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Episode 15.

Where the blinking flip was this level of quality mid-season????

Absolutely superb stuff, and fantastic atmosphere throughout, particularly

For the first time, I can’t wait until next weeks episode.

OHH SWEET GOD THE CLIFF HANGER! DAMNIT WHY YOU DO THIS TO ME FILONI!

Well, I'm glad there were some convenient bots to blow up. Yay, team. Very dramatic post-preemptive betrayal murder brawl against incapable opponents. Woo. (Side congratulations to 'genius strategist' for... creating the minor inconvenience for her own side).

They need to work on the timing of parallel scenes. Crosshair and company go straight to Kamino and straight to the clone staging area or whatever, but somehow they're still walking down the corridor while the Batch goes to a different planet, repairs the ship, and then goes to Kamino.

Anyway, it didn't actually happen the way I expected it to. It was... way more boring than that. I guess they can squeeze in a real confrontation in the last episode, but I'm not sure they'll even bother.

Revised expectation: Crosshair goes walkabout to get his head together for season 2, various cameos show up to talk to them, say goodbye, and the scenes will somehow be scored to be sad and whatever (for some reason), and the Batch signs up with ??? to do Rebel things. Yay season 2, I guess.

BrianDavion wrote:
OHH SWEET GOD THE CLIFF HANGER! DAMNIT WHY YOU DO THIS TO ME FILONI!

??
The robot or someone will know a convenient escape vehicle/transport to their ship. The opening credits will take longer than the resolution of this 'cliff hanger.'

 insaniak wrote:

Although I did just start over again today, to introduce my daughters to the series, so I'll no doubt get to whatever I missed before too long.

As it turns out, I appear to have missed a chunk of CW series 1 the first time through as well... We're about halfway through S1, and the girls are loving it.

I was somewhat amused to note that all of the stuff that so many 'hardcore fans' complained about with this show, my 8 and 5 year old absolutely love. Padme and Ahsoka (and Grievous!) are their favourite characters. They think Ahsoka calling Anakin 'Skyguy' is hilarious (although agree with me that 'Artooey' is just a step too far ), the bumbling battle droids are great (youngest's favourite scene so far is from Ep1, where Yoda tricks the droids into shooting each other), they thought Stinky the Hutt was cute, and that Jar Jar is amusing.

They've also both asked for lightsabers for Christmas, and are spending a large amount of time pretending to be various characters, or just running around making 'pew pew' noises. It's a hell of a lot of fun getting to experience all of this again through their eyes.

People dont like ahsoka in the first season because she is annoying and a little grating....
Not realizing she is meant to be that and she grows.

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
People dont like ahsoka in the first season because she is annoying and a little grating....
Not realizing she is meant to be that and she grows.

I don't think it's a viewer's fault for not liking a character who is being portrayed as unlikeable. Moot as the point is as Clone Wars was a success and the 'tactic' if you can call it that, was used again with Erza. I guess the trick is having enough stuff in the show you keep the audience watching long enough to see the 'personal growth'.

It’s a key part of her journey, and tells us a lot about how poorly the war is going.

She’s very young (14, I think?) and brash - over confident in her powers. Yet they need Jedi on the ground, so off to war she goes.

Yet she matures quickly, as one might expect.

Granted that’s not immediately apparent, and one does need to watch the whole thing to appreciate it, but ultimately it works.

MarkNorfolk wrote:
I guess the trick is having enough stuff in the show you keep the audience watching long enough to see the 'personal growth'.

I suspect the trick is actually more 'Write for your actual audience.'

Ultimately, this was a show for kids. And kids seem to like Ahsoka just fine.

I never had an issue with Ashoka, hell the minute I realized how brash etc she was I was smirking, remember Anakin didn't CHOOSE her, Yoda ASSIGNED her. the old muppet did so for a reason. Assigning her to Anakin would force Anakin to grow because he'd have to "be the responsable one" Ashoka would also grow because rather then coasting on talent, she'd be forced to work as hard as she could just to keep up.

