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casvalremdeikun wrote:Well, hopefully Grey Knights players will be happy. Otherwise they haven't really announced anything that is all that interesting to me. Hopefully they show us the new model that is supposed to be coming out with it.

not really. a point reduction for gk without other changes means only keep on loose but with more models on the field.

techsoldaten wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
Well, hopefully Grey Knights players will be happy. Otherwise they haven't really announced anything that is all that interesting to me. Hopefully they show us the new model that is supposed to be coming out with it.

There's an unholy trinity to Grey Knights complaints: unit cost, special weapons and psychic powers / Strategems. This addresses one of them.

Expect the complaints to continue until we hear more about the other two.

exactly.

but the point drop will allow me to sell GK easily since normomarines are definitely dead after the primarization of Calgar

 Danarc wrote:

casvalremdeikun wrote:Well, hopefully Grey Knights players will be happy. Otherwise they haven't really announced anything that is all that interesting to me. Hopefully they show us the new model that is supposed to be coming out with it.

not really. a point reduction for gk without other changes means only keep on loose but with more models on the field.

techsoldaten wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
Well, hopefully Grey Knights players will be happy. Otherwise they haven't really announced anything that is all that interesting to me. Hopefully they show us the new model that is supposed to be coming out with it.

There's an unholy trinity to Grey Knights complaints: unit cost, special weapons and psychic powers / Strategems. This addresses one of them.

Expect the complaints to continue until we hear more about the other two.

exactly.

but the point drop will allow me to sell GK easily since normomarines are definitely dead after the primarization of Calgar

...You know, I didn't think of it like that.

If Grey Knights remain gak after this CA, lots of people wouldn't know anything besides them just getting buffed. It really might be a good time to ditch the army entirely if things don't pan out...

Right. Wrong word.
I will sell them easier not easily.

 lolman1c wrote:
Hahahahaaaa! Everyone saying above just got their words handed to them when gw makes the head ultramarine into a primaris! Lololololol!

I explained why it is inaccurate to say vanilla marines are dead even when assuming they will be phased out and never get another kit. Can you explain how my words were just handed to me?

Anyways, glad to hear Grey Knights getting some love. I still have a soft spot for them because of my silly Draigo + Paladins army back in the day. Sisters stuff is obviously exciting, and that stratagem is cool.

 fraser1191 wrote:

Spoiler:

Well I didn't know normal marines could become Primaris marines after they were finished.

Edit. I wonder if calgar will have a helmet option this time?

I believe he does and I believe he will be wearing a helmet for me now. Pappa Pimp in da house!


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Eihnlazer wrote:
So calgar is a primaris and gains +1 W, +1 T (gravis armor), and the ability to buff primaris marines now as well?


Looks like he keeps his same gauntlets of ultramar. If they don't spike his points cost too much he might be useable.

Is it confirmed he is getting new rules? Calgar is already W7 with -1 to damage rolls. He is actually amazing already - maybe a tad too pricey but not bad. If he goes to W8 and T5 - Holy crap. The Pimp slapping will be epic. Also - Primaris marines are currently able to be buffed by all space marine HQ's - the only really drawback to being primaris is you can't ride in any transports other than a Repulsor (decent - but too expensive).

[

quote=Xenomancers 766923 10242086 5dd4a6247aedba92486855bb38633d5c.jpg]

 fraser1191 wrote:

Spoiler:

Well I didn't know normal marines could become Primaris marines after they were finished.

Edit. I wonder if calgar will have a helmet option this time?

I believe he does and I believe he will be wearing a helmet for me now. Pappa Pimp in da house!

 Eihnlazer wrote:
So calgar is a primaris and gains +1 W, +1 T (gravis armor), and the ability to buff primaris marines now as well?


Looks like he keeps his same gauntlets of ultramar. If they don't spike his points cost too much he might be useable.

Is it confirmed he is getting new rules? Calgar is already W7 with -1 to damage rolls. He is actually amazing already - maybe a tad too pricey but not bad. If he goes to W8 and T5 - Holy crap. The Pimp slapping will be epic.

Oh sorry - figured being rules related it was relevant.

 Xenomancers wrote:
Oh sorry - figured being rules related it was relevant.

Not really as its not appearing in CA - can you at least spoilet the image - thnx

so since people are getting some face time with ca 2018, I'm hoping to hear what changes are in store for Necrons.

 Grimgold wrote:
so since people are getting some face time with ca 2018, I'm hoping to hear what changes are in store for Necrons.

Points hike for T Vault. Probably a pts hike on Destroyers too just because GW hate us.

IanVanCheese wrote:

 Grimgold wrote:
so since people are getting some face time with ca 2018, I'm hoping to hear what changes are in store for Necrons.

Points hike for T Vault. Probably a pts hike on Destroyers too just because GW hate us.

They don't hate us, we just aren't a priority for them. I'm less interested in points, because you can't discount your way out of bad rules, I'm more interested to see if they changed any weapon profiles, or stratagems.

 Xenomancers wrote:

 fraser1191 wrote:

Spoiler:

Well I didn't know normal marines could become Primaris marines after they were finished.

