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To recap, given I dug this rabbit hole, at least on this occasion?
I’m pushing back against hyperbole. That weird Internet thing where a film someone didn’t enjoy, or found underwhelming, is reported as being Awful Bad Poor Drivel etc. and not simply….disappointing.
And that’s because I find it intensely irritating. I genuinely don’t particularly care if someone didn’t enjoy a movie I enjoyed. We all have our tastes and preferences after all. But I do object to misrepresentation, and has happened on Dakka? Folks criticising a piece of media they’ve not watched, based purely on comments from others. Especially when their comments are really really obviously coming from someone who didn’t watch what they’ve decided is crap.
Example?
Cats.
I saw the televised version of the stage musical many many years ago, and I found it bloody awful. I’ve not watched the film because of that initial experience, and the fact it involved two of my least favourite humans. Here’s a hint. One of them is James Corden. The other is Rebel Wilson.
But other than freely and happily advising I have absolutely no interest or intent on ever watching it? I’m not gonna slag the film off. Despite its Bloody Awful Reputation.
The sequels of Star Wars? They’re not great. Some may not even find them adequate. And that of course is absolutely nothing for me to moan about. Provided you’ve actually seen them. And you’re honest in your criticism. And for heaven’s sake don’t call anyone who enjoyed them silly names or insult them.
I’m happy to have discussions and even debates about their relative merits. But such things kind of need everyone to engage honestly, and be open to being persuaded by the other.
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BobtheInquisitor wrote: What you were posting was a pretty big misrepresentation of other people’s criticisms. Your response now sounds bizarrely off, like you don’t actually understand why people find bad movies bad.
Who's criticisms are we talking about here? I was replying to a reply about my comment about how the internet tends to amplify negativity. It had nothing to do with whatever people don't like about the latest era of Star Wars outside of a general "the internet makes things harder to enjoy without criticism than when we were kids".
I have not seen any of the new series as I do not have Disney+
These are my subjective opinions.
I watched Episode 7 - it was a poor remake of the first Star Wars film - it was ok entertainment - but much less than the original - note that I consider the first Star Wars as no more than a good entertaining film = nothing super special but good.
I watched Episode 8 - it was dull, nonsensical, awfully written gakshow that I regret having wasted several hours of my life sitting through - the characters were laughably bad, the plot (and thats a generous phrase) was complete nonsense from start to end, with not even any internal logic holding up to causual scrutiny. The worst thing was that it was for much of the run time - simply tedious - a film that turns a space chase into some of the most boring, wasted time I have ever seen. Because so often nothing interesting happened on screen you could sit there and consider just how stupid the story and what was happening was. If you are going to make a dumb film - at least make some of it entertaining.
I did not watch Episode 9 and have no real interest in doing so.
I AM A MARINE PLAYER
"Unimaginably ancient xenos artefact somewhere on the planet, hive fleet poised above our heads, hidden 'stealer broods making an early start....and now a bloody Chaos cult crawling out of the woodwork just in case we were bored. Welcome to my world, Ciaphas."
Inquisitor Amberley Vail, Ordo Xenos
"I will admit that some Primachs like Russ or Horus could have a chance against an unarmed 12 year old novice but, a full Battle Sister??!! One to one? In close combat? Perhaps three Primarchs fighting together... but just one Primarch?" da001
I’m happy to have discussions and even debates about their relative merits. But such things kind of need everyone to engage honestly, and be open to being persuaded by the other.
This is hilarious coming from someone who ascribed the words 'Internet weirdos' to people who think Rey is terribly written. If you want to argue in good faith then lead by example.
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: Why not try not quote mining, and reading the whole of the thing, not just the bit you felt might provoke a reaction?
You mean the part about Cats? Or maybe you mean the part where you assume people who don't agree with you haven't actually watched the things you like?
Are you saying I haven’t seen Ahsoka or the Sequels? I’m confused what your last bit is about.