I do want to add I fully understand the criticism.

Finding a character deeply irritating, then being told sometime after “oh, yeah. They were meant to be” does sound like a cop out.

But given how far we see Ahsoka come in terms of maturity and personal responsibility I’m inclined to accept it in this instance.

I don't think its JUST Ahsoka. The entire Clone Wars series got off to a rocky start. It's very padded with a ton of cringey episodes until it finds what works and changes things up to find a good balance in tone.

 LunarSol wrote:
I don't think its JUST Ahsoka. The entire Clone Wars series got off to a rocky start. It's very padded with a ton of cringey episodes until it finds what works and changes things up to find a good balance in tone.

we've had several SW TV series by now, so it's easy to forget that when TCW came out they where BASICLY in uncharted territory.

BrianDavion wrote:

 LunarSol wrote:
I don't think its JUST Ahsoka. The entire Clone Wars series got off to a rocky start. It's very padded with a ton of cringey episodes until it finds what works and changes things up to find a good balance in tone.

we've had several SW TV series by now, so it's easy to forget that when TCW came out they where BASICLY in uncharted territory.

I think both of these are true.

The first season of CW especially is very clunky. Subsequent seasons gradually improved on things until the show kind of hit a stride in season 4 I think. By then, Rebels and other shows were probably already benefiting from production experience gained from Clone Wars.

And for me, a bit of a damp squib of a finale.

What’s there is pretty enjoyable, but it just did feel finale.

It wrapped the season up fine overall not a bad season but too much filler in the middle and relies a bit too much on Omega although they do point out this episode that she is actually older that clone force 99.

The... blasted city _landed_ on the transport tunnel, and everything was fine? I gave the show too much credit.

I could go into a long list of nitpicks (dragon turtle cameo, breached hulls and cracked glass not flooding, etc), but mostly I'm amazed at how much the Batch were jerks to Crosshair, even when he was being useful, helpful and saving Omega. Not even a basic thank you or acknowledgement, except from her.

Drowned Rat Omega is far more adorable than 'crested mountain range hair' Omega.

And... yeah, ended on a cool looking base that we didn't get to see.

---
Overall, that was a uninteresting end to a lackluster show of wasted potential.
It had a brief moment of honest emotion when they were watching the clone incubators flare and die, but that was seriously it.

I was surprised with all the cameos and new friends made not a single one helped out or made an appearance in the finale. Hell, not even the clone/s they saved that got Hunter captured. They saved him, and then he was just gone. Thanks for getting me out of there. Shame about your buddy. Later!

Guess we know where all the Republic Commandos went after the war.

Anyway, yeah, that was a very dark episode. Literally. It was very dark, and it made seeing things quite hard. It also meant that your big finale was mostly in the dark.

Overall that was a fine episode, but a poor season finale. Also saving EZ was a cop-out.

 insaniak wrote:
I was somewhat amused to note that all of the stuff that so many 'hardcore fans' complained about with this show, my 8 and 5 year old absolutely love.

The Clone Wars movie, the one that came out in cinemas, wasn't particularly good. And Ahsoka rubbed a lot of people the wrong way, but over time people grew to love her.

I couldn't stand her at first, and now she's one of my 3 fav SW characters alongside Luke and Vader. Ahsoka is my D+ avatar.

 insaniak wrote:
Ultimately, this was a show for kids.

Uhh... no. This is where I will disagree.

The tonal whiplash with Clone Wars, especially in those first 3 seasons, is exhausting. It vacillates constantly between "slapstick kids comedy" and "OMG people are dying everywhere!" is kinda nuts. One minute you have Jar Jar knocking over dinner plates, the next Clones wiping out Geonosians with flamethrowers, or Ahsoka getting in multi-decapitations on Death Watch Mandos.

And even if Clone Wars was made for kids, the people making it didn't seem to get that memo half the time in the early days, and none of the time on the latter days (Season 5 is dark...). Additionally, the audience grew up as the show went on, meaning the people who started as kids weren't necessarily kids by the time it ended (the first time... and certainly the second time).

