunately people quickly get used to a good thing and then feel entitled for it to continue, hence the outrage now that GW have pulled this move. Kind of like how (still using the USA as an example), they're used to paying 1.6x the GBP price for Citadel plastic, but find the idea of paying 1.6x the GBP price for Forgeworld resin to be unacceptable - because until last week they didn't have to pay that much. While it's true that GW have introduced currency risk with this move, at the moment the weak GBP means that this is a big win for them on each and every sale and it's expected to continue for some time. Will sales go down? I suspect they'll see an immediate dip as people vent their anger over this move, but I'm not sure long term. It might also be a victim of its own success. I could easily see a slightly misleading feedback loop forming: Weak GBP > FW more attractive to overseas buyers > FW sales go up > GW thinks there is an increased demand for FW > GW pulls FW into its local pricing structure to better integrate its sales channels with the rest of the business, not realising that they're killing the price advantage that made sales increase in the first place. I can only assume the reason that FW wasn't sold in local currency to begin with was because it was such a small part of their business that they hadn't bothered introducing it yet. If they had increased sales, it was always likely to happen.

The annual investor reports are a good source of what they gain/lose overall according to currency fluctuations. For 2016/17 in particular (since the Brexit vote was mid-2016 and caused a plunge in the value of GBP), the average rates they determine earnings from dropped for both EUR and USD (1.35EUR 2016 to 1.17 EUR 2017. amd 1.49USD 2016 to 1.27USD 2017), and they state that those changes increased their operating profit by £7 million. You can be sure that at least one accountant was looking at the Forgeworld numbers and realised that they could have increased that figure a bit more if FW was sold in local currency. I also suspect that GW have an eye on Brexit coming up, are aware that it's going to impact on their profit margins once it kicks in and therefore they're doing everything they can to maximise their profit margins right now. In Kevin Rountree's review of the year in the 2017-18 report, he has one paragraph where he pretty much says that it will be difficult for them to continue to grow at the same rate as the last couple of years, and it makes sense. The rapid rate of releases over the last couple of years suggests to me that they're trying to maximise profit now in the good times (weak pound, pre-Brexit conditions), to insulate a little bit against the harder times ahead. GW is a squirrel burying its nuts for winter.

**Excommunicatus**

Elbows wrote:
"So..."

What you've done here is what several other posters have done. Yes, a handful of models are cheaper. Most are not. I don't think anyone cares about singular model samples, they're more concerned with the general pricing trend which has gone up, not down.

Cool story, that you didn't even bother trying to support with anything but a grossly generalized comment devoid of any facts.

I'm all in favour of 'price spikes' that would save me $60. YMMV and frankly I don't really give a rat's if your price went up, just like you don't care that mine went down.

Don't buy FW if you can't afford FW. Super simple.

**Adeptus Doritos**

Excommunicatus wrote:
Cool story, that you didn't even bother trying to support with anything but a grossly generalized comment devoid of any facts.

I'm not certain you understand how this works. He doesn't have to write you a research paper. Countless other posters have demonstrated the price change. All he said is just because a single purchase works in your favor doesn't make it universally a good thing. I'm assuming this is your first Forge World purchase. Congratulations, but I hate to break it to you- you are not a part of some elite club.

Excommunicatus wrote:
I'm all in favour of 'price spikes' that would save me $60. YMMV and frankly I don't really give a rat's if your price went up, just like you don't care that mine went down. Don't buy FW if you can't afford FW. Super simple.

This is why I'm in favor of another blanket ban on Forge World. And I say this as someone who owns a LOT of Forge World stuff.

Don't be a jerk if you want to play a social game with other people. Super simple.

Now, how about you try to order something different- try and compare ordering a Fellblade and a Sicaran before and after the price change.

**LoyalGuardsman69**

Here's what FW wants the exchange rate to be vs what it is:

Notice how favorable things were for them back in 2008. Americans were on their knees, many without jobs, scrambling to make ends meet or provide for their families. Did FW lock in an exchange rate to protect their friends across the atlantic then? No- they kicked us when we were down.

