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It does seem to be one of the better ones, and I'm certainly enjoying it. You don't need to see Rebels (thankfully) to get a hook on the characters.
There have been plenty of other stories where a hero has been willing to risk the world/galaxy/'all that is good and bright' for chance to get a loved one back so Sabine isn't especially rare.*
It was an okay-ish episode. Sabine doesn't strike me as particularly stupid, she's just desperate to find Ezra. Their reunion was also quite awkward, which is good. It could've been a full-blown romantic running at each other with the sun setting in the background kind of affair. Not sure about Ezra yet, he looked a bit too disney Aladdin live action clean and handsome at first glance, but I'm happy to see where this will take the both of them.
Speaking of which, Balon is losing me a bit. He seems to be setting himself and Shin up for failure, with his apprentice already starting to contradict him on this entire plan. He should know that they will be left stranded once Thrawn is ready to leave, and gambling all of that against the slim chance of achieving "trve power" is a bit thin. Especially considering that they will be stranded regardless of whatever power they might find.
Elon really nails Thrawn. His mannerisms seem fitting but he sounds older than I'd have expected. Gives him more of a Tarkin-esque air, which is not a bad thing.
Not sure about all those Japanese references though. This episode we had samurai tusken and kintsugi storm troopers. I understand SW was orignially influeced by Japanese and aesthetics, but they are just overdoing it at this point.
The dialogue is awful. The direction is slow and plodding. The story takes too long to get anywhere or do anything. The entire Anakin episode made zero sense.
It is very poorly written.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2023/09/21 14:21:44
This episode was another that was just fine for me. Not exactly blowing my socks off, and I find the pacing has taken a turn for the worse over the last couple of episodes. I get that they're wanting to do some character-focused episodes, but I find with the typical season length Disney is working with that often leads to frustrations over taking time out from the main story arc. I'm not sure the writing for the characters quite merits an entire world-between-worlds character study as we got last week, for example.
Spoiler:
This week's episode felt like more of the same. Sure, we get to the other galaxy and get to see Thrawn, which is cool, but I think there are a lot of threads hanging that the writers have done a poor job with. I know, I know - just watch Rebels - but it's more a case of us being told things like how important it is Sabine finds Ezra, despite that only being important on a personal level, which makes a lot of her actions, and others, seem really weird. Why does anyone but Sabine care about Ezra? Wasn't his importance due to the events at the end of Rebels? If he is still important here (outside of Sabine's personal reasons), why hasn't that been made clear to new viewers?
Also, if it is important to track down Ezra I feel the need to ask "how hard did you try"? It turns out he's on the same planet they arrived at, within a couple of hours' walk from the major landmark of that planet.
I hope we build some momentum in the next episode since we only have 2 left.
I think the fact that the very first episode has the idiot ball being passed onto the New Republic officers guarding a VIP prisoner via Morgan by letting Balon and Shin board their ship when they're already suspicious about them does not scream "good writing" to me. That's like letting a masked guy into your house during a horror movie when you know there's a serial killer about because you have a feeling it might be them, and then do a surprised pikachu face when he starts stabbing people.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2023/09/21 14:50:40
Grimskul wrote: I think the fact that the very first episode has the idiot ball being passed onto the New Republic officers guarding a VIP prisoner via Morgan by letting Balon and Shin board their ship when they're already suspicious about them does not scream "good writing" to me. That's like letting a masked guy into your house during a horror movie when you know there's a serial killer about because you have a feeling it might be them, and then do a surprised pikachu face when he starts stabbing people.
There are two confirmed Jedi left abroad in the Galaxy. Luke, and Ahsoka.
As far as the Captain was concerned? He and his security detail were off to go and nab some former Imperials. Nobody expects the not-quite-Jedi-but-also-not-exactly-Sith-Inquisition.
Fed up of Scalpers? But still want your Exclusives? Why not join us?
