For Russ and the Allfather! Space Wolves Tactica: (Codex Edition)

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**Weazel**

Northern85Star wrote:
Weazel wrote:
So I had a game against Necrons yesterday. It was a complete disaster. I was arrogant and thought TWC and JP characters could easily challenge a few mindless automatons but boy was I wrong. I got his scytheguard down to last man in melee, and he got seven of them back with RP. Should have used the stratagem to fight another time with TWC but I forgot about it.

His 6 Wraiths had eaten my Wolf Lord and a group of TWC, but was down to two wraiths. He used RP and got 4 of them back and they were back to full strength. That's when I conceded on turn 3. No point playing the final rounds because the outcome was obvious. He had a solid footing on 4 objectives and the Wraiths were just going to eat my Long Fangs and whatever little I had left.

Idk, next time I'm going to try a Dreadstar with Björn and Wulfen Dreads and have a better balanced list.

So what did I learn. TWC are going back to storage, not worth it really. Wulfen are super awesome on paper but they need a taxi which makes them just way too expensive. 9" charge from Hunt is just too damn unreliable.

I also feel the shroud stratagem is way too expensive. 3CP for a -1 hit bubble when some armies get army wide -1 hit for free. Just baffles my mind really. At 2cp it might be worth it but 3 is too much.

So what has worked for you and what has not?

TWC needs support, but there is lots to get. They can get up to +3 A each now, with wulfen (stone), saga of the wolfkin and Arjac

Chainswords just don't cut it and they get expensive fast once you start slapping on powerweapons.. and Arjac is slow AF, don't really see him keeping up. But might consider them with those +2A and trying to remember the stratagem to let them fight twice if I really need something gone...

**Northern85Star**

Arjac is a beast, cant wait to try him with 6” heroic intervention. But yes, he has to go right into the fray - i deepstrike him in near wulfen, hoping to get that 9.. if not, he just shoots and boosts the TWC, aswell as giving both wulfen and TWC re-roll 1s to wound.

**Weazel**

Taking TWC + Arjac + Wulfen + Wolf Lord is a rather hefty investment comparing to taking just the TWC. I find that I don't usually want to invest more than 500pts into pure CC elements. Shooting feels just so much more effective (and more boring, I know).

Last night I put 900 points into CC and they didn't really accomplish anything. Pretty sure the Wraiths and Lychguard didn't cost nearly as much and they kicked my ass.

**Northern85Star**

CC is where all our strenght comes from! At range we are still index, apart from long fang stratagems.

**Ragnar69**

A Wolf Lord with TH, Saga of the Wolfkin and Wulfen Stone has 6 attacks, hitting on 2+, re-rolling 1s, so basically 6 hits.

Let's assume he charged a knight and uses the strategem Seeking A Saga. So he wounds on 4 re-rolling everything, so 4.5 wounds = 13.5 damage. No matter if the knight kills him or not, we have a strategem to fight again for the same damage. So if we roll average and the oppenent slightly below avarge for his 6+ save, the Wolf Lord can kill a knight in a single round for around 130 points and 3 or 4 CPs. Try to do that with shooting.

**KillswitchUK**

Ding ding ding we have a winner

**Weazel**

That's cute, but there's still the matter of reaching the knight and actually charging him.

**Overdose**

Hi everyone.
Recently decided my new purchases of Primaris marines will be Space Wolves.

I do want to make the most use of the models which I have been able to acquire (Dark Imperium).

How do Intercessors do as troop choices?

And for Reivers- if you HAD to use them, would you give them the combat knife or bolt carbines.

And any other advice for doing a Primaris-focused Space Wolves army would be great!

**jcd386**

I think primaris gain very little from being space wolves. I could see reivers possibly being a decent drop in assault unit if you have Wulfen around, but that's about it.

Deathwatch and dark angels do primaris much better.

If you plan to do it anyway, I'd take min squads of intercessors and outflank hellblasters or aggressors.

But the real power of SW comes from free extra attacks, so you really want hammers or cheap bodies, and primaris don't do either of those well.