Now that the tables have turned, and England is in shambles, they want us to pretend like their currency has the same value it did 3 years ago. Well not me- 1776 will commence again.

**Excommunicatus**

Adeptus Doritos wrote:

I'm not certain you understand how this works. He doesn't have to write you a research paper. Countless other posters have demonstrated the price change. All he said is just because a single purchase works in your favor doesn't make it universally a good thing. I'm assuming this is your first Forge World purchase. Congratulations, but I hate to break it to you- you are not a part of some elite club.

I'm not? Ouch, my self-worth.

Luckily, I have an invulnerable save against facile assumptions.

Nobody has demonstrated anything, except for that one guy who showed that Zarakynel is a lot cheaper for Canadians now. They have provided some numbers, wholly devoid of any context or meaning.

Adeptus Doritos wrote:

This is why I'm in favor of another blanket ban on Forge World. And I say this as someone who owns a LOT of Forge World stuff.

Don't be a jerk if you want to play a social game with other people. Super simple.

Now, how about you try to order something different- try and compare ordering a Fellblade and a Sicaran before and after the price change.

Why? I don't want either, so why do I care?

Probably best that you take your ball home because a company allegedly did something you don't like. Don't forget to push out your lower lip and make further baseless assumptions about people who don't agree with you. Oh, I see you're ahead of me on that one.

Jog on.

**Adeptus Doritos**

Excommunicatus wrote:
Luckily, I have an invulnerable save against facile assumptions.

Sticking your head up your own backside and bellowing the Golden Girls theme isn't a valid response, and hasn't been since third Edition.

Excommunicatus wrote:
Nobody has demonstrated anything, except for that one guy who showed that Zarakynel is a lot cheaper for Canadians now. They have provided some numbers, wholly devoid of any context or meaning.

Repeatedly the price hike has been shown, not just here but elsewhere. If you've missed that, I'm not sure how your personal math can be considered reliable.

Excommunicatus wrote:
Why? I don't want either, so why do I care?

Because in a few years, when FW isn't a thing, and you can't get your toys- you'll be the first one crying about it. What- you didn't think this price hike was going to work in their favor AND yours, did you? Oh, you poor sweet summer child- one toy purchase works in your favor and you're bending the knee to a company that doesn't care who you are. I almost feel sad for you. Almost.

Excommunicatus wrote:
Probably best that you take your ball home because a company allegedly did something you don't like. Don't forget to push out your lower lip and make further baseless assumptions about people who don't agree with you. Oh, I see you're ahead of me on that one.

Raising prices by 25% is a valid complaint, a bit more than 'something you didn't like'. Then again, it may be difficult if you've never had much experience as an actual adult with real responsibilities beyond a tabletop game. See, many of us have things like bills, families, and even women that have allowed us to touch them in intimate ways- so we can't all be like you. So, while you could very well be the type that's willing to beg friends for a meal, or call your parents with some fabrication about your Debit card being broken, or sell off some trinket that once meant something to you just to get a shiny Forge World toy you've always wanted- most of us, in fact, aren't that sort of person.

Take that for what it's worth.

Excommunicatus wrote:
Jog on.

Oh, son- I will. You just do your best to move off the sidewalk the next time I do.

**Excommunicatus**

Of course, I'll be glad to scoot out of the way of big, bad you and your massive, ad hominen, heteronormative assumptions.

I've made two purchases from FW in 22 years of 40k fandom, so when you make up your mind about whether Zarakynel was my first purchase (and entry to "the Hobby 1%", natch) or whether I'm a regular FW-shopper who'll "cry" when they go out of business do let me know.

Presumably you'll continue to flip-flop on the issue depending on which one you think supports whatever naked assertion you're currently making.

You're right though; you can't all be like me.

**Adeptus Doritos**

Excommunicatus wrote:
Of course, I'll be glad to scoot out of the way of big, bad you and your massive, ad hominen, heteronormative assumptions.

"Heteronormative"- ah,right. No argument, go ahead and feign outrage over it instead of actually engaging the argument and seeing things from another perspective other than "I got my toy, f**k everyone else!"

(Psst- it's "Ad-Hominem".)

