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 BaronIveagh wrote:
Just remember, each squad of space marines only costs them $5 to $10 to make, total.

Yep, I'm not really seeing where you're going with this? GW has managed to make things even wider disparities between manufacturing and sales compared to normal unit cost? It looks like the drones are small sprues, and while I hope they're paying their artists okay wages for their labor (despite it being in my experience pretty generic SF of no special quality) the rules are really unimpressive for BSF. I would have loved a cheapish 40k dungeon crawl but they're charging designer prices for this.

 Viterbi wrote:

 BrookM wrote:
I hope Escalation sticks around for a while, really want the Rogue Trader and Psyker from that one, but can't quite cough up €85,- for two minis I really want.

Your other option would be the Combat Arena game. It has all the heroes from Escalation. That's how I got them and then bought the gaming material on ebay (friend has the cultists).

https://www.thalia.de/shop/home/suggestartikel/ID145746894.html?sq=Combat%20Arena&stype=productName

That whole box was $40 if I recall, and much more palatable with a coupon. And if you have someone in the states toss the cardboard and clip the sprue to fit in a bubble mailer, shipping shouldn’t be tooo bad.

If you can’t get it through the loot group, let me know.

 BaronIveagh wrote:
Just remember, each squad of space marines only costs them $5 to $10 to make, total.

This is such a nonsensical statement. Of the MSRP 40% goes to the retailer, ~20% goes to the wholesaler and 40% goes to the manufacturer. Each of those groups have costs associated with wages, real estate and equipment. Even if the plastic and paper parts were less than $5 in materials to manufacture someone had to design them, someone had to make them, they had to be stored somewhere and then delivered from where they were made to where they would stay until someone bought them.

Now of course as GW for many is the retailer they buy from they get the whole MSRP, but they also get all the costs from each step as well. Yes, the prices are insane, but it’s also possible from all this that BSF wasn’t profitable (enough) to continue. I mean the 3D terrain I print is cheap, but only if you look at the filament and ignore the cost of the printer, the failed prints, the electricity and my own time.

You do know that other companies sell boxes with more plastic minis for a lot cheaper, right? Companies that are not vertically integrated can afford to make plastics and sell them cheaper than GW. That’s why there is a golden age for big box boardgames right now. Your entire post is built on distortions to defend an insane practice.

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
You do know that other companies sell boxes with more plastic minis for a lot cheaper, right? Companies that are not vertically integrated can afford to make plastics and sell them cheaper than GW. That’s why there is a golden age for big box boardgames right now. Your entire post is built on distortions to defend an insane practice.

100% this. GW has absurdly strong infrastructure and volume compared to other miniatures companies. These prices have nothing to do with necessity and everything to do with getting the most from each unit that they can.

Mine came today


looking forward to getting the bigger drones built and play through the full campaign.

Hope the next WHQ is as fun as this one has been

 Viterbi wrote:

 BrookM wrote:
I hope Escalation sticks around for a while, really want the Rogue Trader and Psyker from that one, but can't quite cough up €85,- for two minis I really want.

Your other option would be the Combat Arena game. It has all the heroes from Escalation. That's how I got them and then bought the gaming material on ebay (friend has the cultists).

https://www.thalia.de/shop/home/suggestartikel/ID145746894.html?sq=Combat%20Arena&stype=productName

Gave it a look, but looks like they don't ship that stuff to the Netherlands, but thanks for the link.

 spiralingcadaver wrote:

 BaronIveagh wrote:
Just remember, each squad of space marines only costs them $5 to $10 to make, total.

Yep, I'm not really seeing where you're going with this?

Probably another preamble to rant about how recasting is good and all that stuff should be totes okay.

shadowsfm wrote:
All the figures together

The Ork is for one of the WD scenarios, right? What mini did you use, I don't know the Ork line. Are you going to add the Ogryn brothers from WD as well?

Yup. Ork and Ogryns are “hangers on”, rather than regular player characters.

The Ork you could let your converting chops run wild with. Just needs a suitably impressive bit of Dakka.

 BrookM wrote:
Probably another preamble to rant about how recasting is good and all that stuff should be totes okay.

Generally speakign it's not, and most recasters suck ass.