Ahsoka is a pretty good Star Wars show with one (well, more if you count the Hera subplot) really insufferable character. If the villains weren’t compelling, if the ostensible main character and her supporting droid weren’t so enjoyable, then I wouldn’t be complaining about Sabine since I wouldn’t be watching.
The Sequels I’ve seen more than once, except for ROS. You’d have to pay me to watch that one again.
I’ve watched every Live Action Star Wars movie and series, excepting a few episodes of Kenobi, which again you should pay me if you want me to watch every one.
I’ve tried to watch TCW. My son really wanted to get into it. We got a season and a half into it, and they are a no-go. We can’t get into the cartoons any more than we could get into the new EU novels, and any Live Action media that expects homework deserves to be mocked for being poorly written or conceived. It’s great that you like the cartoons, but they are like anime to the rest of us, and you would (or at least should) never tell people that anime and live action movies are the same experience.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2023/10/03 03:29:55
BobtheInquisitor wrote: His meaning was clear: that’s the information the movie itself gives you. Watching the film, he might not know what a T-16 is but he does hear Luke say he’s not a bad pilot himself and the X-Wings are not too different from T-16s, and he bulls-eyes wamprats.
I think it was also pretty obvious that I was talking about me, as a 7 year old at the time (summer of '77), not knowing what a T-16 looked like.
i mean, all you have to do is read about 3 sentences further down in what I wrote.
I’m all caught up. I had been waiting to let the episodes pile up before I dove in.
My tldr, spoilered to prevent semi wall of text review :
Spoiler:
Let me say it up front, its a pretty mediocre product. But for my money, its the 3rd best Disney+ Star Wars season. (Mando1, Andor, Ahsoka, Mando 2, Mando 3, Kenobi, Boba).
Stream of thought, no particular order :
-Episode run times. 56, 44, 36 (the feth?) 40, 51, 48, 45. My first thought right out of the gate, that kind of inconsistency doesn’t bode well for a coherent well paced story. Had I been waiting a week after the 2 episode premiere and been given a roughly 30 minute 3rd episode, I’d have been pissed.
-I did not watch the cartoons, nor will I. But I do think this would’ve been better received had it been a cartoon like its predecessors.
-They should not have named this show Ahsoka. Something more that stokes the imagination or evokes the severity of Thrawns threat would have been better served.
-Its got some cool visuals, gotta give them that.
-Music seemed generic and stirred no reaction.
-Acting seems on par with a sci-fi channel movie , aside from Baylan, who is the breakout character of this show. RIP Titus Pullo. All else seem wooden or poorly written and directed. Mary E Winstead was amazing in her season of Fargo, but is hampered here by corny dialogue.
-Thrawn doesn’t impress. As someone who read the Heir to the Empire trilogy back in the day, I expected much more. The dialogue has him contradicting himself at times.
-Marrok was lol. Saw quite a few fan sites and channels that were hyping up and theorizing who that guy was and he ended up just being a cartoon fart in a body suit.
-Sabine is a grown ass adult petulent child. Also, getting impaled by a lightsaber and surviving with no ill effects immediately set the tone that there will be no hard consequences.
-Speaking of consequences, no ones going to say anything about the two X-Wing pilots killed in the course of Hera’s barratry?
-Huyang seems like he’d be an excellent resource for someone who was rebuilding the Jedi Order, if there is anyone out there doing such a thing at this point in time.
-Kind of glad Hayden got some more work I guess, but that episode was a plate full of memberberries, key jangling and poor nonsensical dialogue.
-Ezra : ‘I’m not using the lightsaber, the force is my weapon’. Few seconds later, picks up a blaster and shoots a dude.
-Night Troopers. A relabel and rebrand of the Stormtrooper we know and love. Some battle damage, gold pieces and red fabric, same old results.
-The witches can track a Jedi, but didn’t bother to do that the entire time they were stuck on the planet to get Ezra?