Excommunicatus wrote:
I've made two purchases from FW in 22 years of 40k fandom...

Ah, see- this is your second purchase in 22 years. You lucked out, and got one model for a better price. You don't seem to have much experience and perspective on the problem.

Enjoy your new toy, and when you're ready to understand things beyond your own personal satisfaction- you'll understand the legitimacy of these complaints. And could even find someone else to play with.

**Excommunicatus**

There is no other perspective. I don't care about you or anyone else here.

GW sells products and I buy the ones I like and can afford. What you like and what you can afford is irrelevant, at best, so wading through threads packed with entitled whingers that seem to think that companies exist to cater to their whims at their pricepoints gets old fast.

I can't afford a Ferrari, so I don't buy Ferraris. I don't go online and whinge and whine about how Ferrari somehow owe me an affordable car, just 'cause I like 'em, and then tell everyone that doesn't agree that they're an insolvent, immature manchild with no appeal to the opposite sex which, by the way, yes, absolutely is heteronormative.

YMMV.

Ad hominen absolutely is not hyphenated, even in the short-form. It doesn't have shonky capitalization either. Where did you school?

**Adeptus Doritos**

Excommunicatus wrote:
There is no other perspective. I don't care about you or anyone else here.

While I can understand how satisfying that sounds when you read it out loud after you post it, you must understand that this hobby as a whole is bigger than you and what you want. See, in the world of business- when things aren't affordable- well, let's just say it becomes a bit harder to find someone to play with. Ever been to the FLGS and seen all those people playing Horus Heresy? No, because the price point for that wasn't very feasible and it was practically dead on arrival outside of the UK.

Excommunicatus wrote:
GW sells products and I buy the ones I like and can afford. What you like and what you can afford is irrelevant, at best, so wading through threads packed with entitled whingers that seem to think that companies exist to cater to their whims at their pricepoints gets old fast.

If you believe that a valid customer complaint about 20%-40% price increases on a product is 'entitlement', then you're lacking some significant degree of perspective and understanding. You don't get to pull the edgy 'I don't care about anyone else here, loser nerds!' angle, because this is a very valid reason for individuals to levy a complaint against a business. If you don't understand this, I don't know what to tell you- because it's valid. You'd know if you'd bought more than two items in the last two decades, and were a regular customer.

Excommunicatus wrote:
I can't afford a Ferrari, so I don't buy Ferraris. I don't go online and whinge and whine about how Ferrari somehow owe me an affordable car, just 'cause I like 'em, and then tell everyone that doesn't agree that they're an insolvent, immature manchild with no appeal to the opposite sex which, by the way, yes, absolutely is heteronormative.

I can't afford Ferraris, but I can afford steaks. And I regularly buy those steaks. If my steaks go up 25% in a day, I'm going to complain about it. Because only an insolvent, immature manchild with no appeal to any other human being would wave the one steak he's bought in the last decade over his head and call everyone a whiner and insult them because he's willing to pay this price.

It's your second steak. Don't act like you're a better person because you can afford it. When you buy those steaks in bulk, or at least once every 2 months- then you might understand why people are unsatisfied. But then again, that would require you to think outside of what you want.

Is it difficult for you to find games with people, or at least play with a person more than once? Your toxic attitude tells me it must be.

Keep screaming 'heteronormative' like it's a dog-whistle to win you support. I'm fairly certain you won't find much here.

Excommunicatus wrote:
Ad hominen absolutely is not hyphenated, even in the short-form. It doesn't have shonky capitalization either. Where did you school?

Somewhere they taught spelling. Check again.

**Asherian Command**

Someone needs to do a calculation of the average cost of a plane ticket to Britian from the United States (Say chicago or New York) and then calculate how much it would cost to buy a warlord titan in the UK compared to the US

**Excommunicatus**

Oh mate, your insecurities are showing. I don't believe I'm a better person because I bought an expensive mini. The idea is utterly ridiculous, but telling.

If basic necessities randomly increased in price then yeah, I'd complain too. Complaining that your utterly superfluous pile of resin is more expensive than it used to be, which still has not been demonstrated is, in fact, entitlement. What else do you call it? You want a private company to make the models you want at a price you're willing to pay. Doesn't work like that.