**Slayer-Fan123**

Weazel wrote:
So I had a game against Necrons yesterday. It was a complete disaster. I was arrogant and thought TWC and JP characters could easily challenge a few mindless automatons but boy was I wrong. I got his scytheguard down to last man in melee, and he got seven of them back with RP. Should have used the stratagem to fight another time with TWC but I forgot about it.

His 6 Wraiths had eaten my Wolf Lord and a group of TWC, but was down to two wraiths. He used RP and got 4 of them back and they were back to full strength. That's when I conceded on turn 3. No point playing the final rounds because the outcome was obvious. He had a solid footing on 4 objectives and the Wraiths were just going to eat my Long Fangs and whatever little I had left.

Idk, next time I'm going to try a Dreadstar with Björn and Wulfen Dreads and have a better balanced list.

So what did I learn. TWC are going back to storage, not worth it really. Wulfen are super awesome on paper but they need a taxi which makes them just way too expensive. 9" charge from Hunt is just too damn unreliable.

I also feel the shroud stratagem is way too expensive. 3CP for a -1 hit bubble when some armies get army wide -1 hit for free. Just baffles my mind really. At 2cp it might be worth it but 3 is too much.

So what has worked for you and what has not?

Honestly, don't let a single bad experience with Lychguard ruin the unit for you. Sure you forgot the Strategem, but if you HAD remembered it, the unit wouldn't have been an issue at all. Also, getting 7 back is VERY out of the norm. On average they would ordinarily get 3 back out of the 9.

**Weazel**

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Weazel wrote:
So I had a game against Necrons yesterday. It was a complete disaster. I was arrogant and thought TWC and JP characters could easily challenge a few mindless automatons but boy was I wrong. I got his scytheguard down to last man in melee, and he got seven of them back with RP. Should have used the stratagem to fight another time with TWC but I forgot about it.

His 6 Wraiths had eaten my Wolf Lord and a group of TWC, but was down to two wraiths. He used RP and got 4 of them back and they were back to full strength. That's when I conceded on turn 3. No point playing the final rounds because the outcome was obvious. He had a solid footing on 4 objectives and the Wraiths were just going to eat my Long Fangs and whatever little I had left.

Idk, next time I'm going to try a Dreadstar with Björn and Wulfen Dreads and have a better balanced list.

So what did I learn. TWC are going back to storage, not worth it really. Wulfen are super awesome on paper but they need a taxi which makes them just way too expensive. 9" charge from Hunt is just too damn unreliable.

I also feel the shroud stratagem is way too expensive. 3CP for a -1 hit bubble when some armies get army wide -1 hit for free. Just baffles my mind really. At 2cp it might be worth it but 3 is too much.

So what has worked for you and what has not?

Honestly, don't let a single bad experience with Lychguard ruin the unit for you. Sure you forgot the Strategem, but if you HAD remembered it, the unit wouldn't have been an issue at all. Also, getting 7 back is VERY out of the norm. On average they would ordinarily get 3 back out of the 9.

Well yeah it was an epic roll, but there was a cryptek. He didn't even use the Orb to get them back. Needless to say I was a bit appalled.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Speaking of TWC, if you were to run them, how many per unit and what gear?

**Azuza001**

I run my twc as max size squads, leader with wolf claws, rest with chain swords and storm shields. I use them as chaff clearing and fighting things that dont like close combat so my wulfen can make their assault against enemy vehicles or tougher targets.

**jcd386**

I've been thinking squads of 3 with 1 hammer. Shields on at least 2 of them, probably all three.

I think more hammers are doable but I don't love spending 16 on a hammer for a model with less than 3 attacks base. I think if you want lots of hammers Wulfen do it better, but one is good so they can still threaten big stuff.

Two of these squads gives more hammer attacks and forces people to split the fire of big stuff like Castellans, or debuffs like doom, so I like it more than 1 big squad.

Deepstrike Arjac in the turn they charge something, and have the Wulfen Stone nearby, and they aren't too bad of a unit with 5 hammer attacks, 9 wolf attacks, and 10 chainsword attacks.