But GW is hosing it's customers and use the molecule thin excuse that it's products compete with each other for limited customers and anything they put out is meant to be a gateway to becoming a 40k player and NOTHING ELSE.

Recall Black Industries?

Everything they ever made sold out while still on preorder, but GW decided to shut that side line down.

 Prometheum5 wrote:

shadowsfm wrote:
All the figures together

The Ork is for one of the WD scenarios, right? What mini did you use, I don't know the Ork line. Are you going to add the Ogryn brothers from WD as well?

I wanted him to look exactly like his image in the annual, because he is a named character. I used this box set https://www.games-workshop.com/en-US/Flash-Gitz

I dont have too much interest in the orgryns, but im looking forward to the arco flagellant and im waiting for the Master of Possession and his possessed marines to be in a cheaper box

Statistx wrote:
I also hope they "release" their minis at some point. There are a lot of good ones in there, but as other said, not THAT good to dish out that much money cause of added stuff I wouldn't need.
Also in the WH40K universe: is there any other single or coop game? Cause far as I know this was supposed to be that, but reading other posts here, I shouldn't really consider saving up for it.

Assuming you don't include RPGs, I believe you've got:

Space Crusade I think was full co-op?

Assassinorum Execution Force or some dumb name like that was actually a pretty enjoyable short full-co-op (or single player) game, that existed mostly as a way of selling old chaos kits and the 4 new assassins. I got the non-miniature parts for like $10 and my group enjoys it every now and then as a decently strategic filler/short game, but its content sure isn't worth anywhere close to the $100-ish it was sold for.

BSF is not something I'd invest in. If my group didn't play RPGs in the 40k setting, I'd have probably dropped my copy. If the core were its current price and the expansions were around 1/2-2/3 the prices they are, it would be fine as a light-weight dungeon crawl, but the pricing is offensive for a game that doesn't have a lot of replay value. I expect that once my group is done we won't be re-playing it for long time. The mechanics aren't cool enough to play it for them alone (ie there's little depth or challenge), and the story isn't so exciting that I'm impatient to find out what happens next.

 spiralingcadaver wrote:

Assuming you don't include RPGs, I believe you've got:

Space Crusade I think was full co-op?

Assassinorum Execution Force or some dumb name like that was actually a pretty enjoyable short full-co-op (or single player) game, that existed mostly as a way of selling old chaos kits and the 4 new assassins. I got the non-miniature parts for like $10 and my group enjoys it every now and then as a decently strategic filler/short game, but its content sure isn't worth anywhere close to the $100-ish it was sold for.

Correct, I didn't include RPGs as those also need a DM and I'm thinking more of having something to enjoy alone or at max with 1 or 2 friends from time to time.
I don't have a warhammer group (or any regular group for similar stuff) and don't really have the time or social energy after work to find a 'stranger group', so was looking for something close to WH40K.

Pulled the trigger on Ascension.

Grabbed it from Element for a little over £50 after discounts.

Statistx wrote:
Correct, I didn't include RPGs as those also need a DM and I'm thinking more of having something to enjoy alone or at max with 1 or 2 friends from time to time.
I don't have a warhammer group (or any regular group for similar stuff) and don't really have the time or social energy after work to find a 'stranger group', so was looking for something close to WH40K.

Unfortunately, GW's shallow-and-broad approach to rules design doesn't really lend itself to a rich AI experience, which I think is needed for a co-op or single-player experience with a lot of longevity. There are a number of good fantasy or modern games that fit that, but no SF that I've played that do, and frankly I would be shocked at this point if anything GW proper put out had that had deep AI.

 spiralingcadaver wrote:

Unfortunately, GW's shallow-and-broad approach to rules design doesn't really lend itself to a rich AI experience, which I think is needed for a co-op or single-player experience with a lot of longevity. There are a number of good fantasy or modern games that fit that, but no SF that I've played that do, and frankly I would be shocked at this point if anything GW proper put out had that had deep AI.

Just a reminded that Citadel Miniatures bought Games Workshop, that’s all you should need to know about where their priorities lie.

But in case you’re still not sure GW apparently talked to Adam Poots of Kingdom Death fame to see if they could capture some of KDM’s lightning in a box. Seems they didn’t want to put in the effort on the game side. Plastic minis and lots of paper products: check. Worthwhile game play...