@MDG. I’m not calling her stupid for her poor choice or a single heartfelt mistake. I’m calling her stupid because she shooed away her mount in the desert. She scoffed that the local dog might better know than she did what was just a rock and what was hiding a creature. She interrupted Ezra and refused to discuss critical, need-to-know information in favor of just living the moment…stranded on a hostile planet while everything her fixation risked his life to achieve was undone. That’s not one bad decision or the heart overriding the brain—that’s simple, everyday stupidity. And if you want, I can find examples in every previous episode.
This reminds me of the discussion before the strike on why streaming “mini rooms” produced crap series. First, they had fewer than half the writers. Second, the writers had a much smaller window of time. Third, all the writing was done before the series started, so bad takes or dodgy casting became much more impactful. The writers never meet the actors, visit the set, or get to fine tune the scripts depending on what works and what falls flat.
Watching Stargate SG1 behind the scenes, the actors and directors were always talking to the writers. “I don’t think this works.” “My character wouldn’t say/do this.” This actor has more comedic chops, so we started giving him more to work with. That actor’s delivery lead us to this change in dialogue.
Remember in B5 where fan feedback let Boxleitner know that Sheridan smiled too much and it was annoying? Dawson won’t hear about her character leaning back with arms crossed until it’s too late to course correct.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2023/09/21 15:33:23
I know Star Wars names are never what you expect, but maybe we should stop butchering Baylan's name (I had to look it up, too) or go all in and add that second o to Balon already. Just saying.
Grimskul wrote: I think the fact that the very first episode has the idiot ball being passed onto the New Republic officers guarding a VIP prisoner via Morgan by letting Balon and Shin board their ship when they're already suspicious about them does not scream "good writing" to me. That's like letting a masked guy into your house during a horror movie when you know there's a serial killer about because you have a feeling it might be them, and then do a surprised pikachu face when he starts stabbing people.
Not sure that qualifies as idiot ball. I seem to remember that they transmitted valid Jedi identification codes and it was just the captain not believing that he was dealing with real Jedi. Which would put him in a bind. If they're Jedi and he turns them away, he risks a diplomatic incident. If they're not, he lets potential criminals get away that try to con people by posing as Jedi, when his duty is to uphold the law.
We as the audience know for a fact that something dodgy is going on, because we know the setting and we saw the trailer. The captain wouldn't suspect that you can't walk two steps without falling over a Force user, and more likely than not a darksider at that. He doesn't have all that many options in that situation.
LunarSol wrote: I did find it funny that they've introduced the term Bokken as a way to try and keep Yoda "technically correct".
Obi-Wan was turned into a filthy liar with ulterior motives person with a different perspective in the original trilogy, and the more stories he got since, the more senility got added to his rap sheet. I get the sense that they are making every effort to preserve the dignity of the other wise Jedi master from the original trilogy, lest they run out. They only have the two.
Nehekhara lives! Sort of!
Why is the rum always gone?
LunarSol wrote: I did find it funny that they've introduced the term Bokken as a way to try and keep Yoda "technically correct".
im sorry, what? im not sure what your reffering to here
To be a man in such times is to be one amongst untold billions. It is to live in the cruelest and most bloody regime imaginable. These are the tales of those times. Forget the power of technology and science, for so much has been forgotten, never to be relearned. Forget the promise of progress and understanding, for in the grim dark future there is only war. There is no peace amongst the stars, only an eternity of carnage and slaughter, and the laughter of thirsting gods.
Coven of XVth 2000pts
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Not sure that qualifies as idiot ball. I seem to remember that they transmitted valid Jedi identification codes and it was just the captain not believing that he was dealing with real Jedi. Which would put him in a bind. If they're Jedi and he turns them away, he risks a diplomatic incident. If they're not, he lets potential criminals get away that try to con people by posing as Jedi, when his duty is to uphold the law.
.
Given the time frame, there are no 'jedi' for him to turn away.
There's Luke, who's self taught (and they obviously aren't him) and Ashoka refuses to call herself one (or used to, given how she left the order after being set up as a scapegoat).
He doesn't believe them because there's no such animal. Why he decided to let them land and personally meet with them anyway is complete nonsense- the only explanation is idiot ball.