-Googled “Ahsoka Ratings”, as I do after finishing a show to compare how I liked it vs. the world, and 3.1 of 5 audience score popped up. I’d put it at 2.5 myself.
I’ll echo what I believe HBMC said pages ago. Paraphrasing, as I can’t be bothered to go back to find it and quote : ‘There is now more bad Star Wars than there is good Star Wars”. But at least this is better then some of the worst offerings.
Mediocre, uneven and sometimes strangely slow show, with a few bright spots.
Here’s a hot take to close this out : Disney’s handling of the Star Wars IP after acquiring it for $4 Billion, has been just as bad as Warner Bros handling of the DC superhero movie properties. Maybe not as financially disastrous(yet), but the brand feels badly damaged and I don’t think Disney will course correct.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2023/10/03 06:08:02
"Sometimes the only victory possible is to keep your opponent from winning." - The Emperor, from The Outcast Dead.
"Tell your gods we are coming for them, and that their realms will burn as ours did." -Thostos Bladestorm
Naming the show something else would have been interesting - but I guess 'Thrawn' runs the problem of not enough screen time for villain and also only appealing to a small subset of customers
The_Real_Chris wrote: Naming the show something else would have been interesting - but I guess 'Thrawn' runs the problem of not enough screen time for villain and also only appealing to a small subset of customers
That's also not just a criticism of Ahsoka, but of all the single name D+ shows, with Book of Boba Fett being the outlier (but also making no sense). All the rest with just 1 name don't really work for me. The movie titles evoke a visual & a narrative just by being what they are. If these D+ shows were deep character studies/deconstruction (see 2017's Logan), it'd work.
Another example, I believe "Solo" was Disney's worst performing Star Wars movie, and I think a different name could've helped it, something more fanciful, pulpy and to keep it in line with the main Star Wars movies. Tacking on "A Star Wars Tale" just made it cumbersome. It also came out at a bad time for the franchise, to be fair.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2023/10/03 17:20:43
"Sometimes the only victory possible is to keep your opponent from winning." - The Emperor, from The Outcast Dead.
"Tell your gods we are coming for them, and that their realms will burn as ours did." -Thostos Bladestorm
Agreed with the point about "Solo: A Star Wars Tale". It really was a fantastic movie IMO, deserved better box office than it got and sequel IMO. Don't know if calling it "12 Parsecs To Kessel" or whatever would have necessarily changed its fortunes, but its certainly a thought.
CoALabaer wrote: Wargamers hate two things: the state of the game and change.
chaos0xomega wrote: Agreed with the point about "Solo: A Star Wars Tale". It really was a fantastic movie IMO, deserved better box office than it got and sequel IMO. Don't know if calling it "12 Parsecs To Kessel" or whatever would have necessarily changed its fortunes, but its certainly a thought.
I don't think in the post-Last Jedi climate a name change would have made an appreciable difference. Solo's performance or lack thereof isn't generally attributed to the quality of the actual movie, as far as I've seen.
Nehekhara lives! Sort of!
Why is the rum always gone?
As a film, I’d say there’s nothing terribly wrong with it. I mean, it’s not gonna win any awards for acting, and it didn’t revolutionise and revive a genre. But what’s there is fun at the end of the day. I’d say its worst crime is being pretty disposable, compared to Rogue One where the content genuinely added to the whole of the thing, whilst not being something you need to see to understand what follows.
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I enjoyed Solo as an adventure romp - as I did the second half of Rogue One - despite the awful first half of R1
I AM A MARINE PLAYER
"Unimaginably ancient xenos artefact somewhere on the planet, hive fleet poised above our heads, hidden 'stealer broods making an early start....and now a bloody Chaos cult crawling out of the woodwork just in case we were bored. Welcome to my world, Ciaphas."