**CatGotYourLas**

For my TWC related units: All hammers and shields. I want them to hit hard to die trying. Local meta is rather friendly and not too super competitive so I think they'll be seeing success. Only people I've seen go all out are the Eldar players :B

**Northern85Star**

TWC: leader with hammer and shield. We want a unit that poses some threat to big targets too, and it is worth it on a model with 3 attacks. Without him, they will get tied up by big, tough models. Two with chainsword and shield - these are the first to fall, and still good at clearing chaff. Rest with dual claws, perfect for smaller targets, but they will die fast without a shieldbrother.

So every model has 3 attacks.

**jcd386**

Northern85Star wrote:
TWC: leader with hammer and shield. We want a unit that poses some threat to big targets too, and it is worth it on a model with 3 attacks. Without him, they will get tied up by big, tough models. Two with chainsword and shield - these are the first to fall, and still good at clearing chaff. Rest with dual claws, perfect for smaller targets, but they will die fast without a shieldbrother.

So every model has 3 attacks.

Yeah that makes sense, but I'm still not really sold on squads larger than 3, and by the time you get to 6 you seem better off with 2x3. There aren't really any buffs or strategems worth putting on a big squad anyway, and doom, death hex etc are all more effective on single large units.

**Azuza001**

I feel the wolves are anti infantry, so loading the guys out as anti tank is making a unit where half the attacks are not going agsinst the intended target. Thats why I go chainswords and shields, keep them cheap and let then chow into something, even terminators and genestealers have issues with that many attacks at a 3++ 3w model setup.

**Slayer-Fan123**

Weazel wrote:
Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Weazel wrote:
So I had a game against Necrons yesterday. It was a complete disaster. I was arrogant and thought TWC and JP characters could easily challenge a few mindless automatons but boy was I wrong. I got his scytheguard down to last man in melee, and he got seven of them back with RP. Should have used the stratagem to fight another time with TWC but I forgot about it.

His 6 Wraiths had eaten my Wolf Lord and a group of TWC, but was down to two wraiths. He used RP and got 4 of them back and they were back to full strength. That's when I conceded on turn 3. No point playing the final rounds because the outcome was obvious. He had a solid footing on 4 objectives and the Wraiths were just going to eat my Long Fangs and whatever little I had left.

Idk, next time I'm going to try a Dreadstar with Björn and Wulfen Dreads and have a better balanced list.

So what did I learn. TWC are going back to storage, not worth it really. Wulfen are super awesome on paper but they need a taxi which makes them just way too expensive. 9" charge from Hunt is just too damn unreliable.

I also feel the shroud stratagem is way too expensive. 3CP for a -1 hit bubble when some armies get army wide -1 hit for free. Just baffles my mind really. At 2cp it might be worth it but 3 is too much.

So what has worked for you and what has not?

Honestly, don't let a single bad experience with Lychguard ruin the unit for you. Sure you forgot the Strategem, but if you HAD remembered it, the unit wouldn't have been an issue at all. Also, getting 7 back is VERY out of the norm. On average they would ordinarily get 3 back out of the 9.

Well yeah it was an epic roll, but there was a cryptek. He didn't even use the Orb to get them back. Needless to say I was a bit appalled.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Speaking of TWC, if you were to run them, how many per unit and what gear?

Even with a Cryptek, that's only 4.5 back. He rolled much above average still. I wouldn't fret and just remember you have that Strategem next time.

**Northern85Star**

Azuza001 wrote:
I feel the wolves are anti infantry, so loading the guys out as anti tank is making a unit where half the attacks are not going agsinst the intended target. Thats why I go chainswords and shields, keep them cheap and let then chow into something, even terminators and genestealers have issues with that many attacks at a 3++ 3w model setup.

They are best at infantry, but it is not a good idea to make them a one trick pony. Some lists dont have any infantry, and then they are just good but expensive roadbumps - that is my experience. I started out with your setup, but changed once i had a game where they were useless due to no high S, multi dmg weapons.

**Karhedron**

Ragnar69 wrote:
A Wolf Lord with TH, Saga of the Wolfkin and Wulfen Stone has 6 attacks, hitting on 2+, re-rolling 1s, so basically 6 hits.