LunarSol wrote: I did find it funny that they've introduced the term Bokken as a way to try and keep Yoda "technically correct".
im sorry, what? im not sure what your reffering to here
Baylan calls Ezra a Bokken Jedi. Literally it means "wooden sword". Something that resembles the real thing but no where near as effective.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
BobtheInquisitor wrote: I’m calling her stupid because she shooed away her mount in the desert.
This is clearly meant to endear the audience with the creature, but if you're going to send it off you should probably at least take your stuff out of the saddle bags
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2023/09/21 16:23:30
I meant on the "yoda technically correct" part. I must have missed or mis-heard that line, when did he say that? Im guessing this most recent episode but i must have missed it.
To be a man in such times is to be one amongst untold billions. It is to live in the cruelest and most bloody regime imaginable. These are the tales of those times. Forget the power of technology and science, for so much has been forgotten, never to be relearned. Forget the promise of progress and understanding, for in the grim dark future there is only war. There is no peace amongst the stars, only an eternity of carnage and slaughter, and the laughter of thirsting gods.
Coven of XVth 2000pts
The Blades of Ruin 2,000pts Watch Company Rho 1650pts
Not sure that qualifies as idiot ball. I seem to remember that they transmitted valid Jedi identification codes and it was just the captain not believing that he was dealing with real Jedi. Which would put him in a bind. If they're Jedi and he turns them away, he risks a diplomatic incident. If they're not, he lets potential criminals get away that try to con people by posing as Jedi, when his duty is to uphold the law.
.
Given the time frame, there are no 'jedi' for him to turn away.
There's Luke, who's self taught (and they obviously aren't him) and Ashoka refuses to call herself one (or used to, given how she left the order after being set up as a scapegoat).
He doesn't believe them because there's no such animal. Why he decided to let them land and personally meet with them anyway is complete nonsense- the only explanation is idiot ball.
Alright then. What should he have done if he were to handle the situation sensibly? Let's hear it.
All he has to go on are old but valid Jedi codes. That's the only identification he gets. He can take that at face value or, as he does, figure they're Imperial imposters trying to pull something. But at that point, he has absolutely no way of knowing. What's he going to do? Shoot them before he verifies who he's shooting up? Get out of there and miss the rendezvous for which he's there in the first place?
He could tell them to hold until backup arrives. That's about the safest way to handle the situation, but that's admitting that a cruiser with a sizable security force can't handle the handful of people that can fit inside a tiny little shuttle. Why would he do that?
Nehekhara lives! Sort of!
Why is the rum always gone?
Alright then. What should he have done if he were to handle the situation sensibly? Let's hear it.
Deny them entry onto his ship. Once they move to board without permission, he knows they are malcontents and can act accordingly.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2023/09/21 17:02:57
"Sometimes the only victory possible is to keep your opponent from winning." - The Emperor, from The Outcast Dead.
"Tell your gods we are coming for them, and that their realms will burn as ours did." -Thostos Bladestorm
After giving it some more thought, I think the plot so far kind of misses the mark in its characterization of Thrawn.
Spoiler:
When I think of Thrawn I usually think of someone who is regimented and orderly and tends towards a more prosaic and grounded view of the galaxy and his dealings with it. Its weird to see him accepting the near-fanatical level of devotion and borderline worship of the Nightroopers, its weird to see him accept Enochs out-of-regulation helmet customization (remember, Vader was outside of the military hierarchy, otherwise the vast majority of Imperial officers and troops conform to regulation), its weird to see him accept the kintsugi modifications and repairs of the nighttroopers gear - I can buy that 10-15 years or whatever with no real supply lines/replacements and constant wear might make it a practical necessity and they might not have the resources to uh, repaint it or something, so I'm willing to overlook that to some extent - but the level of disrepair beyond that (all the dirt and grime) begins to push the boundaries a bit.I would expect Thrawn to maintain order and discipline and insist that his command continue to maintain their equipment to the best degree possible - the non-kintsugi'd cracks on a lot of the gear strikes me as something that he would not allow to pass muster, I would expect more of an effort, I guess. Likewise, the red nightsister-esque non-regulation wrappings around most of them strikes me as being a touch too far - again I would expect some standardization in it (all of them wrap their left forearm in the same way, for example) if he allowed it at all. Its just too rag-tag for his personality and character - like, look at his own uniform - it still looks impeccable (though I think I may have noticed some minor tears in the fabric, still looks reasonably well maintained given the situation) and maintained in compliance with military regulation.
