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Star Wars hasn’t been in a single Galaxy since Attack of the Clones.

Kamino is in wild space, outside of the Rishi Maze. The Rishi Maze, canonically, being a dwarf Galaxy outside the main one.

And in terms of “where the blinking flip are we”? The end of Empire Strikes Back shows the Rebel Fleet well outside the main Galaxy.



Whether that’s in deep space or looking on from the Rishi Maze or simply proper intergalactic space you’d need to look into with a Google.

Bran Dawri wrote:
Am I the only one who didn't particularly care for Andor?

I hate Andor. And I love Andor. And I'm excited for more Andor. And I don't care about more Andor.

Andor is inherently contradictory because it's highs are so high, but it's lows are so low. There so much good, but so mad bad. So much excitement, but episodes where nothing fething happens for 40 minutes.

It's a frustrating show.

 LunarSol wrote:
That's enough for a 90 minute action film It just doesn't work for 6ish hours of television.

You missed the 2nd act, which is just all about the Mandalorian and Baby Yoda for some reason.

Andor had zero reason to be more than 5-6 episodes.

Disney has a nasty habit of overcomplicating the plots of its series with pointless sideplots/adventures and characters who distract from the actual plot.

Like the whole Imperial CIA drama side of Andor was completely unnecessary.

Or the corporate security guy thing was completely unnecessary.

Only one of those plot points needed to be in the series.

And don't get me started on the heist or the prison saga, both of which should have been 1 episode affairs and could have been if the plot didn't have so many unnecessary characters taking up screen time to contribute an incremental +1 inch advancement in the obscure investigation into the literally least important man in the universe that ultimately goes nowhere.

But the first 3 episodes are pretty great. Shame the rest of the season just becomes a by the numbers checklist of dull.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
So much excitement, but episodes where nothing fething happens for 40 minutes.

IMO this is why Andor works so well. The show actually takes the time to build up characters, set the context for the action, and give the audience a chance to catch their breath between action scenes. It's the exact opposite of one of the main reasons the sequel trilogy is so terrible: the relentless jumping from plot checkpoint to plot checkpoint as fast as possible, as if it's the worst possible failure if the movie goes a whole 60 seconds without something exploding. Cram all the action into a series half the length and you have nothing but another forgettable D+ CGI spectacle, forgotten as soon as the last episode finishes.

(This is also part of why Mandalorian S1 was so great and why the quality has declined as the series progresses.)


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 LordofHats wrote:
Only one of those plot points needed to be in the series.

No, they both needed to be there because we needed to see both sides of the coin: the banality of the corrupt local cops the average citizen of the Empire suffers, and the high-level secret police that are why people feared and hated the Empire enough to risk everything to overthrow it.

And don't get me started on the heist or the prison saga, both of which should have been 1 episode affairs and could have been if the plot didn't have so many unnecessary characters taking up screen time to contribute an incremental +1 inch advancement in the obscure investigation into the literally least important man in the universe that ultimately goes nowhere.

Those parts would've sucked if they'd been single episodes. Just another context-free action scene, rushing as fast as possible to the next thing to blow up, with characters you don't care about because they're just "blink and you miss it" background scenery for the next action scene with the main character.

And Andor himself may not be the most important person but he's symbolic of a key element of the setting we've never seen before now: the average rebel. Not a hero, not a jedi, just an average person finally pushed too far by the Empire and dealing with all the dirty and ruthless stuff a terrorist uprising against an authoritarian state involves. Skip quickly through his story and you just have to replace him with someone else, or fail to tell the story the series is trying to tell.

 ThePaintingOwl wrote:
First impression: it's ok. The "puzzles" straight out of a video game were kind of lame and could have been brute forced in a few minutes, making the characters all look like idiots. But I guess if you had something genuinely difficult to open the map it wouldn't be possible to show it on-screen, so meh. Overall it seems to be doing a decent enough job of bridging the gap between the end of the OT and the dumpster fire of the sequels, so far as such a thing is possible at all. So far I guess I'll rate it not as good as Andor or Mandalorian S1, better than the mess of Boba Fett and Obi-wan?


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 tauist wrote:
But hey, at least its made for the female audience, inclusivity and all that..