Edit. I wonder if calgar will have a helmet option this time?

I believe he does and I believe he will be wearing a helmet for me now. Pappa Pimp in da house!


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Eihnlazer wrote:
So calgar is a primaris and gains +1 W, +1 T (gravis armor), and the ability to buff primaris marines now as well?


Looks like he keeps his same gauntlets of ultramar. If they don't spike his points cost too much he might be useable.

Is it confirmed he is getting new rules? Calgar is already W7 with -1 to damage rolls. He is actually amazing already - maybe a tad too pricey but not bad. If he goes to W8 and T5 - Holy crap. The Pimp slapping will be epic. Also - Primaris marines are currently able to be buffed by all space marine HQ's - the only really drawback to being primaris is you can't ride in any transports other than a Repulsor (decent - but too expensive).

He'll likely not gain a wound as I imagine that came from his Terminator armor. Still, T5 is good for an HQ that might get hit by anything S8-9 in melee.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:

 fraser1191 wrote:

Spoiler:

Well I didn't know normal marines could become Primaris marines after they were finished.

Edit. I wonder if calgar will have a helmet option this time?

I believe he does and I believe he will be wearing a helmet for me now. Pappa Pimp in da house!


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Eihnlazer wrote:
So calgar is a primaris and gains +1 W, +1 T (gravis armor), and the ability to buff primaris marines now as well?


Looks like he keeps his same gauntlets of ultramar. If they don't spike his points cost too much he might be useable.

Is it confirmed he is getting new rules? Calgar is already W7 with -1 to damage rolls. He is actually amazing already - maybe a tad too pricey but not bad. If he goes to W8 and T5 - Holy crap. The Pimp slapping will be epic. Also - Primaris marines are currently able to be buffed by all space marine HQ's - the only really drawback to being primaris is you can't ride in any transports other than a Repulsor (decent - but too expensive).

He'll likely not gain a wound as I imagine that came from his Terminator armor. Still, T5 is good for an HQ that might get hit by anything S8-9 in melee.

Rules for Marneus Calgar – and more – can found in Vigilus Defiant, a new campaign book that puts you at the heart of the latest epic conflict:

So best discuss them in that thread neh?

 Grimgold wrote:

IanVanCheese wrote:

 Grimgold wrote:
so since people are getting some face time with ca 2018, I'm hoping to hear what changes are in store for Necrons.

Points hike for T Vault. Probably a pts hike on Destroyers too just because GW hate us.

They don't hate us, we just aren't a priority for them. I'm less interested in points, because you can't discount your way out of bad rules, I'm more interested to see if they changed any weapon profiles, or stratagems.

I heard they are going to add a 3cp stratagem that lets you bring back a unit that has been wiped out, but only once per game and it shuts off RP for that unit.









(JK I made that up, but it sounded true didn't it? )

 NinthMusketeer wrote:

I heard they are going to add a 3cp stratagem that lets you bring back a unit that has been wiped out, but only once per game and it shuts off RP for that unit.
...
(JK I made that up, but it sounded true didn't it? )

Meh, that's not what we need, what we need is reliable anti-vehicle ability on durable platforms. If the tesla destructor wasn't a complete waste of ink (eg had an ap value and did more than 1 damage a shot) we'd have some tools to take on the current meta, it wouldn't make us a top army but certainly less of a dumpster fire. Too many necron players got hooked on the idea of us being an unkillable army in 7th ed, but that was an aberration, and even at the time most of us necron players knew it was kind of bunk and bad for the game. Instead of trying to relive past glories, they need to make the necron tool set relevant in 8th ed, something which GW has failed at in a spectacular fashion. The fact no one is talking about rules changes for necrons despite some people having had hands on time with CA 2018, pretty much shows GW ignored us again, tossed a token points reduction, and kicked the can down the road. The most frustrating part is GW doesn't seem to understand how they screwed up, and being outside of the current narrative focus, won't take the time to understand the problem much less fix it.

The new Sisters stratagem seems oddly niche, doesn't it? You have to build your squads in a very specific and kinda counter-intuitive way, and as a reward you get the same benefit as the far more flexible Veterans of the Long War. I get what they were going for but I think you'd need more incentive to include an anti-infantry and anti-vehicle special weapon in the same unit.

 Grimgold wrote:

 NinthMusketeer wrote:

I heard they are going to add a 3cp stratagem that lets you bring back a unit that has been wiped out, but only once per game and it shuts off RP for that unit.
...
(JK I made that up, but it sounded true didn't it? )

Meh, that's not what we need, what we need is reliable anti-vehicle ability on durable platforms. If the tesla destructor wasn't a complete waste of ink (eg had an ap value and did more than 1 damage a shot) we'd have some tools to take on the current meta, it wouldn't make us a top army but certainly less of a dumpster fire. Too many necron players got hooked on the idea of us being an unkillable army in 7th ed, but that was an aberration, and even at the time most of us necron players knew it was kind of bunk and bad for the game. Instead of trying to relive past glories, they need to make the necron tool set relevant in 8th ed, something which GW has failed at in a spectacular fashion. The fact no one is talking about rules changes for necrons despite some people having had hands on time with CA 2018, pretty much shows GW ignored us again, tossed a token points reduction, and kicked the can down the road. The most frustrating part is GW doesn't seem to understand how they screwed up, and being outside of the current narrative focus, won't take the time to understand the problem much less fix it.