From a plot POV, kinda meh.

But I really enjoyed a lot of the visuals in the episode. The burning city, wide shots, etc.

Yeah, I can’t fault the art in Bad Batch at all.

Hopefully it’ll kick things up a few notches come season 2. In particular, just what is Crosshairs going to do?

Well. I guess The Book of Boba Fett hype train starts here?

Whilst I’ve not exactly been seeking them out, I’ve not picked up any rumours via the usual online osmosis. The Wiki article doesn’t list any cast beyond Temuera Morrison and Ming-Na Wen. Though I see Robert “has he made a duff film?*” Rodriguez directed several of the episodes.

Given he’s the man behind Desperado, Machete and Spy Kids, we could be in for a real treat. And it gives me real hope we might see Danny Trejo crop up, perhaps as a Star Wars take on Machete/Navajas. I’d settle for even just a brief cameo. Because you got to have Danny Trejo. Just makes sense.

*Well, Predators I guess. But there’s still a lot to enjoy in that movie.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 insaniak wrote:
I was somewhat amused to note that all of the stuff that so many 'hardcore fans' complained about with this show, my 8 and 5 year old absolutely love.

The Clone Wars movie, the one that came out in cinemas, wasn't particularly good. And Ahsoka rubbed a lot of people the wrong way, but over time people grew to love her.

I couldn't stand her at first, and now she's one of my 3 fav SW characters alongside Luke and Vader. Ahsoka is my D+ avatar.

Here is the thing. That movie was not meant to be a movie. It was the first Arc of the show. It was 4 episodes stitched together into a movie. So pacing is off and it doesn't have movie level animation.

 hotsauceman1 wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 insaniak wrote:
I was somewhat amused to note that all of the stuff that so many 'hardcore fans' complained about with this show, my 8 and 5 year old absolutely love.

The Clone Wars movie, the one that came out in cinemas, wasn't particularly good. And Ahsoka rubbed a lot of people the wrong way, but over time people grew to love her.

I couldn't stand her at first, and now she's one of my 3 fav SW characters alongside Luke and Vader. Ahsoka is my D+ avatar.

Here is the thing. That movie was not meant to be a movie. It was the first Arc of the show. It was 4 episodes stitched together into a movie. So pacing is off and it doesn't have movie level animation.

Are you two commenting on the same one? Because there were two, and they're very different beasts. The first one was a Samurai Jack-style Jedi superheroes movie where they could faceroll entire armies by themselves.

---

HBMC wrote:The tonal whiplash with Clone Wars, especially in those first 3 seasons, is exhausting. It vacillates constantly between "slapstick kids comedy" and "OMG people are dying everywhere!" is kinda nuts. One minute you have Jar Jar knocking over dinner plates, the next Clones wiping out Geonosians with flamethrowers, or Ahsoka getting in multi-decapitations on Death Watch Mandos.

Don't forget the repeated moral message: all pacifists are evil secret traitors, abusive, or just plain stupid. Yay kids shows!

----

AduroT wrote:I was surprised with all the cameos and new friends made not a single one helped out or made an appearance in the finale. Hell, not even the clone/s they saved that got Hunter captured. They saved him, and then he was just gone. Thanks for getting me out of there. Shame about your buddy. Later!

Yeah, I was definitely shocked by the lack of cameos or help. But I didn't expect their inevitable (but plodding) escape to be the whole frickkin' episode, either.
The idea they wouldn't get out was so absurd that the episode had no stakes whatsoever.

I think that if you felt the survival of the entirety of the shows' leading ensemble was going to be at stake in any sense when Season 2 was confirmed prior to airing, it is no wonder you were disappointed.

The stakes of the episode all hinged on the relationship between the main 5 and Crosshair, and whether it could be repaired. In that regard I think it succeeded in maintaining a degree of uncertainty, and left it at an intriguing point to move forward.

I agree with the poster above and their opinion.

Forced to trust each other once more, and we end up with a narratively delightful “kind of. Ish” outcome.