Inquisitor Amberley Vail, Ordo Xenos
"I will admit that some Primachs like Russ or Horus could have a chance against an unarmed 12 year old novice but, a full Battle Sister??!! One to one? In close combat? Perhaps three Primarchs fighting together... but just one Primarch?" da001
Solo is a lot better than it gets credit for but its also just not great. It's biggest problem is just that Star Wars street effect of taking a character's entire life and condensing it into one eventful weekend. It's just neither a particularly bad, nor particularly good film, which is often worse than either.
LunarSol wrote: Solo is a lot better than it gets credit for but its also just not great. It's biggest problem is just that Star Wars street effect of taking a character's entire life and condensing it into one eventful weekend. It's just neither a particularly bad, nor particularly good film, which is often worse than either.
Also falls into the trap of trying to explain every single thing about the character. It is so odd. Not bothering with that, playing it more for sly fun, would have been a better pulpy fun film.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Mr Morden wrote: I enjoyed Solo as an adventure romp - as I did the second half of Rogue One - despite the awful first half of R1
It is impressive just how little people who like the film remember the first half. I rewatched it a while back with someone who loved it and I realised that good gods it ain't as great as I remember. Something which doesn't need a second viewing...
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2023/10/03 18:32:26
Mr Morden wrote: I enjoyed Solo as an adventure romp - as I did the second half of Rogue One - despite the awful first half of R1
It is impressive just how little people who like the film remember the first half. I rewatched it a while back with someone who loved it and I realised that good gods it ain't as great as I remember. Something which doesn't need a second viewing...
Act 3 is great, but the build up to it is pretty haphazard. There's a ton of characters who's arcs are kind of all over rather than building to anything particularly satisfying. Even in act 3, the main cast's role isn't nearly as memorable as the space battle that isn't really directly connected to the main cast in a meaningful way. It's just a super well done lead in to ANH.
The discussion of Solo and the Sequels reminded me of these parody videos, Star Wars Reimagined, by Auralnauts. What if the original trilogy were made today?
There are also videos for the first Star Wars and for Return of the Jedi. Return of the Jedi Reimagined is glorious.
As I said previously, would’ve been better as a cartoon and it was a firm 2.5/5 stars.
Post viewing stream of thought:
-Zombie Stormtroopers are as good a shot as live stormtroopers oddly enough.
-Elsbeth v. Tano 2 : Fisticuffs in the Fortress was lame. Had Elsbeth been fighting Ezra and/or Sabine, and kicking their ass until they learned to work together or something, it would have been more tense. We already saw this fight in Mando, minus the fatality.
-Why the feth would you be wearing the stormtrooper helmet when landing on a Republic ship? I want the writers to go back on strike.
-Gratuitous Lord of the Rings visual. Made me wish I had spent these hours watching that superior product.
-Wonder who will replace Ray Stevenson.
-Force ghost of Anakin was silly and uh… forced. I guess that is Hayden’s fate now, to be de-aged and trotted out like El Cid to rally the fan base in their time of need.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2023/10/04 04:17:53
"Sometimes the only victory possible is to keep your opponent from winning." - The Emperor, from The Outcast Dead.
"Tell your gods we are coming for them, and that their realms will burn as ours did." -Thostos Bladestorm
Am I to understand that actually nothing happened this season? I've followed the synopsis and it looks like nothing really happened other than Ezra and Thrawn being 'back'. Baylon and Shin may as well have not existed? Nothing about them is revealed?
The only way we can ever solve anything is to look in the mirror and find no enemy
Funnily enough, I feel like the first 3 episodes didn’t even need to happen, now that I think about it.
trexmeyer wrote: I Am I to understand that actually nothing happened this season? I've followed the synopsis and it looks like nothing really happened other than Ezra and Thrawn being 'back'.
Ezra and Thrawn switched places with Sabine + Ahsoka, essentially. They are stranded in a galaxy far, far away from the other galaxy thats far, far away.
trexmeyer wrote: I Baylon and Shin may as well have not existed? Nothing about them is revealed?