Lolwut? Do you think that having female characters is "made for the female audience" or was there something else you're referring to here?

They werent being very subtle about it. Man, the whole show coulda been screenwritten by the makers of Killing Eve, and nobody would have noticed the diff

Anyway, I have spoken. Not a fan, next SW spinoff pls

 tauist wrote:
They werent being very subtle about it.

Subtle about what? The fact that women exist on-screen? That previously established characters from a popular show did in fact return? You haven't really "spoken" about anything so I'm starting to suspect your real complaint here is something you know people here aren't going to tolerate.

Look man, it’s a very well established fact that you’re only supposed to have one, Maybe two token female characters per group. Your Black Widow, your Wonder Woman, your Pink/Yellow Ranger, your Princess Allura. This show so far is giving us three main heroes, three main villains, and of them all only one is a dude! That’s just a completely unrealistic gender disparity… And of course they compound this absolute injustice by making two of the three heroes colored (orange/green)!

Absolutely agreed. I don't see why green people should be represented on screen. Just look at them and their green ways! Green people are my least favorite minority and they should be yours, too.

Remember when Disney thought they had a boy problem, as in their demographics were too heavily skewed towards girls, so they went and started acquiring properties so they could also appeal more to boys.

Funny how things turn out.

 ThePaintingOwl wrote:


No, they both needed to be there because we needed to see both sides of the coin: the banality of the corrupt local cops the average citizen of the Empire suffers, and the high-level secret police that are why people feared and hated the Empire enough to risk everything to overthrow it.

The people on Random Rimworld #3456 (indistinguishable from all the others really) didn't even know much about the high-level secret police. Nevermind that there's nothing one of those parties couldn't have done the other could have done to streamline the narrative into something less meandering. One side of the story was a pointless hanger on after 3 episodes and the other half mostly just showed up to give briefings on incremental process. The whole thing didn't need to be as long as it is and built up to very little.

Those parts would've sucked if they'd been single episodes.

They sucked in general. One spends time introducing a whole bunch of characters who go on to not have any plot relevance, and then the other does exactly the same thing. But in classic Disney Wars fashion, Cassian is a melancholic layabout until the obviously evil Empire makes it personal because that's the only kind of hero Disney seems to be able to write.

Just another context-free action scene, rushing as fast as possible to the next thing to blow up, with characters you don't care about because they're just "blink and you miss it" background scenery for the next action scene with the main character.

I don't understand.

You just described those episodes. The only difference is they dragged so long your eyes glazed over waiting for the plot to get on with it. A 'nod off and you never even noticed' background scenery for the next action scene.

Much like Kenobi and Boba Fett, Andor reeks of a well-conceived movie script that someone meddled with to turn into a needlessly long TV series, inserting unnecessary plot elements that dragged and dragged simply to pad out time.

just an average person

The only thing even remotely average about Cassian is his averagely generic tragic background story that could have been cut from the film entirely and you probably wouldn't miss it.

 LordofHats wrote:
They sucked in general. One spends time introducing a whole bunch of characters who go on to not have any plot relevance, and then the other does exactly the same thing. But in classic Disney Wars fashion, Cassian is a melancholic layabout until the obviously evil Empire makes it personal because that's the only kind of hero Disney seems to be able to write.

That's an accurate portrayal of someone living under an authoritarian regime though. The Empire wasn't Cassian's problem until the Empire started to inconvenience him, at which point his eyes are opened to the wider cause of the Rebellion. The prison arc is Cassian's blunt awakening to the realities of the Empire.

As for all the characters, not every single character that is introduced needs to have a sprawling arc that lasts every single episode of a show. The heist crew serves as Cassian's introduction to the Rebellion, with some who are committed to the cause and others who are in it for the money or revenge. The prisoners are all people that Cassian can identify with and realise that his situation is not unique, the Empire is enslaving thousands of people for made-up crimes.

As for the Simp Cop, he's tragic. He sees the cold callous hand of the Empire take away his livelihood and purpose, and then when he thinks he's helping the Empire uses and discards him. But still, he keeps coming back because he's been indoctrinated into loving a system that doesn't care about him.

 Gert wrote:


As for all the characters, not every single character that is introduced needs to have a sprawling arc that lasts every single episode of a show.