Aeon, not complaining there, just stating the condition. I think they make decent if poorly balanced light-weight games with engaging settings, but that doesn't suit AI-style designs well.

Also, interesting- I hadn't heard about their interest in KDM. Do you remember where that's from?

Well that would explain Teclis' new friend...

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Well that would explain Teclis' new friend...

And possibly the prices. “If some nobody like Kingdom Death can sell the core box for $300, wait til they see what we can get away with.”

That's the first I'd heard about GW and Poots in talk. Something like that seems like it would've already disseminated itself out into the fandom.

 Prometheum5 wrote:

shadowsfm wrote:
All the figures together

The Ork is for one of the WD scenarios, right? What mini did you use, I don't know the Ork line. Are you going to add the Ogryn brothers from WD as well?

You use that particular Ork Flash Git from the boxed set.

https://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Flash-Gitz

The Ogryn Brothers are from two Ogryn from the IG Ogryn boxed set. Ones armored, the others not. Built to taste.

https://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Militarum-Auxilla-Bullgryns

https://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Militarum-Auxilla-Ogryns

At least in KDM the survivor can equip differents armor, weapons and there're kit for that. Not a bunch of monobuild characters shoved into a tiny sprue to save cost.

In Silver Tower, GW still got some decency to make each characters on their own sprue, which result in some of the best character models that they've ever made. The smaller character like the priest get a gryph hound because there're still some space left on the sprue.

I wouldn't mind the high price if the effort remain the same or better. But nah, price go up, effort go down.

Why don't the moaners just go infest a topic about one of these cheap plastic miniatures games they keep talking about rather than trying to turn a blackstone topic into GW price bashing ?

Are people only allowed to post about a product as long as they are happy with it's company's practices, now?

That's rich.

 Albertorius wrote:
Are people only allowed to post about a product as long as they are happy with it's company's practices, now?

That's rich.

It's more that negativity attracts more negativity and, esp on Dakka, its very easy to end up with a whole thread moaning. So suddenly the "primary" thread for talking about a specific game/interest is complaining. For those who come to the site who have an overall positive connection to the game it can be tiring to see continual complaints.

It's not that people are not capable nor willing to be critical, but that they'd rather not every major game/faction thread wound up a long series of complaints.

I mean, I expect there won't be any more BSF news, so probably this is not the right place to discuss it anyways.

I suppose the BSF autopsy should be held here though since that discussion isn't worthy of a new thread. My view has already been expressed - looked very cool, too expensive though. If they make the minis available separately I'll be very pleased, depending on price. I don't see why they wouldn't but it's entirely possible.

Personally I think that the idea of the base game is very sound, while the implementation is kind of bland, TBH.

I never picked up any of the expansions, because I never though the contents warranted the price they were asking.

OTOH, I'll probably use the concept, tiles and everthing else to run an RPG campaign about the fortress and its explorers.

JWBS wrote:
I suppose the BSF autopsy should be held here though since that discussion isn't worthy of a new thread. My view has already been expressed - looked very cool, too expensive though. If they make the minis available separately I'll be very pleased, depending on price. I don't see why they wouldn't but it's entirely possible.

It would certainly be neat to see a rogue trader collection made from the combined sets of the three plastic rogue traders we have now

I thought the models were excellent - it was great that they explored the 40k universe bringing back traitor guard and the weirder elements of the Imperium. I was just a disappointed they didn't expand this out to the Xenos factions. Thats why I didn't buy in because both featured factions don't interest me, if there had been a significant Xenos expansion then maybe. I really hope they bring out those miniatures separately at some point - I'd like to be able to get them without the waste of unused gaming materials.
I really think 40 needs a smaller system or two like AoS has with Underworlds and Warcry, rather than stand alone box games like this. Spacehulk had extra rules to allow chaos marines, eldar, guard etc when it initially came out through WD articles-they should do something like that perhaps with "seasons" like the AOS games. Quest seems to be limited run games rather than an ongoing system at this stage, but at least they have used to bring new things out model wise [I can't comment on game play as I don't play presently so models interest me the most]. Hopefully they will create a system where we can see Eldar outcasts/corsairs, Tau explorer/scout teams etc..but I've said this before when discussing Killteam..