The reason I said that you shouldn't buy FW if you can't afford FW was not preening, it was making the point that FW produces a completely unnecessary leisure product. You are complaining that you want a Ferrari but can't afford it so Ferrari should lower their prices. But no, that's not entitlement.

Your incessant barrage of insults and assumptions has definitely swayed my opinion. Good job.

I don't buy steaks, FWIW. Don't like them. Give me a sec to link up the thread where I rant and rave incessantly about my personal preferences re steak and why Big Beef owes me a better-tasting slab of rotting flesh at a lower price.

I would suggest you don't make heteronormative comments in the future if you don't like people pointing them out. I don't care if anyone here supports my argument; I don't care about any of you remember? I posted it maybe fifteen minutes ago. Do keep up.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Asherian Command wrote:
Someone needs to do a calculation of the average cost of a plane ticket to Britian from the United States (Say chicago or New York) and then calculate how much it would cost to buy a warlord titan in the UK compared to the US

I mean, who cares?

I live relatively close to Toronto, but if I want to go see the Leafs play from the lower-bowl it's cheaper for me to go to Buffalo and fly to Arizona or Florida and watch them there than it is to go to Toronto. So what? Does that mean that tickets should be mandated to be sold at or below a certain price level? Or does it mean that nothing has any inherent value except for that placed on it by whoever wishes to acquire it? Or does it simply mean that hockey tickets are a completely unnecessary part of life and if I can't afford them, tough [Expletive Deleted]?

It's pretty funny how quickly the capitalist gloss comes off when people can't afford something they feel entitled to.

**Adeptus Doritos**

Asherian Command wrote:
Someone needs to do a calculation of the average cost of a plane ticket to Britian from the United States (Say chicago or New York) and then calculate how much it would cost to buy a warlord titan in the UK compared to the US

Flying to the UK and buying a Titan and bringing it back would cost you about $4100.00, and that's a really loose estimation. That's also assuming you weren't trying to do something crazy like buy a plane ticket a week in advance or something.

I'm less concerned about the things like Titans- no one here really uses them. What I've taken issue with is that I rarely ever buy a single thing from Forge World. Usually, I buy several items and I've saved money for a month or so and set it aside for this. This 'price hike' might work in the favor of the individuals that buy a tank here, an upgrade kit there, etc- but for someone who sits and plans an army over time and gets several components- it's a stab.

So, let's just say you're really working on building a Legion or you want a lot of relics in your Chapter, or maybe you like Red Scorpions... the buying multiple things is where you're gonna get smashed.

**Asherian Command**

Adeptus Doritos wrote:
Asherian Command wrote:
Someone needs to do a calculation of the average cost of a plane ticket to Britian from the United States (Say chicago or New York) and then calculate how much it would cost to buy a warlord titan in the UK compared to the US

Flying to the UK and buying a Titan and bringing it back would cost you about $4100.00, and that's a really loose estimation. That's also assuming you weren't trying to do something crazy like buy a plane ticket a week in advance or something.

I'm less concerned about the things like Titans- no one here really uses them. What I've taken issue with is that I rarely ever buy a single thing from Forge World. Usually, I buy several items and I've saved money for a month or so and set it aside for this. This 'price hike' might work in the favor of the individuals that buy a tank here, an upgrade kit there, etc- but for someone who sits and plans an army over time and gets several components- it's a stab.

So, let's just say you're really working on building a Legion or you want a lot of relics in your Chapter, or maybe you like Red Scorpions... the buying multiple things is where you're gonna get smashed.

Oh I know, I was planning on doing a massive purchase of the legion upgrades of white scars (But those aren't there anymore....)

So I can't purchase them because they aren't there and they are probably going to be expensive to purchase for no reason other than a stupid price hike.

I cannot afford to pay 20% extra... Its not really consumer friendly at all to do so. And the only reasons they are doing it is because A) Good Ole Greed, B) Brexit, C) The Value of the British Pound Going down and they want more money for it as a result.