Tell that to Andor?

We spend 2 whole (count them 2) episodes on getting to know the heist crew. And we didn't really need to know any of them for that long, least of all because all but 2 are dead by the end of the 3rd episode. And those two keep coming back mostly just to take up time and be broody, and not do much of anything. They don't really contribute anything to the plot except to have a facade of an arc that isn't really there.

You could have cut all the personal time spent with these characters. We didn't need 2 episodes spent on it.

Same with the prison. We spent 2 whole episodes on a sprawling arc about the prison that didn't need to exist, least of all because none of these characters end up mattering. On top of that, why did Cassian need his eyes opened? He was already stealing stuff from the Empire and was given a blandly tragic backstory for hating them (twice in fact, once on Lord of the Flies planet and again when Daddy Figure was killed for nothing) so why does this show need to spend 3 whole episodes further justifying Cassian not liking the Empire when he already didn't like them? What did the prison contribute to the plot or the character that wasn't achieved in the riot finale and his mom's whole bit? You could literally skip all of those episodes, cut them completely out of the series, and I'm not sure anyone would even notice.

Don't tell me every single character doesn't need a sprawling arc. I'm past that. That's 10 miles behind my point.

Every character does not need a sprawling arc, and every character who contributes nothing to the broader plot but to take up time and pad out the series to 12 episodes should probably have a hard eye cast on them and a series question of 'does this character need to be here?'

Andor has a cast where the answer to that question is mostly no.

And I liked the corporate tryhard guy. The corporate tryhard guy was a refreshing sort of villain for Star Wars.

Sadly, he's a zombie character who ceases to be plot-relevant at all after Ep 3 but keeps coming back to remind us he exists so he can save generically evil bland evil woman from death at the end. You can almost see the editing lines though, where Andor was first written as Les Miserabes in SPACE with Cassian as Val Jean and corporate tryhard guy as Javier but with twists on the archetype that make them interesting. And them someone kicked the door down and started inserting all this other crap into it which is sadly how most of the Disney+ series have played out.

I was gonna write a big post but I can't be bothered.
You seem to really hate Andor and I don't nearly care enough about this discussion to have it with someone this angry about a TV show.

 Gert wrote:
I was gonna write a big post but I can't be bothered.

Doors right over there. You could just, idk, take it?

I'm angerd by this puerile 'I would talk to you but it's not worth my time' attitude a lot more than any TV show so do us both a favor I guess.

You seem to really hate Andor

I would say disappointed, but that wouldn't be you telling me what my opinion should be and then being angry and indignant about it.

Andor is different enough from “real” Star Wars that I’m afraid this is how discussion will always go. Personally, I agree that Andor needed every episode, and furthermore think it is the best Star Wars thing since The Empire Strikes Back, although Mando season 1 comes close.

I’d much rather Disney took more risks that might result in another Andor than keep pumping out unambitious, uninteresting shows and movies, even if they fail. I’d rather see another SW Holiday Special than another Book of Boba Fett or Kenobi.

@Mad Doc: I didn't have a problem with any particular plot point in Andor. It's just that the way it was put together the show meanders around without going anywhere.
Worse, (or maybe consequently) it was just boring.

The "average downtrodden bloke gets pushed into the Rebellion" is literally Star Wars' (ANH) first main story - both Luke and Han - and was done better, or at least more interestingly both there, in Rebels, and in Rogue One. It's pretty much a SW trope at this point.

Bran Dawri wrote:
The "average downtrodden bloke gets pushed into the Rebellion" is literally Star Wars' (ANH) first main story - both Luke and Han - and was done better, or at least more interestingly both there, in Rebels, and in Rogue One. It's pretty much a SW trope at this point.

I don't think that's ANH. ANH is the classic "hero's journey" where yeah, technically the character may start as an average guy but very quickly ascends to hero status. And in the case of Luke it's even made very clear that he only thought he was an average guy, he was the hero with a heroic destiny from a family of Main Characters. Andor breaks away from that, he's an average guy who joins the rebellion and becomes an average soldier. We've very much been missing that kind of story.


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 LordofHats wrote:
The people on Random Rimworld #3456 (indistinguishable from all the others really) didn't even know much about the high-level secret police.