To end with either extreme would’ve felt cheap and boring. Instead we end up with an uncertain relationship, and in Crosshairs, an uncertain future.

Perhaps in the coming seasons we’ll see that seed of rationality (no, not doubt) change his mind.

I for one am looking forward to finding out.

YEah we knew they would make it out with possibly one not make it.
People focus on the wrong stakes sometimes.

 Azreal13 wrote:
I think that if you felt the survival of the entirety of the shows' leading ensemble was going to be at stake in any sense when Season 2 was confirmed prior to airing, it is no wonder you were disappointed.

Its star wars. Killing the mentor figure so the youth can take center stage is pretty much a tradition.
I figured they're be a dramatic death for at least one, though the obvious candidate was Hunter rather than the interchangeable tech guys or Omega's part-time legs. Instead... no one was at risk at any point.

The stakes of the episode all hinged on the relationship between the main 5 and Crosshair, and whether it could be repaired. In that regard I think it succeeded in maintaining a degree of uncertainty, and left it at an intriguing point to move forward.

I found that aspect to be abysmal. The Batch spent the episode crapping on him, and he spent the episode telling Hunter how wrong he was (and ignored his other brothers, despite how terrible it was that they 'abandoned' him). There isn't any uncertainty at all. They agreed to disagree, and fethed off. Naturally season 2 will engineer repeated reasons for them to work together, or simply abandon this plotline as a bad idea.

No one was forced to trust anyone, they didn't cooperate, work together, they just... complained as they walked through the fake challenges on the way to the surface and went their separate ways. Or rather, they left and he... stood on an empty landing platform hours after his side left him for dead? I guess someone will pick him up or something. Or not. Whatever.
Which is pretty much the note the season ended on- a big pile of whatever.

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
Here is the thing. That movie was not meant to be a movie. It was the first Arc of the show. It was 4 episodes stitched together into a movie. So pacing is off and it doesn't have movie level animation.

I know it was 4 episodes stitched together, and it was out of order with the actual Clone Wars story, as was everything in the first few seasons. As far as the animation quality goes, it was the same as it was throughout the first part of Clone Wars. It was a show that had continuous improvement as time went on.

Voss wrote:
Are you two commenting on the same one? Because there were two, and they're very different beasts. The first one was a Samurai Jack-style Jedi superheroes movie where they could faceroll entire armies by themselves.

We are. Besides, the original Clone Wars cartoon didn't get a theatrical release, IIRC.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

Voss wrote:
Are you two commenting on the same one? Because there were two, and they're very different beasts. The first one was a Samurai Jack-style Jedi superheroes movie where they could faceroll entire armies by themselves.

We are. Besides, the original Clone Wars cartoon didn't get a theatrical release, IIRC.

It also wasn't presented as a movie - it aired in 3 minute episodes over three seasons, and was later released on two DVDs.

I’ve been watching The Mandalorian again today, an act which requires no justification in and of itself.

I’m again drawn to the fact that the Cruiser from the end of Season 2 cannot possibly be the totality of Gideon’s resources.

For a start, in The Heiress, the Gozanti Captain is ordered to rejoin the fleet. A fleet is not just one ship. And if it was just the two of them, why not say “rejoin the flagship”?

Now we know as that class of Cruiser goes, it’s seemingly unusual. Larger than your standard Arquitens, sure. But seemingly more of a science and research vessel, given how poorly it was staffed. Certainly by the time Mando & Chums take the bridge, it’s basically just the Dark Troopers left to fight them.

And what better way to manage your nefarious scheme than to keep your Secret Project well away from your main resources? That way, should the New Republic rumble your main fleet, you’ve got somewhere to run to, and one they won’t necessarily think let alone know to look for.

If he does have a Star Destroyer, then the cruiser would likely be a casualty in any fleet action, given its well dinky and easily overwhelmed - and more of a threat to star fighters by comparison.

Man I can’t wait for season 3!

Gilad Pellaeon has entered the chat? Hopefully.