The other weird thing is the idea of zombie stormtroopers, too much hokey space-magic for him IMO.
chaos0xomega wrote: Feels a bit like Star Wars is going a bit of esoteric and 40k-like with
Spoiler:
Enoch's sweet sweet masked stormtrooper helmet. Also the whole name "Enoch" is downright biblical
My thought, too. It’s a weird design choice and naming convention for Star Wars. But for 40k….
It's a theme in keeping with the naming they decided on for the Specters when they made Rebels. It's ancient Mediterranean flavored. Hera, Kanan, Sabine, Orrelius, Ezra...
Hey thats a good point, nice catch. I wonder if that implies that Enoch might turn out to be a good guy? Maybe this is a new version of the "Noghri bodyguard betrays Thrawn and assassinates him" storyline from legends? After all, everyone you listed is a good guy, right? Thinking back to it, Kallus's name is vaguely Mediterranean as well (in that the root word "callus" is literally latin), and he flipped.
...Chopper.
I'm sorry, what? Chopper is a Mediterranean name??
Grimskul wrote: I think the fact that the very first episode has the idiot ball being passed onto the New Republic officers guarding a VIP prisoner via Morgan by letting Balon and Shin board their ship when they're already suspicious about them does not scream "good writing" to me. That's like letting a masked guy into your house during a horror movie when you know there's a serial killer about because you have a feeling it might be them, and then do a surprised pikachu face when he starts stabbing people.
There are two confirmed Jedi left abroad in the Galaxy. Luke, and Ahsoka.
Ahsoka is no jedi. She started her training as one, sure, but she left the order as a padawan and wanted nothing to do with it.
Then again, is Luke a jedi? He wasn't exactly trained by the order, but he was trained by a grand masterof the order who considered him a jedi?
CoALabaer wrote: Wargamers hate two things: the state of the game and change.
That's not how people frame the definition. A Jedi is someone with force abilities and a Lightsaber.
The wider public doesn't care if they've been trained at the Jedi Temple or have officially been knighted by a Jedi Master.
additionally, as far has he knows, their ARE no lightsabre wielding force users that are capable of storming a full capital ship with just two people, not anymore. Those two are an outside context problem for him. He probably thought they were tricksters of some sort like the one we see in kenobi, trying to pull a fast one.
To be a man in such times is to be one amongst untold billions. It is to live in the cruelest and most bloody regime imaginable. These are the tales of those times. Forget the power of technology and science, for so much has been forgotten, never to be relearned. Forget the promise of progress and understanding, for in the grim dark future there is only war. There is no peace amongst the stars, only an eternity of carnage and slaughter, and the laughter of thirsting gods.
Coven of XVth 2000pts
The Blades of Ruin 2,000pts Watch Company Rho 1650pts
That's still incredibly dumb though, they know it's likely a ruse and a security threat, they could be transporting explosives (to silence Morgan if it's not a rescue attempt) or temporarily shut down assassin droids onto the ship for all they know. Keeping the ship on high alert and preventing them from getting closer should be the baseline response.
Them denying alleged Jedi entry would have practically no political impact given that the Jedi Order was already dismantled as an organization for decades, with Luke's new Order not even being really founded yet, meaning there's no real clout or risk with "angering" a defunct organization.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2023/09/21 17:23:53
BrianDavion wrote: Agreed, did Sabine make a stupid mistake? Yes.
But frankly in her position I'm not sure what I'd do, chances are good it'd be the same thing
Sure, but the problem seems more on people turning "understandable but foolish" into "it was the right thing to do", which it certainly was not.
Amidst the mists and coldest frosts he thrusts his fists against the posts and still insists he sees the ghosts.