But people in other places do. A senator isn't living in terror of being caught by some fumbling local cops, the ISB scenes establish why everyone, top to bottom, has reason to fear and hate the Empire. And the ISB plot serves a vital role in showing the audience that the Empire is not a joke. It's not all fumbling local idiots and memes about stormtrooper accuracy, there's the cold-blooded and efficient bureaucracy of the secret police that will disappear your whole planet without a moment of hesitation. And when they show up on Random Rimworld #3456 at the end of the season you know things are serious.

They sucked in general. One spends time introducing a whole bunch of characters who go on to not have any plot relevance, and then the other does exactly the same thing.

I think you're in the minority with the opinion that they sucked, but I suppose taste is subjective.

And who cares if the characters don't have any greater plot relevance? They have relevance within their particular arc and they add to building the world. The idea that every character must have major galaxy-scale plot relevance is how we get sequel nonsense like Rey being Palpatine's daughter.

I don't understand.

Then I don't really know what else to say, besides taste is subjective. If you think none of the stuff between action scenes had any value then either you weren't paying much attention or you have vastly different expectations.

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
Andor is different enough from “real” Star Wars

I have no idea what "real Star Wars" is or isn't, but it has nothing to do with me.

I don't even think this is a Star Wars problem. This is just the continuing moral Aesop about what happens when people make assumptions playing out. It's a very toxic thing. Fosters a lingering air of ill feelings and latent hostility. Have we tried not doing that and seeing if it works better?

’d much rather Disney took more risks that might result in another Andor

Yeah there's the disconnect. I don't see the 'risk' here. Andor starts strong, falls back onto unambitious and uninteresting halfway through, and tries to claw its way out a bit toward the end, but I don't see anything about as particularly risky. If Andor is better than Boba, it's just that it's less of a mess. I wouldn't compare it favorably to Mando S1 at all. If we were to make comparisons, I'd recall that Mando S1 told a heist story and didn't need a feature-length movie's timeslot to do it in.

If anything, I worry that chasing fish like Andor is exactly what produced Obiwan and Bad Batch S2. I don't really see these things as remarkably better or worse than each other. They're really just better than Boba but anything worse than Boba probably falls into so bad it's good territory.

I’d rather see another SW Holiday Special

I noticed they had that old Ewoks cartoon on D+. I'd totally forgotten that even existed. I don't think I ever knew it had 2 seasons. That stuff is trippy. Like someone boiled a bunch of stuff from the 70s and 80s into one cartoon and had a... Well, it's definitely a cartoon.

I think you're in the minority with the opinion that they sucked

I'm also apparently in the minority of knowing what a non sequitor is.

The idea that every character must have major galaxy-scale plot relevance is how we get sequel nonsense like Rey being Palpatine's daughter.

Seriously.

This was the first thing I posted on this page;

 LordofHats wrote:
Andor had zero reason to be more than 5-6 episodes.

Disney has a nasty habit of overcomplicating the plots of its series with pointless sideplots/adventures and characters who distract from the actual plot.

Is there someone behind me making some other post I don't know about? Cause this is ridiculous. Taste is subjective yeah, but taste really isn't even what is being debated in here anymore. There's a crisis of comprehension going on.

Considering how popular Andor has been with viewers and with critics, it’s fair to say it was successful, if not universally so. As for the risks—seriously? You’re the one who found the show boring and pointless. That was the risk: that a slower plotted, more of a “historical drama” take on Star Wars rather than a WW2/samurai/western Star Wars might bore Star Wars fans. And yes, by “real Star Wars” I do mean the faster paced adventure films with pew-pews and sword fights. Andor was not that, which can only be seen as a risk compared to another Baby Yoda Boba Armored Lightsaber Space Battle show.

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
Andor was not that, which can only be seen as a risk compared to another Baby Yoda Boba Armored Lightsaber Space Battle show.

So you think Mando S1 was trash? Well the critics and the viewers disagree with you. The idea that every character must have major galaxy-scale plot relevance is how we get sequel nonsense like Rey being Palpatine's daughter. Anything that isn't bodies hitting the floor is just wasted time and if you think it wasn't a success you're just wrong.