Let's assume he charged a knight and uses the strategem Seeking A Saga. So he wounds on 4 re-rolling everything, so 4.5 wounds = 13.5 damage. No matter if the knight kills him or not, we have a strategem to fight again for the same damage. So if we roll average and the oppenent slightly below avarge for his 6+ save, the Wolf Lord can kill a knight in a single round for around 130 points and 3 or 4 CPs. Try to do that with shooting.

Weazel wrote:
That's cute, but there's still the matter of reaching the knight and actually charging him.

A Jump Pack solves the problem of reaching the Knight easily enough. Charging is more risky, I agree since we do not have anything like Blood Angels to negate overwatch. Best case, have some buddies (preferably with SSs) charge alongside and eat that overwatch for him. Worst case,take it on the chin and trust your Storm Shield to take the worst of it.

If you need something to stop an enemy Gallant rampaging through your lines, then overwatch is not really a problem and this guy really is your man. Like Captain Smash, he is a solid HQ choice who can be pumped up with CPs if necessary to take down far bigger threats than his points would indicate. If you opponent has not brought sufficiently big game to be worth the CP expenditure, just run him as a normal smashy Wolf Lord.

**arhurt**

Played 3 games this weekend: https://wargamingrebel.blogspot.com/2018/09/batrep-warhammer-40k-space-wolves-new.html

Game 1 vs Custodes + Knight Armiger
Game 2 vs Nemesis Dreadknights + IG
Game 3 vs Ultra infantry line

Details on the link above, but in short, love my Bloodclaws, they pack quite a punch. 6'' heroic intervention is also great when the enemy is trying to keep away from you!

**Azuza001**

Yeah, I have found my blood claws with a power fist to be quite useful. I am enjoying our troop choices now. Amazing what +1 to hit can do when charging or charged.

**Slayer-Fan123**

Do you guys think Lukas is okay or do you find him kinda not needed? I want to like his profile and his buff but I'm not feeling it.

**ZergSmasher**

I'm wondering if a worthwhile strategy might be to use the outflank strat to bring in a unit of Aggressors, which can hopefully shoot and kill some chaff unit, and then charge a tank or other vehicle, with the +1 to hit after charging negating the -1 from the fists. Probably not as good as Wulfen, but could be alright maybe?

**Azuza001**

Lukas in the index was almost a needed unit if you were taking lots of blood claws (which I did quite often). With the change to his stats he isn't needed anymore. If your going to run a lot of blood claws he can still be useful, but not a requirement.

As for the aggressors, using the on-the-hunt stratagem to let them come off of one of the sides of the map is very useful. I find that this is one of the things that Space Wolves can do for primaris that other factions can't, get hard to position units into position to be a right pain in the bum.

Think about it, 3 Aggressors don't take up that much room. All you need to do is get a small opening in the back side of an opponents lines and they can come in forcing your opponent to turn some of their forces back around and deal with them. If they don't they are going to seriously regret things.

**Dakka Wolf**

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Do you guys think Lukas is okay or do you find him kinda not needed? I want to like his profile and his buff but I'm not feeling it.

He’s expensive and he needs to be built around.
Too many things ignore Leadership, the pelt of the Doppelgängeral is very ‘meh’ and his last laugh gets worse every new edition.
If he moved quickly I’d take him but as he stands he’s a foot slogging meh.

**Northern85Star**

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Do you guys think Lukas is okay or do you find him kinda not needed? I want to like his profile and his buff but I'm not feeling it.

He is too expensive for what he does now. Better off taking a WGBL. I have Lukas, unassembled, but sadly he is going to collect dust.

**Dakka Wolf**

Why did they ruin Blizzard Shields?

**Ordana**

Dakka Wolf wrote:
Why did they ruin Blizzard Shields?

Because GW felt a bunch of Dreadnoughts with 3++ was to good.
At at the more casual level they might well b right.

**Neophyte2012**

Dakka Wolf wrote:
Why did they ruin Blizzard Shields?

At least it is cheapee now, dropped back to its index price from the CA price. Though it sucks to only have a 4++.