**Excommunicatus**

Company in Wants to Make Money Shocker

**Adeptus Doritos**

Excommunicatus wrote:
Complaining that your utterly superfluous pile of resin is more expensive than it used to be, which still has not been demonstrated is, in fact, entitlement. What else do you call it? You want a private company to make the models you want at a price you're willing to pay. Doesn't work like that.

Uh, no. That's not entitlement. That's complaining about a price point. This is a very normal form of customer feedback. Successful businesses and individuals rely on feedback, even in the form of complaints.

The reason I said that you shouldn't buy FW if you can't afford FW was not preening, it was making the point that FW produces a completely unnecessary leisure product. You are complaining that you want a Ferrari but can't afford it so Ferrari should lower their prices. But no, that's not entitlement.

Excommunicatus wrote:
Your incessant barrage of insults and assumptions has definitely swayed my opinion. Good job.

Oh, no- I made generalized statements and you elected to make them about you, as a person. I don't know what kind of life you live an don't care, but if you've found a shoe that fits- please lace it up nice and tight and march on.

Excommunicatus wrote:
I would suggest you don't make heteronormative comments in the future if you don't like people pointing them out. I don't care if anyone here supports my argument; I don't care about any of you remember? I posted it maybe fifteen minutes ago. Do keep up.

I'm not understanding where you think I take issue with the word 'heteronormative'. It sounds like you're crying for attention and help when you've shot yourself in the foot with this argument.

Excommunicatus wrote:
It's pretty funny how quickly the capitalist gloss comes off when people can't afford something they feel entitled to.

"Entitlement"- I don't think you understand what this word means at all. Customer feedback and complaints aren't 'entitlement', and if you believe so- I hope no one places you in charge of any decisions, unless they're deliberately trying to drive the value of their stock into the ground.

Pretty funny how someone gets a shiny new toy from a company for the second time in his life, and he seems to think it makes him their PR champion.

**Asherian Command**

Excommunicatus wrote:
Company in Wants to Make Money Shocker

Not saying its bad, but its anti-consumer to do this with no other explanation. Honestly I will not purchase another Forge World Product because of this.

**Adeptus Doritos**

Asherian Command wrote:
Not saying its bad, but its anti-consumer to do this with no other explanation. Honestly I will not purchase another Forge World Product because of this.

He doesn't really understand how this works, Ash. Wanting to make money is fine, but if you jack the prices up out of the blue- you can't be surprised when people take their money to more affordable options. If they wanna get back in the game, and not have recasters taking their business- then they may want to re-evaluate their business model or at least open the communication about the price increases.

I'm not even the sort to complain about GW prices being as high as they are, but even I know that an average 25% price increase isn't going to pay off. It's not only that, but their refusal to engage even the most civil of feedback on Social Media is poor sport (they've been deleting the most politely worded comments that point out the price changes).

Originally I believed recasting was scummy, unless it was an out-of-production model- because I believed the prices were steep, but not completely unreasonable. The way to beat the shipping costs and such was to get more than one person in on an order and make one large purchase together... and I can't help but feel like they've caught on to that and stomped it.

Which, of course, is going to bite them. And it seems to have done exactly that.

**Excommunicatus**

I'm neither for nor against FW. I'm pointing out that they are a company whose sole purpose is to make money by selling a superfluous product.

I think you take issue with me flagging your statement as heteronormative because you've now gone out of your way to mention it three times. I think your various "general statements" contained in direct response to me and riffing on things I have posted are not in fact general statements... mostly because they riff on things I have said and are posted in direct response to me.

Oh, you also explicitly referred to me when you were bragging (apropos of nothing) about how women let you touch them which, again, is telling.

Then again, it may be difficult if you've never had much experience as an actual adult with real responsibilities beyond a tabletop game. See, many of us have things like bills, families, and even women that have allowed us to touch them in intimate ways- so we can't all be like you. So, while you could very well be the type that's willing to beg friends for a meal, or call your parents with some fabrication about your Debit card being broken, or sell off some trinket that once meant something to you just to get a shiny Forge World toy you've always wanted- most of us, in fact, aren't that sort of person.

Above, a "generalized statement".

Logic's pretty easy when you walk through it like that.