See the issue?

I do.

It helps to know what you mean by 'real Star Wars' but pacing isn't the issue I'd take with Andor and it's not the one I made. Even if someone did cut all the bits I saw as a drag on Andor's plot, it would still be a slow-paced show. I have no issue with a slow-paced Star Wars show. I don't like yet another Star Wars show that has a solid core idea, but then piles onto it a lot of really unnecessary bloat that makes the show boring to watch at times.

You’re the one who found the show boring and pointless.

Because reading comprehension is a minority skill (or maybe it's just subjective, idk); I didn't call the show boring. I didn't call it pointless. I called parts of it boring and pointless and I specified what those parts are.

That's my opinion.

It be nice if I could say it without... Whatever the hell the rest of you are ranting about and ascribing to me. Cause I said none of this stuff you guys are getting worked up about.

Scroll up. I said Mando S1 was the only thing that came close to Andor. It was also a risk when it started, with no Skywalkers or Jedi.

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
Scroll up. I said Mando S1 was the only thing that came close to Andor. It was also a risk when it started, with no Skywalkers or Jedi.

Don't even know why anyone bothers posting if they're just not going to read anything past the first line. That would certainly explain the failure to comprehend, though.

Nah, I read it. It’s just more of the same crap you gave Gert. You go on about how you found PARTS of Andor boring but take umbrage at me summing up your complaints as “you found it boring”. You also had a lot of
Problems with characters that I summed up as “pointless”. Fine. Andor wasn’t a show that tickled your pickle. It was absolutely regarded as the best Star Wars since Mando S1 or even the OT by a significant portion, if not a majority, of the fanbase, which is more than Mando S2, Mando S3, Kenobi, Boba Fett, Clone Wars, Rebels, Bad Batch, the prequels, the sequels, Solo and Rogue One can say. Your complaints about Andor all boil down to your particular tastes. They are not objective criticisms, nor do most fans even agree that your dislikes are flaws.


It wasn’t for you. But it did manage to connect with many. Star Wars needs more hits that connect with fans.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Remember when Disney thought they had a boy problem, as in their demographics were too heavily skewed towards girls, so they went and started acquiring properties so they could also appeal more to boys.

Funny how things turn out.

I still don't see the relevance. Unless by "boys" you mean "5-10 year olds who think girls are gross" there's nothing in Ahsoka that goes outside the standard male-skewed traditional scifi market.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 LordofHats wrote:
There's a crisis of comprehension going on.

Then maybe you could clarify? You said "one spends time introducing a whole bunch of characters who go on to not have any plot relevance" about characters who have plenty of relevance in their 2-3 episode arc within the series and in the series as a whole. The only plot relevance they don't have is the grand-scale Skywalker Saga stuff, and excessive focus on that specific kind of plot relevance is what produced the sequel nonsense.

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
Nah, I read it.

Read it again. See if you can catch the sarcasm.

It’s just more of the same crap you gave Gert.

I really don't think the problem is Andor not being 'real Star Wars.'

Your complaints about Andor all boil down to your particular tastes. They are not objective criticisms, nor do most fans even agree that your dislikes are flaws.

I'm not sure how I feel about your radical theories, or your bizarre desire to express them aloud and in public.

It wasn’t for you.

Should I run all opinions by you in the future? You know. Make sure they're right and approved by the fanbase before I express them? Is there a form to fill out? What critics should I call to confer with and what's the wait time on approval from the High Council? Not that I don't have the time but I like to schedule any hearings ahead of time. Make sure there's not a scheduling conflict.

I'm not trying to be crappy, but the condescending attitudes in here are way worse than they were the last time I was in this thread and my opinion is that some people might be best served just walking away from Star Wars for a little bit. Take a break from the whole sphere. I'm well accustomed to defensiveness in fandoms, but this has been surreal.

 ThePaintingOwl wrote:
Then maybe you could clarify?

I'll use an example from this very thread;

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Remember when Disney thought they had a boy problem, as in their demographics were too heavily skewed towards girls, so they went and started acquiring properties so they could also appeal more to boys.

Funny how things turn out.

I still don't see the relevance. Unless by "boys" you mean "5-10 year olds who think girls are gross" there's nothing in Ahsoka that goes outside the standard male-skewed traditional scifi market.