Baylon goes in search of some power thats calling to him, last seen standing on a repurposed LotR set. Shin seems to take control of a group of raiders by hoisting her lightsaber in the air.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2023/10/04 04:08:49
"Sometimes the only victory possible is to keep your opponent from winning." - The Emperor, from The Outcast Dead.
"Tell your gods we are coming for them, and that their realms will burn as ours did." -Thostos Bladestorm
I'm being facetious when I say 'nothing happened'.
I'm just amazed that they spent 8 episodes to get to this finale.
It feels like whoever is in charge is intentionally dragging things out as long as possible. The third season of the Mandalorian could have been cut in half and nothing of value would have been lost.
The only way we can ever solve anything is to look in the mirror and find no enemy
As I said previously, would’ve been better as a cartoon and it was a firm 2.5/5 stars.
Post viewing stream of thought:
-Zombie Stormtroopers are as good a shot as live stormtroopers oddly enough.
-Elsbeth v. Tano 2 : Fisticuffs in the Fortress was lame. Had Elsbeth been fighting Ezra and/or Sabine, and kicking their ass until they learned to work together or something, it would have been more tense. We already saw this fight in Mando, minus the fatality.
-Why the feth would you be wearing the stormtrooper helmet when landing on a Republic ship? I want the writers to go back on strike.
-Gratuitous Lord of the Rings visual. Made me wish I had spent these hours watching that superior product.
-Wonder who will replace Ray Stevenson.
-Force ghost of Anakin was silly and uh… forced. I guess that is Hayden’s fate now, to be de-aged and trotted out like El Cid to rally the fan base in their time of need.
Have an exalt, this post spoke to my soul. I'd give it 2.5 as well.
In before the damage control fanboy crew swoop in and decry you all as haters that lack literary media taste.
With the diminishing returns for a lot of the SW live action shows and the quality being mediocre at best, I'm curious how Disney thinks doing a Rey focused movie series is worth moving towards when it sounds like just doubling down on all the things people don't like about the Disney approach to the franchise.
Undead Stormtroopers were fun. And a nice metaphor for Thrawn’s coming role in trying to resurrect The Empire.
Shin and Baylon? I am wondering if Shin’s ending was rejigged due to Ray Stevenson passing away. But Baylon? He’s seeking The Ones, the seemingly living emodiments of The Force we met in Clone Wars, and to whom Ahsoka seems mystically tied. Or, he’s seeking another entryway to the World Beyond Worlds, to attempt some kind of time tampering.
I’ve really liked the visual language of Thrawn’s forces. Tattered, but repaired. Some seemingly reanimated corpses, some presumably still alive. A melding of Imperial and Nightsister aesthetic, which I guess we’re going to see more of in the upcoming series.
Ezra coming aboard the Republic ship was a nice reflection of the show’s opening scenes, though I do agree there wasn’t a need for Ezra to be wearing his helmet.
Satisfying enough “until next time” finale. The combat I really enjoyed, with our three heroes working well together and everything being nicely choreographed.
And interested to see now Skeleton Crew slots into all of this.
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Duel was good. Don’t care if it’s a pairing we’ve seen before, they were in a different environment with different weapons.
Thrawn mostly made the smart choices for the situations he was presented.
Father, Son… where’s Daughter?
I will agree keeping the helmet on, much less the armor, was stupid. Disappointed they didn’t even use it to at least reference his collection.
Do we think season two involves Thrawn at all, or will it be entirely in Narnia? It would legit be interesting if Ahsoka and Thrawn never do actually meet.
I like the moments where just a mere flicker of doubt crossed Thrawn’s face, before you could see him mentally calculating possible plans and solutions. It’s a really nice bit of characterisation, and makes him feel all the more threatening in my opinion.
Because it’s absolutely not panic, just a level headed acceptance of changing parameters, and how one might best turn it around.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Also, I really liked the speed of the Star Destroyer. I think I was expecting it to be lumbering, but…nope. Really quite speedy, at least in a straight line.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2023/10/04 09:42:51
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