Grimskul wrote: That's still incredibly dumb though, they know it's likely a ruse and a security threat, they could be transporting explosives (to silence Morgan if it's not a rescue attempt) or temporarily shut down assassin droids onto the ship for all they know. Keeping the ship on high alert and preventing them from getting closer should be the baseline response.
fair enough. and they should have routed them to a less busy hanger, potentially brought more security, etc. Im not saying they were smart, the captain WAS overconfident, just that they weren't expecting the to face actual jedi.
then again, it seems to be a feature of capital ship commanders that they are overconfident in the face of "minor" threats that then repeatedly screw them.
To be a man in such times is to be one amongst untold billions. It is to live in the cruelest and most bloody regime imaginable. These are the tales of those times. Forget the power of technology and science, for so much has been forgotten, never to be relearned. Forget the promise of progress and understanding, for in the grim dark future there is only war. There is no peace amongst the stars, only an eternity of carnage and slaughter, and the laughter of thirsting gods.
Coven of XVth 2000pts
The Blades of Ruin 2,000pts Watch Company Rho 1650pts
Chopper could sound Mediterranean if you pronounce the Ch like in “Chanukah”. But then it would sound like Khapper, which…how old was Ezra when he joined the Rebellion? Oh dear.
Alright then. What should he have done if he were to handle the situation sensibly? Let's hear it.
Deny them entry onto his ship. Once they move to board without permission, he knows they are malcontents and can act accordingly.
If they make a move. If they don't? Now you have a ship with friendly identification sitting around that you expect to be crewed by Imperials. If it's a boarding party, you made the right call. If it's a scout for a fleet to strike during the prisoner transfer, you may have invited disaster. And through all of that, you have absolutely no idea who is sitting off your bow.
That's not a tolerable situation for any security forces. Cop goes "nope, not gonna deal with it"? That's not going to fly.
Alright then. What should he have done if he were to handle the situation sensibly? Let's hear it.
Deny them entry onto his ship. Once they move to board without permission, he knows they are malcontents and can act accordingly.
If they make a move. If they don't? Now you have a ship with friendly identification sitting around that you expect to be crewed by Imperials. If it's a boarding party, you made the right call. If it's a scout for a fleet to strike during the prisoner transfer, you may have invited disaster. And through all of that, you have absolutely no idea who is sitting off your bow.
That's not a tolerable situation for any security forces. Cop goes "nope, not gonna deal with it"? That's not going to fly.
He's not a 'cop.' He's a captain of a prison transport, moving what we're told is a high security prisoner.
He flags the suspect ship as a security threat and gets on with his day, or shoots them out of the sky for trying this crap.
xerxeskingofking wrote: I meant on the "yoda technically correct" part. I must have missed or mis-heard that line, when did he say that? Im guessing this most recent episode but i must have missed it.
People get very very upset at the idea of there being other force users in the galaxy because Yoda said "when I'm gone the last of the Jedi you will be". Now we have a new way to classify "Jedi but not really at the instant Yoda said that" for people that demand that statement be infallible. Giving us an official term for fake Jedi gives the fanbase a label they can apply to characters like Ezra or the unknighted Cal.
Baylan says it while he and Shin are investigating the bandit attack. She asks if Sabine can really find this Jedi and Baylan dismisses Ezra as a Bokken Jedi because he was trained by a Padawan rather than a Knight or Master.
Alright then. What should he have done if he were to handle the situation sensibly? Let's hear it.
Deny them entry onto his ship. Once they move to board without permission, he knows they are malcontents and can act accordingly.
If they make a move. If they don't? Now you have a ship with friendly identification sitting around that you expect to be crewed by Imperials. If it's a boarding party, you made the right call. If it's a scout for a fleet to strike during the prisoner transfer, you may have invited disaster. And through all of that, you have absolutely no idea who is sitting off your bow.
That's not a tolerable situation for any security forces. Cop goes "nope, not gonna deal with it"? That's not going to fly.
He's not a 'cop.' He's a captain of a prison transport, moving what we're told is a high security prisoner.