Do you think that maybe, H.B.M.C. is referring to the idea that Disney acquired Star Wars explicitly because they wanted to increase their brand appeal toward boys and men and Star Wars has great appeal for boys?

As for Disney, acquiring Star Wars (and Lucasfilm's other productions) represents an opportunity to further extend its demographic reach to target male consumers of all ages. Over the past 15 years, Disney has been enormously successful at producing material for girls, through its Princess and Fairies brands. It has been less successful at targeting boys – although Pixars' Cars was a cash cow for the company. Recently, Disney's acquisition of Marvel Productions seems to have been driven by a desire to expand its reach to older boys. Now, when you walk into a Disney store, you turn left for princesses and right for superheroes. Acquiring Lucasfilm continues this process, of developing brands with a broad sweep of demographic appeal (and I'm not for a minute suggesting that boys exclusively like cars, space and superheroes, or girls prefer princesses – rather that this kind of thinking motivates Disney's decision). ~ Forbes

And maybe your reply to H.B.M.C.'s post grossly fails to understand what H.B.M.C. is saying? Not even grossly. Like, the failure here is so bad I don't know why I have to explain it. I'm not actually sure why H.B.M.C. brought it up, so I'm not going to assume, but yeah. You made a complete leap from what was said to something else that wasn't said.

EDIT: Admittedly, this is very old news (the Forbes article is from 2012), but yeah. You don't need a history lesson to pick up the implication that Disney acquired Star Wars to solve the so-called 'boy problem.' That's basic reading comprehension. I'm not even following that thread of talk at all, and I saw it.

The only plot relevance they don't have is the grand-scale Skywalker Saga stuff, and excessive focus on that specific kind of plot relevance is what produced the sequel nonsense.

Consider 'this' or 'that' are not the only options.

And seriously. I think more than a few people here just need to take a Star Wars break or something.

 LordofHats wrote:
I'll use an example from this very thread;

It's an excellent example because you've missed the final sentence of HBMC's post:

Funny how things turn out.

I'm well aware of Disney's motives in buying the IP, the question was about why he thinks that is relevant and why any of it is "funny". And the answer sure seems to do with the context of the preceding posts and tauist's thinly-veiled sexist complaints about Ahsoka pandering to the "female audience".

I'm not actually sure why H.B.M.C. brought it up

Then maybe before making condescending accusations about reading ability you should go back and read the posts preceding HBMC's and see why my response is not a leap at all. HBMC's follows the exchange with tauist, and my response is in that same context.

Consider 'this' or 'that' are not the only options.

No, of course there are multiple options. But the only one where I can see the complaint about plot relevance being true is about relevance to the grand Skywalker narrative. Could you clarify what plot relevance the characters are lacking in your opinion?

I think more than a few people here just need to take a Star Wars break or something.

I'm not sure why you think "Andor is a good show and I liked it" would lead you to that conclusion?

 LordofHats wrote:
I think more than a few people here just need to take a Star Wars break or something.

Disney being chief among them...

 ThePaintingOwl wrote:
It's an excellent example

Question is, will anyone learn from it?

Then maybe before making condescending accusations about reading ability

I prefer to never attribute to malice until given ample reason.

Most stupid internet arguments are just people getting hung up on stuff and talking past each other.

But the only one where I can see

I'd prefer you, and everyone else, keep your eyes out of my mouth. It's unsanitary.

I'm not sure why you think "Andor is a good show and I liked it" would lead you to that conclusion?

But there you go doing it again.

Like what you like. I've at no point, anywhere in here, told anyone what their opinion should be or what they should like.

And In my opinion some people here should get out for a bit. Andor isn't going anywhere. It'll still be there. Aren't they making a season 2? I think it'll still be there.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Disney being chief among them...

I got a laugh when those rumors about Lucas looking to buy Star Wars back circulated through social media last month.

I still think Lucas was worse (at the end). Not that it matters. I'm pretty sure Lucas couldn't buy Star Wars back even if he wanted to, and Disney sure isn't selling.

Ahsoka chapter 3

The red forest makes me want to play more No Man’s Sky, and it Did recently drop another big content update…