**BobtheInquisitor**

Elbows wrote:
I'm not entirely sure how much the recast market impacts Forgeworld personally. As someone told me when I was worried about game products I sell digitally being pirated...he said "Look, if they're going to pirate them, they were never going to buy them anyway".

I look at it the same way with Forgeworld and recasters. In many instances (the local community here has a lot of recasts I've seen) the people buying cheap copies of stuff were never going to buy the original ones from Forgeworld anyway. It's not a begrudging "Well, can't buy it for $40, I guess I'll pay $130..." etc.

Now...is that $40 perhaps something they'd spend on GW plastic instead? Maybe. I'm not advocating it, but I do think recasts don't impact Forgeworld as much as their own prices impact Forgeworld. I'd imagine if the Forgeworld prices were 'sane' (to put it nicely) you'd see a lot more legitimate stuff - assuming they stepped up their quality a bit.

Personally I'll keep buying 3rd party stuff instead, like Kromlech etc. Gives me a similar look for half the price...works for me. I don't tournament, etc. so I don't need official turrets or bits on my stuff.

While I'm not aware of any hard numbers, I have anecdotally seen the same logic lead to more money for GW.

"I was never going to buy that" tends to apply to big centerpiece models. The kind people build armies around. More than one person I know has gone from buying no GW product to buying several boxes of GW product to build an army in support of the counterfeit centerpiece mini they bought (or traded for). GW did not lose a sale of any FW items because no one was planning to buy them at FW prices, but GW did gain sales of plastic minis that complimented a recast mini.

**Blastaar**

A rip-offf is a rip-off, regardless of whether or not the item in question is a necessity. People have every right to complain when a company is blatantly taking advantage of them. Especially when they lie that they are changing the way they handle shipping to benefit you, the customer, but in reality jack up prices on you instead.

**Adeptus Doritos**

Excommunicatus wrote:
I'm neither for nor against FW. I'm pointing out that they are a company whose sole purpose is to make money by selling a superfluous product.

And you're labeling the criticism of a price change as 'entitlement', which is what one would expect from a caricature of a robber-baron and not a rational, mature, thinking adult.

Yes, this is directed at you personally. Whether you choose to accept this or tell me I'm mistaken in understanding you is entirely up to you.

EDIT: You know, I'm not sinking to this level any more. Screw it.

If you'd like to focus on the price increase topic, that'd probably be better.

**IronBrand**

Adeptus Doritos wrote:
He doesn't really understand how this works, Ash. Wanting to make money is fine, but if you jack the prices up out of the blue- you can't be surprised when people take their money to more affordable options. If they wanna get back in the game, and not have recasters taking their business- then they may want to re-evaluate their business model or at least open the communication about the price increases.

I'm not even the sort to complain about GW prices being as high as they are, but even I know that an average 25% price increase isn't going to pay off. It's not only that, but their refusal to engage even the most civil of feedback on Social Media is poor sport (they've been deleting the most politely worded comments that point out the price changes).

Originally I believed recasting was scummy, unless it was an out-of-production model- because I believed the prices were steep, but not completely unreasonable. The way to beat the shipping costs and such was to get more than one person in on an order and make one large purchase together... and I can't help but feel like they've caught on to that and stomped it.

Which, of course, is going to bite them. And it seems to have done exactly that.

They're not saying anything because it's the smart thing for them not to. Take a look at the video game industry. Companies do anti-consumer things there all the time. When the company keeps quiet people get apathetic. If the company says something it keeps the dialog open and it doesn't go away. If GW and FW stay silent about this it'll quiet down over time and anyone who brings it up will just get attacked by the apathetic masses.

**Adeptus Doritos**

IronBrand wrote:
They're not saying anything because it's the smart thing for them not to. Take a look at the video game industry. Companies do anti-consumer things there all the time. When the company keeps quiet people get apathetic. If the company says something it keeps the dialog open and it doesn't go away. If GW and FW stay silent about this it'll quiet down over time and anyone who brings it up will just get attacked by the apathetic masses.

Fair enough, tried and true. But wasn't there some impact from the Lockbox fiasco a while back?