I know; it was supposed to be a laughably ineffective 'fix' that did not actually address anything. Considering your assessment I think I got that spot on

 Grimgold wrote:
so since people are getting some face time with ca 2018, I'm hoping to hear what changes are in store for Necrons.

Have people actually gotten to read it yet, or was it just the seminar and Q&A today?

I didnt had any hopes whatsoever. When the first rumor is a nerf I dont think the rest is of any significance. (EDIT: talking about Necrons)

The 3CP strat is a joke obviously...especially if it REALLY locks RP for this unit

 Arachnofiend wrote:
The new Sisters stratagem seems oddly niche, doesn't it? You have to build your squads in a very specific and kinda counter-intuitive way, and as a reward you get the same benefit as the far more flexible Veterans of the Long War. I get what they were going for but I think you'd need more incentive to include an anti-infantry and anti-vehicle special weapon in the same unit.

If by niche you mean essentially both unusable and not worth a CP, then yes. Sisters Strats not looking good so far.

 Creeping Dementia wrote:

 Arachnofiend wrote:
The new Sisters stratagem seems oddly niche, doesn't it? You have to build your squads in a very specific and kinda counter-intuitive way, and as a reward you get the same benefit as the far more flexible Veterans of the Long War. I get what they were going for but I think you'd need more incentive to include an anti-infantry and anti-vehicle special weapon in the same unit.

If by niche you mean essentially both unusable and not worth a CP, then yes. Sisters Strats not looking good so far.

Yes, that is essentially what I meant. I like the idea of a strat that asks you to use the holy trinity, but obviously the benefit needs to be much stronger than a similar strat of the same cost with no restrictions.

From what I've heard from Games Workshop and a couple of the playtesters that they use for testing changes, they feel that Necrons are already in a decent spot. I wouldn't expect any particularly substantial changes in Chapter Approved. Certainly not a change in rules or mechanics.

Darsath wrote:
From what I've heard from Games Workshop and a couple of the playtesters that they use for testing changes, they feel that Necrons are already in a decent spot. I wouldn't expect any particularly substantial changes in Chapter Approved. Certainly not a change in rules or mechanics.

That is actually extremely embarrassing. We're the worst major faction in the game by a long shot, our performance is comparable to the Grey Knights they felt they needed to specifically call out as getting buffed in Chapter Approved.

I wonder how that stratagem for sisters made it through "play testing". Did they say "Yup, +1 to wound within 8" seems useful" and sent it to the printers? It's mind bogglingly bad and unusable.

Darsath wrote:
From what I've heard from Games Workshop and a couple of the playtesters that they use for testing changes, they feel that Necrons are already in a decent spot. I wouldn't expect any particularly substantial changes in Chapter Approved. Certainly not a change in rules or mechanics.

Hmmm...I dont know...they are a dead faction (no pun here) right now I dont know how they can have such an opinion if its true...

Darsath wrote:
From what I've heard from Games Workshop and a couple of the playtesters that they use for testing changes, they feel that Necrons are already in a decent spot. I wouldn't expect any particularly substantial changes in Chapter Approved. Certainly not a change in rules or mechanics.

Any source on that? Did you chat with GW reps at the event, because I'd be concerned if they were actually that out of touch with the game.

 Kirasu wrote:
I wonder how that stratagem for sisters made it through "play testing". Did they say "Yup, +1 to wound within 8" seems useful" and sent it to the printers? It's mind bogglingly bad and unusable.

it is so unbelievably convoluted lol. at least it is a beta!

 Kirasu wrote:
I wonder how that stratagem for sisters made it through "play testing". Did they say "Yup, +1 to wound within 8" seems useful" and sent it to the printers? It's mind bogglingly bad and unusable.

You're assuming Sisters won't be land locked into a VERY specific load out. And judging by the new war gear load out on minis and codex options, Sisters might just have to take bolter flamer melta whether they like it or not.

 Arachnofiend wrote:

Darsath wrote:
From what I've heard from Games Workshop and a couple of the playtesters that they use for testing changes, they feel that Necrons are already in a decent spot. I wouldn't expect any particularly substantial changes in Chapter Approved. Certainly not a change in rules or mechanics.

That is actually extremely embarrassing. We're the worst major faction in the game by a long shot, our performance is comparable to the Grey Knights they felt they needed to specifically call out as getting buffed in Chapter Approved.

I thought pure Admech were the worst.

I honestly don't follow rankings much lately, but I thought they were having almost no showing in tournaments.

If GW really cared about their game, they would simply do monthly/bi-monthy updates in PDF form for points for free. Much like PC games. No reason why balancing should take an eternity in the modern age.

The Sisters' kit vis a vi weapons is already limited in a very restricted fashion. It is no shock that a strategem in the nature of the Holy Trinity exists. It just needs a bump in effectiveness. +1 to wound is fine. What else would it need? +1 to hit? +1 to wound, re-rolling wounds?