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Yup

I also think the entire "different galaxy" thing was a terribly wasted concept. It could have been used to set up a truly alien environment but instead it's just protein based (Ezra ate the organic nutrients from that planet for 10 years, I presume) regular earth-like life with humanoids and cultures copying established patterns from earth history.

Very, very lazy, uncreative writing. S-F has been doing so much better than that for decades.

I dunno if you’ve noticed. But Star Wars doesn’t and has never really done non-earth like planets.

Still, they could have tried it here, so that the entire "wholly different galaxy" thing feels at least a bit as the name suggests.

Just out of curiosity because I'm not going to watch that video, what exactly did they mean by "Pandering"?

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
I dunno if you’ve noticed. But Star Wars doesn’t and has never really done non-earth like planets.

Indeed. Budget is also a big consideration to take into account. Just because it's Disney, doesn't mean the money is infinite.
Also, just my two pennies, but I prefer a show to have on-location shooting. CG is cool but when you can do it in real life just do that.

Except “they arrived and all died due to the planets being inimical to life” doesn’t make for a terribly interesting story.

To be fair a LOT of sci-fi use Earth-Like planets.

Often with topographies that are very similar due to trying to get them within the same range of certain studios to avoid having to spend more.

It costs a lot more to make totally alien worlds and either a massive set or a lot of greenscreen. Plus as noted it can also mean that everyone is wearing helmets or facemasks because of the air and most studios try their best to avoid that. Same reason lots of knights and kings are often seen without proper face protective covers in armour. They are paying big money for the actor and face, they don't want it 90% covered up for the whole battle or sequence

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Except “they arrived and all died due to the planets being inimical to life” doesn’t make for a terribly interesting story.

It wouldn't even come to that. If the planet isn't habitable, the Star Destroyer places a beacon at the end of the migration route that directs the rescue party to the habitable planet one star system over where the Imperials await rescue instead.

The only thing that achieves is giving people who already have issues with the show's pacing another pointless stop on the way to the real action.

Outside of Star Wars, there's an impressive number of alien planets that look like abandoned quarries...


Except in early Star Trek, where the alien-ness of the planet can usually be gauged by the amount of glitter embedded in the rocks.

I was thinking less of the planet itself - barren but habitable makes sense for the plot - but rather the completely generic aliens and their cultures, thought processes and motivations.

Cultures of our own species on our single planet are more varied and difficult to comprehend for people outside of them (not to mention, communicate with) than these in a completely different GALAXY to the one characters come from...

Cyel wrote:
I was thinking less of the planet itself - barren but habitable makes sense for the plot - but rather the completely generic aliens and their cultures, thought processes and motivations.

Yeah, it would be cool but the story is about the return of Thrawn.
An entire episode dedicated to learning about an alien culture they can't really talk to doesn't serve the wider narrative.

Cultures of our own species on our single planet are more varied and difficult to comprehend for people outside of them (not to mention, communicate with) than these in a completely different GALAXY to the one characters come from...

I don't agree with that point. People choose not to learn about other cultures or are manipulated into being insular.
It's also entirely irrelevant because of the "aliens" we see, only one person is able to properly communicate with the crab-folk, and the bandits just get beat up/killed.

The Night Sisters being there isn't a big deal because they were always this ancient race of sorceresses and it's not outlandish for them to be from another galaxy.
Also Claudia Black is the one in charge so any criticism of the Night Sisters is therefore moot. Sorry I don't make the rules,

Then it is as I said - an opportunity wasted. A promise of something extraordinary and exotic (a wholly different galaxy!) wasted on something generic, boring and mundane.

Star Wars is no three body problem. There was no way they would go with something more "exotic" because that would've confused people.

Cyel wrote:
Then it is as I said - an opportunity wasted. A promise of something extraordinary and exotic (a wholly different galaxy!) wasted on something generic, boring and mundane.

They basically needed a nonsense reason for why Thrawn and Ezra couldn't come back (beyond, 'crashed in the Unknown Regions with no working hyperdrive or communications,' because that was 'too simple') and for Morgan to have... some sort of point to having a complicated plot to get there.

Basically they over-wrote the premise and had to pile on extra layers to justify what they came up with, which essentially became Gilligan's Island.

The SW writers do need to get over this thing about ancient maps leading to recent crash events, though. It was dumb enough the first time.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Except “they arrived and all died due to the planets being inimical to life” doesn’t make for a terribly interesting story.

More interesting than Book of Boba Fett.


But yeah, I would have preferred they either went totally alien or leaned into alternate GFFA, with Dathomir witches and Zeffo(?) as the recurring force dynasties, with clones as the droids and droids as the clones, where hamburgers eat people, and Dexter Jettster has a cool name.