He flags the suspect ship as a security threat and gets on with his day, or shoots them out of the sky for trying this crap.
What crap? A ship identified as a friendly hails him and requests docking with the cruiser. Supposedly the New Republic has laws against murdering people on a whim.
He's a captain of a New Republic navy ship that happens to transport a high value prisoner. He very much is a regular part of the Republic's security apparatus with all the duties and restrictions that implies, which includes upholding the law. You can guarantee that he does not have special orders to blow anybody out of the sky unprovoked.
Nehekhara lives! Sort of!
Why is the rum always gone?
xerxeskingofking wrote: I meant on the "yoda technically correct" part. I must have missed or mis-heard that line, when did he say that? Im guessing this most recent episode but i must have missed it.
People get very very upset at the idea of there being other force users in the galaxy because Yoda said "when I'm gone the last of the Jedi you will be". Now we have a new way to classify "Jedi but not really at the instant Yoda said that" for people that demand that statement be infallible. Giving us an official term for fake Jedi gives the fanbase a label they can apply to characters like Ezra or the unknighted Cal.
Baylan says it while he and Shin are investigating the bandit attack. She asks if Sabine can really find this Jedi and Baylan dismisses Ezra as a Bokken Jedi because he was trained by a Padawan rather than a Knight or Master.
see, theirs no need to jump through all those hoops becuase yoda isn't infalible, and he simply didnt know about the various surviving Jedi we, the audience, do, given that hes been hiding in exile for like 20 years.
but i guess fandoms be fandumb sometimes.
i'd interpret that remark by baylan has him just being elitist and dismissive of Erza and Ahsoka as "not real jedi", given he is, as i understand the current canon, the sole remaining person who was a fully ordained Jedi Knight.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2023/09/21 18:56:37
To be a man in such times is to be one amongst untold billions. It is to live in the cruelest and most bloody regime imaginable. These are the tales of those times. Forget the power of technology and science, for so much has been forgotten, never to be relearned. Forget the promise of progress and understanding, for in the grim dark future there is only war. There is no peace amongst the stars, only an eternity of carnage and slaughter, and the laughter of thirsting gods.
Coven of XVth 2000pts
The Blades of Ruin 2,000pts Watch Company Rho 1650pts
Alright then. What should he have done if he were to handle the situation sensibly? Let's hear it.
Deny them entry onto his ship. Once they move to board without permission, he knows they are malcontents and can act accordingly.
If they make a move. If they don't? Now you have a ship with friendly identification sitting around that you expect to be crewed by Imperials. If it's a boarding party, you made the right call. If it's a scout for a fleet to strike during the prisoner transfer, you may have invited disaster. And through all of that, you have absolutely no idea who is sitting off your bow.
That's not a tolerable situation for any security forces. Cop goes "nope, not gonna deal with it"? That's not going to fly.
He's not a 'cop.' He's a captain of a prison transport, moving what we're told is a high security prisoner.
He flags the suspect ship as a security threat and gets on with his day, or shoots them out of the sky for trying this crap.
What crap? A ship identified as a friendly hails him and requests docking with the cruiser. Supposedly the New Republic has laws against murdering people on a whim.
He's a captain of a New Republic navy ship that happens to transport a high value prisoner. He very much is a regular part of the Republic's security apparatus with all the duties and restrictions that implies, which includes upholding the law. You can guarantee that he does not have special orders to blow anybody out of the sky unprovoked.
Come on now. Nothing hauling a prisoner, let alone a high security prisoner, is going to pick up the equivalent of hitchhikers, strays or visitors. That's just utterly dumb.
Military ships don't just invite strangers on board either.
And that's without even pointing out that he thinks they're Imperial, and they're transporting an Imperial collaborator (or ranking Imperial Somebody). There is no scenario where 'yeah, sure' is an acceptable thing.
They have no reason to come on board, the captain has no reason to let them on board, and all they've done is signal that they're lying about who they are (because as far as anyone knows, they literally can't be who they claim).
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2023/09/21 19:14:14
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