Since Baylon and Shin are Skoll and Hati AND Baylan is clearly looking for the Mortis Gods, can we assume that there is going to be some sort of Force Ragnarok coming?

At the end of Ahsoka and The Mandalorian s3 it looks like all the pieces are being moved into position for something more climactic than what we've seen before, but the thread hasn't been pulled taut just yet. More likely I'm just ascribing better planning than intended.

- Luke is establishing the NJO (which is going to fall in T-15? years)
- Moff Gideon's Remnant is 'defeated', but not The Empire as a whole and now Thrawn is back to take control
- There are three? (has Sabine's sensitivity been confirmed?) Force Users on a planet that somehow has ties to The Mortis Gods and one has a vested interest in them
- The Mandalorians are recovering, albeit slowly, but their numbers aren't wholly insignificant for the scale we've seen in the D+ series

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
I dunno if you’ve noticed. But Star Wars doesn’t and has never really done non-earth like planets.

Then don't go to another galaxy. If your script just [ext]. Forest. Day for the location but it's in another galaxy, why are you bothering to make it another galaxy?

It'd be like spending time talking about the wild and whacky new cultures in a new galaxy and you go there and it's just the same culture. Reminds me of an early season Stargate episode where they go to great pains to talk about some differences in language, but then have everyone speak regular normal English. Yes, that was a reality of making a television show - everyone had to speak English for expediencies' sake - but then don't make a big deal in your script about language and differences when there aren't really any.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Reminds me of an early season Stargate episode where they go to great pains to talk about some differences in language, but then have everyone speak regular normal English. Yes, that was a reality of making a television show - everyone had to speak English for expediencies' sake - but then don't make a big deal in your script about language and differences when there aren't really any.

I think the bigger mistake was in the later seasons making a big deal about Daniel being able to speak Goa’uld; if they hadn’t done that they could have hand waved it away as “after the first few missions we taught all of the SG teams to speak Goa’uld, as we realised 90% of the planets we go to were settled with humans transplanted by them and it’s a local language.”

Star Wars Fans - Oh not Tatooine again! Why can’t we have some new planets shown on screen

Star Wars - OK, here’s Exegol, Nevarro and several others. In fact, here’s a whole other Galaxy!

Star War Fans - How dare you!

That argument may work if it were in any way related to what's being said.

I don't think "truly alien" is a good fit for what the show tried to achieve with the other galaxy. Functionally it was a good place to strand Thrawn and Ezra because we've known from as early as Empire Strikes Back that you can't realistically strand anyone in the known galaxy for any amount of time. Both hyperspace travel and communication are far too convenient for that. The ease of repairing junk to fully functional gadgets, too. A place to put someone on ice is pretty much all there is to the other galaxy.

If they hadn't gone with Night Sisters, the Mortis Gods and the World Between Worlds as the other story threads, sure they could have explored a planet in a different galaxy that feels noticeably different to worlds in the core galaxy. But they chose to focus on elements of Force mysticism relevant to Ahsoka and Ezra over space exploration. Makes sense to me. I'd find the latter a lot more compelling if it was done by a conventional New Republic expedition than a bunch of laser sword wielding maniacs on a mission. It's probably best not to overload a show with too many concepts. Book of Boba and Mando season three suffered from that. By comparison, Ahsoka is pleasantly focused and only throws in Hera's parts as something almost completely detached from the main quest.

I think Hera’s bits, with those from Mando S3 about Dr Pershing are serving a purpose. Showing that the New Republic isn’t all happy clappy unified super best friends.

That it’s still bogged down in protocol, requisitions, misplaced good faith, and fairly petty politicking.

It’s doing the job of explaining and justifying The Resistance that is to come. Leia going paramilitary, because too few are taking the threats seriously.

I really liked C-3PO’s cameo. It’s was a fun scene, and a great way to make Leia’s presence and clout felt, without needing a personal appearance.

I also appreciated Senator Wotsit’s motivations being left undetermined. We the audience can see his influence is benefitting Thrawn et all, but whether that’s him acting as a cats paw, or he genuinely wants to maintain the peace so hard won remains to be seen. He could be actively malevolent. He could be a true believer in his words. He could just be a short sighted idiot.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
I dunno if you’ve noticed. But Star Wars doesn’t and has never really done non-earth like planets.

Then don't go to another galaxy. If your script just [ext]. Forest. Day for the location but it's in another galaxy, why are you bothering to make it another galaxy?

It'd be like spending time talking about the wild and whacky new cultures in a new galaxy and you go there and it's just the same culture. Reminds me of an early season Stargate episode where they go to great pains to talk about some differences in language, but then have everyone speak regular normal English. Yes, that was a reality of making a television show - everyone had to speak English for expediencies' sake - but then don't make a big deal in your script about language and differences when there aren't really any.

As I recall Stargate did ok with the languages part in early seasons; but at some point they got lazy/changed focus and everyone wound up speaking english with the odd bit of alien here and there, but mostly only when they were conversing with themselves. It did indeed stand out to me as a problem. I think in some ways it was likely just an expedience element of trying to change stories without the first part always being "and here's 20mins of language barrier issues - again". It does seem very odd and it does indeed devalue Daniel on the team because he's the translator who - doesn't really have to translate any more.


Of course one could take the angle that its like a written book and they did teach the whole team and just converse in english for the ease of the viewing audience

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
I think Hera’s bits, with those from Mando S3 about Dr Pershing are serving a purpose. Showing that the New Republic isn’t all happy clappy unified super best friends.

That it’s still bogged down in protocol, requisitions, misplaced good faith, and fairly petty politicking.

It’s doing the job of explaining and justifying The Resistance that is to come. Leia going paramilitary, because too few are taking the threats seriously.

I really liked C-3PO’s cameo. It’s was a fun scene, and a great way to make Leia’s presence and clout felt, without needing a personal appearance.

I also appreciated Senator Wotsit’s motivations being left undetermined. We the audience can see his influence is benefitting Thrawn et all, but whether that’s him acting as a cats paw, or he genuinely wants to maintain the peace so hard won remains to be seen. He could be actively malevolent. He could be a true believer in his words. He could just be a short sighted idiot.

Mind you that I didn't say the New Republic parts don't serve a purpose. Just that they're barely connected to the main quest.

I appreciate seeing the post-Endor state of the galaxy, a solid look at the New Republic included. It's one of the things I wanted most out of the shows we got.

With that said, Mando season three is pretty egregious in that regard. We get a whole episode of dealing with Pershing on far away Coruscant, and all that contributes later on is "job's a good'un, boss, oh by the way, did you know a ton of Mandos are coming your way?" All of that exposition for our viewing pleasure, while cool in isolation, goes into the less important half of a single sentence that's actually relevant to the main plot of the season.

I don't mind having that kind of stuff dumped on me because my interest in the setting is equal to my interest in any particular story, and seeing it contributes to my enjoyment of Star Wars. I'm also pretty used to taking in hacked up information. But purely in terms of storytelling it's actually pretty bad to throw out relevance and pacing for detours that don't lead anywhere in the story that is being told. The exposition we're treated to would be better left for its own show or an anthology like Tales of the Jedi.

It’s sort of back-door pilot stuff. Introducing insight into the state of the main Galaxy here and there, so the Big Finale has a proper background, without a show all about the troubles of the New Republic,

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
It’s sort of back-door pilot stuff. Introducing insight into the state of the main Galaxy here and there, so the Big Finale has a proper background, without a show all about the troubles of the New Republic,

Sure. And at the risk of sparking another dumpster fire people just can't resist fueling, we all saw in the sequel trilogy what happens if you don't do that.

However, good reason does not automatically lead to good execution. You have to be mindful of how you do things, not just why.

For example Leia overruling the council and letting Hera off the hook for her unsanctioned action which got two pilots killed, but in the sequel trilogy slapping Poe for his unsanctioned action which saved the whole Rebellion...

 Lord Damocles wrote:
For example Leia overruling the council and letting Hera off the hook for her unsanctioned action which got two pilots killed, but in the sequel trilogy slapping Poe for his unsanctioned action which saved the whole Rebellion...

It’s almost as if Poe got a lot of pilots and crew killed.

It’s almost as if a person can mature and shift their opinion over time.

Its almost as if trying to write ad hoc justifications for the crappy setup of the sequels is trying glue feathers back on the chicken after you've killed it.


Making every SW show carry an Idiot Ball for a couple episodes to justify the sequels is a pointless price for these shows to pay. They have enough work to do as it is (and they consistently keep failing to do enough with characters and story elements actually in the current show when they time out to 'set up' whatever meta-nonsense they may or may not have planned).

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
It’s almost as if Poe got a lot of pilots and crew killed.

Yeah but any cost/benefit analysis would accept losing a bunch of, I assume, antique bombers in return for a major cap ship. That is the whole point of carrier aviation - losing small amounts of men and material to cause far greater loses from sinking enemy battleships.

It’s the lives. Yes taking out the Dreadnought denied the First Order a strategic asset. But at significant cost in Resistance lives.

At that point, the plan appeared to be “right, we’ve wrecked Starkiller Base, but now they know where we are. Let’s skedaddle before they get here”. I’m not persuaded Poe’s attack preserved the majority of the fleet.